Game Changer Page 3 with video of 1700amps!!!!

Electric Motors and Controllers

Game Changer Page 3 with video of 1700amps!!!!

Postby Arlo1 » Tue Feb 02, 2016 10:45 pm

I have been holding this back only because I don't want any naysayers to call me out before I can prove its worth. I am doing this one open source as well, as a way to "give back" and because the world needs it. The fastest way we can get more EVs on the road is to stop the bull shit with IP. As Elon Musk said having a patent is like having a loto ticket to a lawsuit.
I have had this on the back burner for a good while. But as I wait for some parts for the Leaf inverter I will start a thread on this one.
This is the best way to lay fets out to current share. It solves MANY problems all at once. I will try to work though the start of this over the next couple weeks.

I will do my best to explain as I go.

But the basics are The top layer will be the positive buss which is an aluminum circle then a set of boards with high side drains on the top against the aluminum positive buss maybe with some silver grease under that so they conduct well. On the bottom of that is the source trace which is against Aluminum cut into 3 pie shaped pieces. Each of the 3 is 1 phase leg buss. Then under that is another set of boards in the same manner as the first set with the low side fets drains facing up on the top of them to a copper trace on the bottom with the negative buss aluminum circle.

The benefits are as follows.
Perfect (as perfect as possible) current sharing.
Matched, low inductance
Central cap locations which helps reduce inductance between all caps/fets.
Low profile so it will be compact.
Can fit in side a motor if needed.
And many more
All allowing for more power density with hi amperage.
Attachments
334.jpg
334.jpg (109.68 KiB) Viewed 4450 times
347.jpg
347.jpg (113.3 KiB) Viewed 4450 times
326.jpg
326.jpg (115.56 KiB) Viewed 4450 times
356.jpg
356.jpg (96.42 KiB) Viewed 4450 times
229.jpg
229.jpg (84.74 KiB) Viewed 4450 times
280.jpg
280.jpg (67.22 KiB) Viewed 4450 times
Last edited by Arlo1 on Tue Mar 29, 2016 2:26 am, edited 4 times in total. View post history.
My Leaf motor controller build. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 27#p963227
My YSR build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRo8r5g4NBg
RC and most types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages charging and discharging.
Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
HI power controller design. Game Changer
User avatar
Arlo1
100 GW
100 GW
 
Posts: 8422
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:36 pm
Location: Nanaimo BC Canada

Re: Game Changer

Postby Arlo1 » Tue Feb 02, 2016 10:45 pm

Just about done 1 phase for deast testing.

I will install all caps and rout all the power buss.

I am really liking this project.
Attachments
101.jpg
101.jpg (75.89 KiB) Viewed 4264 times
102.jpg
102.jpg (79.42 KiB) Viewed 4264 times
103.jpg
103.jpg (78.56 KiB) Viewed 4264 times
104.jpg
104.jpg (86.48 KiB) Viewed 4264 times
105.jpg
105.jpg (81.8 KiB) Viewed 4264 times
106.jpg
106.jpg (70.02 KiB) Viewed 4264 times
109.jpg
109.jpg (79.94 KiB) Viewed 4264 times
108.jpg
108.jpg (62.04 KiB) Viewed 4264 times
Last edited by Arlo1 on Tue Feb 09, 2016 1:06 am, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
My Leaf motor controller build. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 27#p963227
My YSR build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRo8r5g4NBg
RC and most types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages charging and discharging.
Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
HI power controller design. Game Changer
User avatar
Arlo1
100 GW
100 GW
 
Posts: 8422
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:36 pm
Location: Nanaimo BC Canada

Re: Game Changer

Postby Arlo1 » Tue Feb 02, 2016 10:46 pm

Top disc is Positive with the center 3/4" lug being connected to it.
The 3 outer 3/4" lugs are welded into the 3 pie shaped pieces and they are the phases respectively.
The bottom small disc is negative and has a set of 3 1/2" lugs attached to it.
The big bottom disc is a heat sink.
I have a new design that is about 1/2 the size of this with the same number of fets (48)
Attachments
047.jpg
047.jpg (69.81 KiB) Viewed 4306 times
049.jpg
049.jpg (84.48 KiB) Viewed 4306 times
059.jpg
059.jpg (79 KiB) Viewed 4306 times
Last edited by Arlo1 on Thu Feb 11, 2016 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
My Leaf motor controller build. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 27#p963227
My YSR build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRo8r5g4NBg
RC and most types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages charging and discharging.
Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
HI power controller design. Game Changer
User avatar
Arlo1
100 GW
100 GW
 
Posts: 8422
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:36 pm
Location: Nanaimo BC Canada

Re: Game Changer

Postby Arlo1 » Tue Feb 02, 2016 10:46 pm

This is the files I am starting with.
I have major revisions to come but this is what I am using for V1.0 for testing.
V2 is 1/2 the size with all the same power :)
Attachments
desat v2.5 split mosfet .zip
(89.73 KiB) Downloaded 61 times
desat v2.5 split mosfet .pdf
(99.42 KiB) Downloaded 100 times
game changer 11.JPG
game changer 11.JPG (71.45 KiB) Viewed 4301 times
Last edited by Arlo1 on Fri Feb 12, 2016 12:45 am, edited 2 times in total. View post history.
My Leaf motor controller build. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 27#p963227
My YSR build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRo8r5g4NBg
RC and most types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages charging and discharging.
Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
HI power controller design. Game Changer
User avatar
Arlo1
100 GW
100 GW
 
Posts: 8422
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:36 pm
Location: Nanaimo BC Canada

Re: Game Changer

Postby Arlo1 » Tue Feb 02, 2016 10:49 pm

Ill note here I have a new design I will order after testing with this one.
It separates the driver off the actual board the fets solder to. That allows me to mount the driver boards outside the casing to keep them further out of the noise and put them on a perpendicular plane when compared to the discs of aluminum to make the diameter smaller.
My Leaf motor controller build. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 27#p963227
My YSR build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRo8r5g4NBg
RC and most types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages charging and discharging.
Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
HI power controller design. Game Changer
User avatar
Arlo1
100 GW
100 GW
 
Posts: 8422
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:36 pm
Location: Nanaimo BC Canada

Re: Game Changer

Postby liveforphysics » Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:00 am

I'm very excited for this controller Arlin! Way to go!
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.
User avatar
liveforphysics
100 GW
100 GW
 
Posts: 14261
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:48 am
Location: Santa Cruz, CA, USA

Re: Game Changer

Postby Lebowski » Wed Feb 03, 2016 5:22 am

ehm, :shock:
User avatar
Lebowski
1 GW
1 GW
 
Posts: 3055
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:38 am
Location: beautiful Zurich, Switzerland

Re: Game Changer

Postby Arlo1 » Wed Feb 03, 2016 1:19 pm

Lebowski wrote:ehm, :shock:

don't worry I had these boards ordered before you showed your low inductance power-stage design. And I just now realized how this is like having 8 of your low inductance power-stages made into a circle...
This is the best way :) Great minds think alike.... :)
My Leaf motor controller build. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 27#p963227
My YSR build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRo8r5g4NBg
RC and most types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages charging and discharging.
Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
HI power controller design. Game Changer
User avatar
Arlo1
100 GW
100 GW
 
Posts: 8422
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:36 pm
Location: Nanaimo BC Canada

Re: Game Changer

Postby amberwolf » Wed Feb 03, 2016 3:16 pm

Interesting, but you should change your thread title so people interested in controllers will want to look at the thread, and not just people interested in "random" thread titles. ;)
User avatar
amberwolf
100 GW
100 GW
 
Posts: 23294
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:43 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group

Re: Game Changer

Postby Arlo1 » Wed Feb 03, 2016 3:30 pm

amberwolf wrote:Interesting, but you should change your thread title so people interested in controllers will want to look at the thread, and not just people interested in "random" thread titles. ;)

Its the name of the controller. They will look at is as time comes no worries. ;)
This was more or less posted to make sure its "out there".
Last edited by Arlo1 on Wed Feb 03, 2016 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
My Leaf motor controller build. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 27#p963227
My YSR build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRo8r5g4NBg
RC and most types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages charging and discharging.
Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
HI power controller design. Game Changer
User avatar
Arlo1
100 GW
100 GW
 
Posts: 8422
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:36 pm
Location: Nanaimo BC Canada

Re: Game Changer

Postby coleasterling » Fri Feb 12, 2016 12:35 pm

Hey Arlo, please check your PM's. Thanks!
coleasterling
10 W
10 W
 
Posts: 85
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:37 am

Re: Game Changer

Postby Arlo1 » Fri Feb 12, 2016 3:19 pm

Check these caps out. http://www.sbelectronics.com/product-ca ... ecognized/
:) I also have them working on re-designing them slightly to work better with Game Changer :)
My Leaf motor controller build. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 27#p963227
My YSR build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRo8r5g4NBg
RC and most types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages charging and discharging.
Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
HI power controller design. Game Changer
User avatar
Arlo1
100 GW
100 GW
 
Posts: 8422
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:36 pm
Location: Nanaimo BC Canada

Re: Game Changer

Postby peters » Sat Feb 13, 2016 3:02 am

Arlo1 wrote:Check these caps out. http://www.sbelectronics.com/product-ca ... ecognized/
:) I also have them working on re-designing them slightly to work better with Game Changer :)

I wondered where you put the capacitors, but these round caps look perfect.
It seems to be the lowest inductance structure ever and most even current density, looking forward to see how it performs.
peters
100 W
100 W
 
Posts: 249
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:46 pm
Location: Budapest, Hungary

Re: Game Changer

Postby liveforphysics » Sat Feb 13, 2016 3:28 am

Those caps are about as good as it gets right now for EVs.
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.
User avatar
liveforphysics
100 GW
100 GW
 
Posts: 14261
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:48 am
Location: Santa Cruz, CA, USA

Re: Game Changer

Postby cwah » Sat Feb 13, 2016 8:25 am

is it the same as golden motor controller?
Image

where would you stick the controller? on the external case?
Help me find my stolen electric brompton: http://bit.ly/1a0vbBC and Bosch Sinus B3 http://bit.ly/1eV0WQz
cwah
10 GW
10 GW
 
Posts: 4459
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2011 5:42 am
Location: Between paris and london

Re: Game Changer

Postby zombiess » Sat Feb 13, 2016 12:09 pm

Very nice Arlo1. Those caps look good and the circle based layout looks really good for sharing current.

Are you going to start stacking layers to increase power density with more parallel devices?
Last edited by zombiess on Sat Feb 13, 2016 12:10 pm, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
zombiess
1 GW
1 GW
 
Posts: 3280
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:16 am
Location: Ventura

Re: Game Changer

Postby Arlo1 » Sat Feb 13, 2016 12:33 pm

cwah wrote:is it the same as golden motor controller?


where would you stick the controller? on the external case?

Not even close
GM is good for cheep ebike kits and entry level stuff. But they put all the digital stuff inside the noise as well.
Last edited by Arlo1 on Sat Feb 13, 2016 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
My Leaf motor controller build. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 27#p963227
My YSR build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRo8r5g4NBg
RC and most types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages charging and discharging.
Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
HI power controller design. Game Changer
User avatar
Arlo1
100 GW
100 GW
 
Posts: 8422
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:36 pm
Location: Nanaimo BC Canada

Re: Game Changer

Postby Arlo1 » Sat Feb 13, 2016 12:43 pm

zombiess wrote:Very nice Arlo1. Those caps look good and the circle based layout looks really good for sharing current.

Are you going to start stacking layers to increase power density with more parallel devices?

Thank you very much. I have had this on my bench for a long time and I decided I need to get it done.

I have some ideas on how to add more fets or IGBTs in parallel but I have not sorted out how to mount them when positioned in a different manner.

The trick is to keep 1 layer because the top of the board has a drain trace under the fets and a source trace on the bottom of the board to connect to the piece of aluminum (can use copper) below it. Making it laminated. As well keeping the top aluminum + buss circle and the bottom smaller - buss circle as close as you can keeps the positive and negative laminated to some extent.
But adding a few more fets and growing the circle is not to hard.

If you can current share properly we should be able to make this thing run at 160 amps rms per fet/igbt (leg limits for a 247/264 package) for a 10-30 second burst. With 8 150v rated fets we are talking
1280rms phase amps at 102v nominal would should be able to push 1200-1400 DC amps depending on field weakening that's 122400-142800 watts !
But when you up the voltage by simply swapping out the fets for IGBTs and re-tuning the driver to say 360 nominal we are looking at up to 504000 watts!
Last edited by Arlo1 on Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:04 pm, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
My Leaf motor controller build. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 27#p963227
My YSR build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRo8r5g4NBg
RC and most types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages charging and discharging.
Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
HI power controller design. Game Changer
User avatar
Arlo1
100 GW
100 GW
 
Posts: 8422
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:36 pm
Location: Nanaimo BC Canada

Re: Game Changer

Postby macribs » Sat Feb 13, 2016 9:01 pm

Well this I got to see.
User avatar
macribs
1 GW
1 GW
 
Posts: 3022
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:59 pm

Re: Game Changer

Postby ElectricGod » Mon Feb 15, 2016 12:49 am

A round speed controller...sounds like a hard sell since it's not the typical "box" shape. While there are advantages to this design, mounting and placement on the EV will be more "interesting". When I first saw it, I thought maybe mounting it next to a hub motor would be good, but I don't know the more I think about it.

Do you have any idea how much you will be selling it for?
E-Bike XB-502 (Moped) conversion project
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=83302&p=1222730#p1222730

Currie kick scooter conversion project
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=83830&p=1227407#p1227407

My kick scooter project
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=75177
User avatar
ElectricGod
100 kW
100 kW
 
Posts: 1173
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2015 5:24 pm

Re: Game Changer

Postby Arlo1 » Mon Feb 15, 2016 1:02 am

ElectricGod wrote:A round speed controller...sounds like a hard sell since it's not the typical "box" shape. While there are advantages to this design, mounting and placement on the EV will be more "interesting". When I first saw it, I thought maybe mounting it next to a hub motor would be good, but I don't know the more I think about it.

Do you have any idea how much you will be selling it for?

First I prove it. Making money has never been a priority for me.
Round is best. Motors are round it can be mounted beside a motor on one end. Look at Tesla's inverter, the housing is round. They use a triangle type layout that is not as good as this.
BTW how many hub motors need 1200amps+ fed into them?
Priority number 1 is to make it work as best as it can and that means a round layout. I can make a housing square or rectangular if needed but that is stupid.
When finished and refined this will have the highest power to weight and the lowest volume of any controller layout. It will also last the longest because the fets will share current the best they can and the inductance is low from all fets back to the cap meaning the voltage spikes at turn off as the free wheeling diode starts to conduct will not be as high. This might take months or years to perfect... That will depend on cash flow. I don't like asking for handouts....
This is not a hard sell go get me a list of 1000 amp+ controllers that are relaible and get back to me ;)
Last edited by Arlo1 on Sun Feb 21, 2016 2:35 am, edited 2 times in total. View post history.
My Leaf motor controller build. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 27#p963227
My YSR build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRo8r5g4NBg
RC and most types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages charging and discharging.
Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
HI power controller design. Game Changer
User avatar
Arlo1
100 GW
100 GW
 
Posts: 8422
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:36 pm
Location: Nanaimo BC Canada

Re: Game Changer

Postby macribs » Mon Feb 15, 2016 1:36 am

At first I thought you where making e-bike controller, I now see that this will be motorsport controller first.
But I guess scaling down is hardly never a problem :lol:
User avatar
macribs
1 GW
1 GW
 
Posts: 3022
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:59 pm

Re: Game Changer

Postby Arlo1 » Mon Feb 15, 2016 1:52 am

macribs wrote:At first I thought you where making e-bike controller, I now see that this will be motorsport controller first.
But I guess scaling down is hardly never a problem :lol:

I live for big power.

I have built 100s of <3kw controllers and that's not fun for me.
I can scale this down and in fact I have the boards for a 6 fet version.
But proving big power first is my style ;)
My Leaf motor controller build. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 27#p963227
My YSR build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRo8r5g4NBg
RC and most types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages charging and discharging.
Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
HI power controller design. Game Changer
User avatar
Arlo1
100 GW
100 GW
 
Posts: 8422
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:36 pm
Location: Nanaimo BC Canada

Re: Game Changer

Postby Ohbse » Mon Feb 15, 2016 3:12 am

Impressive as always Arlo, always learn things reading your threads! Thanks very much for your openness and keep it up!
Ohbse
10 kW
10 kW
 
Posts: 722
Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2013 5:15 pm
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: Game Changer

Postby ElectricGod » Mon Feb 15, 2016 1:26 pm

when I said "hard sell" it is difficult to determine physical size from pictures. It looks like this controller is about 10" in diameter. I may be waaaay off and that's totally cool, but that was my impression. What are the actual expected dimensions? Anyway, for most EV solutions on ES, a 10" diameter controller is probably biggish. Of course with the current handling you are estimating, this thing will run a car!
Last edited by ElectricGod on Mon Feb 15, 2016 2:42 pm, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
E-Bike XB-502 (Moped) conversion project
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=83302&p=1222730#p1222730

Currie kick scooter conversion project
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=83830&p=1227407#p1227407

My kick scooter project
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=75177
User avatar
ElectricGod
100 kW
100 kW
 
Posts: 1173
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2015 5:24 pm

Next

Return to Motor Technology

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: markz and 4 guests