Golden Motor, HPM 3kW non-hub w/air-cooling

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spinningmagnets   100 GW

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Golden Motor, HPM 3kW non-hub w/air-cooling

Post by spinningmagnets » Sep 05 2014 4:31pm

The diameter is 182mm (7.2 inches), and the width is roughly 124mm (4.9 inches), stock shaft is 20mm dia. The website rates them for 48V-96V. $288 for air-cooling, and $308 for liquid cooling. The brushless controllers that are designed to go with this motor are sine-wave, and $260-$295. One spec list has it at 3,000-5,000 RPMs when used with 48V-72V, so the kV is approximately 62-69 RPMs per volt?

Luke's famous deathbike used the larger Golden Motor Axial-Flux 10kW motor at one time (he has moved up to several more powerful motors now) , and I suspect this smaller version of that motor has a similar internal construction. For those who have been concerned that air-cooling allows dust to be blown into bearings, this stator is firmly attached to an aluminum side-plate, and the external fan only blows air across the outside of the sideplate...not a bad way to go.

Here's a build: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 8#p1219370

http://www.goldenmotor.com/
motorGM3kw.png
motorGM3kw.png (217.65 KiB) Viewed 7866 times
__________________________________________________
These pics below are the larger HPM 5-kW, from 2012

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 30&t=46453

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Re: Golden Motor, HPM 3kW non-hub w/air-cooling

Post by speedmd » Sep 06 2014 1:30pm

Thanks for posting this spinningmagnets.

Looks to be a excellent choice for a big block setup. I want one. Controller looks great also. Maybe next year.

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Re: Golden Motor, HPM 3kW non-hub w/air-cooling

Post by bzhwindtalker » Sep 07 2014 10:28am

Want to try one in a LMX frame

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Re: Golden Motor, HPM 3kW non-hub w/air-cooling

Post by K-ray » Sep 07 2014 11:11am

^^ +1... what he said :lol:

This thing being rated at 3X that of the "big block" and a little over 1.5X the mass... I'm assuming power potential of
about 2X... thoughts? I am also curious, they list these with various voltage options... are they in fact winding them
differently per associated controller? Guess I should just contact them for charts... I remember someone pointing out a higher
potential (72V) of the three 5000W model series. I would like to run close to 100V and would appreciate advice on the smartest
choice... assuming there are options. :?

Kevin

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Re: Golden Motor, HPM 3kW non-hub w/air-cooling

Post by speedmd » Sep 07 2014 1:30pm

Yes K-ray, chase down some more spec's and share. I am thinking it best to figure what you have desire / room for in battery / gearing and get the one that is best suited. Most likely I will be staying with a 18s lipo setup. Great to finally see this type of power in a narrow affordable setup.

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Re: Golden Motor, HPM 3kW non-hub w/air-cooling

Post by litespeed » Sep 07 2014 9:08pm

Nice!

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Re: Golden Motor, HPM 3kW non-hub w/air-cooling

Post by spinningmagnets » Sep 07 2014 9:19pm

I have been disappointed in the past by the posted information from the company that is selling a product, and...the phone/email customer service rep often doesn't know much about what they are selling, plus...the posted specs are not clear. That being said...

Since the listed RPMs and Voltages are 3,000-5,000 compared to 48V-72V...I suspect there is currently only one Kv. Lukes work with the very large 10-kW motor on the Deathbike is fun and impressive, the smaller 5-kW is the same diameter (same sideplates, too?) but narrower. If geared for only 40-MPH I suspect the 5-kW would have almost as hard an acceleration as the wider 10-kW (more copper mass, more amps).

One good thing about these Golden Motor non-hubs is that...3-kW at 72V is roughly only 42-amps. This sounds realistic for the 7 X 5-inch size, especially when the active air-cooling is factored in.

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Re: Golden Motor, HPM 3kW non-hub w/air-cooling

Post by neptronix » Sep 08 2014 4:17am

Thanks for the tip off!

The price is nice and the 17lb figure makes this a good choice for a bigass cargo bike or whatever.

If it's 3,000rpm unloaded, then we've got a motor that would be bitchin for chain drive.... a nice replacement for the transmagnetics motors which were a nice middle ground for ebikes..
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Re: Golden Motor, HPM 3kW non-hub w/air-cooling

Post by bzhwindtalker » Sep 08 2014 4:29am

A nice upgrade to the bht 1000w!

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Re: Golden Motor, HPM 3kW non-hub w/air-cooling

Post by speedmd » Sep 08 2014 7:48am

They post a data sheet for a 48V version. http://www.goldenmotor.com/hubmotors/hu ... 20Data.pdf Shows power in and power out up to 4750 RPM with torque, amps, and what looks like efficiency (% )listed. Looks to be very efficient up to 4500 rpm. Imagine the higher voltage versions are just wired with a lower kv and have power-efficiency curves much like it. Would be nice to confirm what they are like to see how they compare.

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Re: Golden Motor, HPM 3kW non-hub w/air-cooling

Post by K-ray » Sep 08 2014 10:05am

Hey Guys,
I heard back from Golden...

Thanks for your interest in our BLDC motor products.

Yes, there are variable windings for different customer's requirements. We will change windings for your specific needs. Basically we like to know the voltages, rated motor speed in RPM and rated power in watt.

Kind regards,

Philip Yao

They don't have any data other than the 48V that SpeedMD posted. The chart there peaks about 4000W /90 amps @ about 3500RPM.
The KV seems to be right around 100 in there example here. I'm thinking of ordering one with with a KV around 50... thinking it
should be able to handle 100 amps at 100V pretty easily and bursts to 150+ amps...? Whatcha think? Or maybe a little faster wind will still be in the 4000RPM range at the higher voltage when loaded...? :? I want to flog it but not fry it :lol:

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Re: Golden Motor, HPM 3kW non-hub w/air-cooling

Post by K-ray » Sep 08 2014 10:15am

Oh and speaking of flogging / frying... Philip did confirm...

Yes, there is a temerature sensor (KTY84) inside motor winding which is used for controller to detect overheat.

Thanks,

Philip Yao

8)

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Re: Golden Motor, HPM 3kW non-hub w/air-cooling

Post by spinningmagnets » Sep 08 2014 10:16am

That's awesome news! The power density of a motor is greatly enhanced by raising the RPMs and increasing the reduction, but how much is too much?

If they can wind for a very low Kv, I would start the calculation with the voltage you can fit in the frame with your preferred battery type. Then estimate the amount of reduction that you can realistically use. It would be nice to use a single reduction, but if a second reduction would be required...that would add another layer of options for the design. Even if the primary reduction was a simple 2:1 belt, it might be enough so that you don't need to use a huge custom sprocket at the rear wheel.

It would be nice to know the max/min Kv that was possible for this particular motor, plus whether it can be terminated in either Delta or Wye...

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Re: Golden Motor, HPM 3kW non-hub w/air-cooling

Post by speedmd » Sep 08 2014 10:55am

The controller / motor may be somewhat optimized for the lower voltages. I would not assume, that you could just up the voltage for more RPM and not suffer some efficiency rpm range hits. Who knows, as there may be controller or eddy current issues that are not as pretty as the 48v setup. It does look promising.

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Re: Golden Motor, HPM 3kW non-hub w/air-cooling

Post by teklektik » Sep 08 2014 1:02pm

HPM3000 - 48V data plotted vs rpm
GM3K-48v_DynoData.png
GM3K-48v_DynoData.png (83.55 KiB) Viewed 7565 times
Tabular data:
GM3K-48v_DynoDataTable.png
GM3K-48v_DynoDataTable.png (152.23 KiB) Viewed 2059 times
Last edited by teklektik on Sep 11 2014 2:48pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Golden Motor, HPM 3kW non-hub w/air-cooling

Post by grindz145 » Sep 08 2014 1:04pm

Nice! That's a funny little bump right there at 3500RPM. I wonder if that's intentional.

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Re: Golden Motor, HPM 3kW non-hub w/air-cooling

Post by neptronix » Sep 08 2014 3:02pm

One thing about GM's other motors is that they typically adjust the winding to give a similar loaded RPM on various voltages. You will find that with the 5-10kW motors, the efficiency and power output is best on higher voltages.

The graphs for the slightly larger motor may tell you something about these on higher voltage.
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Re: Golden Motor, HPM 3kW non-hub w/air-cooling

Post by speedmd » Sep 08 2014 3:11pm

I am hoping to see some data on this controller and motor together fed with a suitable 18 or - 20s lipo setup. Hopefully we see something soon.

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Re: Golden Motor, HPM 3kW non-hub w/air-cooling

Post by K-ray » Sep 08 2014 3:26pm

neptronix wrote:One thing about GM's other motors is that they typically adjust the winding to give a similar loaded RPM on various voltages. You will find that with the 5-10kW motors, the efficiency and power output is best on higher voltages.

The graphs for the slightly larger motor may tell you something about these on higher voltage.
Thanks for that Nep 8)
Kind of what I'm hoping for and asked in my last question to Golden...(haven't got a reply yet). Verifying this idea of similar design and subsequent similar chart curves? I too would like to get more details prior to choosing :)

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Re: Golden Motor, HPM 3kW non-hub w/air-cooling

Post by speedmd » Sep 08 2014 3:40pm

Looked at the 10kw motor data sheets and the 72v setup looks a bit better than the 96v efficiency wise. Will have to plot it out a see if we have a different looking curve.
http://www.goldenmotor.com/eCar/HPM96-10000.pdf
http://www.goldenmotor.com/eCar/HPM72-10000.pdf
http://www.goldenmotor.com/eCar/HPM48-10000.pdf
Last edited by speedmd on Sep 08 2014 6:52pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Golden Motor, HPM 3kW non-hub w/air-cooling

Post by wineboyrider » Sep 08 2014 3:49pm

neptronix wrote:Thanks for the tip off!

The price is nice and the 17lb figure makes this a good choice for a bigass cargo bike or whatever.

If it's 3,000rpm unloaded, then we've got a motor that would be bitchin for chain drive.... a nice replacement for the transmagnetics motors which were a nice middle ground for ebikes..
Would make a great Electric Lawn Mower or Tractor motor too!
ES IS SAVED! THANK YOU JUSTIN.

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Re: Golden Motor, HPM 3kW non-hub w/air-cooling

Post by teklektik » Sep 08 2014 5:10pm

neptronix wrote:One thing about GM's other motors is that they typically adjust the winding to give a similar loaded RPM on various voltages. You will find that with the 5-10kW motors, the efficiency and power output is best on higher voltages.
Here's the HPM5000 at 48v and 72v - no 96v data available.
As nep noted the rpm range is pretty similar for both voltages with the higher voltage version being slightly more efficient at the same motor power.
At around the rated 5kW power, the 48v and 72v motors run at about 3550 vs 3700 rpm with efficiencies of about 85% vs 90% respectively.
GM5K-48v72v_DynoData.png
GM5K-48v72v_DynoData.png (86.32 KiB) Viewed 7465 times
Tabular data:
GM5K-48v72v_DynoDataTable.png
(click to enlarge)
Last edited by teklektik on Sep 10 2014 12:43pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Golden Motor, HPM 3kW non-hub w/air-cooling

Post by speedmd » Sep 09 2014 8:21am

Hi Teklektik

Thanks for the charting. The 10k motor has all three voltages listed.

What program are you using for graphing and is it possible to share?

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Re: Golden Motor, HPM 3kW non-hub w/air-cooling

Post by K-ray » Sep 09 2014 11:59am

Great input here 8)
My response from Golden about design comparison between this new 3KW vs their larger offerings:

This 3KW model is new but the design is exactly same as our 5KW and 10KW model which have been for production in last 4 years. We just extended BLDC series to 3KW and 20KW models with our same patented technology. Therefore we are confident that the motor is reliable with the same performance as 5KW and 10KW models.

For 3KW motor, 72V system is good enough to get best performance.

Best regards,

Philip Yao

The last sentence was responding to a "recommendation" for a high performance / high efficiency option.
I'm thinking for my app, a wind somewhere in the 50KV range would be nice for a very do-able single reduction :D
Their 10KW examples in the spec sheets shows this for the 96volt wind... about 65KV for the 72V. Somewhere within this
range would work... I'm not too keen on the one they have charted with a KV of about 100.
I'm waiting to hear back if these can in fact be done... minimum purchase requirement if any, etc..?
Will follow-up :mrgreen:

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Re: Golden Motor, HPM 3kW non-hub w/air-cooling

Post by teklektik » Sep 09 2014 12:19pm

speedmd wrote:Thanks for the charting. The 10k motor has all three voltages listed.
Ya - I downloaded all the data files but thought folks were mostly interested in the 3kW or maybe 5kW motors.

I will try to plot the 10kW data although I'm hesitant to try to draw to many performance parallels for the smaller motors. Additional 3kW data files at other voltages would be welcome.
speedmd wrote:What program are you using for graphing and is it possible to share?
Just a little Excel stuff...
If you don't have MS Office, you can do the same with free versions: Open Office or Libre Office.
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