New Kelly pseudo FOC controller series

Electric Motors and Controllers
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riba2233   1 MW

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Re: New Kelly FOC controller series

Post by riba2233 » Jan 06 2016 11:54am

Just limit motor current in settings! :) But if your controller is overrated for motor it wont heat, so don't worry about waterproofing.

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Re: New Kelly FOC controller series

Post by cwah » Jan 18 2016 9:01pm

I have a new problem with my kelly controller today.

It was working fine yesterday, but today when I connect my android phone to the controller i have the message "open device failed" then "open flash failed"

Any idea what that means? I rebooted and it still has the same problem. Wiring seems ok.
Help me find my stolen electric brompton: http://bit.ly/1a0vbBC and Bosch Sinus B3 http://bit.ly/1eV0WQz

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Re: New Kelly FOC controller series

Post by fany » Jan 30 2016 1:59am

Here is the correct operation steps for identification angle function.

It is for 8080I/IPS controller.
1,Please connect 12V-24V to pin7 and pin6.Pin7 is positive and pin6 is GND.
pin7 and pin6 is the isolated power supply for KLS-8080I/IPS controller.

2,Please connect the motor phase cables to U,V,W.Please connect hall sensors connector to the controller.

3,Please connect the batteries to B+ and B- of the controller.

4,Please connect the throttle wires to the motor controller.

5,Please connect the USB cable and 4pin connector to RS232 converter between controller and user program.

6,Please double click the KLS user program.

7,You will see the first picture of user program.

8,Please read the identification angle value.It is good if it is at 85.

9,Please fill 170 in the identification angle item.And please click the write button.Please turn off the power supply.

10,Please turn on the power supply after the power supply is off for a few seconds.The controller will send a constant beep sound.If you get a KLS-S controller,the LED will be solid on in this case.

11,Please wait about 2-3 minters.

12,If the identification is finished,the constant beep sound or solid Red LED will be disappeared.And you will see reset error in the monitor screen.

13,Please turn off the power supply again.Please wait about a few seconds to turn on the power supply again.

14,You will see 85 in the identification angle item.That is to say,the controller identification angle operation is successful.You can use the controller to drive the motor now.

15,If the constant beep sound last above 5 minters,please return the first picture of user program.Please write 85 instead by manual.
Please don't keep 170 in the identification angle item in this case.
And please turn off the power supply in this case.
Please try again from step 6.

16,Please don't keep 170 in identification angle item before power supply is turned on after the identification operation is successful.



It is for KLS-S/D controller.
1,Please connect Battery Voltage for pin7 and B+/B-.

2,Please connect the motor phase cables to U,V,W.Please connect hall sensors connector to the controller.

3,Please connect the batteries to B+ and B- of the controller.

4,Please connect the throttle wires to the motor controller.

5,Please connect the USB cable and 4pin connector to RS232 converter between controller and user program.

6,Please double click the KLS user program.

7,You will see the first picture of user program.

8,Please read the identification angle value.It is good if it is at 85.

9,Please fill 170 in the identification angle item.And please click the write button.Please turn off the power supply.

10,Please turn on the power supply after the power supply is off for a few seconds.The controller will send a constant beep sound.If you get a KLS-S controller,the LED will be solid on in this case.

11,Please wait about 2-3 minters.

12,If the identification is finished,the constant beep sound or solid Red LED will be disappeared.And you will see reset error in the monitor screen.

13,Please turn off the power supply again.Please wait about a few seconds to turn on the power supply again.

14,You will see 85 in the identification angle item.That is to say,the controller identification angle operation is successful.You can use the controller to drive the motor now.

15,If the constant beep sound last above 5 minters,please return the first picture of user program.Please write 85 instead by manual.
Please don't keep 170 in the identification angle item in this case.
And please turn off the power supply in this case.
Please try again from step 6.

16,Please don't keep 170 in identification angle item before power supply is turned on after the identification operation is successful.

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Merlin   1 MW

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Re: New Kelly FOC controller series

Post by Merlin » Jan 30 2016 2:16pm

setting up my first Kelly....

tried every step....but my controller doesnt beep.....LED is green.
everything ok?

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izeman   10 GW

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Re: New Kelly FOC controller series

Post by izeman » Jan 30 2016 2:30pm

Merlin wrote:setting up my first Kelly....

tried every step....but my controller doesn't beep.....LED is green.
everything ok?
which controller do you have? kls-s doesn't beep. LED only. during auto setup both LEDs (green/red) are constantly on. once auto config is finished successfully green goes out and red starts to blink.

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Merlin   1 MW

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Re: New Kelly FOC controller series

Post by Merlin » Jan 30 2016 3:08pm

ok....just the mistake between 2 ears....

big white connectors wasnt "clicked".....

so motor spins.....


but.....why i can hear some pwm sounds?! and the throttle is "speed" and not trq.....

*trying some settings now*

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izeman   10 GW

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Re: New Kelly FOC controller series

Post by izeman » Jan 31 2016 3:09am

How do you know the kind of throttle operation?

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Merlin   1 MW

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Re: New Kelly FOC controller series

Post by Merlin » Jan 31 2016 6:05am

I remember the old Kelly's had an option between torque und speed throttle operation.
But this Kelly kls software has no option.

A real trq throttle will spin your wheel up to full throttle/max speed (no load) when you give just a tiny bit of throttle.
Like ;
2 percent throttle with no load your motor spins "slowly" up to full speed.

Speed throttle:
10 percent throttle = 10 percent speed
25....... = 25....
50....... = 50....
Etc....

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izeman   10 GW

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Re: New Kelly FOC controller series

Post by izeman » Jan 31 2016 12:18pm

No such option here. Correct. I guess those controllers all operate in torque throttle mode, or at least a mixed mode. I can test that, but i'm on vacation for a week now.

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Re: New Kelly FOC controller series

Post by izeman » Feb 14 2016 2:56pm

fyi: today i had a little spare time and tried connecting my android tablet to the kelly controller.
took a cheap hc-06 bt module. connected it to the rx/tx/gnd/vcc of the controller's connector, hit "connect" on the android app and it just worked.
very convenient if you're on the road and tuning the controller. unfortunately you have to reboot the controller to make the changes happen, so you have to reconnect bt etc ...
but it works :)

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mistercrash   10 kW

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Re: New Kelly FOC controller series

Post by mistercrash » Feb 27 2016 9:26pm

I have the KLS7250D in my scooter. Yesterday, the motor stopped working a hundred feet from my house after a 2 km ride from work so I pushed it home. I went in the house, had supper and came back to the scooter to find out what happened. I turn the system on and the motor works again. There's no error message showing in the software. Before supper I checked and the battery was still full of juice, the controller was not hot or even warm. The motor was not hot or even warm (but that is irrelevant as there is no thermistor in that motor). So I don't know what caused the scooter to stop, and if I don't know what happened, I can't prevent it from happening again. Anyone have their Kelly shut down for no good reason for a few minutes? I'm assuming it's the controller that shut down. Fany? You there? An explanation per chance?

Thanks
Ray
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bowlofsalad   1 MW

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Re: New Kelly FOC controller series

Post by bowlofsalad » Feb 27 2016 10:34pm

Can these controllers do sensored start and sensorless operation?

Can these controllers sensorless start and sensorless operation?

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izeman   10 GW

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Re: New Kelly FOC controller series

Post by izeman » Feb 28 2016 9:25am

bowlofsalad wrote:Can these controllers do sensored start and sensorless operation?

Can these controllers sensorless start and sensorless operation?
No. They can't. It's always sensored.

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riba2233   1 MW

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Re: New Kelly FOC controller series

Post by riba2233 » Feb 28 2016 9:35am

mistercrash wrote:I have the KLS7250D in my scooter. Yesterday, the motor stopped working a hundred feet from my house after a 2 km ride from work so I pushed it home. I went in the house, had supper and came back to the scooter to find out what happened. I turn the system on and the motor works again. There's no error message showing in the software. Before supper I checked and the battery was still full of juice, the controller was not hot or even warm. The motor was not hot or even warm (but that is irrelevant as there is no thermistor in that motor). So I don't know what caused the scooter to stop, and if I don't know what happened, I can't prevent it from happening again. Anyone have their Kelly shut down for no good reason for a few minutes? I'm assuming it's the controller that shut down. Fany? You there? An explanation per chance?

Thanks
Ray

Next time it happens try checking error code right away, I don't know it they still have red led's on them.

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Re: New Kelly FOC controller series

Post by bowlofsalad » Feb 28 2016 12:56pm

izeman wrote:No. They can't. It's always sensored.
Thanks for the response. How I understand it is the way FOC works is that it mostly uses the sensorless measurement back electrocmagnetic field (BEMF) for motor commutation. BEMF is supposed to be a very accurate and faster way to get rotor position. But, if a controller isn't using BEMF then maybe there is a possibility it isn't an FOC controller. I've learned to be wary of the statements made by marketing folks and that many of them are simply lies, lots of controllers claimed to be FOC are just a sine wave simulation, bleh.

The reason or advantage to using sensored start with hall sensors is when there is zero motion within the motor there is zero BEMF to read, so from a start sensorless isn't great. I don't know why a FOC controller would be stated to constantly require sensors for motor operation.

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izeman   10 GW

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Re: New Kelly FOC controller series

Post by izeman » Feb 29 2016 4:08am

you're totally right. it could be that my information is wrong, but this is what fany told me. could be that language barriers (a chinese and a german/austrian writing in english) left some information behind.

this is fany's comment quoted, answering the question if the controller is all sensored or not:
Our controller is always based on FOC control from starting.
But the starting FOC is discrete.After speed up,the FOC is continuous type.
so IF it's FOC from the start: why does it need halls? imho it's hard start smoothly if you rely on BEMF which is not existant from a 0 rpm motor?! so i assume it needs halls all the time.

correct me if i'm wrong.

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mistercrash   10 kW

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Re: New Kelly FOC controller series

Post by mistercrash » Mar 01 2016 11:11am

riba2233 wrote:
mistercrash wrote:I have the KLS7250D in my scooter. Yesterday, the motor stopped working a hundred feet from my house after a 2 km ride from work so I pushed it home. I went in the house, had supper and came back to the scooter to find out what happened. I turn the system on and the motor works again. There's no error message showing in the software. Before supper I checked and the battery was still full of juice, the controller was not hot or even warm. The motor was not hot or even warm (but that is irrelevant as there is no thermistor in that motor). So I don't know what caused the scooter to stop, and if I don't know what happened, I can't prevent it from happening again. Anyone have their Kelly shut down for no good reason for a few minutes? I'm assuming it's the controller that shut down. Fany? You there? An explanation per chance?

Thanks
Ray

Next time it happens try checking error code right away, I don't know it they still have red led's on them.
It happened again and I was able to go see in the software. No errors recorded. I was twisting the throttle, the software was showing the throttle input but the motor would not spin. I spent a couple minutes moving wires around to see if all connections were as they should and after that all was working well. So it's not the controller this time, I will have to sit down and check every connection that could cause this because there is one that is bad.

Thanks
Ray
Send $10 at paypal.me/Ray1964 and you will be in my thoughts and prayers.

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jansevr   1 kW

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Re: New Kelly FOC controller series

Post by jansevr » Mar 01 2016 11:59am

I remember having issues on a 2010 zero s alltrax controller. It ended up being in the throttle because it was potentiometer based and not hall sensor so the throttle wire needed to be shielded to get the proper resistance without interference. Not sure what kind of throttle you are using but throttle is the first place i would check. Try checking with a spare throttle if you have one

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Merlin   1 MW

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Re: New Kelly FOC controller series

Post by Merlin » Mar 02 2016 6:49am

got that info from fany....

KLS Series have no Torque throttle....JUST SPEED.
no need to say: that sucks alot :roll:

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Re: New Kelly FOC controller series

Post by izeman » Mar 02 2016 7:07am

Merlin wrote:got that info from fany....

KLS Series have no Torque throttle....JUST SPEED.
no need to say: that sucks alot :roll:
hmmm. i'm not sure if that really is a problem. i can not say that the throttle response of a KBS is and better than of the KLS series. they both have a very nice controllable throttle that is 100x better than any xie-chang controller.
there is a big difference between KBS torque and speed throttle, but the KBS torque throttle is like KLS throttle. very smooth.
i can stop my bike in front of an obstacle and slowly add throttle until there is enough torque to ride over it. i can accelerate w/o lifting the front wheel on any steep hill that is still rideable.
so no problem here.

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Merlin   1 MW

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Re: New Kelly FOC controller series

Post by Merlin » Mar 02 2016 7:56am

if you come from a real trq throttle it sucks alot.

if your speed range goes from 0-45kph.
rolling down a hill with 30kph.....to accelerate now, you have to turn the throttle 2/3 of its way(dead band now) to get "more throttle"

but yes, for THIS speed throttle it is quite better then the xiechang crap.
Can you find ANY REAL reason for a manufacturer like kelly who has YEAAAARS of experience with controllers
to bring out a new series with less features?
or the "firmware not updateable thing".....

did you get variable reku working?....atm iam not able to get it running.

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izeman   10 GW

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Re: New Kelly FOC controller series

Post by izeman » Mar 02 2016 8:11am

you're completely right. it's a draw back. but i can live with that.
making the controller not upgrade able is just plain stupid. on the other hand kelly was never very much improving their firmware over the product's live cylce. one or two updates and that's it.

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Merlin   1 MW

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Re: New Kelly FOC controller series

Post by Merlin » Mar 02 2016 8:28am

my gf HAVE also to live with it....she never know or rode longer with a trq throttle.
me 2 rode speed throttles for 2 years...possible sure.iam still alive....BUT.... :wink:

can you send me a pm how do you wire your regen? if this bitch cant do it variable, i would like to have regen at all....

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Re: New Kelly FOC controller series

Post by izeman » Mar 02 2016 8:56am

what software version do you have? imho there has been some changes between 0106001 and 01050001.

fany told me:

0105 has NO analog regen brake mode.And motor temp and brake use the same pin on pin1.
so it's temperature or brake, but not both.

but there seem to be hardware differences between controllers, so you kelly can flash different firmware on different cable layouts, which then provide different feature sets.

this makes things a bit complicated.

normally i would have said: connect pin(25) yellow to pin(11) red and this should engage regen.
you can change the amount of regen by setting parameter BRK_SW up to 50%.
motor temp sensor needs to be set to 0 imho.

ps. i don't use regen, i have this installed on a freewheeled middrive.

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Re: New Kelly FOC controller series

Post by Merlin » Mar 02 2016 9:19am

i have the 010600001 Software Version.

Bought this year. As i read here, after Dez 15 there are only 0106 Software/Firmware controllers out.

My Settings:

(wiring i have to check at home again) but atm i have set up as it means in the manual incl a 2nd throttle for variable brake.


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