Joby Motors Santa Cruz, CA

Electric Motors and Controllers
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liveforphysics   100 GW

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Re: Joby Motors Santa Cruz, CA

Post by liveforphysics » Oct 07 2011 1:55am

comradegerry wrote:Bugger! They quietly slipped out of buissness taking nearly $900 of my hard earned with them. I guess I am not likely to see a motor in the post any time soon. It looked too good to be true. Thank God I still have the Astro!

I had some of the freshly out-of-work engineering team over. They are keeping the production part open long enough to fill orders that exist, so if you had an order in, you should be set. They just completely stopped development and can'd the whole engineering team, but Joby isn't going to rip you off if you paid them money.

When you buy a Joby at $900, you get a motor that costs about $3,500usd to make. lol
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Re: Joby Motors Santa Cruz, CA

Post by comradegerry » Oct 07 2011 2:37am

Well that is good news that they are finishing off the orders taken. Not so good news that what appears to be a high end motor manufacturer is going to the wall when unemployment is high and quality scarce and happily sacrificed for cost by the masses. Thank you for the insight and reassurance. It is no wonder they are going to the wall though if the motors cost more to make than they can sell, that is not a good buissness model for anybody. :(

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Re: Joby Motors Santa Cruz, CA

Post by liveforphysics » Oct 07 2011 2:55am

comradegerry wrote:Well that is good news that they are finishing off the orders taken. Not so good news that what appears to be a high end motor manufacturer is going to the wall when unemployment is high and quality scarce and happily sacrificed for cost by the masses. Thank you for the insight and reassurance. It is no wonder they are going to the wall though if the motors cost more to make than they can sell, that is not a good buissness model for anybody. :(

I think they were testing the market out at a price that would be representative of what the motors would cost once they became fully tooled-up for mass-production. However, that never happened, so what you got to buy was hand-made extremely expensive and labor intensive to make proto-types.

And still hardly anyone bought them...
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Re: Joby Motors Santa Cruz, CA

Post by Erogo » Oct 07 2011 4:10am

That sucks eh. We're all (ok 99% of all) shopping by cost, buying the cheapest we can find, bleating when the $60 WangFo motor that some kid put together at 2am working for a dollar a day doesn't have it's windings tied down tight, and uses an economy grade bearing.

Who was it said: "Noone ever regretted buying quality"? I mean - how do they know? No-ones ever done it!

Reminiscent of Ayn Rand eh.

Eric
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Re: Joby Motors Santa Cruz, CA

Post by CNCAddict » Oct 07 2011 8:07pm

Called Joby up and was told "joby motors" isn't out of business but "joby energy" is. They said motors would continue to be sold. The plot thickens?!

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Re: Joby Motors Santa Cruz, CA

Post by liveforphysics » Oct 07 2011 8:29pm

CNCAddict wrote:Called Joby up and was told "joby motors" isn't out of business but "joby energy" is. They said motors would continue to be sold. The plot thickens?!
That's right. Canned the whole engineering team, but left enough crew to assemble the motor orders.
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Re: Joby Motors Santa Cruz, CA

Post by CNCAddict » Oct 07 2011 9:13pm

WOW, so they will continue to make and sell motors..but no new developments? Very strange :?

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Re: Joby Motors Santa Cruz, CA

Post by liveforphysics » Oct 07 2011 9:43pm

CNCAddict wrote:WOW, so they will continue to make and sell motors..but no new developments? Very strange :?

If you think that is strange, they sell the motors at a huge loss, and going into the program, Ben knew he would never come close to paying off engineering costs on the venture, no matter what happened.
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Re: Joby Motors Santa Cruz, CA

Post by RWP » Oct 08 2011 1:51am

Oct 8, 2011, at 8:18 AM
Hi Roy,
Yes the JM2 will still be available. We are working on a controller but it may be a while before it is ready.
Best Regard,
JoeBen

On Oct 8, 2011, at 12:44 AM, Roy Prince wrote:
> Hi JoeBen,
> Good to hear this - looks like really great motors.
> Is the JM2 motor be available?
> Is there going to be a controller for these motors in the near future?
> Thanks so much for your quick response,
> Roy

Oct 7, 2011, at 9:19 PM
Hi Roy,
Both are still available and we plan to continue to produce them.
Best Regards,
JoeBen

On Oct 7, 2011, at 4:36 PM, Roy wrote:
> Are any of the JM1 or JM2 motors still available?
> I was sorry to hear that these motors will not be available in the future!
> Thanks,
> Roy

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Re: Joby Motors Santa Cruz, CA

Post by comradegerry » Oct 27 2011 9:21am

I received an email from JoeBen this week just updating me that my JM1 will probably ship next week. :D

I look forard to trying to integrate that into a lively ebike..... Anybody know if a Lyen controller would work or do they require something a bit different?

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Re: Joby Motors Santa Cruz, CA

Post by Thud » Oct 27 2011 1:45pm

I read an article last night that had a guy using twin Joby's doing demonstraightion flights in his ultralight..He was using a Jetti-spin controllers.

Given the hight pole count, A sensorless controller may be the only way to realise the true power potential in one of these...but fiting halls & using a standard controller should be doable....its a matter of determinging the inductance & sizing a controller for the job.

A stock kelly would be a bad choice with its low ellectrical rpm. The xiechan (lyen) 24fet may work as they seem to have a high E-rpm potential (i can spin 7 pole motors past 13k with them) but i really don't know where their limit is.

I really want to see some work with one one though. Good luck & lets see it when its delivered.
get some......

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Re: Joby Motors Santa Cruz, CA

Post by regmeister » Oct 27 2011 2:03pm

I read an article last night that had a guy using twin Joby's doing demonstraightion flights in his ultralight..He was using a Jetti-spin controllers.
that article is here
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1412424

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Re: Joby Motors Santa Cruz, CA

Post by RWP » Oct 27 2011 2:37pm

regmeister wrote:
I read an article last night that had a guy using twin Joby's doing demonstraightion flights in his ultralight..He was using a Jetti-spin controllers.
that article is here
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1412424
Here is the first mention of the Joby Motor in the above thread:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthre ... 424&page=8

He gets his Joby here:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthre ... 24&page=12

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Re: Joby Motors Santa Cruz, CA

Post by liveforphysics » Oct 27 2011 3:30pm

Thud wrote:I read an article last night that had a guy using twin Joby's doing demonstraightion flights in his ultralight..He was using a Jetti-spin controllers.

Given the hight pole count, A sensorless controller may be the only way to realise the true power potential in one of these...but fiting halls & using a standard controller should be doable....its a matter of determinging the inductance & sizing a controller for the job.

A stock kelly would be a bad choice with its low ellectrical rpm. The xiechan (lyen) 24fet may work as they seem to have a high E-rpm potential (i can spin 7 pole motors past 13k with them) but i really don't know where their limit is.

I really want to see some work with one one though. Good luck & lets see it when its delivered.

I don't know if you missed me thread about it Thud, but we put sensors in a Joby and spun it with the fastest firmware Kelly and a Sevcon. Neither could get it to even half RPM. :-(
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

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Re: Joby Motors Santa Cruz, CA

Post by RWP » Oct 27 2011 5:00pm

liveforphysics wrote:...we put sensors in a Joby and spun it with the fastest firmware Kelly and a Sevcon. Neither could get it to even half RPM. :-(
My ignorance is sticking out all over here...What's involved in correcting this?
Is it a complicated thing to mod Kelly or Sevcon firmware to correct this? Probably proprietary and not easy to reverse engineer...

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Re: Joby Motors Santa Cruz, CA

Post by RWP » Oct 27 2011 5:03pm

Anybody know anything about these?:
Jeti Spin 300 Opto -- http://www.electricwingman.com/jeti-spi ... oller.aspx

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Re: Joby Motors Santa Cruz, CA

Post by Thud » Oct 28 2011 3:11pm

I don't know if you missed me thread about it Thud, but we put sensors in a Joby and spun it with the fastest firmware Kelly and a Sevcon. Neither could get it to even half RPM.
i followed the Joby thread but missed any data addressing issues with the controllers....sucks to hear anyway.
I doubt the Kelly firmware is upgradeble beyond their offerings....I'll let the overclockers on the board sound off on that.
& i don't know enough about the sevcons to even offer a guess...

I just know the Joby's are drop dead sexy! :mrgreen:
& i need to send Nieles a paypal to get the RC current limiters into production & soon.....an HV160 should spin this monster as well as anything & a proper current limiter would make it work longer than 18 seconds on an e-bike.

regarding the Jeti-spin...they are respected controllers in the rc circles.....but I am looking at the High voltage FighterCat controllers...they are working on a 24cell capable unit that would be nice for some really goofy playtime....(once solving the startup syncing issuse...which Castle seems to have coverd perfectly on their controllers)
get some......

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Re: Joby Motors Santa Cruz, CA

Post by etard » Oct 29 2011 11:28pm

Thud
the startup syncing issuse
It's called pedals, LOL!

Seriously though, I can see problems putting sensorless on motorcycles, but if AJ can run a sensorless controller, anybody can. Thud, I think you are about even on the fried controller count between sensor/ sensorless, bite the bullet and give sensorless another chance. IF only Castle would come out with a true HV system, it would be on like donky kong!
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Re: Joby Motors Santa Cruz, CA

Post by comradegerry » Nov 17 2011 9:38am

Christmas came a little early this year but it is the only item I had on Santas list!

Compact and reasonably light, once my current bike build is done, this thing of beauty will be going into my next Greyborg frame :D It will be a while before it happens but it will happen.

I did not get a spec sheet with it but I don't really care, just chuffed it arrived. It is roughly 6" diameter and 2" wide, weight is 1915 grams.
Jobe Front.jpg
Jobe Front.jpg (111.98 KiB) Viewed 1880 times
,
Jobe rear.jpg
Jobe rear.jpg (115.15 KiB) Viewed 1880 times

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Re: Joby Motors Santa Cruz, CA

Post by markobetti » Nov 17 2011 3:39pm

comradegerry wrote:Christmas came a little early this year but it is the only item I had on Santas list!

Compact and reasonably light, once my current bike build is done, this thing of beauty will be going into my next Greyborg frame :D It will be a while before it happens but it will happen.

I did not get a spec sheet with it but I don't really care, just chuffed it arrived. It is roughly 6" diameter and 2" wide, weight is 1915 grams.
Jobe Front.jpg
,
Jobe rear.jpg
PURE SEX.....

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Re: Joby Motors Santa Cruz, CA

Post by Lock » Nov 17 2011 4:15pm

Sure, but he's still going to need sex aids... what controller???

Lock
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Re: Joby Motors Santa Cruz, CA

Post by markobetti » Nov 17 2011 4:31pm

:)) You are right Lock......i think soon we will see an explosion of different concepts for controlling bldc motors as the ev world is going up ...

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Re: Joby Motors Santa Cruz, CA

Post by comradegerry » Nov 18 2011 2:11am

For the controller I was hoping to use something high end from Lyen, running 48v unless something better turns up in the meantime. I will be pedaling to start so hopefully the synch issues will be acceptable. Time will tell. I will be trying to mate a couple of Matex planetary gears on the side of the motor as Dogati was doing earlier in his awesome build, pure inspiration. That would be the ideal if I can keep the unit between the cranks at 4" wide and running through the cranks to a Rohlhoff on the rear..... I need to start saving again. The bigger motors on their website look like they would be ideal for an electric trial bike type of thing based on a 175cc type donor frame or similar, a proper DOT Emotorbike.

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Re: Joby Motors Santa Cruz, CA

Post by joeben » Dec 08 2011 1:34am

toolman2 wrote:they seem to be some of the finest motors around,
just looking at the specs here http://www.jobymotors.com/public/views/pages/jm1s.php

the graph of idle power is interesting, (and shows very similar numbers to the ca120-70 also) but it doesnt quite add up to the over 95% efficiency shown in the other graphs, more like 90% ? -if you are losing 380w to idle (shown at 5500rpm), then peak efficiency would be found when the ir losses are the same -ie 760w total lost, if you then make 7.6kw then its 90% efficient? am i missing anything here?

sounds fair to use 380w to eddy losses etc at 5500rpm for a motor of this diameter, it may even have some real good magnetic materials too,
i read somewhere that so far they claim upward of 90% and are working on 95%.
Thank you so much to everyone for your encouragement and support!
I have been getting back to work on motor testing as well as some new motor designs. We now have a new test stand well calibrated and we tested a JM1S-3TD with the and a JM1S-4TD. The efficiencies shown in the screenshot attached include motor and controller losses. 2.5-4% of the losses are in the controller and the remainder are in the motor. Thus in this torque and speed range the JM1S is running at an efficiency of 90-95%. JM1S-3TD at 50V 6500rpm and 8-10kW is a sweet spot. JM1S-4TD at 50V 5000rpm and 6-8kW seems like a sweet spot. 12-13 Nm is a happy spot for this motor. Notice the 4.4% drop in efficiency at 4400rpm going from the 34x10 to the 37x13 prop (8.9 to 17.7Nm).

I will work on getting a blog up to post more data to. We are working on some motor controllers but it may be a while before they are ready for production.

Thank you again! JoeBen
JM1S-3TD and JM1S-4TD Efficiency.png
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Re: Joby Motors Santa Cruz, CA

Post by joeben » Dec 08 2011 1:40am

F4P wrote:Hi,

i have a gernal question about Joby Motors. What's there communication strategie? I'm realy interested in one of the motors. I tried to get some detailed information like a parameter matrix. I contact them with my official company adress (which should normaly get attention) and later on with my private adress, giving no interference about my origin, getting no answer either...so what's there problem? On the sheets finest motor on market, but the company ... which is the complete opposide than in the thread?!?

Does anyone own one of these motors?

thanks so far

Flo
Hi Flo,
I am very sorry that I have been tied up with my other businesses. I now have some time to work on motors again. Please call me a +1 650 533 6335 or email me at joeben(at)jobymotors.com if you still have interest in a motor.
Best Regards,
JoeBen

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