Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Electric Motors and Controllers
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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by spinningmagnets » May 13 2018 6:08pm

Also, if you buy a low-powered kit and decide you want something with more capabilties, almost nobody will want to buy the low-powered kit from you. If you buy a kit that is more powerful than you want?...you might take a haircut on the price, but...at least you can sell it for something.

Recently Mr Bill was selling a lightly used Edge 1500W motor for $100, and he had three people wanting it the first day.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Dumsterdave » May 15 2018 12:52am

I know this has been discussed in this thread already, but I can't find a definitive answer. I have a leaf motor with preinstslled temp sensor. I also have a CAv3. How do I make them talk?

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by amberwolf » May 15 2018 1:56am

They dont talk, per se. You simply follow the wiring setup from Grin Tech on connecting temperature sensors to the CA, and setting it up for however you want the CA to limit based on temperature (if you do; it doesnt have to limit, it can just read the temperature and display it). The info is on the CA product/info pages on http://ebikes.ca and in Teklektiks UUG (linked on Grins CA page above).

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Allex » May 31 2018 3:16am

Got my magnets unglued on a leafmotor and ferrofluid.
Dont know if they were badly glued or if the ferrofluid did dissolve the glue.

Running 300A phase amps and seeing temperatures over 100C most of the times on this 35mm wide stator so this could be anything really, any of you had the magnets unglued?

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by spinningmagnets » May 31 2018 7:22am

It was the heat. Perhaps clean the inside of the the motor, re-glue the loose magnets with Doctor Bass's recommended glue. Then...sell the hubmotor while it's still running.

For 300A, I'd use the MXUS 3K turbo at a minimum, with ferro fluid. Also, add a temp sensor, and keep the temps below 93C /200F.

If you would prefer to avoid the hassle of breakdowns in the future, I would recommend keeping the internal temps below 160F...

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Allex » May 31 2018 7:40am

Haha, sell while it's still running, I like that.
But I like the weight of it so a heavy mxus is out of the question.
Will reglue the magnets and ride on, copper strands are nice and shiny so why not.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by madin88 » May 31 2018 8:11am

I once had this on a cromotor which was laced with big spokes into a motorcylce rim.
Large pull forces on the magnet ring can deform it, and the glue joint of the magnets could brake.
The problem is the magnets are not bended so there is a gap to the back iron.

I would use some kind liquid steel epoxy. For the cromotor mags i used "UHU Flüssigmetall Epoxy" and it worked well. It is important that you have enough time to put all magnets in place before the glue starts to firm up.


hmm, i wonder if you would notice a decrease in torque if you lower the phase amps from 300A to 250 or even 200A :)
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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Allex » May 31 2018 8:28am

Sure I do, my normal mode has 170A and Boost 300A
There is a ton of diff, and yeah, like you said, the ring itself prolly deform during my abusive rides so a flex epoxy is a go.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by goosenoose » Jun 03 2018 3:30pm

just bought the 20" leafbike rear 1500w conversion kit in 4t and a 50v 20ah em3ev rectangular battery (pf cells) for install on a 8 speed full-suspension downtube folding bike

thinking of what other stuff i need to make it work... thinking i'll need a soldering iron, solder, heat shrink, and hair dryer/heat gun to install the power connector to the controller... i forgot to buy a torque arm zzz. recommendations on a good one for the leaf or if it is necessary at this battery power (provided i tighten the bejesus out of the hub bolts)?

Edit: so torque arm probably not negotiable at this power level... Question is whether I should buy a new controller while I'm at it? Anyone know the quality of typical bundled controllers? (would be planning on ordering torque arm and controller from grin unless Paul gets my message in time and can throw in an order of a torque arm into my battery order)

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by flat tire » Jun 16 2018 6:48pm

Allex wrote:
May 31 2018 3:16am
Running 300A phase amps
With what winding??

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Allex » Jun 17 2018 1:35pm

think it is 5t

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Mask » Jul 01 2018 10:25am

I just ordered this motor and I am extremely new to ebikes. I understand that by using 66v in series RC lipo batteries with a 40 amp controller i could expect to put out 2,640 watts. If i calculated that correctly, I was wondering about what speed this would allow. The battery will be a 10c and 16ah.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by spinningmagnets » Jul 01 2018 11:24am

Here's a repost from the info page:
4T: 631rpm / 48v = 13.16 kv ( measurement by me, adjusted down 1 volt )
5T: 485rpm / 48v = 10.1 kv ( fluxshifter's measurement )
6T: 336rpm / 48v = 7kv ( assumption based on 3kV steps per winding )

Rough idea of 48v speeds in a 26" wheel:
4T: 39mph ( observed )
5T: 30mph ( calculated but not observed )
6T: 21mph ( assumed )
The Kv is roughly how many RPM's you'll get per applied volt, so at 66V the common 5T version would be 726-RPMs.

IF...you mount it in a 26-inch wheel and lift it unloaded to spin in the air, 726-RPMs would be 56-MPH. Any speed over 30-MPH will experience a large effect from wind resistance, so I suspect you'd likely achieve roughly 45-MPH without any aero-fairings (deducting 20%). I may have made an error somewhere in the calcs, but that should give you a rough idea.

"Wheel diameter to speed/RPM chart"
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=16114

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by neptronix » Jul 01 2018 12:27pm

goosenoose wrote:
Jun 03 2018 3:30pm
just bought the 20" leafbike rear 1500w conversion kit in 4t and a 50v 20ah em3ev rectangular battery (pf cells) for install on a 8 speed full-suspension downtube folding bike
Yikes, i had one of those bikes for a moment and couldn't stand how rickety it felt even at pedal speeds. I still have a brand new eZee 20" motor wheel and aimed to do a 30mph build on it, but i abandoned that frame and am still looking for something that can take 20" wheels
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The wheelie machine: 20" Rear Magic Pie II on a Trek 4300 MTB

"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now."- Chinese Proverb

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by tolkaNo » Aug 12 2018 2:12am

With the 1000w motor can you fit a 7 speed on it easily?

Ive got a generic 9c clone so i guess its about 27mm and even that takes a 3mm spacer to fit the 7 speed

Id go with less speeds but pretty much the only freewheel with the 11t is the dnp 7 speed

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by dirt huffer » Aug 16 2018 7:59am

Question for anyone who has replaced their phase wires. What gauge silicone wires were you able to fit through the axle?

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by flat tire » Aug 16 2018 5:37pm

dirt huffer wrote:
Aug 16 2018 7:59am
Question for anyone who has replaced their phase wires. What gauge silicone wires were you able to fit through the axle?
If you want to cram as much wire as possible thru the axle teflon insulation is the way to go. It's much thinner than silicon. Not sure what size you can fit, maybe 10ga. Ebay has the best deals.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by neptronix » Aug 16 2018 11:02pm

Mask wrote:
Jul 01 2018 10:25am
I just ordered this motor and I am extremely new to ebikes. I understand that by using 66v in series RC lipo batteries with a 40 amp controller i could expect to put out 2,640 watts. If i calculated that correctly, I was wondering about what speed this would allow. The battery will be a 10c and 16ah.
You want more power than that.
The fun doesn't start until you hit 4000w. :)
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The wheelie machine: 20" Rear Magic Pie II on a Trek 4300 MTB

"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now."- Chinese Proverb

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by neptronix » Aug 16 2018 11:04pm

tolkaNo wrote:
Aug 12 2018 2:12am
With the 1000w motor can you fit a 7 speed on it easily?
I'd imagine. A 1500w fits a 7 speed freewheel just fine.
Try to avoid getting a DNP. Those freewheels are crap. Jam the biggest chainring you can on the front and go to 13T or whatever it is.
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The wheelie machine: 20" Rear Magic Pie II on a Trek 4300 MTB

"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now."- Chinese Proverb

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Allex » Aug 19 2018 5:12am

Allex wrote:
May 31 2018 3:16am
Got my magnets unglued on a leafmotor and ferrofluid.
Dont know if they were badly glued or if the ferrofluid did dissolve the glue.

Running 300A phase amps and seeing temperatures over 100C most of the times on this 35mm wide stator so this could be anything really, any of you had the magnets unglued?
Got free magnets from leafbikes as one was cracked. Motor is back in Biz, good service from their side!
My theory is that when you run ferro, the overall magnet ring temperature is higher and this means the glue is weaker and loosen its strength.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by pwd » Sep 27 2018 2:27pm

In a quest to max out my performance, I'm trying to get me 12 fet em3ev Infineon controller tuned for mt 5T 1500W Leafbike hub motor. I also have a Magic Pie 4 on the front wheel.

Observations and data:

My battery's BMS will cut out if I hit its 60 amp limit for more than five seconds.
The Magic Pie will draw approximately 26 amps MAX. - I cannot program this controller anymore so the settings are fixed.

I had my Infineon programmed to 40 amps battery current but that was tripping the BMS at WOT from a stop. I've got it programmed to 34.2 amps for the battery current limit and it stays around the 60 amps total battery amps (26 + 34). After playing with the Infineon controller some more, I decided to turn the max battery amps on the Infineon up to 80 amps to see how the leafmotor responded. I also disabled the front motor. To my surprise, I was actually able to pull 80 + amps from the battery for a few seconds before the BMS shut the pack down. Holy crap that was fun. I guess this makes sense because it was under the 5 seconds limit of the BMS. I thought, wouldn't that be awesome if I could get a few seconds of awesome acceleration before the BMS limit kicks in?

From what I understand about programming the Infineon controller, Block Time is supposed to control how long the controller can overshoot the primary/battery current limit. I set the block time to 0 seconds and it doesn't pull more than the 34 battery amps. I set it to 6 seconds and the controller doesn't pull more than the 34 battery amps.

Now for my question:
Isn't the controller supposed to overshoot the set battery current for up the the programmed block time? Is it to do with the performance or the motor (turn count etc..)?
Screenshot_20180927_165422.png
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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by flat tire » Oct 01 2018 4:27pm

Blew my second Leaf 1500. Both times I was around 120C-130C and the motor shits itself when I hit a really jarring bump. Running these temps on smooth surface never was an issue.

It seems like the insulation gets weak at high temp and then can short, maybe to the stator, under physical shock.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by neptronix » Oct 01 2018 5:30pm

I don't know of a motor on the market that is designed to go over 100C internally. You've probably demagnetized the magnets from the jaunt up to 130C. You need a bigger motor because if you're seeing those temps you're also experiencing horrible efficiency from pushing the motor way too hard and it's turning a lot of that power into heat. It's time for a move up to the MXUS 3kW or something similar.


As for the BMS issue above.. your pack is too weak for the output, or the power bus is not up to the job. Block time settings won't fix the issue.. you have no headroom in your battery output. The BMS is probably matched to the capability of the cells themselves which are probably not up to the task if they sag below LVC after 5 seconds.
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The wheelie machine: 20" Rear Magic Pie II on a Trek 4300 MTB

"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now."- Chinese Proverb

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by flat tire » Oct 01 2018 11:52pm

Don't know of a motor that will take 100+? Well then I have two words you will like: Astro Flight. They don't make hub motors tho. You need special magnets, high temp magnet wire, good adhesives. None of which the Chinese are big on. You are right, the Leaf is too small for my use. Swapped it for the 50H.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Cowardlyduck » Oct 02 2018 1:20am

I dunno, I've been using the Leaf for a few years now on 5-6KW with active fan cooling.
Windings routinely get above 130C and yet to have any issues. I have the temp sensor embedded in the windings and have painted them with insulating varnish. I also run Ferro Fluid and have heat sinks.
So yeah, maybe 100C+ is not great on these things stock...but if you pull out all the stops and do every cooling mod available, then they can take it. :lol: 8)

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