Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by ABritInNY » Sep 22 2015 7:56am

neptronix wrote:
Baron wrote:Is 16*4t the fastest wind they offer? does anyone know if they do a faster wind, 3t?
Don't buy a 3t if it exists, unless you have a 16 or 20 inch wheel. It is just going to be way too fast of a winding. You'd need a 24fet to drive it to it's potential ( >100A ) and even 48v would be too high of a voltage for it in a 26" wheel, lol.
Despite all this reading, this 3 month Ebike 'Newbie' is both spinning, a lil confused yet still committed to my 1st 'Build project,' and the leaf motor you all raved about (Yes I want to pedal and @least 7 speed)... I'm not understanding why the 4T is the overall best for a fast winding, IF as posted 3T does exist. Why too fast neptronix? would it's Torque on the flat suffer badly too?
I've a 24s lifepo4 76.8v nominal - 87.6v charged, cell Prismatic 30ah nominal, High drain 3c(90A)-8c(240A) but only a 50a-100a bms on the batt pack ("to match the leaf motors power," says vendor,) being assembled for me, to be mated 2 a custom Lyen edition 18 FET 4110 Mark 11 High endurance controller and obv the 1500w nominal Leaf. I was hoping the 3T winding on this 72v would be ..."Interesting" on a lighter bike but really meant for a heavier Enduro steel frame setup. Would that just not work right? as a newbie I'm still wrapping my head around it all :| any help explaining again is appreciated guys.
EEB frame set, 1500w Leafmotor 4t winding, Powervelocity 18fet/Lyen 18 fet 4110 ESC, 24s 30ah prismatic cell Lifepo4 batt w/60a-120a BMS, CA V3, Dropper Seat post.
Fusion 48v AGM (4x 12v 15ah) 1000w nom DD rear hub, 50a max ESC, 21sp FS Genesis overkill 650b conversion
Kayman Flash+ 350w Mxus geared hub, dual 36v 5.2ah batts 10.4ah 13a-15a ESC
Freway Vr01, 27sp Pedelec 250w Bafang geared hub, (2x) 36v 5.2ah batt, FVS ESC limited to 10a!! (yup sloow on roads but great on trails ;)

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by spinningmagnets » Sep 22 2015 11:30am

You mention a 3T motor using 72V, but you have not mentioned the top speed you hope to achieve, and also the diameter of rear wheel you will be using. This information would be helpful to find the answer you want.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Allex » Sep 22 2015 5:51pm

Sorry Leaf guys, without reading the whole tread yet, I would like to send one motor to Justin so we can have it on the sim. I see that this motor does gain popularity so it could be worth having it there.
So where is best to buy this one and what winding is the best(my guess 16x4)? We know that 4T has most copper fill on MXUS, so that version is popular.
If you want to contribute, you are welcome to join me.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Cowardlyduck » Sep 22 2015 6:27pm

Allex wrote:Sorry Leaf guys, without reading the whole tread yet, I would like to send one motor to Justin so we can have it on the sim. I see that this motor does gain popularity so it could be worth having it there.<br abp="682">So where is best to buy this one and what winding is the best(my guess 16x4)? We know that 4T has most copper fill on MXUS, so that version is popular.<br abp="683">If you want to contribute, you are welcome to join me.
This is awesome...Yes please Allex, and thanks for arranging this. :) I had been hoping to see the Leaf show up on the simulator at some stage.

If possible, I would suggest 2 Leaf motors might need to go on the sim. The '1000W' 30mm wide stator version and the '1500W' 35mm stator version. Both in 4T.

Hope that helps. :)

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ABritInNY   100 W

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by ABritInNY » Sep 22 2015 8:57pm

neptronix wrote:It might actually produce more torque because of the difference between torque per amps on your slower wind versus this extremely fast winding.

If you're comparing it to a HS4080, that motor does 80kmh on 72v, whereas the 4T leaf should do 95kmh on 72v. That's more than a 10% difference in speed vs. torque difference.

Sounds like it's time for a new battery.. lower volts, higher amps. That battery sag is hurting you too.
WOW! @72v the leaf motor can do 95kph on the 4T winding? I wish I would've read this comment of yours properly before asking you about the 3t winding for more speed :shock: lol ...95kph is quite enough, although i don't recall a vid of yours being THAT fast, (or is Kph confusing this English Mile man? :wink:
Also when ordering from factory, ppl have said they've had temp sensors installed by factory upon request (and I've also read of 7 speed freewheels? is there a compatibility prob that needs the 7speed freewheel from the factory? isn't it heavier to ship then?) SO, is there anything else I should remember to ask for aside from that and the 4t *16 winding? any help from anyone is always appreciated :D
EEB frame set, 1500w Leafmotor 4t winding, Powervelocity 18fet/Lyen 18 fet 4110 ESC, 24s 30ah prismatic cell Lifepo4 batt w/60a-120a BMS, CA V3, Dropper Seat post.
Fusion 48v AGM (4x 12v 15ah) 1000w nom DD rear hub, 50a max ESC, 21sp FS Genesis overkill 650b conversion
Kayman Flash+ 350w Mxus geared hub, dual 36v 5.2ah batts 10.4ah 13a-15a ESC
Freway Vr01, 27sp Pedelec 250w Bafang geared hub, (2x) 36v 5.2ah batt, FVS ESC limited to 10a!! (yup sloow on roads but great on trails ;)

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ABritInNY   100 W

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by ABritInNY » Sep 22 2015 9:06pm

spinningmagnets wrote:You mention a 3T motor using 72V, but you have not mentioned the top speed you hope to achieve, and also the diameter of rear wheel you will be using. This information would be helpful to find the answer you want.
It's for a 26" Mtb wheel on front and matching 26" on a 2.5 bike rim rear, that I want to attach a 7speed freewheel and disk brake on. I said 'Interesting' since I didn't know for sure on a 4t*16 winding. Since then I've read a comment by Neptronix, that @72v not sure exactly what amperage? Motor can get you 95kph on the Leaf 1500 (sounds more like its a 2.5 - 3 kw real world rating,) an that would be more than enough!
EEB frame set, 1500w Leafmotor 4t winding, Powervelocity 18fet/Lyen 18 fet 4110 ESC, 24s 30ah prismatic cell Lifepo4 batt w/60a-120a BMS, CA V3, Dropper Seat post.
Fusion 48v AGM (4x 12v 15ah) 1000w nom DD rear hub, 50a max ESC, 21sp FS Genesis overkill 650b conversion
Kayman Flash+ 350w Mxus geared hub, dual 36v 5.2ah batts 10.4ah 13a-15a ESC
Freway Vr01, 27sp Pedelec 250w Bafang geared hub, (2x) 36v 5.2ah batt, FVS ESC limited to 10a!! (yup sloow on roads but great on trails ;)

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Kodin » Sep 23 2015 12:25am

4T is standard; I emailed them and asked for heavier phase wires, (3mm), and temp sensor installed before I ordered. This will give you a beefier axle, which is good, and proper sized phase wires for the power we run through these on average. Stock wires are 2mm I think. Get the upgrade as there's no extra cost. Not sure if you can get 4mm phase wires as an option, no one has bothered to ask. Stock winding is 4T so maybe specify this if you really want to? I ordered mine with a 5T which gives one strand more of copper fill, and requires less current for the same speed. A 3T would probably require a new shaft to admit larger phase wires or else you'll be melting something if you abuse the motor. 4T's pull 50-60A easy. I think Nep pushed upwards of 80 into his for grins, and that was with 2mm phase wires from the covers on in. Top speed is 35-40 mph on the flat on these before you start overheating them. Smaller wheels are better. :) I'm doing a 26" just because.

Regarding the cassette hub option: Yes you can buy one. No you should not. 10mm shaft on one side is the reason why. My modified design if successful, will bump that up to 15mm, but requires turning or grinding a new shaft. I had to bore out the cassette body to 1.9mm wall thickness. This could cause the cassette unit to break, and possibly stop freewheeling at speed and start driving my pedals. Either way, I have a backup if that's the case and I don't lose my legs when it fails. It will be harder to build, but far more robust.

That reminds me... I need to order some lathe dogs tonight so I can start working on it in a week or two.
Tank Bike - (Previously YAG - Yet Another Genesis) - LeafBike 1500W 5t, custom shaft, 9 speed cassette, Chinese "Tank" EEB clone frame, Sabvoton SSC048150

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by redmonkey01 » Sep 24 2015 9:30pm

So I just ordered and received my leafbike leafmotor 1500w and it's 2mm phase wire... I messaged them and they replued that "with the cassette there is no room for 3mm phase wire" D= what?? :x

Now I don't know if they are just bullshuting me or what, but if anyone has the cassette with 3mm phase wire can you take some pictures with like calipers measuring it so I can compare and show leafbike?

Also, the motor I have is 5t winding so I'll let you guys know its performance once I get this stuff sorted out and installed =)

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Kodin » Sep 25 2015 2:15am

Was this the 1000W or 1500W motor? I had them send me a one-off shaft and side covers for a cassette supposedly bored for use with 3mm phase wires, along with a spare wire bundle, all for the 1500W model. ...I should measure those as I never unwrapped them.... I'll follow up in the morning and post back here with measurements and whether or not the phase wire bundle even fits in the shaft.
Tank Bike - (Previously YAG - Yet Another Genesis) - LeafBike 1500W 5t, custom shaft, 9 speed cassette, Chinese "Tank" EEB clone frame, Sabvoton SSC048150

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Kodin » Sep 26 2015 2:43pm

Phase wire bundle for 3mm^2 phase wires: they crimped then soldered copper ring connectors to this one. Faaaancy.
Image
Slightly too small to fit the bolts for my Sabvoton, but with a dulled drill bit they should (safely) drill out the fraction of a mm to pass the threads. (Brass and ESPECIALLY copper are very "grabby" when you drill them. Dull the cutting edge at the tip with a couple swipes of a sharpening stone or hone on a spare drill bit to keep them from jamming in the material when you drill. Only takes like 3 swipes; you want to give the cutting edge a neutral rake. Google brass or copper drilling for more info).

Sheath diameter varies a bit but looks like 8mm outer at the thickest sections.
Image

Tried fitting my 8mm drill bit through the cable hole, and it wouldn't fit. 7.5mm bit does.
Image
Measured it, and hole varies between 7.90mm and 8.03mm, which would explain it.
This looks like it'll be fun fishing the phase wire bundle through... :?

Remember, this is for the 35mm version of the motor. (1500W model) with the cassette option, designed for 3mm phase wires.

I'll probably ream out the hole to 8mm and shove some drill rod in there to measure hole angles when I do my custom shaft.
Tank Bike - (Previously YAG - Yet Another Genesis) - LeafBike 1500W 5t, custom shaft, 9 speed cassette, Chinese "Tank" EEB clone frame, Sabvoton SSC048150

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Allex » Sep 27 2015 6:34pm

Cowardlyduck wrote:
Allex wrote:Sorry Leaf guys, without reading the whole tread yet, I would like to send one motor to Justin so we can have it on the sim. I see that this motor does gain popularity so it could be worth having it there.<br abp="682">So where is best to buy this one and what winding is the best(my guess 16x4)? We know that 4T has most copper fill on MXUS, so that version is popular.<br abp="683">If you want to contribute, you are welcome to join me.
This is awesome...Yes please Allex, and thanks for arranging this. :) I had been hoping to see the Leaf show up on the simulator at some stage.

If possible, I would suggest 2 Leaf motors might need to go on the sim. The '1000W' 30mm wide stator version and the '1500W' 35mm stator version. Both in 4T.

Hope that helps. :)

Cheers

Right now I am considering sending 30mm version in. This is so we can directly compare it to 9C and Crystalyte 30mm motors.
If somebody want to help out getting 35mm up as well, you could make a direct donation to the project by sending PayPal to my email address stokgolm @ gmail.com

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Kodin » Sep 27 2015 7:25pm

When you order email first and ask for 3mm phase wires and temp sensor.
Tank Bike - (Previously YAG - Yet Another Genesis) - LeafBike 1500W 5t, custom shaft, 9 speed cassette, Chinese "Tank" EEB clone frame, Sabvoton SSC048150

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Cowardlyduck » Sep 27 2015 7:59pm

Allex wrote:Right now I am considering sending 30mm version in. This is so we can directly compare it to 9C and Crystalyte 30mm motors.
Thanks Allex.
It seems to me like the 35mm version is more popular here...including myself, and the 35mm version would be a good direct comparison to the Crystalyte HS35xx motors, so if I had to chose my preference would be for the 35mm 1500W version if possible, but I would be happy either way for these motors to be tested. :)

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by madin88 » Sep 28 2015 6:54am

Allex wrote: Right now I am considering sending 30mm version in. This is so we can directly compare it to 9C and Crystalyte 30mm motors.
If somebody want to help out getting 35mm up as well, you could make a direct donation to the project by sending PayPal to my email address stokgolm @ gmail.com
i also would say the 30mm by all means, but i would support both :)
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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Kodin » Sep 28 2015 11:35pm

Donated $40 to the cause for testing both motors. Hopefully I'm not the only one. :)
Tank Bike - (Previously YAG - Yet Another Genesis) - LeafBike 1500W 5t, custom shaft, 9 speed cassette, Chinese "Tank" EEB clone frame, Sabvoton SSC048150

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by neptronix » Sep 29 2015 2:26am

If you guys wanna get the 1500W 4T or 5T model simulated by ebikes.ca and are looking for donations, hit me up via PM.
Efficiency is everything :bolt:

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Allex » Sep 29 2015 2:44am

PM sent
Kodin, thats great, we need a few more like you :)
I talked to Justin and he is all in to test them for us.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Kodin » Sep 29 2015 8:07am

Do we want a 4T to represent a "stock" model? Or go with 5T and get the extra strand of copper fill?
Tank Bike - (Previously YAG - Yet Another Genesis) - LeafBike 1500W 5t, custom shaft, 9 speed cassette, Chinese "Tank" EEB clone frame, Sabvoton SSC048150

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Allex » Sep 29 2015 9:34am

Raised with another 40USD, thank you Martin!
We now have 80USD, about half the motor without shipping :)

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by liveforphysics » Sep 29 2015 1:22pm

I installed one of these 1500W leaf bike motors on a NYX frame with an Adaptto controller as an ebike build for my wife. I seem to be unable to notice a difference in acceleration between the normal and boost settings (boost is ~100A phase higher), so it seems to be into saturation already.

When I get a few free minutes, I'm going to dyno the vehicle slowly moving up phase current settings in 25A increments until the corresponding increase in torque becomes non-linear, then I will share that data with you guys.

ATB,
-Luke
Last edited by liveforphysics on Sep 29 2015 1:40pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by speedmd » Sep 29 2015 1:27pm

Luke, you have a 15,000 W Leaf? :shock: Just a sticky key most likely. Interested in the dyno data for certain.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by liveforphysics » Sep 29 2015 1:39pm

speedmd wrote:Luke, you have a 15,000 W Leaf? :shock: Just a sticky key most likely. Interested in the dyno data for certain.
lol! Thanks for spotting my typo, edited. :-)
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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by jkbrigman » Sep 29 2015 1:53pm

liveforphysics wrote:I installed one of these 1500W leaf bike motors on a NYX frame with an Adaptto controller as an ebike build for my wife. I seem to be unable to notice a difference in acceleration between the normal and boost settings (boost is ~100A phase higher), so it seems to be into saturation already.

When I get a few free minutes, I'm going to dyno the vehicle slowly moving up phase current settings in 25A increments until the corresponding increase in torque becomes non-linear, then I will share that data with you guys.

ATB,
-Luke
Luke, I'm very interested in your data - I'm awful close to pulling the trigger to order one in a 26" wheel. How was your purchase experience?
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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by neptronix » Sep 29 2015 2:28pm

I'd guess that the saturation point for the 4T would be around 100A or so.. look forward to real testing though :)
Efficiency is everything :bolt:

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: 20" eZee on a Cannondale Semi Recumbent.
Whipper-snapper: ? on a lightweight BikeE Semi Recumbent

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Kodin » Sep 29 2015 8:09pm

Luke, 2mm or 3mm phase wires BTW?
Tank Bike - (Previously YAG - Yet Another Genesis) - LeafBike 1500W 5t, custom shaft, 9 speed cassette, Chinese "Tank" EEB clone frame, Sabvoton SSC048150

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