Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Electric Motors and Controllers
fussler   100 µW

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by fussler » Nov 18 2016 3:32pm

Motor runs but i do not get any RPM reading and it is not linear when throttle applied.

Speed readout works, so does the motor but It just jerks around until at full speed

Why can't i find any setting for leafbike on Cycle analyst ?

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neptronix   100 GW

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by neptronix » Nov 25 2016 3:17pm

There are no specific settings for the motor in the cycle analyst. But there is a manual for it online if the cycle analyst is your problem.
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: 20" eZee on a Cannondale Semi Recumbent.
Whipper-snapper: ? on a lightweight BikeE Semi Recumbent

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Aceinthesky » Jan 25 2017 5:01pm

Just bought a em3ev 18 fet IRFB4110, cav3, and thinking about buying a 1500w leaf motor. I have a Luna cycle 52v pack that can give out 50amps continous and 70amps burst. The baterry is a triangle pack with 20 ah. I live in Houston area and need to be able to cruise at about 40mph, to not get ran over by idiot cagers. There are absolutely not hills around here just flat land. Comute will be about 17 miles. Temperatures get in the 100's f in summer over here. Is this motor going to overheat on me, or do I need to look for another option. I really want to keep my baterry since I paid 600 for it. I have a 26" trek mountain bike.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by neptronix » Jan 26 2017 2:29am

This motor can maintain 40mph for quite some time if you are in a tuck or vent it.. but not in 100f weather, no way. Any hub motor will suffer due to the difficulty in shedding heat.. even a 50mm wide cromotor might even struggle in that condition.

But let's be realistic.. how much riding will you do in 100f weather? at 90F and 40mph, it's like riding through a hair dryer already..

Also.. the leafmotor's default winding, 4T, will eat 40A continuously at 40mph in a 26" wheel. If you have a pack made of Samsung 25r cells, it should handle this fine, as you've got a lot of discharge overhead. If you have some other cell from luna, the pack is going to have a lot of sag and generate quite a bit of heat. The BMS can dish the power out, but the 1-3C rated cells used in other packs at a starting temp of 100F will quickly pass that critical 160f temperature mark and start taking small amounts of damage every cycle, shortening the life.

..and that is why i run a 7C 25ah lipo pack.. the leaf will readily give it a constant 2C or even 2.5C load.. but thanks to the overhead i have, i could pull up a hill all day in 110F weather.. and it's the motor that'll smoke, not the battery.. :)
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: 20" eZee on a Cannondale Semi Recumbent.
Whipper-snapper: ? on a lightweight BikeE Semi Recumbent

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Aceinthesky » Jan 26 2017 2:00pm

Thanks for the reply. Well I ordered a mxus 3000 v3 3t on a 26" wheel. The seller even included the service of filling it with ff and sealing the hub. I'll be buying some hubsinks and holefully it does not overheat in the Texas summer 90-100f, during 15 mile 40mph flat land cruise.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by eflyersteve » Feb 17 2017 10:01am

Thought I'd revive an old thread. I'm building an electric enduro bike (Chinese built steel framed bike) and am selecting a 1500w hub system. This thread had convinced me that it would be my best option, but browsing alibaba, I find other, similar system for some savings. However contact with the vendors via alibaba is slow and I don't always get clear answers. So I started sending Leafbike questions via email. I always get a reply within a few hours with clear answers. This and other posts about their customer service are really pushing me toward a purchase from them even at a higher price.

A few questions for the group:

Has anyone run a single speed freewheel on the 1500W kit on the enduro bike swingarm? And if so, how did you handle alignment of the freewheel and disc? I see that they sell a spacer for the disc, but having never built anything like this (motor with 135mm shoulders on the axle in a 155mm dropout) I wonder how difficult it is to get things to align? Or would it be to my advantage to run a 6 or 7 speed with derailleur as a drive side spacer? This will be used more as a motorcycle with pedals, albeit at a more sedate speed of 20-25mph.

Considering my intended speed (running a 12S lipo setup), I'm guessing the stock controller is adequate as long as I'm not running full throttle for long periods of time? It's not very hilly here so mostly flat areas.

I see that Leafbike lists the 1500w kit as the latest 2017 updates. Any ideas on what might have changed for 2017? (EDIT - I don't see that now that I am looking so chalk this question up to hub motor shopping overload - probably read it on some other website)

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neptronix   100 GW

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by neptronix » Feb 17 2017 2:29pm

Don't buy the stock controller.. it can barely touch what the motor is capable of and will only produce around 1800w peaks with your lipo. It's also not programmable and of low efficiency..

Does your enduro buke have 135mm dropouts like this motor does? if it also has a 68-73mm dropout, you could just use a 3 speed freewheel or something and run it to one of the gears or whatever.

I don't see anything new about the motor here, other than marketing!
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: 20" eZee on a Cannondale Semi Recumbent.
Whipper-snapper: ? on a lightweight BikeE Semi Recumbent

eflyersteve   10 W

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by eflyersteve » Feb 17 2017 3:45pm

I have 155mm dropouts. Standard bottom bracket (if that is what you meant by 68/73). I also want to make sure the wheel is centered and would like to retain the rear disc brake if I can space it out enough.
Any advise on a 'budget' controller that is programmable?

Thanks again!

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Cowardlyduck   100 MW

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Cowardlyduck » Feb 17 2017 6:00pm

My Fighter has 160mm dropouts. I managed to get Leafmotor to custom make me an axle with extra wide shoulders at no extra charge.
I think they got their axle manufacturer to supply them with a 'sample' at that time with the potential promise of larger quantity orders.
The dimension details would be back somewhere in this thread if you search.

It would probably be worth contacting them and asking if they can extend the shoulders for you also.
Failing that, plenty of others have just spaced out the difference using washers or nuts. It's not ideal, but it can work and holds up in many cases.

A good controller to mate up with the 1500W Leaf would be anything capable of 3000W+. In my case I've used my Adaptto MiniE to run my Leaf motor up to 7.8KW peak, and with my fan cooling setup am able to run about 3KW continuous without overheating.
So it kind of depends on how hard you want to push it, and how good your cooling set-up is.
If your just after something simple plug-and-play, I would suggest the new Grinfineon controllers, but the most you will get out of one is about 2.8KW if you use a 72V battery.
http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicy ... 40-gr.html

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by SlowCo » Feb 17 2017 7:20pm

@eflyersteve:
Users Powervelocity and Evolutiongts here on E-S also sell affordable sinewave controllers that would work very well with the Leaf 1500W:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 31&t=75888

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 9#p1254219

https://www.electricrt.com/collections/ ... controller

https://www.electricrt.com/collections/ ... -18-mosfet (on paper this would be my favorite)

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by eflyersteve » Feb 20 2017 8:32pm

Ordered wheel/hub today (26" all black for 2.5" wide tire). Ordered the following controller with throttle:

https://www.electricrt.com/collections/ ... controller

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll have more questions and comments as I finish assembly.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Swe » Feb 27 2017 2:41pm

I know this is the 1500W topic, but it does not seem to be any 1000W-topics here and maybe some of you have knowlege of the 1000W since both are Leaf...

Do you think 48V 18-20A (11,6Ah 2C) is enough to run the 1000W version? 6T version. I will use it on a 20" front wheel cargo bike to assist on hills.

I want to use my existing battery the nearest future and thats why I am limited. If my battery is to weak I will probably go for a BBS02 instead.


Motor kit:
http://www.leafbike.com/products/diy-bi ... l-918.html

Graph:
http://www.leafbike.com/u_file/images/1 ... a5c455.jpg

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Wheazel   10 kW

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Wheazel » Feb 28 2017 2:08am

Swe wrote:I know this is the 1500W topic, but it does not seem to be any 1000W-topics here and maybe some of you have knowlege of the 1000W since both are Leaf...

Do you think 48V 18-20A (11,6Ah 2C) is enough to run the 1000W version? 6T version. I will use it on a 20" front wheel cargo bike to assist on hills.

I want to use my existing battery the nearest future and thats why I am limited. If my battery is to weak I will probably go for a BBS02 instead.


Motor kit:
http://www.leafbike.com/products/diy-bi ... l-918.html

Graph:
http://www.leafbike.com/u_file/images/1 ... a5c455.jpg
If we are talking assist, and not mountain hills, the 1000W in a 20" wheel could be enough.
I did run the 1500W in a 26" rear wheel on my cargobike with good results. Could have used some more torque on steep hills.
Best of all was the overall efficiency of the leaf setup. This was on a 18s pack (maybe 67v under load) and up to 30-35ish amps.
Would not have changed motor if it weren't for the spokes breaking from fatigue.

Now I am using the mxus 3k, and it has a little more torque, but also sits in a slightly smaller rear wheel. (19" moped size)
Overall I would have thought the difference between the leaf and mxus to be bigger.

If you want more than assist on a steeper hill with a heavy vehicle, the momentary power your battery/system can deliver would probably be on the low side.
For pretty much anything else it would most likely work well. Hub motors like small wheels :)

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Swe » Feb 28 2017 2:01pm

I don't mean if 1000W is strong enough for me. I wonder if my 48V battery with shorter periods of 18-20A is enough for the 1000W-motor to work or if the motor is too big to work, and that I should go for a 36V 750W version or similair instead (but still use 48V).

Leaf recommended the 48V 1000W fot my battery. Not sure if they understood I meant 18A max and not 18Ah...

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cycborg   1 kW

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by cycborg » Feb 28 2017 5:08pm

Swe wrote:I don't mean if 1000W is strong enough for me. I wonder if my 48V battery with shorter periods of 18-20A is enough for the 1000W-motor to work or if the motor is too big to work, and that I should go for a 36V 750W version or similair instead (but still use 48V).

Leaf recommended the 48V 1000W fot my battery. Not sure if they understood I meant 18A max and not 18Ah...
The dyno test you linked to was done at 50 V and tops out under 25 A, so it seems you're close to where they think it should operate. It can certainly handle more, but it's not a matter of "too much motor", just not using the motor's full potential. It could be "too much motor" if there's a weight penalty, but the 1000 W and 750 W are listed at the same weight. If you go for the 1000 W you can use the extra power when the time comes to upgrade your battery.

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Wheazel   10 kW

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Wheazel » Mar 01 2017 4:23am

Swe wrote:I don't mean if 1000W is strong enough for me. I wonder if my 48V battery with shorter periods of 18-20A is enough for the 1000W-motor to work or if the motor is too big to work, and that I should go for a 36V 750W version or similair instead (but still use 48V).

Leaf recommended the 48V 1000W fot my battery. Not sure if they understood I meant 18A max and not 18Ah...
For cargobikes with DD hubs the general challenge is to get enough torque for the needs.
A bigger motor (wider stator) spins slower and delivers more torque per Ampere.
That is why going for the bigger option is better, as cycborg also pointed out.

You can always restrict the current from the battery with a CA or intelligent controller.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Swe » Mar 01 2017 4:29am

Okay I will test the 1000W, 10*6T 20"! As mentionee the 750W is not lighter. Actually it is heavier, strange...

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Wheazel   10 kW

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Wheazel » Mar 01 2017 8:11am

Swe wrote:Okay I will test the 1000W, 10*6T 20"! As mentionee the 750W is not lighter. Actually it is heavier, strange...
That sounds odd, could the weight statements be off? But regardless, the wider the stator the better.
The fact that you are driving a 20" wheel makes the equation more favorable as well.
Please report back how it turns out!

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by markz » Mar 02 2017 8:55pm

A smaller diameter wheel is better for the motor, less speed, higher efficiency, MORE TORQUE!

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by eflyersteve » Mar 03 2017 12:18pm

Well I received my 1500 Watt 26" motor/wheel. Phase wires seem to be the smaller, original gauge (measure less than 3mm including the insulation). The full kit mentions "Update “3mm phase wires” & "Newest version hub" which I assumed meant 3mm conductors (around 9ga). The wheel only kit doesn't mention this although all other specifications seem the same. I won't be pushing more than 32-40A through this at 48V (12S lipo), think it will be an issue? I'm going to remove the ring terminals and wire a 3 position connector that's rated for 45 amps:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01IP ... UTF8&psc=1

I'll also be wiring in a connector for the halls for now:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00W8 ... UTF8&psc=1

Also, maybe I missed it, but the hall connector has 6 conductors - is one for temperature perhaps?

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by markz » Mar 03 2017 3:27pm

the usual red & black
and white would be the temp sensor
So yes, 3 halls plus 2 or maybe an extra one added for yes the temp sensor.

I think you wont have any issues with that setup, 2kw is fine all day long I would think with that motor.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by amberwolf » Mar 06 2017 9:02pm

EDIT: the post I was replying to no longer exists; I assume eflyersteve removed it for some reason.

In case the reply is still useful, Iv'e left it below.

@eflyersteve:

If two controllers both do nothing, then something is either not hooked up on the controllers that needs to be, or is hooked up that shouldn't be, or otherwise not getting the right signals to the right place.

If the motor does not respond at all regardless of combination, what happens when you manually spin the motor *while* giving it throttle, with the wheel off-ground?

If it has no change in resistance compared to havng no power to it, then something is not allowing the controller to output phase power to the motor itself.

If the motor has resistance to manual spinning while throttle is applied (but not when it isn't) then the controlelr is trying to do something, and is unable to do it. That could be from a wrong combo, or some other issue.


If the controller is not being allowed to output to the motor, it could be any of the following, or others:
--ebrake line disabling controller (shorted or open depending on how controller is setup / designed
--PAS being enabled and required in controller (setup or design), but not present
--throttle being disabled in controller (setup or design)
--voltage from battery below controller's LVC (setup or design)


You may have already gone thru all this, but perhaps it is worth a try, to see if in the setup program, set all those things to whatever your wiring and battery is setup for.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by eflyersteve » Mar 06 2017 10:42pm

Vendor sent a profile with a higher Regen voltage (77.6v) and a very low LVC (29.8v) that seems to have fixed the issue. Not sure why this fixed it though as I'm running a 12s lipo.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by amberwolf » Mar 08 2017 12:52am

Sounds like something is wrong inside the controller. Designs vary, but you could look up "controller LVC" and see what others have done to alter that on various controller designs, if you want to alter yours--but if you just got the controller I'd talk to the vendor about replacing it under whatever warranty they have, unless they have specific info on it and you're willing to do the repair.

It might also be possible that your battery pack is actually low, but I'd guess it wouldn't be anywhere near *that* low. ;)

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by eflyersteve » Mar 08 2017 6:13am

Vendor had sent a second unit. Both behave this way and they are aware this is an issue but don't offer a solution. I've been searching on ES and will continue until I get it figured out.

Thanks.

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