Greentime controllers

Electric Motors and Controllers
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crossbreak   100 MW

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Re: Greentime controllers

Post by crossbreak » Aug 14 2013 7:02am

thx for RX TX pinout. where did you get this info? I havnt found no pinout of the chip?

Have to wait till the weekend since i have to work... I have 64bit Win7 that's why it doesn't work

for the hieroglyphs... maybe we can try PantsOFF software to read teh fields and then translate them using google

sadly I can not install the language pack somehow :( anyway, here is the software.. password for the zip file is my username [Edit: File deleted, doesnt work this way]
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X8m06c.no_lang.JPG
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Last edited by crossbreak on Aug 14 2013 8:18am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Greentime controllers

Post by crossbreak » Aug 14 2013 8:09am

had to activate asian langugae support in windows, now it works fine... sadly PantsOff ouputs only question-marks :x

maybe we can use capture2text, there is a version that supports chinese http://capture2text.sourceforge.net/

This is what it MAY be... I wonder if "motor torque level" is the same as the phase current setting :? Maybe we should try on a test bench. If we can figure out that wiring i'm willing to test all those features. I'm open for donations to cover my expenses ;)
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translation XCM06-C.jpg
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Last edited by crossbreak on Aug 14 2013 9:59am, edited 1 time in total.

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crossbreak   100 MW

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Re: Greentime controllers

Post by crossbreak » Aug 14 2013 9:54am

if I connect just an FTDI USB adapter but no controller, the RX led on the FTDI RS232 converter blinks if I press "connect" in the flash software. Dont know where to select the COM port, seems it has auto detection. I tried two different FTDI adapters and they both have flashing RX led.

Still no clue how to connect "DTR, "CTS and 5V pin, or if there is any need for these.

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Re: Greentime controllers

Post by whatever » Aug 14 2013 12:33pm

I suspect Leo at greentime controllers will help with translation, if someone tells him we now have the software ( by the way well done to find that)
I'm pretty sure he will help

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Re: Greentime controllers

Post by amberwolf » Aug 14 2013 12:38pm

For the connections, are there any rows of holes that could be for programming? (most of the pics won't download due ot bandwidth on my wifi connection ATM)

On most of the controllers I've seen, it's been pretty easy to find the row of holes, usually near the MCU, that would be for the programming header, even if it's unmarked, and I suspect that the order of pins is the same for most (perhaps all) of them, regardless of "brand", just so the same equipment can be used to do it at the factory or vendor.

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Re: Greentime controllers

Post by whatever » Aug 14 2013 12:59pm

i sent leo an email to see if he will help with translation

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Re: Greentime controllers

Post by eugen » Aug 14 2013 2:35pm

whatever wrote:i sent leo an email to see if he will help with translation
omg
you can bet on that :roll:

if he want you to have program will give this out long time ago :!:

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eugen   100 mW

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Re: Greentime controllers

Post by eugen » Aug 14 2013 2:39pm

crossbreak wrote:had to activate asian langugae support in windows, now it works fine... sadly PantsOff ouputs only question-marks :x

maybe we can use capture2text, there is a version that supports chinese http://capture2text.sourceforge.net/

This is what it MAY be... I wonder if "motor torque level" is the same as the phase current setting :? Maybe we should try on a test bench. If we can figure out that wiring i'm willing to test all those features. I'm open for donations to cover my expenses ;)
great job
ill test this translator asap
i

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crossbreak   100 MW

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Re: Greentime controllers

Post by crossbreak » Aug 14 2013 5:23pm

Leo... i get the feeling he does not understand how to use the program himself...I ordered a controller with 0 seconds soft start, got one with 2 seconds :x
Asked him for phase current of 120amps/85amps bat current max.... he did that in fact, feels like 120amps, but I can't really measure since my probe does no real RMS measurement. Hope I can read the values of this controller to see his settings. I'll buy one of those chips for RMS measurements Amberwolf suggested in the arduino thread (thx for that btw) for the test stand, if I cant do that using software

Leo knew where to download this software at all times... he wont help us. Now I now what he meant when he said "I can not program phase current" till i insisted, and he told " ok I cant set phase current exactly, but with a rule of thumb". He didnt tell exactly that, this is the conclusion.

Have to proceed with my test stand, then we will know more. I can even use Arduino for making a test run, using LabView software: http://www.ni.com/arduino

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Re: Greentime controllers

Post by eugen » Aug 14 2013 10:47pm

your capture program is doing well.it will take time but as i can see long time was no any progress here so now we are going ahead. :mrgreen:
attached what i start to translate. Now should translate this translation to English :lol: on going....
btw i talk owe Skype today with mister Leo and as i suspect-he is just a sale manager without technical skills so its not sense expect any help from him regarding this. Better start translations after we compare and made best translation version. :!:
Attachments
program translate.jpg
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crossbreak   100 MW

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Re: Greentime controllers

Post by crossbreak » Aug 15 2013 4:22am

great, but for me, translations is already done. Next thin is try and error to see what it really does.

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Re: Greentime controllers

Post by PeeHell » Aug 15 2013 11:56am

I see in the screenshot that there you have to specify the number of fets. Can we select 12, 18, 24, 36... fets ? Or is it limited to 12 ?

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Re: Greentime controllers

Post by flexy » Aug 15 2013 2:19pm

So which exact link didi you download?

I am looking at this page; Electric vehicle controller program
http://www.xcmmcu.com/Product.asp?BigCl ... 7%BD%B0%B8

The one called X8M06-C dual-mode high-power panel, looks similar to my 36fet board.

Edit; That looks more like the 24 fet.
72V Crooza scooter, converted to lifepo4 24AH 24S2P Headway, Lyen 18FET controller, 47mph
72V E-max 110S converted to lifepo4 A123 100AH 24S5P, Sabvoton 72150 controller, 49mph

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Re: Greentime controllers

Post by John in CR » Aug 15 2013 6:43pm

crossbreak wrote:... I wonder if "motor torque level" is the same as the phase current setting :? ...
Max torque % in the motor section has to be related to phase current, so once you guys get this figured out, it will be interesting to play with that field in conjunction with the current ramp up time called "soft start time", especially if they have numerous selections in the pull down box. If that's correct, then it gives us an extra bit of tuning beyond what the more expensive XieChang controller offers.

Reverse current or power is also nice, since I gotta do a trike at some point, and that will definitely be high power, so speed % alone won't be enough for reverse.

The different selection boxes related to low voltage have potential for nicer features than we are accustomed from cheap controllers.

High speed/low speed is an interesting setting. I wonder if my hubbies fall into the high classification due to their almost double Kv over common hubbies, or would that be more like RC motors. What might it change?...the PWM rate?

Are you able to tell the number of selections in the pull-downs? I'm most interested in the numbers for controller type, nominal voltage, battery current limit, low voltage boxes, and max torque.

I wish I could be of direct assistance in this effort. I did send a PM to Crossbreak regarding his donation request, but let me also put something on the table for everyone. The first person who gives me a cable with instructions to which wire goes where on those programming pins that I can connect to my PC running XP and change settings in these controllers will get a high efficiency 6 phase MidMonster motor shipped to their door. If it's by September 30, then I'll throw in some kind of added bonus, ventilation and weight loss mods or controllers or ???. Please don't let this impact the group effort though, and I'm open to changes in the offer that you guys think is fair for collaborative effort.

John

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eugen   100 mW

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Re: Greentime controllers

Post by eugen » Aug 15 2013 7:02pm

crossbreak wrote:great, but for me, translations is already done. Next thin is try and error to see what it really does.
OK i ad few more Google translations
this Help is i think pedal(pedal assist)

All together programming is much more powerful then others :D

Could you post your PCB from controller you have?
I have just some photos from internet and i wait my PCB to be delivered so i can try connect or better say found out how to connect :wink:
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program translate.jpg

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eugen   100 mW

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Re: Greentime controllers

Post by eugen » Aug 15 2013 8:22pm

24 fet pcb.jpg
24 fet pcb.jpg (90.36 KiB) Viewed 977 times
Now here are photo fo PCB 24 fet what is x8mo6-c

i don't know if is the same chip on 18 fet board?
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18 fet pcb.jpg
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Re: Greentime controllers

Post by Sancho's Horse » Aug 15 2013 8:55pm

I will see if my wife is willing to aid in translation.

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Re: Greentime controllers

Post by John in CR » Aug 15 2013 9:38pm

Something to note is that there are 2 types of electric braking with these controllers, one that charges the battery (regen) and one that doesn't but works down to a full stop (plug braking with energy dissipated in the windings and controller). Leo used the terminology EABS but always seemed confused about which is which, and that lead to me paying for and receiving controllers different than I wanted. To me both are Electronic Anti-lock Braking Systems. I bring it up, because in testing be sure to measure charging current if you think you have regen. The plug braking on does a short spike in reverse current.

As far as we know the 18fet board only does the plug braking type. As a user it actually works better than any regen I've ever experienced, mostly due to working down to 0 rpm. You gotta be careful though with a high power rig and not use it like a normal brake assist continuously all the way down from high speed. I blew a pair of 18's early on, not realizing it wasn't regen. I was doing my first go for it ride after a week of going easy, and grabbed a handful of both e-brakes continuously down from about 60mph to 5-10mph. As soon as I laid on the throttle after the turn pop-goes-the-weasel, and my big mistake is that test ride wasn't uphill, so I had a mile plus walk of shame pushing the bike slightly uphill against some shorted fets. :oops:

After that I used a pair for 9 months doing the majority of the braking effort for nearly 400lbs in motion from high speed by alternating between each. What always amazed me is that I didn't note a big temp difference in the controllers or motor when I used plug braking or if I ran only mechanical brakes. Those 18's are hearty beasts for the price. I ran the pair at 215A combined peak facing a moderately hard to drive 80uH phase-to-phase wound motor. My 24fet XieChangs get hotter even at lower peak current, and that's with much more surface area on the cases.

It's nice and smooth with what feels like a constant force down to zero. Regen otoh seems to cut off at a higher electrical rpm than XieChang controllers. Too bad someone hasn't wised up and done electric braking that is regen when the rpm supports efficient charging with a smooth transition to plug braking for force down to zero.

FWIW, I have 6, 15, 18, and 24 fet controllers from Greentime. If opening for pics is needed, just tell me what you guys need.

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Re: Greentime controllers

Post by PeeHell » Aug 15 2013 10:44pm

if you are ready to give it a try I think to programming pins are :
Pin 39 : E3 = TXD
Pin 38 : E2 = RXD

According to this documents and photos of the board
x8m06-c.pdf
(47.77 KiB) Downloaded 176 times

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Re: Greentime controllers

Post by John in CR » Aug 15 2013 10:59pm

PeeHell wrote:if you are ready to give it a try I think to programming pins are :
Pin 39 : E3 = TXD
Pin 38 : E2 = RXD

According to this documents and photos of the board
The attachment x8m06-c.pdf is no longer available
Doesn't what which pin does what vary? I've seen the upper left corner in your pdf, pins 9, 10, 11 handle the current sense from the shunt. Here's a pic of my 24fet, and the programming connections are clearly along the bottom.
Greentime 24fet board MCU.JPG
Greentime 24fet board MCU.JPG (44.61 KiB) Viewed 2921 times

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Re: Greentime controllers

Post by PeeHell » Aug 15 2013 11:11pm

Look for pads with 2k2 resistors on the line to the mcu

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Re: Greentime controllers

Post by johnjcbs » Aug 15 2013 11:23pm

Here's a pic of my new 18fet board,the pads have some sort of labels.
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X8M06-C 18FET.JPG
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Re: Greentime controllers

Post by eugen » Aug 16 2013 12:10am

John in CR wrote:Something to note is that there are 2 types of electric braking with these controllers, one that charges the battery (regen) and one that doesn't but works down to a full stop (plug braking with energy dissipated in the windings and controller). .............

It's nice and smooth with what feels like a constant force down to zero. Regen otoh seems to cut off at a higher electrical rpm than XieChang controllers. Too bad someone hasn't wised up and done electric braking that is regen when the rpm supports efficient charging with a smooth transition to plug braking for force down to zero.

FWIW, I have 6, 15, 18, and 24 fet controllers from Greentime. If opening for pics is needed, just tell me what you guys need.
please photo 6, 15, 18, and 24 fet controllers where are possible to clear see PCB from top and from bottom to see names(marks)of components- . I am trying to order PCB only from different vendors and only way is visual recognition of pcb . thank you in advance

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Re: Greentime controllers

Post by John in CR » Aug 16 2013 1:53am

eugen wrote:
John in CR wrote:Something to note is that there are 2 types of electric braking with these controllers, one that charges the battery (regen) and one that doesn't but works down to a full stop (plug braking with energy dissipated in the windings and controller). .............

It's nice and smooth with what feels like a constant force down to zero. Regen otoh seems to cut off at a higher electrical rpm than XieChang controllers. Too bad someone hasn't wised up and done electric braking that is regen when the rpm supports efficient charging with a smooth transition to plug braking for force down to zero.

FWIW, I have 6, 15, 18, and 24 fet controllers from Greentime. If opening for pics is needed, just tell me what you guys need.
please photo 6, 15, 18, and 24 fet controllers where are possible to clear see PCB from top and from bottom to see names(marks)of components- . I am trying to order PCB only from different vendors and only way is visual recognition of pcb . thank you in advance
I can't in good faith solicit Leo's help on one hand, so he get's more business, and turn around to help someone copy them. I can't imagine copying instead of buying with his low prices. I can see doing it with the high priced XieChang controllers, but not Greentime's. If you get boards from the other supplier, are you guaranteed functional programming software? I don't really like opening controllers, just like I don't like to open motors, but with guaranteed software, then I'm game. I've got at 36fet as well that was one of the early ones with the nice bus bars instead of wire soldered in traces, and some 12fet sine wave controllers too.

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Re: Greentime controllers

Post by crossbreak » Aug 16 2013 5:03am

do the sinewave controllers use the same X8M06-C?



6Fet BMSbattery KU63
Image


E2 and E3 appear on the 12Fet BMSbattery KU123 as pins 36 and 37. Same for the 15Fet Greentime. 3speed switch is connected to K1 and K2

6Fet:
Pins 38 and 39 are signed as "RX" and "TX on the back of the PCB, but connected to 3-speed switch. The pins 36 and 37 are left NC here, there is no E2 or E3, only E5 (pin 35)

12-fet-X8M06_complete.jpg
12-fet-X8M06_complete.jpg (122.51 KiB) Viewed 2874 times

the 9Fet looks the same as the 12Fet


15-Fet Greentime and 12Fet:
Attachments
6-fet-X8M06.jpg
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15-Fet-X8M06.jpg
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