Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Electric Motors and Controllers
Balmorhea   10 kW

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Balmorhea » Mar 06 2020 9:47pm

The Toecutter wrote:
Mar 06 2020 12:14am
Thinking of something like a Leafbike motor, but with 0.2 mm laminations, and less mass, perhaps around 7-10 lbs. With the right design, I think peak efficiencies of around 95% are possible without much in the way of added cost, which would allow similar or better peak power when compared to the existing offering from Leafbike that would weigh twice as much.
If it were that cheap and easy, you'd already be able to buy such a thing. The Chinese don't want to buy more material and ship more weight than they have to. I doubt there's that much extra efficiency to be had from thinner laminations, at the speeds hub motors run.

Lightweight, high power motors are temperamental. Keep in mind that no matter how good the peak motor efficiency, every motor starts at 0% and covers the entire range between zero efficiency and whatever its peak efficiency is. Half the motor mass means it burns up twice as fast when it's pushed out of its happy speed and load regime. I'd rather tote a few extra pounds and have a system that is much more fault tolerant.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Hickbeard » Mar 07 2020 6:10am

Just received my leaf motor.

£40 duty to pay to UK.

Paid 24th February
Received 6th March

Not bad all in cost me £440.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Balmorhea » Mar 08 2020 11:34am

Hickbeard wrote:
Mar 07 2020 6:10am
Just received my leaf motor.
Cool, I’m glad to hear that their operation isn’t at a standstill. Did you get the default 5t winding, or another kind?

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Hickbeard   10 W

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Hickbeard » Mar 08 2020 12:41pm

Yeah everything standard.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by transposon » Mar 20 2020 2:56pm

I am in the market for new hub motor and these leaf kits look pretty good.

I am not sure what to get between the 1000W nd the 1500W. I plan on using a 26" wheel on an aluminim MTB. I am on the heavy side at 225lbs and would like to carry a bit of cargo from time to time so maybe 270lbs + bike weight. I would like an average speed of 20-22mph. I want to try and do some long distance trips, so I plan on using a decent amount of pedal assist. I plan on building my own battery.

Thanks.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by spinningmagnets » Mar 20 2020 3:39pm

Due to your weight, I would get the 1500W and add 10ml of ferro fluid.

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ZeroEm   1 kW

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by ZeroEm » Mar 20 2020 5:40pm

Don't feel heavy, 260 lb man + 35 lb battery and motor + 42 lb trike not counting other things like water tools and tubes lighting system ect....
1500w leafmotor 5ml of FF can cruse at 28 mph no issues.
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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by transposon » Mar 21 2020 11:35pm

Thanks for the input everyone. I think I am going to get the 1500W version in order to be able to pull some cargo. In order to get up and running, I think I am going to get one of the kits. I am confused on the top speeds listed for the kits. I assume they are are dependent on the winding, but of 2 kits with presumably the same motor, I am seeing different speeds listed.

https://www.leafbike.com/products/diy-b ... t-987.html
This one has speeds of 45.2, 35, 25, 15 mph.

https://www.leafbike.com/products/diy-b ... -1181.html
This one lists 42, 37.5, 30, 25, 20, 15 mph.

I am confused how presumably the same motor has different speeds depending on the kit purchased. Also, any recommendations for a setup that is good for an average of 20-22mph with the capability of ~30mph thrill rides once in a while? I plan on building a 14S battery.

Thanks.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by ZeroEm » Mar 22 2020 5:54am

by transposon » Mar 21 2020 11:35pm

Thanks for the input everyone. I think I am going to get the 1500W version in order to be able to pull some cargo. In order to get up and running, I think I am going to get one of the kits. I am confused on the top speeds listed for the kits. I assume they are are dependent on the winding, but of 2 kits with presumably the same motor, I am seeing different speeds listed.

https://www.leafbike.com/products/diy-b ... t-987.html
This one has speeds of 45.2, 35, 25, 15 mph.

https://www.leafbike.com/products/diy-b ... -1181.html
This one lists 42, 37.5, 30, 25, 20, 15 mph.

I am confused how presumably the same motor has different speeds depending on the kit purchased. Also, any recommendations for a setup that is good for an average of 20-22mph with the capability of ~30mph thrill rides once in a while? I plan on building a 14S battery.

Thanks.
Don't trust the web pages 100%.
Go to https://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.h ... heel=27.5i
figure out what battery can do what you want then get a little more if possible.

Leafbike will change the winding of the leafmotor (blackmagic) to alter the speed of the motor.
Add in the wheel size you plan on running.

Play with the MOTOR SIMULATOR it will be close if not on the money so trust it.

I decided to get the 7T and it does what I wanted. Now I want a 6T.
I use a 72V 25AH battery with a 80 amp bms but have it limited to continuous amps, 36 amps. here a link to my setup.

https://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.h ... &grade=0.5

If you compare the two links the speeds are close to the same. But they get there differently.
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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by transposon » Apr 21 2020 7:02pm

Thanks for all of the help everyone. I purchased a 5T 1500W motor.

I am now trying to figure out the appropriate controller for this motor. I am having trouble understanding the motor simulator.

Can someone give me a general recommendation on a controller that would allow me to cruise at ~25mph at 52V? Would a 12fet 40A controller due the trick? It would be a 26" MTB. Or would I need to step up to something that can put out more current?

I was planning on getting a cheap 12fet controller to tide me over until I can get my hands on one of the Nucular controllers.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Balmorhea » Apr 22 2020 4:26am

transposon wrote:
Apr 21 2020 7:02pm
Thanks for all of the help everyone. I purchased a 5T 1500W motor.

I am now trying to figure out the appropriate controller for this motor. I am having trouble understanding the motor simulator.

Can someone give me a general recommendation on a controller that would allow me to cruise at ~25mph at 52V?
You got too fast a winding if all you want is 25 mph cruise. The motor you got wants to cruise that fast on 36V.

Also, why didn’t you get a controller from Leaf while you were at it? Then you wouldn’t have to sort out wire assignments, reconcile plugs, etc. You can still do that.

Your motor is intended for a controller that delivers 35-40A maximum. It will happily accept more or less current than that, but 35A to 40A is what makes it a nominally 1500W motor. If you get a KT controller with a programmable display, you can configure the throttle to conform to the PAS level, which will give you 5 different maxImum throttle settings to choose from. At any time, one of those (I’m guessing 2?) will level off at about 25 mph.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by transposon » Apr 22 2020 7:24am

Balmorhea wrote:
Apr 22 2020 4:26am
transposon wrote:
Apr 21 2020 7:02pm
Thanks for all of the help everyone. I purchased a 5T 1500W motor.

I am now trying to figure out the appropriate controller for this motor. I am having trouble understanding the motor simulator.

Can someone give me a general recommendation on a controller that would allow me to cruise at ~25mph at 52V?
You got too fast a winding if all you want is 25 mph cruise. The motor you got wants to cruise that fast on 36V.

Also, why didn’t you get a controller from Leaf while you were at it? Then you wouldn’t have to sort out wire assignments, reconcile plugs, etc. You can still do that.

Your motor is intended for a controller that delivers 35-40A maximum. It will happily accept more or less current than that, but 35A to 40A is what makes it a nominally 1500W motor. If you get a KT controller with a programmable display, you can configure the throttle to conform to the PAS level, which will give you 5 different maxImum throttle settings to choose from. At any time, one of those (I’m guessing 2?) will level off at about 25 mph.
I wanted to be able to hit ~30 mph for fun once in a while. For longer distances, I want to stay around 22-25mph.

I plan on using a KT controller for now, but from a different vendor. I just want to make sure that I can maintain ~25mph continuous without blowing a cheap 12fet KT controller.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by ZeroEm » Apr 22 2020 9:35am

by transposon » Apr 22 2020 7:24am

I am now trying to figure out the appropriate controller for this motor. I am having trouble understanding the motor simulator.

I wanted to be able to hit ~30 mph for fun once in a while. For longer distances, I want to stay around 22-25mph.

I plan on using a KT controller for now, but from a different vendor. I just want to make sure that I can maintain ~25mph continuous without blowing a cheap 12fet KT controller.
52V @ 40 amps should do you <= 2000 watts. The leafmotor does well at this power level, level ground, small hills.
Here is a link to the config.
https://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.h ... T&axis=mph
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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by 2old » Apr 22 2020 10:11am

Should achieve 30+ mph easily with a 26" tire at 52/40. My YESCOM "1000w" motor (don't know the winding, but it must be "fast") easily goes 33 mph at 52/30; 180 pound rider, 55 pound bike, flat terrain, no wind; upright seating position on a MTB.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by transposon » Apr 22 2020 6:00pm

ZeroEm wrote:
Apr 22 2020 9:35am
by transposon » Apr 22 2020 7:24am

I am now trying to figure out the appropriate controller for this motor. I am having trouble understanding the motor simulator.

I wanted to be able to hit ~30 mph for fun once in a while. For longer distances, I want to stay around 22-25mph.

I plan on using a KT controller for now, but from a different vendor. I just want to make sure that I can maintain ~25mph continuous without blowing a cheap 12fet KT controller.
52V @ 40 amps should do you <= 2000 watts. The leafmotor does well at this power level, level ground, small hills.
Here is a link to the config.
https://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.h ... T&axis=mph
Thanks for the link ZeroEm,

I have a general question about the simulator. According to the power curve, I will be using 40 battery amps when I hit 25mph. I am assuming that this power draw is at the instant that I hit that speed and while using a speed/voltage based throttle. Once I stop accelerating, the draw should reduce considerably. Is that correct? I don't think the controller I have in mind can handle 40A continuous.
Last edited by transposon on Apr 22 2020 6:09pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by transposon » Apr 22 2020 6:05pm

2old wrote:
Apr 22 2020 10:11am
Should achieve 30+ mph easily with a 26" tire at 52/40. My YESCOM "1000w" motor (don't know the winding, but it must be "fast") easily goes 33 mph at 52/30; 180 pound rider, 55 pound bike, flat terrain, no wind; upright seating position on a MTB.
Good to know. I had a similar 1000W hub kit before rain got in and seized the motor. It would hit close to 30mph at 26A (controller max), but it just took forever to get there.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Jenming » Apr 22 2020 7:17pm


Thanks for the link ZeroEm,

I have a general question about the simulator. According to the power curve, I will be using 40 battery amps when I hit 25mph. I am assuming that this power draw is at the instant that I hit that speed and while using a speed/voltage based throttle. Once I stop accelerating, the draw should reduce considerably. Is that correct? I don't think the controller I have in mind can handle 40A continuous.
Check the auto throttle box to see the energy at that speed. You're looking at the full throttle energy - that is full acceleration at 25mph.

Should read the full page of instructions for the Sim.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by transposon » Apr 22 2020 10:05pm

Jenming wrote:
Apr 22 2020 7:17pm

Thanks for the link ZeroEm,

I have a general question about the simulator. According to the power curve, I will be using 40 battery amps when I hit 25mph. I am assuming that this power draw is at the instant that I hit that speed and while using a speed/voltage based throttle. Once I stop accelerating, the draw should reduce considerably. Is that correct? I don't think the controller I have in mind can handle 40A continuous.
Check the auto throttle box to see the energy at that speed. You're looking at the full throttle energy - that is full acceleration at 25mph.

Should read the full page of instructions for the Sim.
Ah, ok. That helps a lot. I will read over the instructions again.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by ZeroEm » Apr 23 2020 9:08am

E-bikes are great, you can adjust the bike and your riding habits to get what you want with in reason.

The motor simulator is a great tool, you play with different motors with different controllers and wheel sizes with out spending money.

Nothing is simple, with that said; amps take off power, volts speed. want more range out of your battery slow down, keep it 32 kph or 24 kph is better. My pas level one, I can get 9 watts per km @ 24 kph. But if I want speed and no peddle can use 20-30 w/km.

So you can build a fast bike and drive it slow.
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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Username1 » Apr 27 2020 9:21pm

Is the 1500w available with 3t winding? How can i check the top speed in various voltages, i only see the 5t in the simulator.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by ZeroEm » Apr 28 2020 7:43am

by Username1 » Apr 27 2020 9:21pm
Is the 1500w available with 3t winding? How can i check the top speed in various voltages, i only see the 5t in the simulator.
Need to read up on neptronix, I know he wanted 3T but think it was the 1000w leafmotor version.
At leafbike they sell the motor as 48V then offer different speeds of that motor. to change the speed they change the winding.

In the simulator there is advanced user options. you will see a link (SHOW ADVANCED) right under Throttle. This will open up three more options. The one Custom Kv rpm/V this is the result of the winding in your motor. When you select the leaf 35mm 5T you get 10.49 rpm per Volt. For my 7T leafmotor it is 6.33 Kv. Now you can guess that it is 2.? rpm per turn but would call it close but not completely correct. If you buy the motor you can check this. Just to have a look of what 3T might do then try. 14.78 rpm/V like
https://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.h ... n&kv=14.78
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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Balmorhea » Apr 28 2020 10:37pm

ZeroEm wrote:
Apr 23 2020 9:08am
So you can build a fast bike and drive it slow.
Yes, but you sacrifice both torque and efficiency versus building a slow bike (all else equal) and driving it slow.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by ZeroEm » Apr 29 2020 6:58pm

My trike will go 31 mph have it limited to 28 mph/45 kph thought that was the legal limit. It will pull the biggest hill around my area at 20 mph (no mountains around here), my trike averages 9w/km per CA3.

https://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.h ... =0&kv=6.33

Thats a link to my setup, my battery is a couple amps bigger. 25 ah but I have two but only use one both would be 50 ah.

Not sure what I am giving up. I ride to stores, banks and across town at speed. Mostly I ride with others on the slow side and ride a city greenway bike trails below 15 mph for exercise.

In a month will be changing out the motor for a 5T and see how that goes.

So what would you change.
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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by markz » May 09 2020 4:27pm

I checked Leafbike's shipping last week, it was reasonable $115usd, today I just checked it again and its now $260usd just for shipping.
Choose Shipping Methods:
Standard Air Transport / $261.00 ( Parcel Weight: 12.300 KG )
It takes about 5 - 7 business days to deliver - By air ( Shipping Price: First 0.50 KG : $57.00 / 0.50 KG : $8.50 )

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by cheeko » May 11 2020 6:33am

Hi all you lovely people.

I'm thinking downgrading my Mxus 3k no issue it's great and quick but I want to ride more without only motor help so thought leaf 35mm with 5 or 6. Less hassle with frame and brakes.

Now what are people recommendations
Current battery:- 20S7P 105amp
26 inch wheels.
Futr Beta frame (Stealth P7)

What's max amps I can run motor at also what is best wind, I will first upgrade phase wires also anyone using 13/14G spokes I'd rather not drill out another rim to fit 12G.

Also is leave best place to get I'm sure all 1500w motors prob same inside.

Thanks guys for you help
20S7P Futr Beta 26" Mxus3k with the Unbelievable Nucular 12F

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