Ariens 1.7 HP Lawnmower Motor = 4" Transmag 48V

Starting a new thread for this motor.

Here are pics
http://mrbill.homeip.net/albums/tm48/index.html
Mine is the same but it has slots for vents not holes
4-5 pounds
http://mrbill.homeip.net/albums/tm48/efficiency_curves/tm48_efficiency.pdf
I'm not sure how accurate his dyno is and he is measuring full system efficiency (controller, mechanical losses, etc)
not exactly sure it is the same motor
the shaft on my motor is not turned down and the shaft is only just long enough to get a thin sprocket on
my motor is 2900rpm at 48v
phase resistance of around .25 Ohms

The transmag site appears to have just gone down
http://www.transmag.com but you can see it up on internet archive

The magnets are screwed on which is nice for high rpm application

here is the wiring code I got
A - black - ground
B - red - +5V
C - green - hall A
D - yellow - hall B
E - brown - hall C
F - blue - Ov temp signal (digital, 0 or 5v, can remember)

Mr. Bill's site is great, totally forgot he had reviewed that transmag motor. I had actually emailed him a while back about a source for that motor but he didn't have any and some questions about his powertap hub dyno.

His dyno consists of a PowerTap hub in a wheel which give watts at about 1.5% accuracy and is limited to 2000w and just a cycle analyst for the input power. Those littler buggers are pricey.

Are you saying the transmag and the ariens are identical, except for the slotted vents?

Shaft Diamater?

Looks like a rewind could put a whole lot more copper in there for better effeciency

Here is where I've ordered my Ariends Motor From. No idea if it will actually show up, as they still have not sent me a shipping quote for Canada, or Charged my CC yet.

I was hoping it would have a threaded shaft for a lawn mower blade, doesnt seem to be the case.

RCPW.com
ARN 03729200MOTOR 1.7 HP 145.20
Shipping/Handling: $20.33
GRAND TOTAL: $165.53

drewjet said:

Shaft Diamater?

Click to expand...

I hope the mower version is not so puny...

TylerDurden said:

drewjet said:

Shaft Diamater?

Click to expand...

I hope the mower version is not so puny...

Click to expand...

It's super beefy with a ~17mm shaft cut for d-bore sprockets. The bearing is huge on the shaft side as you can see. Rewinding seems like a good idea but the space between the winding may work well with the fan cooling, and the wires are not super thin gauge. I hope to have it running soon on a on 24s NCM pack so we'll see if I can melt it.

Ive been sitting on the fence with this motor, just waiting to see how the 2000 watt MAC pans out.

To make live easy, adapting a blade or sprocket I suggest buying the adaptor as well, could save on machining cost.

Just a quick update

With my 24s pack at 96.7 V battery under load the motor draws 2.21 A (averaged over 1 minute to give a real world result using Fluke DMM inline, not innacurate current clamp) spinning at 9250-9300rpm 100% throttle
lucky the magnets are screwed on

The motor draws 1.0A at 5400rpm steady at 97.0 V battery, instantanous reading after using the motor unloaded for about 15 minutes with throttle regen slip mode slowing rotor quick

Not bad considering the built in fan takes some power to spin
sure sucks a lot of air
The air coming out the outlet is warm

The hall sensor combo listed above worked first try spinning clockwise
The motor would not run counterclockwise when I swapped two phase wires
Still stuttered when I swapped hall a and c
I didnt try all the combos but I would think just swapping a and c would have done the trick, no?
The motor must have timing advance to have relatively low no load current draw at 9300 rpm
Eddy currents seem be in check even though the lams arent super thin

Pretty much a cheap astro with a thick shaft

Looks good to me! Now how much amps can it handle... got pics?

you guys arent going to believe this...

so first off I switched off slip mode (throttle regen) in my modded lyen 6fet because with the motor spinning clockwise it seemed like I was bouncing off a rev limiter at start at ~7k rpm

this didnt fix the problem but the the no load full rpm was now down to 9000 rpm with a 94.0 V pack under load (dropped 0.6 V from rest) and the no load current jumped to 4.0 A from 2 A with slip mode on! Cant really explain it but I thought what the hell let me try and reverse the motor

I finally found swapping the halls A and B did the trick (not A and C as you would think, also swapped any two phase wires of course)

and the motor spinned up counterclockwise smooth all the way up to 8550 rpm steady(!) with a 0.23 A no load current (averaged over 30 second, reset average mode with motor at full rpm not at 0 rpm like a rookie) with a 94.2 V pack under load (dropped 0.4V from rest). I didn't believe it so I swapped directions twice and rechecked the numbers

Note I loaded the motor down with friction and it didn't stall in either direction (sometimes if the halls are miswired you get this strange mode where you get higher than normal rpm but the motor stalls with a slight load)

also the fan works in both directions equally well

now I got to mount up
REGULATORS!!!

bzhwindtalker said:

Looks good to me! Now how much amps can it handle... got pics?

Click to expand...

I'll do my best to melt it and find the limits

do not work on metal tables
note taped throttle and hi tek battery box and hoodie motor mount

hollow shaft with bolt threaded
black tape on bolt head to reduce reflectivity with little reflective sticker to measure rpm

Any updates

The company never billed my credit card, never sent me my motor. Anyone know the best place to order this that ships to Canada?

el_walto said:

The company never billed my credit card, never sent me my motor. Anyone know the best place to order this that ships to Canada?

Click to expand...

Look for on line, lawnmower part suppies houses, there are many you can try,

Can't find out where to buy these. They seem to be between the MAC/BMC 600W motors and the MAC/BMC 1000W motors, in terms of power output.

Would be interesting to see how they do at >90v. Bearings might not tolerate such a high RPM, if you're really gonna spin it up into the 9000's. I may have to replace mine on my "2000W" MAC before i go 72v as well ..

http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-ball-and-roller-bearings/=ixasb4

Motor sucks
Insulations sucks not high temp
Motor still run but phases connected to case
.5 mm laminations suck at high rpm
Eddy current losses propor to sqaure rpm
Might be ok for a scooter
Ran ok with 24s 6fet at 20amps
Melted after 5 min at 50a
You r square
Triangle
[youtube]05Io6lop3mk[/youtube]
Succk in
Then out

staton-inc.com has freewheel adapters for a 17mm shaft for $16 + shipping. 4mm or 5mm keyway.

http://www.staton-inc.com/store/pro...y_Adaptor_for_freewheel_sprocket-1115-27.html
http://www.staton-inc.com/store/pro..._threads_with_5mm_or_3_16_key_way-895-27.html

0.5mm is a big no-no for high rpm. That's a shame.

Even my MAC 2kW is rated for ~3000rpm operation on 48v, and it has ~0.33mm lams.
My Golden Motor BLT is rated for ~1000rpm operation on 48v and has 0.5mm lams.

So they really went cheap with this motor, 4 sure.

while I can't deny your results (coil short), flathill, I can see there are flaws in your logic (motor suckage).

Examining your logic -- does it surprise you, that a motor (obviously designed/built for a spec application {which happens to be 600W cont} . . . 1300pk =>"1.7HP" customer claim}), run around 4+ times the rated peak power, got hot enough to cause problems? I'm surprised it lasted 5 min.

(fyi, insulation is ~200C nylon 6/6, so if it didn't yield at a hard corner wrap, the 180C coil insulation wasn't far behind . . . provided the 135C magnets were still operational).

Given the conditions, you'd a been wise to use the temperature signal the motor provides on the blue wire.

Of course this motor isn't trying to be more than what is required by the OEM. Cheap is the goal, because consumers are cheap. Mission accomplished.

p.s. When run at spec: 48V, 2750r/m, 600W, this motor loses 18W in the core and 120W in the copper. If I pay twice as much for the core steel, I can reduce the core loss by 6W. Woopee. Laws of physics and economics still hold.
p.p.s When run at 96V, 50A (dc in), it loads down below 4kr/m anyway, with 24W core + 1400W !! copper heat --- same cheap steel.
p.p.p.s I guess good steel would help you when you're spinning over 8k on the bench with no-load. You could run at 0% efficiency for even longer.

I bought a 2009 Ariens Amp Rider mower a couple of weeks ago. It looks almost brand new and drives around fine. I have not been able to get the deck/blade motors working.

There are three wires into the controller besides the high current red and black. The orange is 48 volts when the key is on. The gray is 38 volts when the mow switch is on. The green has continuity to ground. I'm not elecrically sophisticated enough to be able to test the 3 AC wires of the Hall sensors.

I can't get circuit diagrammes fron either Ariens or Transmag ( too old ,poor sales etc. )

I don't want to spend $600 Cdn on a new controller unless I am sure that's the problem. Going to brushed motors , a contactor and a switch may be cheaper and easier. I converted an 1990 Ariens riding mower to battery electric 8 years ago and can handle a simpler circuit.

Does anybody have any advice ?