20mm thru axle grin tech and green motion geared motor 1500w

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bionicdan   1 kW

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20mm thru axle grin tech and green motion geared motor 1500w

Post by bionicdan » Aug 10 2014 1:15pm

On my monthly hunt for thru axle hub motors I found this one. I wonder if its just a bad translation or a scam and wondered if anyone had heard of "grin motors" or seen this motor. It says 20mm thru axle is an option although the picture shown doesnt look like one.

http://www.taiwantrade.com.tw/MAIN/en_f ... ome_soon=0
Image

Anyone tried these green motion motors below? 3kg and up to 1500w?
http://e-greenmotion.com/index.php?rout ... uct_id=112

Its like cute sized. I know you can put a million watts through any tiny motor for X amount of time but iv never seen such a tiny motor be shown as being able to go so high on the sales page.
Image
Last edited by bionicdan on Aug 10 2014 3:43pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 20mm thru axle grin tech and green motion geared motor 1

Post by Tench » Aug 10 2014 2:09pm

Having just made and fitted 8 new axles for different types of geared hub motors I really don't see how one could work with a through axle. The stator and clutch are keyed to the axle and the axle secured in torque arms. I would imagine their description does not mean you could fit it in a 20mm through axle fork. It must be a translation difference.
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Re: 20mm thru axle grin tech and green motion geared motor 1

Post by bionicdan » Aug 10 2014 3:38pm

Iv found a couple of thru axle motors but they are craaazy expensive due to being high end brands like
http://fitnesselectronicsblog.com/2012/ ... tric-bike/
Image

I guess low powered DD might be ok but yeah the twisting forces on a geared motor would need some funny bracing.

I even noticed this quick release one that could be made to fit my 12mm thru axle rear drop outs with an adaptor, but again I think it was lots of money
http://www.electricbikemag.co.uk/showSt ... orynum=224
Image

Iv run a rear 500w conhis fine on the front 20mm axle forks but would rather a rear motor. I am wearing through tires so fast lol
Last edited by bionicdan on Aug 10 2014 4:08pm, edited 1 time in total.
GEARS? Where we're going we dont need gears!

Due to metal plates and a body full of nuts and bolts I am as bionic as my bike. Mxus 4t 120v toshiba fets and 16ah 24s nanotech.

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Re: 20mm thru axle grin tech and green motion geared motor 1

Post by Russell » Aug 10 2014 3:56pm

bionicdan wrote:
Anyone tried these green motion motors below? 3kg and up to 1500w?
http://e-greenmotion.com/index.php?rout ... uct_id=112
One of the pictures of the geared motor at the GM website clearly shows it is MXUS motor. A little 3kg MXUS geared motor is unlikely to survive long at 1500W.

-R
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Re: 20mm thru axle grin tech and green motion geared motor 1

Post by bionicdan » Aug 10 2014 4:11pm

Russell wrote:
bionicdan wrote:
Anyone tried these green motion motors below? 3kg and up to 1500w?
http://e-greenmotion.com/index.php?rout ... uct_id=112
One of the pictures of the geared motor at the GM website clearly shows it is MXUS motor. A little 3kg MXUS geared motor is unlikely to survive long at 1500W.

-R
Hmm I only saw the ones that clearly showed "green motor" etched into it (I see it now but had initially just cycled through the first few pics). Shadey bunch of scammers it is then. Or sloppy with pictures
Last edited by bionicdan on Aug 10 2014 5:22pm, edited 1 time in total.
GEARS? Where we're going we dont need gears!

Due to metal plates and a body full of nuts and bolts I am as bionic as my bike. Mxus 4t 120v toshiba fets and 16ah 24s nanotech.

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Re: 20mm thru axle grin tech and green motion geared motor 1

Post by Russell » Aug 10 2014 4:32pm

bionicdan wrote:
Russell wrote:
bionicdan wrote:
Anyone tried these green motion motors below? 3kg and up to 1500w?
http://e-greenmotion.com/index.php?rout ... uct_id=112
One of the pictures of the geared motor at the GM website clearly shows it is MXUS motor. A little 3kg MXUS geared motor is unlikely to survive long at 1500W.

-R
Hmm I only saw the ones that clearly showed "green motor" etched into it. Shadey bunch of scammers it is then. Or sloppy with pictures
Lower left image shows a MXUS motor.

Many of the products on the site are the run-of-the-mill Chinese fare but they do have some interesting offerings too.

-R
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Re: 20mm thru axle grin tech and green motion geared motor 1

Post by bionicdan » Aug 10 2014 5:03pm

I actually looked up green motion due to this thing on ebay. Its all a bit golden motor mysteryness to me lol Massive specs and no real info
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/24V-60V-Brush ... 25906f706d

then found it on gm http://e-greenmotion.com/index.php?rout ... uct_id=175

Image

If I had a son he would definately be getting one of these on his first suspension bike lol Looks chunky
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Re: 20mm thru axle grin tech and green motion geared motor 1

Post by Bluefang » Aug 12 2014 6:43am

Why not essentially make your own thru axle motor. Get one of the motors where the wires exit in a channel next to the bearing rather then all the way thru the axle(http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/ebike-parts/m ... 3548r.html). Cut the axle at the desired width, assuming 150mm or something fairly beefy for a 12mm thru axle. Take said motor to a machinist or drill some M8 or what ever bolt size will fit, tap the hole and voila you have a semi thru axle that bolts from both sides. Use high tensile bolts and it will be more then fine. If you have enough left over thread on the inside use the nut that comes with the hub to lock it all in place.

You will definatly need some torque arms on the inside, but they can be chunks of steel clamped to the frame. For the type of axles mentioned you would be looking at a fairly heafty hub so it would handle the 1500w easily.
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Re: 20mm thru axle grin tech and green motion geared motor 1

Post by Ypedal » Aug 12 2014 7:27am

Grin Tech .. Aka : Ebikes.ca ! :wink: .. see Justin's sig !
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http://www.ypedal.com/ES/ES.htm
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Re: 20mm thru axle grin tech and green motion geared motor 1

Post by teklektik » Aug 12 2014 10:05am

The knockoff motor in the OP looks to be a clone of the new but as-yet-unreleased Grin Tech motor (see last year's Maker Faire post also solid axle version):
Motor Weight.jpg
Grin Tech Prototype
Motor Weight.jpg (23.85 KiB) Viewed 4745 times
grinMotorClone.png
Grin Clone
grinMotorClone.png (239.84 KiB) Viewed 4745 times
The post linked above is quite interesting. Of particular note:
Justin wrote:You can also see that the motor has a hollow aluminum axle. This is 20mm ID and allows the motor to be used with thru axle suspension forks, or with stub axles for supporting from a single side only. For normal forks, we just stick in a small insert to each end that makes it quick release compatible. And the hexagonal shape on the end of the axle is for an integrated torque arm. So there will be no spinout forces present on the fork dropouts.
Beyond the other obvious similarities, the novel hex end to the axle for an integrated TA is visible in both photos.

Looks like someone saw the prototypes, recognized the Engineering involved, and cloned it.
...although I guess nobody told these guys it's not too bright to sell it as a counterfeit if the original isn't for sale yet and no one knows what it is...

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Re: 20mm thru axle grin tech and green motion geared motor 1

Post by teklektik » Aug 12 2014 1:35pm

Hmmm...
Justin reports that photo is actually of his motor on his bike - not a copy.

The shot and description appear to be from something he most likely posted when he attended the Taipei trade show 2 years ago.

So - no clone - just another vaporware sales pitch from China using Justin's own material.....
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Re: 20mm thru axle grin tech and green motion geared motor 1

Post by gogo » Aug 12 2014 4:11pm

"A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking." -Steven Wright

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Re: 20mm thru axle grin tech and green motion geared motor 1

Post by bionicdan » Aug 15 2014 2:21pm

I knew it looked like a quality item. I have read the post by justin before but never put two and two together.

I could get something fabricated probably but I get really tired after my brain damage and havnt got the resources to do much thinking now. I like products I can buy and bolt on mostly now.

Thanks for identifying it :)
GEARS? Where we're going we dont need gears!

Due to metal plates and a body full of nuts and bolts I am as bionic as my bike. Mxus 4t 120v toshiba fets and 16ah 24s nanotech.

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Re: 20mm thru axle grin tech and green motion geared motor 1

Post by macribs » Sep 19 2016 2:04pm

Anyone knows when or if this motor will actually ever surface to the real world? Or will it stay a fairy tail like unicorns?
I think Justin early this fall said in a video their motor was ready for sale but I have yet to see the motor actually being put up for sale?

Vaporware or not what do you think?

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Re: 20mm thru axle grin tech and green motion geared motor 1

Post by Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh » Sep 19 2016 9:37pm

grin.ca homepage on May 15, 2016 4:57:06 PM PDT wrote:What about the Phaserunner, LiGo Batteries, and Thru-Axle Grin Motors?

Stay tuned for our next homepage updates for all of those exciting things coming out of Grin...
as you may or not be aware that was 4 updates ago.
but a pic is featured in the masthead at the top of their motors page, tho not listed as yet.
so very soon fingers crossed.
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Karl Gesslein wrote:Will Through-hole Axles Spell The End Of The Hub Motor As We Know It?

The trend towards through-hole axles is a disturbing one in the industry. Lets hope it fizzles out.
yeah, safer forks that don't twist as readily or dropouts that can't spread open, who the hell would want that? :pancake:

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Re: 20mm thru axle grin tech and green motion geared motor 1

Post by macribs » Sep 20 2016 1:08am

Yes I know about the pic, and I know about the promise to add it the next update. I've been waiting long for this :)
Reason for getting frustrated is that is about two years since I came across the first talk about this motor, and for the past 6 months it has seen like it will surface any day soon. And yet it has not.

If motor is in the pipeline well good, I can wait longer. But if motor is retracted for some reason that would be nice to know too.

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Re: 20mm thru axle grin tech and green motion geared motor 1

Post by madin88 » Oct 02 2016 9:26am

the motor already is listed in the shop:

http://www.ebikes.ca/product-info/all-a ... motor.html

the design, especially of the torquearm looks great
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Re: 20mm thru axle grin tech and green motion geared motor 1

Post by justin_le » Oct 05 2016 3:50pm

madin88 wrote:the design, especially of the torquearm looks great
Yeah, this one was of the last motor design details that took a long time for us to iron out. Since the all-axle motor allows for no torque transmission at all through the dropouts, then we're 100% dependent on the torque arm and wanted to make sure that there were multiple redundancies so that even if someone forgets to tighten bolts or whatever the axle will still be restrained against spinning out. In the end we came up with this solution of a splined interface on the axle itself with a number of threaded holes so that it can bolt solidly in place and we have both the bolts and the splines to transmit torque.
ThruAxleTorqueArm.jpg
ThruAxleTorqueArm.jpg (31.92 KiB) Viewed 3472 times
SplineMountCloseup.jpg
SplineMountCloseup.jpg (149.92 KiB) Viewed 3472 times
Even though the torque arm is made entirely of aluminum rather than steel, the larger contact diameter means that it can deal with very high torques before failure. The earlier prototypes were testing out in the 300-350 Nm range before breaking, while in the final design we are closer to 400 Nm which is a 4-5x safety factor over max peak motor torque.
TorqueArmTestJig.jpg
TorqueArmTestJig.jpg (122.78 KiB) Viewed 3472 times
FailedTorqueArm.jpg
FailedTorqueArm.jpg (44.51 KiB) Viewed 3472 times
That's from a torque arm that only weighs just over 50 grams.

What we are working out now is exactly how to make the interface between the torque arm and the fork blade, which as you know can vary in all kinds of diameters and contact angles. After exploring a number of CNC'd clamp designs we're now tending towards a more simple approach out of stainless steel sheet metal attached with 2 hose clamps and having a 'U' shaped bend in it to hold the end of the arm captive. Something like this:
TorqueArmInstalled20mm.jpg
TorqueArmInstalled20mm.jpg (107.75 KiB) Viewed 3472 times
You'd have a bolt going through the hole and pinching the parts together, but even if that bolt were to fall out the torque arm would still be restrained in place by the bent hook in the metal. And most enticing, you should be able to use a small quick release through the bolt hole and then just flip a lever and the torque arm should slide right out for taking the wheel off to fix a flat or whatever.
TorqueArmRemoval.jpg
TorqueArmRemoval.jpg (125.33 KiB) Viewed 3472 times
macribs wrote:Vaporware or not what do you think?
You can level a lot of things about our operation but purveyor of vaporware is definitely not one of them!
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Re: 20mm thru axle grin tech and green motion geared motor 1

Post by macribs » Oct 05 2016 5:03pm

Glad I was wrong Justin ;)

Look forward to see this motor up close and in my fork.

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Re: 20mm thru axle grin tech and green motion geared motor 1

Post by bionicdan » Oct 05 2016 5:03pm

How much are you charging to be the beta testers :) Although I think my rear axle is 12mm

Image
GEARS? Where we're going we dont need gears!

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Re: 20mm thru axle grin tech and green motion geared motor 1

Post by justin_le » Oct 05 2016 5:49pm

bionicdan wrote:How much are you charging to be the beta testers :) Although I think my rear axle is 12mm
It's only a front hub motor, so unless you have a thru-axle front suspension fork as well then there isn't too much point. The beta price is $495 as shown here:
http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/ebike-parts/m ... e-hub.html
AllAxleHubStore.jpg
AllAxleHubStore.jpg (61.65 KiB) Viewed 3438 times
We already have over twice as many people who've expressed interest over email than we have actual motors available, so we are looking for beta candidates who have a specific usage case and ebike background where it makes sense to use this hub. So 15mm or 20mm thru-axle front forks, or a setup with regular 9mm quick release skewers where the quick release capability is really important. Also anyone doing stub-axle installs on trikes or quad vehicles who has the shop tools to make it work. If that sounds like you then send an email to the general info@ebikes.ca explaining what you'd intend to use it for and why this is the ideal motor for the job.
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Re: 20mm thru axle grin tech and green motion geared motor 1

Post by Wheazel » Oct 06 2016 8:22am

Wow if I had known this motor would come when starting to plan my tilting winter quad build.
Might have changed the build completely.

From my pov the single side mount on a 20mm axle is the game changer here.

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Re: 20mm thru axle grin tech and green motion geared motor 1

Post by bionicdan » Oct 06 2016 12:02pm

Ah OK never mind. I just didn't like 6kg up front for obvious reasons but am running 20mm axles up front with a diy converter. Probably just sell this bike and get a qulbix perhaps :)
GEARS? Where we're going we dont need gears!

Due to metal plates and a body full of nuts and bolts I am as bionic as my bike. Mxus 4t 120v toshiba fets and 16ah 24s nanotech.

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Re: 20mm thru axle grin tech and green motion geared motor 1

Post by melodious » Oct 06 2016 6:25pm

Hmmm. Wondering after the initial trials and tribulations are over if the transition to a rear through axle version would be in the picture.
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Re: 20mm thru axle grin tech and green motion geared motor 1

Post by amberwolf » Oct 07 2016 3:18am

justin_le wrote:It's only a front hub motor, so unless you have a thru-axle front suspension fork as well then there isn't too much point.
Hmmm....but as long as it's a DD motor, and can be run reversed, you could bolt a threaded adapter flange to the disc brake mount holes, flip the motor around, and use a longer axle, spacers as needed (would thrust bearings be needed against the motor? or is there a bearing surface exposed for it's ID edge to rest those against?), and a thread on freewheel of whatever number of sprockets you'd like....

That's a first moment's thought, without modding the motor covers, or knowing anything in particular about it other than what I can see in the pics and stuff.

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