Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Electric Motors and Controllers
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madin88   100 MW

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by madin88 » Sep 20 2017 11:34am

there are three different types of controllers:

- trapezoidal
- sinewave
- sinewave with FOC

FOC is the most efficient at low RPM (high torque) and also at high RPM.

AlanB has attached a pdf here if you like to read more: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 6#p1319953

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by markz » Sep 26 2017 4:02am

The post about the Sinewave Silence Silent being More Torque
Been kicking around my brain

Justin_le has got a post about that
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... e#p1197760

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Ecky » Dec 06 2017 12:04pm

If I wanted to achieve ~45mph @ 72v nominal with a 20 inch rim, that would be approximately 730RPM loaded, right? What would that be, 4T?

EDIT: This is a big thread to read, but what do I need to do to make sure I get a version which can take a freewheel cassette?

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by amberwolf » Dec 06 2017 2:04pm

Do you want a freewheel, or a cassette? They're two different things.

Freewheel ahs threads, cassette has splines.

Ask the vendor for a good picture of that side of the motor before you order, since they won't likely have a clue which is which.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Ecky » Dec 06 2017 2:08pm

My apologies, I saw a post ealier in the thread which mentioned they had a "freewheeling cassette", and thought to ask about it. It appeared they were shipping retrofits for putting cassettes onto older cassette-less motors?

Cassette is definitely preferable. I'll make sure to clarify. Seems to me they would benefit from having some "options" on their ordering page, rather than making every motor a one-off.

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cycborg   1 kW

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by cycborg » Dec 06 2017 2:29pm

Ecky wrote:
Dec 06 2017 2:08pm
My apologies, I saw a post ealier in the thread which mentioned they had a "freewheeling cassette", and thought to ask about it. It appeared they were shipping retrofits for putting cassettes onto older cassette-less motors?

Cassette is definitely preferable. I'll make sure to clarify. Seems to me they would benefit from having some "options" on their ordering page, rather than making every motor a one-off.
Splined version for cassette

Threaded version for freewheel

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Ecky » Dec 06 2017 2:31pm

It appears to not be specified when ordering an already-built wheel, so I guess I'll reach out via email.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Dumsterdave » Apr 11 2018 6:04am

Anyone have experience work the "new 2018" hub?

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by cwah » Apr 11 2018 7:04am

Dumsterdave wrote:
Apr 11 2018 6:04am
Anyone have experience work the "new 2018" hub?
Link?
Help me find my stolen electric brompton: http://bit.ly/1a0vbBC and Bosch Sinus B3 http://bit.ly/1eV0WQz

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Dumsterdave » Apr 11 2018 7:55am

cwah wrote:
Apr 11 2018 7:04am
Dumsterdave wrote:
Apr 11 2018 6:04am
Anyone have experience work the "new 2018" hub?
Link?
http://m.leafbike.com/mobile/products_d ... ?ProId=998

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by cwah » Apr 11 2018 1:41pm

Thanks. Looks like efficiency didn't increase with the new hub
Help me find my stolen electric brompton: http://bit.ly/1a0vbBC and Bosch Sinus B3 http://bit.ly/1eV0WQz

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by flat tire » Apr 18 2018 8:03pm

So I burned one of these Leafs out after a few hundred miles of 200 phase amps max, 80 amps @ 80 volts battery. Not sure which winding but it went 60 mph. Running a second motor but of course it's different KV and doesn't go 50+ so it will be necessary to really turn down the phase current unless I want to throw away another $350. :(

Anyone else burn one of these out lately?

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by spinningmagnets » Apr 18 2018 9:08pm

200 phase amps max, 80 amps @ 80 volts battery. Not sure which winding but it went 60 mph
For 60-MPH and 80A X 80V = 6400W, I would go straight to the QS 205/50H V3. It would provide more torque at those input watts, and I suspect it might last the rest of your life...

Even the MXUS Turbo3K would do better than the Leafbike. Here are the widths of the stators (and indicator of magnet power and copper mass)

35mm___Leafbike
45mm___MXUS
50mm___QS 205

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Cowardlyduck   10 MW

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Cowardlyduck » Apr 18 2018 9:48pm

I push my poor little Leaf motor at about 6KW, but I have active fan forced air cooling, Ferro Fluid, and Heat-sinks to shed all the heat when I do crank it up and I do regularly hit 140C before it rapidly cools off.
Most of the time it's cruising at 2-3KW though which the cooling can keep up with and keep temps well below 80C.

If you gonna push a '1500W' motor at 6KW you better be prepared to cool it well. :)

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by flat tire » Apr 19 2018 5:14pm

Yeah I have a QS205 running at 120 volts 150 amps battery. It's faster than the leaf :D

The phase current + low speed trail riding over obstacles is what killed my Leaf not the 6kw. I would rarely use the 6kw anyway. Just in short bursts.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by markz » Apr 24 2018 2:20am

spinningmagnets wrote:
Apr 18 2018 9:08pm

35mm___Leafbike
45mm___MXUS
50mm___QS 205
MXUS has the 5kw motor it is 55H, just another one to check the pricing on is all.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Dumsterdave » Apr 27 2018 5:11pm

Just got a 1500w 5T and a em3ev 18fet controller. I haven't done any controller programming yet... I have a cycle analyst v3, but I only get an odometer reading through the speed sensor on the CA. Can't the hall sensors give me a reading instead? If I run the motor without moving the front wheel I get no speed reading. Also, I have a 14s9p of 30q cells and I only had 48.9v when I tested but I set the CA to 60A and my max speed was only 43kph on 26" rims. This seems way too slow. Is this because the controller needs programming or am I missing something.

My motor also seems to have regen on when I release the throttle. I don't want this... I want to the regen to be activated when I hit the brake instead. I have a magnetic brake cutoff sensor.

What's up? Any help would be greatly appreciated :)

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Dumsterdave » Apr 29 2018 3:41pm

Anyone?

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pwd   100 W

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by pwd » Apr 30 2018 7:46am

Hi Dave,

the hall sensors can give you a reading but the cycle analyst needs to be configured if you have a CA-DPS (with speed sensor). See the manual:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 25#p571345

Your top speed should definitely be more than 43 kph on a 26 inch tire. For reference I also have the 5T leaf and my max speed is around 53 kph @ 52V on a 26 inch tire Here is the simulator:
http://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.ht ... A&cont=C40
Your wheel size may need to be adjusted in the cycle analyst or the default speed percentage (for a 3 speed switch) needs to be set to 100% on the controller. I think it defaults to speed #2.

I had the same experience with regen when I released the throttle, that also needs to be programmed. Look for "SlipChargeMode" in the software. I suggest getting the documentation for the software from em3ev.
Current Build:
Rocky Mountain Element
Magic Pie 4 front + Leafmotor 1500 rear w/ WCEC 18fet
em3ev 14S5P 30Q + 14S6P 25R pack

Old Build:
GIANT ATX 980 w/ Cycle Analyst v2.25
Golden Motor Magic Pie (internal controller) X2
14S3P 15aH: 6X 6S 5000mAh + 3X 2S 5000mAh LiPo packs
My thread: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 5&p=693208

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Dumsterdave » May 10 2018 4:54pm

pwd wrote:
Apr 30 2018 7:46am
Hi Dave,

Your top speed should definitely be more than 43 kph on a 26 inch tire. For reference I also have the 5T leaf and my max speed is around 53 kph @ 52V on a 26 inch tire

Your wheel size may need to be adjusted in the cycle analyst or the default speed percentage (for a 3 speed switch) needs to be set to 100% on the controller. I think it defaults to speed #2.

I had the same experience with regen when I released the throttle, that also needs to be programmed. Look for "SlipChargeMode" in the software. I suggest getting the documentation for the software from em3ev.
I fixed the "slipchargemode" issue and everything is ok on that front. Now I just need to play with the settings on the infineon controller. Would it be possible to get a copy of what you have your settings at?

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by tolkaNo » May 11 2018 11:41pm

Would you guys still get this motor over the Grin M2707RD (currently out of stock though)

The grin has the same 0.35mm laminations and also a weight of only 6.1kg somehow

http://www.ebikes.ca/m2707rd.html

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madin88   100 MW

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by madin88 » May 12 2018 6:37am

tolkaNo wrote:
May 11 2018 11:41pm
Would you guys still get this motor over the Grin M2707RD (currently out of stock though)

The grin has the same 0.35mm laminations and also a weight of only 6.1kg somehow

http://www.ebikes.ca/m2707rd.html
With 27mm stator it is a different power class.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by tolkaNo » May 13 2018 3:12am

Is it worth it to get the 35mm stator and gain an extra kg over the 30mm stator hub?

Is the weight penalty worth the gain for about a 2100w system?

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by spinningmagnets » May 13 2018 8:53am

Is it worth it?...it depends...

If you are using a 1,000W MXUS with the aluminum stator-core, and it is providing the performance that you want while staying cool enough that it isn't in danger of overheating, then...there is no need to upgrade to a heavier or more expensive hubmotor. However, there are clear steps in the sizes and power capabilities of the hubmotors that are readily available.

The biggest problem to figuring out what will work for you is finding an ebike with a power system that is close to what you envision, and then test-riding it on a loop that has similar hills to your intended rides back home.

I always recommend that..in the absence of any specifically stated desires, an ebiker who is new to the hobby should get a system that is capable of more power than you "think" you will need.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by neptronix » May 13 2018 9:31am

Just depends on your power needs.
27mm stator width versus 35mm stator width is a pretty big difference in how much copper, magnet, and steel there is to produce power. Think of it as comparing a 2.7L engine to a 3.5... except in this case, the 2.7L engine is lighter.. but not proportionally lighter.

You can play with ebikes.ca's simulator to bench race both of these motors before you decide what to buy. I agree with spinningmagnets, in that if this is your first kit, it's probably best to buy a larger motor than you think you need. The need for speed usually creeps up on you.
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
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