Lebowski's motor controller IC, schematic & setup, new v2.A1

Electric Motors and Controllers

Re: Lebowski's motor controller IC, schematic & setup, new v

Postby Tomdb » Fri May 26, 2017 1:53 pm

Got something really weird happening.
4 months a go I was super happy to finally have the controller working.


Come back to it a month or two ago, for some reason the IC was broken.

Ordered some new ones and built the setup in my garage, now it does not want to spin properly. and again shows overflow on the FOC calc a few times.

With this setup it wont even spin up propperly. Can anyone have a quick look for something completely off, ran through the setup and auto completing most of it. Will probably look at purchasing an known working board to figure out if I have a big mistake in my board or there are other issues?

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Re: Lebowski's motor controller IC, schematic & setup, new v

Postby kywalda » Fri May 26, 2017 2:09 pm

Arlo1 wrote:Or just set the battery regen amps to something the fuse and battery can handle?

There is no reason to need to set it really high... Maybe the current sensors are not set properly?


This is what I had before. But there was a kind of "rumpling-speed". With regen battery current of 80A is was between 25 and 35 km/h. Above and below that speed there was a constant "negativ torque". But in this speed area the controller detected an over current and switched off regen for some millis and then on again and again. This feels like "rumpling".
When I decreased the current setting this "rumpling speed" also decreased to 15 to 25 km/h. So I tried to increase the current. At 300A it was beyond the speed I could reach with this motor.

Maybe it is only wrongly marked in the setup menu. That "regen battery current" in reality is "regen phase current"...
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Re: Lebowski's motor controller IC, schematic & setup, new v

Postby Tomdb » Fri May 26, 2017 2:44 pm

I just noticed that the first schematic dictates a rough estimation for the RC filter for the current sensors,

My current setup is 1k resistor and 10nf cap

However im just running 4K Hz pwm so I would need to be at a 4K resistor instead of a 1K, would this make a big difference?

Tomorrow I will strip the wiring out and solder all my connections, except the pcb ones to ensure those are not causing any issues.
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Re: Lebowski's motor controller IC, schematic & setup, new v

Postby Arlo1 » Fri May 26, 2017 2:54 pm

Tomdb wrote:I just noticed that the first schematic dictates a rough estimation for the RC filter for the current sensors,

My current setup is 1k resistor and 10nf cap

However im just running 4K Hz pwm so I would need to be at a 4K resistor instead of a 1K, would this make a big difference?

Tomorrow I will strip the wiring out and solder all my connections, except the pcb ones to ensure those are not causing any issues.

The math for the current delay is based on the comutation frequency not the PWM frequency. I would keep the 1000ohm resistors.
My Leaf motor controller build. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 27#p963227
My YSR build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRo8r5g4NBg
RC and most types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages charging and discharging.
Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
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Re: Lebowski's motor controller IC, schematic & setup, new v

Postby Tomdb » Fri May 26, 2017 4:01 pm

So my setup with 1K R and 10nF resistor is fine.

Will keep debugging my setup.
If all else fails I will have a play with the Rinehart PM150DX I got laying around
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Re: Lebowski's motor controller IC, schematic & setup, new v

Postby Arlo1 » Sat May 27, 2017 2:13 am

I use 1000ohm resistors and 10nf on the current sensors.

The less of the dampening the better for timing. The RC filter causes a delay in the current sensor info which will cause the timing to retard a bit.
This will increase as your erpms increase. But you need a bit of a filter to get rid of some of the noise.

If you have problems start with the basics.. Do your PWM test mode with no power on the DC buss and work back up to a running system.

Also make sure the current sensors are calibrated properly as I find mine runs much better when I do.

Keep an eye on the voltage at the brain. I had about 5 resistors fail on the input to the brain (was using a 10 ohm) now I just soldered it to get rid of the resistor failures. The brain will measure 5v when you check it powered up but it drops when you try to run a motor which can cause a brownout.
My Leaf motor controller build. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 27#p963227
My YSR build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRo8r5g4NBg
RC and most types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages charging and discharging.
Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
HI power controller design. Game Changer
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Re: Lebowski's motor controller IC, schematic & setup, new v

Postby Lebowski » Sat May 27, 2017 2:38 am

Tomdb wrote:Got something really weird happening.
4 months a go I was super happy to finally have the controller working.


Come back to it a month or two ago, for some reason the IC was broken.

Ordered some new ones and built the setup in my garage, now it does not want to spin properly. and again shows overflow on the FOC calc a few times.

With this setup it wont even spin up propperly. Can anyone have a quick look for something completely off, ran through the setup and auto completing most of it. Will probably look at purchasing an known working board to figure out if I have a big mistake in my board or there are other issues?

Code: Select all
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Just looking at the hex, the phase current is set for only 20 A ? With 2.8mV/A sensors that only a few LSB's of the ADC...
You need to enter more realistic numbers in the erpm menu (especially regen ramp). Also I would to 1000 and 1500 for the
transition erpms, 800 and 1000 is a bit close together. the FOC measurement current is way too low for your current sensors.
(10A is only 4 lsb's of the ADC).

What I would do, in the main menu give '!', reset and do all menu's again but with reasonable current numbers everywhere.
Last edited by Lebowski on Sat May 27, 2017 2:39 am, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
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Re: Lebowski's motor controller IC, schematic & setup, new v

Postby Tomdb » Sat May 27, 2017 3:01 am

Thanks Lebowski, I will give that a try.

Need to figure out what changed to make it all of a sudden not work because I need a reliable solution. So to reset all values you enter "1" is that one of the many secrets this chip has? :)
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Re: Lebowski's motor controller IC, schematic & setup, new v

Postby Lebowski » Sat May 27, 2017 3:05 am

Tomdb wrote:Thanks Lebowski, I will give that a try.

Need to figure out what changed to make it all of a sudden not work because I need a reliable solution. So to reset all values you enter "1" is that one of the many secrets this chip has? :)


It is not a 1 but an exclamation mark. This is the normal way to trigger an update. Before it updates it wipes the complete settings memory, so it is a way to start with a clean slate. After '!' a reset will terminate the update and bring it back to normal funtional mode, but with the settings menu wiped.
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Re: Lebowski's motor controller IC, schematic & setup, new v

Postby Arlo1 » Sat May 27, 2017 5:48 am

Tomdb wrote:Thanks Lebowski, I will give that a try.

Need to figure out what changed to make it all of a sudden not work because I need a reliable solution.

If your current sensors are 2.8mv/a you will find the magnetic hysteresis of the sensors them selves might be a few amps so only having a current limit of 20 amps is way to low. Mine wont even run until I set it for 100amps + and my current sensors are 950a sensors.

You need to set the phase amps to a realistic number then do all the auto completes. When I auto complete the current menu after setting the phase amps to 100-200 amps then current sensor calibration and FOC calibration will see this and do the calibrations at a current related to the limits of the current menu. I set mine up that way to get a good current sensor calibration then I do the FOC at the most current the chip will measure the inductance at and save it and go back and set the current to what I plan to run (750 amps+) then I auto complete everything again but I don't bother with the current sensor calibration because it seems to be less reliable at higher currents.

Either way when I run the motor even with the wheels in the air I need to set at least 100 phase amps.
My Leaf motor controller build. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 27#p963227
My YSR build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRo8r5g4NBg
RC and most types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages charging and discharging.
Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
HI power controller design. Game Changer
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Re: Lebowski's motor controller IC, schematic & setup, new v

Postby Tomdb » Sat May 27, 2017 7:04 am

Lebowski and Arlo1,

thank you for this kind advise. I could have also realized this myself since I have been busy building a BMS with current shunt. But as I did not write the software I had no clue on wat size of ADC we are running. :roll: (weak excuse :D )

She spins real good once in mode 3, need to fine tune the start. So now again at a point where without a proper vehicle or load bench little testing can be done.

If you want to have a look at the settings that made her spin see below.
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0x0A0A   0x09A9   0x094F   0x08FB   0x08AD   0x0864   0x0820   *


quick youtube video
Last edited by Tomdb on Sat May 27, 2017 7:27 am, edited 2 times in total. View post history.
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Re: Lebowski's motor controller IC, schematic & setup, new v

Postby Volttan » Wed May 31, 2017 6:26 am

2.91 works on these settings almost perfectly, it only needs a little help at startup. He can only break the synchronization when the throttle is opened quickly


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0x08AD  0x0864  0x0820  *                                                   


2.93 is set alike, but here I have a lot of problems with the start, as already stated, you have to gently operate with the throttle. The motor is spinning and suddenly stops at a battery current of about 8A


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Re: Lebowski's motor controller IC, schematic & setup, new v

Postby Lebowski » Wed May 31, 2017 10:41 am

Hi Volttan,

Had a looks at the hex files. In 2.93 the recovery menu is not filled out (not autocompleted) . Also in the erpms menu you should enter a small number for 'accept reverse below' and give reasonable numbers for the regen ramping (like 500, 800). Finally I recommend you to set the transition erpms higher (now you have 100 and 500) to 600 and 1000...
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Re: Lebowski's motor controller IC, schematic & setup, new v

Postby Volttan » Thu Jun 01, 2017 4:17 am

Lebowski wrote:Hi Volttan,

Had a looks at the hex files. In 2.93 the recovery menu is not filled out (not autocompleted) . Also in the erpms menu you should enter a small number for 'accept reverse below' and give reasonable numbers for the regen ramping (like 500, 800). Finally I recommend you to set the transition erpms higher (now you have 100 and 500) to 600 and 1000...



Hi

I set as you suggested, unfortunately no change.
I think there is something wrong with the current measurement, just why it works much better on 2.91, board is the same i just replaced the chip

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Last edited by Volttan on Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
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Re: Lebowski's motor controller IC, schematic & setup, new v

Postby izeman » Thu Jun 01, 2017 6:59 am

Volttan wrote:... just why it works much better on 2.91 chip is the same i just replaced the chip

you are replacing chips? you can up/downgrade the firmware. no need for several chips. or am i misunderstanding something here?
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Re: Lebowski's motor controller IC, schematic & setup, new v

Postby Arlo1 » Wed Jun 28, 2017 12:03 am

New code coming guys is REALLY awesome!

All my problems are solved....
My Leaf motor controller build. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 27#p963227
My YSR build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRo8r5g4NBg
RC and most types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages charging and discharging.
Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
HI power controller design. Game Changer
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Re: Lebowski's motor controller IC, schematic & setup, new v

Postby Altair » Wed Jun 28, 2017 7:41 am

WHOO HOOO !
Impressive to see this.
Thanks for the update, Arlo.
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Re: Lebowski's motor controller IC, schematic & setup, new v

Postby Lebowski » Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:47 am

Just posted the toggle file for version 2.A0 . The changes:

- in the PWM menu, when you want to use the online L & R measurement, best to play with the pwm frequency until the autocompleted loop sample frequency is (just) below 25 kHz.

- even when you want to use the online R & L, you must run a FOC measurement (for the starting values for the online R and L). New is also that you can manually enter L and R values.

- the hall sensor menu has some new options:
Code: Select all
g) hall offset, forward: 0.00 deg
h) hall offset, reverse: 0.00 deg

0) reset hall statistics
#) display hall statistics

with g and h you can set the hall offset for forward and reverse... but what values to use ? The new transition method used actually knows the phase difference (between hall and sensorless) at the
moment of transition. It can runs statistics on these observed phase differences. Wit option 0) the statistical data gathering is reset. This needs to be (manually) done the first time the hall menu is used, and after every change of the hall offset (g and h). After the chip has seen a number of transitions option # can be used to display the statistics:
Code: Select all
 forward
count: 19
average: 4.07 deg
std-dev: 2.32 deg

 reverse
count: 16
average: -5.80 deg
std-dev: 2.62 deg

what it shows here is that it saw 19 transitions while in forward mode. The average error was 4.07 degrees, with a standard deviation of 2.32 degrees (ain't floating point nice :D ). To bring the average down to 0 it's value must be added to the corresponding offset value. After this the statistics needs to be reset as it will now start seeing a new set of different errors (as the offset was changed).
The standard deviation is a measure for how reliable the offset is. Large standard deviations can occur at high transition erpm under various levels of accelleration, in combination with (analog) delay in the hall sensors or at the input of the controller IC. If the values are large, try to lower the transition erpm and/or reduce the RC combination at the hall input pins.

new in this version is a first attempt at measuring the motor R and L while the motor is in normal use. The setup menu options are:
Code: Select all
a) use online Kv, L and R measurement: yes

 make sure f_sample is below 25kHz !

b) autocomplete
c) #data points for online impedance measurement: 16384
d) reset data collection
e) current data collection, R: 9.9 A
f) current data collection, L: 2.4 A
g) speed data collection: 5.98 k-erpm
h) inject extra current : yes

Options a) turns this new feature on or off, option b autocompletes the menu.

The measurement works by taking lots of measurement points and running statistics (it uses a minimum least square curve fitting method). Measurement points take a long time to process , at full speed it can take around 500 to 1000 point a second. A measurement point is only taken when:
- torque current is larger than option e)
- the 90-degree shifted torque current is larger than option f)
- motor speed is larger than option g)
- it must be in drive 3, but not in fieldweakening
- the data point cannot be too similar to already taken data points (meaning: at constand speed, torque etc it will maybe take 50 points and then wait for speed, torque etc to change)
Since the 90-degree shifted torque current is typically lower than option f) (except when changing throttle position, but even then it is not likely to exceed f), an extra bit of current to help with the measurement can be injected. This is turned on or off with option h). The RMS value for the injected current is as specified under f. The injection of the current should not be noticable. Power use should be negligible.

The amount of data points used for the R&L calculation is specified under c). Lower values make the R&L track faster but introduces more noise and make the values less reliable. The very first time it will take about 2000 point to initialise. After that the L&R as reported in the FOC menu and chip status menu will start changing, reflecting the measured values. Best is to run the motor under varying conditions for a few minutes until the R and L start changing, then press setup for the online save. This saves all the collected data point statistics, meaning next time you power up from cold it will not need to go through the 2000 initialisation points but it will start from the situation when the online save was done.

The status menu now includes the L and R values for debug purposes.

In the save menu, the 'online parameter save; option is no longer turned off automatically. This makes it easier to do hall statistics (which can only be viewed after they have been online-saved by pressing setup in motor mode)
Last edited by Lebowski on Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:56 am, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
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Re: Lebowski's motor controller IC, schematic & setup, new v

Postby Animalector » Fri Jun 30, 2017 4:13 pm

Great work. I love how your making it all smarter and automagic.

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Re: Lebowski's motor controller IC, schematic & setup, new v

Postby Volttan » Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:27 pm

Thanks Bas



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Re: Lebowski's motor controller IC, schematic & setup, new v

Postby Altair » Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:41 pm

Smoothness AND power!
Qualities that are usually mutually exclusive with I.C. engined bikes.
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Re: Lebowski's motor controller IC, schematic & setup, new v

Postby Arlo1 » Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:44 pm

Yup Lebowski has done some great work with this little dspic chip. Its helped many in the EV world make some very cool projects come to life!
My Leaf motor controller build. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 27#p963227
My YSR build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRo8r5g4NBg
RC and most types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages charging and discharging.
Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
HI power controller design. Game Changer
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Re: Lebowski's motor controller IC, schematic & setup, new v

Postby Lebowski » Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:02 pm

new manual for 2.A1 added. See the update file thread for the to
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