Are the ADAPTTO kit $$$ as people think....?

Doctorbass

Doctorbass

100 GW
Joined
Apr 8, 2007
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Quebec, Canada East
I often see people saying that these great Adaptto kit are expensive relative to the other controllers options.

Personally i dont think so and i want to share with you guys how i endout thinking that Adaptto IS and should be the best choice in most case:

Let's compare two situations for a 6kW controller:

Case A:
6kW controller 6kW ( 12fets extreme 4110) good quality and well documented: 150$
Cycle Analyst 150$
Shunt 25$
1kW charger( not a power supply) : 225$
programming cable: 30$

+time loss for matching everything together

total: 575$usd

Case B:
Adaptto 6kW(Including multiline display, integrated and calibrated already shunt, no need of programing cable) : 435$
Power supply 48v 1kW( server) :75$ ( the adaptto manage the charge process)
Charge coil: 30$

+everything is made to match together and well documented
+ Very compact controller !!
+ easy tunning and setting with live display anywher eyou are and no need to bring a PC with you!

Total: 540$usd

As well my exemple for the price might vary a bit but in final it remain more advantagous to get the Adaptto.


And More: .. now include in the equation/comparaison the Advanced programmable flexible compact BMS that can display data to the main screen and it's an easy win! that BMS dont need 1kg of mosfet/heatsink to manage 160A batt current! it is simple and reliable!


Just think twice before thinking it's expensive... :wink:

Doc
 
Absolutely agree Doc! The total package works out to be significantly less.

To add to your comments here not only are you potentially saving money across all these items - you will likely only have to purchase them once. These forums are flooded with stories of controllers and chargers failing. If you do experience issues with your Adaptto the vendor definitely do stand behind their product with support and repairs. I have been running my very early purchase Adaptto mini-e now for 20 months on a near daily basis with charger and BMS functionality, now running unlocked firmware with big heatsink it is pushing 7kw with perfect reliability. Contrast that with continuous failures of my Lyen controller within only a few weeks.
 
Doc, here is my math:

Adapto midi 300A:
http://adaptto.com/Products/Controllers/
http://vectorebike.com/orders/componencts.html

609usd



Kelly 300A:
http://kellycontroller.com/kls7230s24v-72v300asinusoidal-brushless-motor-controller-p-1343.html
209usd

Wattmeter 100V 100A:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC-6-5-100V-100A-LCD-Combo-Panel-Meter-Voltage-Power-Monitor-current-KWh-watt-/111769008914?hash=item1a05f3bb12:g:9JkAAOSwEetV8SKs
15usd

Total:
224usd.

Already got the power supply so no worries in both case.



Adaptto is 3 times more expensive, repair in case of failure also very expensive and in my case I can as well buy another controller if it cost 209usd. The other thing that is actually really putting me off is that it can't work without LCD. Living in london, I got my bike randomly pushed few times on the floor just by people walking by when the bike was parked. All my LCD screens broke (I had 4) and 1 got stolen.

So it's a no brainer, 3 times cheaper, more reliable, no risk of damaged screen (or stolen). Only the size and FOC is toward adaptto, but I'm more than happy not to have that as trade off.
 
if it had a well working PAS function, i would think more about the Adaptto. but as it seems to be just on/off, i have no other choice than using a CA anyway. So i have to do all the wiring myself anyway and can stick to a cheap $150 Kelly FOC controller, that does the same 4kW peak the 6Fet adapto does

I also dont like the idea to use a server PSU as charger in my flooded garage. Better stick to a fan-less waterproof Meanwell that does CC-CV operation to directly charge Li-Ion and comes with 7 years warranty http://www.meanwell.com/product/led/LED.html
 
I was going to get the adaptto but I want to store and charge the battery indoors. Maybe I could mount the power systems on a detachable structure...
 
well documented in regards to the adaptto is only for fairly standard hub motors. Go for anything high speed like a mid drive etc or something abit different and its alot harder to setup and get right. Adaptto is going to have a bit of competition with recent controllers coming out with bluetooth display and programing. The BMS is still great tho but cheap standalone units can be used in creative ways to work well.
 
Bluefang said:
well documented in regards to the adaptto is only for fairly standard hub motors. Go for anything high speed like a mid drive etc or something abit different and its alot harder to setup and get right. Adaptto is going to have a bit of competition with recent controllers coming out with bluetooth display and programing. The BMS is still great tho but cheap standalone units can be used in creative ways to work well.
Click to expand...
but unfortunately that same goes for the kelly FOC. my experience is, that FOC controllers are super cool if they works ootb (more or less), but they are a PITA to configure if your motor is special in any way. here the adaptto may win as it has more config options. but even with a lot of options you're sometimes out of luck :(
 
There is also always the option to buy a (plug in ready) Pedelec in a supermarket like Aldi for dirt cheap. :D
Its also even compliant with the visions from the politicians on how teh electric-bike has to be.... :)
 
crossbreak said:
I also dont like the idea to use a server PSU as charger in my flooded garage. Better stick to a fan-less waterproof Meanwell that does CC-CV operation to directly charge Li-Ion and comes with 7 years warranty http://www.meanwell.com/product/led/LED.html
Click to expand...

Ah I like debate like that. This thread is the perfect place to make people better understand the great features the adaptto have and that people dont know about or have wrong info about it !

The Adaptto can transform ANY power supply into CC-CV, In fact one of the phase of the Adaptto output stage is used as CC-CV controller with PWM and an external coil. This make the perfect flexible solution and increase by an infinite factor the number of power supply you can use with it ! In fact it will convert to the voltage of your battery too !
It is way more stable and safe than many actual ebike charger. In fact the only job the power supply does is supply power that's it. The rest of the CC-CV is made by the Adaptto. .. so now you want to run 22s but only have on of your old 24V or 36V first ebike charger? no prob it will work!

Plus the BMS is also VERY accurate! you can monitor wach cell group in real time and see if you have bad apple when you draw full power!... It also record the max power and also display the RI of your battery! In fact that's a great real time disgnostic of your battery!

Doc
 
Here is what i think about the Adaptto:

When you get one you are so amazed by all the features and performances than it's like when people buy an electric car and discoverd that they should have not waited so long to get one!

Doc
 
diff_lock said:
I was going to get the adaptto but I want to store and charge the battery indoors. Maybe I could mount the power systems on a detachable structure...
Click to expand...


Yes you can! you can leave the BMS on the battery and use the 4 pin connector to detache or attach it to the controller harness. pretty easy.

I am doing that on my NYX :wink:

Doc
 
Doc you say that with adapto you are saving money, can you tell us how you "saved" money with it?
- You sent your adaptto for replacement
- Now that adaptto has upgraded to bigger power, I'd guess you'll have to replace them and buy again???

And surely as tech evolve, controller power evolve too. I'd guess that within a year you'd want more power and buy something at higher power/voltage than what you have?

Adaptto is limited to 90V, surely you'd want to increase voltage at some stage? And potentially power too as 350A max-e isn't that high???
 
Doctorbass said:
diff_lock said:
I was going to get the adaptto but I want to store and charge the battery indoors. Maybe I could mount the power systems on a detachable structure...
Click to expand...


Yes you can! you can leave the BMS on the battery and use the 4 pin connector to detache or attach it to the controller harness. pretty easy.

I am doing that on my NYX :wink:

Doc
Click to expand...


But I still need to charge indoors so the whole system needs come off with the battery controller and all. At the moment I just carry the battery and charger to and from the scooter.
 
cwah said:
Doc you say that with adapto you are saving money, can you tell us how you "saved" money with it?
- You sent your adaptto for replacement
- Now that adaptto has upgraded to bigger power, I'd guess you'll have to replace them and buy again???

And surely as tech evolve, controller power evolve too. I'd guess that within a year you'd want more power and buy something at higher power/voltage than what you have?

Adaptto is limited to 90V, surely you'd want to increase voltage at some stage? And potentially power too as 350A max-e isn't that high???
Click to expand...


Cwah, I never said you "save" money.. I just explain that overall you pay about the same price as other kits.. except that the Adaptto end out to have more features and that every parts match together already so no need to mess with wirring and compatibility.

The new bigger power is a new version of the controller with improovement to the fets driver design and some other to the main PCB. if someone want to upgrade to the new controller these can be bought seperatly as all standard ebike kit can. I have the higher power version installed on the NYX.

This is nice that Adaptto can improove their kit over teh years... as well as also adding or ameliorating new features with the firmware.

No need for higher voltage and more complex battery. 90V is already enough. that's not teh voltage that matter but the power :wink: ... the 100V fet are the optimum size vs current vs low heat loss on all controller.. this is like the fammous debate about the 4115 or the 4110... the 4110 give you more power per fet than the 4115.... dont forget that Adaptto are using the IRFB4468 fets witch are 1.9 miliohm insteaf of 3.9 miliohm like the 4110.. that mean 2 time less power dissipated. to get more power you just need higher current. Some people on the forum use 48V and get above 15kW on their mid drive... no need 150 or 200V for an ebike... this just make more cell and BMS connections, higher cost parts like switch, fuse, dc-dc...

And if power want to have fast ebike but still want to keep theyr torque swlow winding motor that's possible with the FOC... and... the FOC feature of teh adaptto is way more evoluated with better tunning capability to match perfectly with your perticular motor winding...
 
diff_lock said:
Doctorbass said:
diff_lock said:
I was going to get the adaptto but I want to store and charge the battery indoors. Maybe I could mount the power systems on a detachable structure...
Click to expand...


Yes you can! you can leave the BMS on the battery and use the 4 pin connector to detache or attach it to the controller harness. pretty easy.

I am doing that on my NYX :wink:

Doc
Click to expand...


But I still need to charge indoors so the whole system needs come off with the battery controller and all. At the moment I just carry the battery and charger to and from the scooter.
Click to expand...


No you can buy only the controlelr and display if you want... that controller have brake signal input for teh LVC detection and also can have programmed LVC voltage as well as capacity limit cut... it will calculate Ah and also Wh of your battery witch can give your true nominal battery voltage.

The Adaptto in fact can also calculate Wh/mile as well as calculating the remaining miles before battery goes empty... and that empty state can be programmed too... the controller can calculate the actual battery max usable capacity :wink: so you know how many miles left before you need pedaling ...

Doc
 
Yes Adaptto are $$$$$$$, why?

I have to buy every part of Adaptto for using all features....
I don't like display!
I prefer CA3, more real E-bike feautures :mrgreen:
I am not using bms anymore, mine 25R cells are still in good condition.
For real balancing I am using my Icharger 4010 DUO 8)
For Adaptto price I have another spare controller in case of failure or just for fun :mrgreen:
 
Doctorbass said:
dont forget that Adaptto are using the IRFB4468 fets witch are 1.9 miliohm insteaf of 3.9 miliohm like the 4110. that mean 4 time less power dissipated
Click to expand...
ohmic loss is I²R, which tells me that it must it's about half. not 4 times less
 
+1 with the above
...and if my little controllers experience matters, it appears that my level of disapointement raise with their price ( the more expensive one being a infineon 40A from ebikes.ca) … so… adapto: no way.
 
crossbreak said:
Doctorbass said:
dont forget that Adaptto are using the IRFB4468 fets witch are 1.9 miliohm insteaf of 3.9 miliohm like the 4110. that mean 4 time less power dissipated
Click to expand...
ohmic loss is I²R, which tells me that it must it's about half. not 4 times less
Click to expand...

That's also assuming the same number of mosfets.

The price is what it is. I'd like to try a pair, but they're out of my range purely based on price. I'd hoped they were at mass production pricing by now, but unfortunately no.
 
crossbreak said:
Doctorbass said:
dont forget that Adaptto are using the IRFB4468 fets witch are 1.9 miliohm insteaf of 3.9 miliohm like the 4110. that mean 4 time less power dissipated
Click to expand...
ohmic loss is I²R, which tells me that it must it's about half. not 4 times less
Click to expand...

you are right 2 times... corrected now

Doc
 
guys.. i just want to share my own experience with these. that's it. 8)

It's like for electric car owners.. you get really convinced and satisfied of it only when you have tried one and discover how well these are! :p

Stay with Kelly and infineon, sabvoton etc (and buy more so when they blow you have spare) and add external shunt, cycle analyst, seperate bms and missing really great features, i dont care. If you like these thats, what really matter.

On my side i also liked my infineon, Kelly and others.. but i like MORE the Adaptto since i discovered these.

Doc
 
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