75-5 & 75-7 Motors - Looking for Test Engineers

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methods
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Re: 75-5 & 75-7 Motors - Looking for Test Engineers

Post by methods » Jun 16, 2016 4:17 pm

Doctorbass wrote:Methods,

I am just wondering what is the main ghoal of these tests? .....
I did not know that the 75-X motor also existed in carbon wrap rotor version.. that's interesting

Doc
I think you answered your own question Doc. We are dialing in a carbon wrap process... and we must determine our reliability and margin.

thanks,
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Re: 75-5 & 75-7 Motors - Looking for Test Engineers

Post by Samd » Jun 16, 2016 8:47 pm

My Aprilia RS125 with ME1114 and Sevcon Gen4 is very lacklustre. I want something that will keep up with a large gasser.
I'm keen if I can manage the expense past hers truly.
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Re: 75-5 & 75-7 Motors - Looking for Test Engineers

Post by Doctorbass » Jun 16, 2016 10:01 pm

methods wrote:
Doctorbass wrote:Methods,

I am just wondering what is the main ghoal of these tests? .....
I did not know that the 75-X motor also existed in carbon wrap rotor version.. that's interesting

Doc
I think you answered your own question Doc. We are dialing in a carbon wrap process... and we must determine our reliability and margin.

thanks,
-methods
Ok but the new IPM does not need any wraping so..? i guess this is not related to teh Zero R&D.?

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Re: 75-5 & 75-7 Motors - Looking for Test Engineers

Post by methods » Jun 16, 2016 10:39 pm

Doctorbass wrote: ... i guess this is not related to teh Zero R&D.?

Doc
Correct.
Although I worked at Zero (a while back before Tesla) the work we are doing here has nothing to do with Zero.

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Re: 75-5 & 75-7 Motors - Looking for Test Engineers

Post by motomoto » Jun 18, 2016 10:19 am

Hi Methods,

I just saw this thread because hillhater asked me if I had seen it. I have a thread going https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 30&t=81074

I want to build a supercross bike that will win a 6 minute heat race. That would be quite an engineering feat in my estimation out of a small machine shop
in Nor Cal.

I just ordered a 75-7 yesterday. I don't need a new motor to do the testing. Keeping the weight down is a big consideration. Being able to win dirt drag
races against 450s is another. I would like to come see what you are doing. I live in the Sacramento area.

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Re: 75-5 & 75-7 Motors - Looking for Test Engineers

Post by tomaj » Jun 20, 2016 12:05 pm

Perhaps offtopic question...where can an ordinary guy buy 75-7 motor? :D

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Re: 75-5 & 75-7 Motors - Looking for Test Engineers

Post by craigcalfee » Jun 20, 2016 9:17 pm

Hi everyone,
Longtime lurker, first time poster.
Yes, we've obtained quite a few of these motors and had previously been hired to solve a problem with some of them that resulted in the magnets departing the rotor and the stainless bands failing to restrain them. As Methods described, the forces are huge once you get past 5,000 rpm. The carbon wraps worked and Ryan tested them to failure. But they worked out the problem with the motor manufacturer so we didn't get that rework job. But we ended up with this salvage job and so far, it's showing a lot of promise. We found the root causes of the failures and have refined the rework technique. Methods has been helping us setup the test rigs and trained us on how to safely run them. We've now got a few carbon wrapped motors that have passed the basic tests and now need some field testing. We'd like to offer either the 75-5 or 75-7 for $500 to qualified testers. If they are controlled to run no more than 6,000 rpm and stay under 120C, and they fail, we'll replace it.

Note these are new motors that have been tested to 6150 rpm and kept under 120C. We're balancing the rotors. The carbon wraps result in 55 grams lower weight on the outer surface of the rotor. That may not sound like a lot but it's exactly where you'd want to lose mass.

We have 2D drawings and solidworks models of the motors if needed.
Who's in?

Craig

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Re: 75-5 & 75-7 Motors - Looking for Test Engineers

Post by Jason3 » Jun 20, 2016 9:56 pm

craigcalfee wrote:Hi everyone,
Longtime lurker, first time poster.
Yes, we've obtained quite a few of these motors and had previously been hired to solve a problem with some of them that resulted in the magnets departing the rotor and the stainless bands failing to restrain them. As Methods described, the forces are huge once you get past 5,000 rpm. The carbon wraps worked and Ryan tested them to failure. But they worked out the problem with the motor manufacturer so we didn't get that rework job. But we ended up with this salvage job and so far, it's showing a lot of promise. We found the root causes of the failures and have refined the rework technique. Methods has been helping us setup the test rigs and trained us on how to safely run them. We've now got a few carbon wrapped motors that have passed the basic tests and now need some field testing. We'd like to offer either the 75-5 or 75-7 for $500 to qualified testers. If they are controlled to run no more than 6,000 rpm and stay under 120C, and they fail, we'll replace it.

Note these are new motors that have been tested to 6150 rpm and kept under 120C. We're balancing the rotors. The carbon wraps result in 55 grams lower weight on the outer surface of the rotor. That may not sound like a lot but it's exactly where you'd want to lose mass.

We have 2D drawings and solidworks models of the motors if needed.
Who's in?

Craig
Yes please! I'd like one, will send a PM now.

Kind regards,

Jason

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Re: 75-5 & 75-7 Motors - Looking for Test Engineers

Post by liveforphysics » Jun 20, 2016 10:37 pm

I can vouch Craig Calfee is the real deal, has exactly what he is offering, and is an amazing human being who has been a friend for many years.

ATB,
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Re: 75-5 & 75-7 Motors - Looking for Test Engineers

Post by Ratking » Jun 22, 2016 4:48 am

craigcalfee wrote:Hi everyone,
Longtime lurker, first time poster.
Yes, we've obtained quite a few of these motors and had previously been hired to solve a problem with some of them that resulted in the magnets departing the rotor and the stainless bands failing to restrain them. As Methods described, the forces are huge once you get past 5,000 rpm. The carbon wraps worked and Ryan tested them to failure. But they worked out the problem with the motor manufacturer so we didn't get that rework job. But we ended up with this salvage job and so far, it's showing a lot of promise. We found the root causes of the failures and have refined the rework technique. Methods has been helping us setup the test rigs and trained us on how to safely run them. We've now got a few carbon wrapped motors that have passed the basic tests and now need some field testing. We'd like to offer either the 75-5 or 75-7 for $500 to qualified testers. If they are controlled to run no more than 6,000 rpm and stay under 120C, and they fail, we'll replace it.

Note these are new motors that have been tested to 6150 rpm and kept under 120C. We're balancing the rotors. The carbon wraps result in 55 grams lower weight on the outer surface of the rotor. That may not sound like a lot but it's exactly where you'd want to lose mass.

We have 2D drawings and solidworks models of the motors if needed.
Who's in?

Craig
Hello,

As mentioned earlier, I am interested in a motor. But there was talk about a motor+controller combo where the controller was pre programmed. That would help a lot. Do you provide this, and what would the price be?

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Re: 75-5 & 75-7 Motors - Looking for Test Engineers

Post by nuxland » Jun 22, 2016 8:54 am

How long can you pump 550A to the 75-7 motor until it reaches 120 degrees celcius? I would like to have one of these in my electric kart if it lasts 10 laps (7-8 minutes) of heavy current :)

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Re: 75-5 & 75-7 Motors - Looking for Test Engineers

Post by craigcalfee » Jun 22, 2016 1:58 pm

Hello,

As mentioned earlier, I am interested in a motor. But there was talk about a motor+controller combo where the controller was pre programmed. That would help a lot. Do you provide this, and what would the price be?
We're hoping to get some controllers to resell but haven't sourced them yet. There are a few options with the Sevcon size 4 and 6 as well as one of the newer Curtis controllers. We're familiar with programming the Sevcon and have a friend that knows the Curtis pretty well. If you can source them and send to us, we''ll program it for you @ $50/hr. Guessing less than 1 hr on that. Also getting set up to make wiring harnesses.
Craig Calfee

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Re: 75-5 & 75-7 Motors - Looking for Test Engineers

Post by craigcalfee » Jun 22, 2016 2:01 pm

nuxland wrote:How long can you pump 550A to the 75-7 motor until it reaches 120 degrees celcius? I would like to have one of these in my electric kart if it lasts 10 laps (7-8 minutes) of heavy current :)
Great question. We'll have to test that out with the Sevcon Size 6 or a Curtis.

Craig
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Re: 75-5 & 75-7 Motors - Looking for Test Engineers

Post by nuxland » Jun 23, 2016 2:25 am

craigcalfee wrote:
nuxland wrote:How long can you pump 550A to the 75-7 motor until it reaches 120 degrees celcius? I would like to have one of these in my electric kart if it lasts 10 laps (7-8 minutes) of heavy current :)
Great question. We'll have to test that out with the Sevcon Size 6 or a Curtis.

Craig
I'm willing to test that and would like to buy one 75-7 motor :) I have a race this sunday where I'm going with sevcon gen4 size 6 and GM 10kw 48V motor. I'm pumping 400A to 660A to that motor. I used to have controller overheated (went to 80 degrees) after 8th lap, but now I have installed water cooling to the controller and hope it will last 10 laps. I have installed forced inside air cooling to the motor and after 7 laps it was 80 degrees. I have also programmed a windows application that sits in the tabled (it is installed into kart) and records canbus information (I have ixxat usb2can adapter on the kart) to log file with 200ms intervals.
Here is video of testing in race track (then with passive air cooled controller): https://youtu.be/iXPbWTuXLQg

PS! I also have DVT software (the new one with a license) so I can program the controller to the specs you need.

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Re: 75-5 & 75-7 Motors - Looking for Test Engineers

Post by Hillhater » Jun 23, 2016 2:40 am

Wow !
Thats probably one of the most comprehensive set of data logging i have seen on any EV ( or any race vehicle ?).
Im sure you dont see much as you are on the track, but which critical data do you monitor as you drive. .?
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Re: 75-5 & 75-7 Motors - Looking for Test Engineers

Post by Arlo1 » Jun 23, 2016 10:16 am

Your right that gauge overlay into the video give me a Boner. I have an app that did that at on time but after paying for the app I found the whole thing was dead in the water.
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Re: 75-5 & 75-7 Motors - Looking for Test Engineers

Post by nuxland » Jun 24, 2016 5:02 am

Hillhater wrote:Wow !
Thats probably one of the most comprehensive set of data logging i have seen on any EV ( or any race vehicle ?).
Im sure you dont see much as you are on the track, but which critical data do you monitor as you drive. .?
It would go offtopic in here, so I have created a post in my kart thread, that will explain in details.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 5#p1198217
But basically I can only see motor and controller temp bars from android application during race, even the clearview data is too small to look :)

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Re: 75-5 & 75-7 Motors - Looking for Test Engineers

Post by schabo » Jul 01, 2016 9:44 am

I could test one in my Zero MX conversion. If you ship to Germany, i`m in. Sevcon size 4
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Re: 75-5 & 75-7 Motors - Looking for Test Engineers

Post by Science Faction » Jul 04, 2016 4:25 pm

Oooh, I'd love to do a quad rotor or even an octo with these.
How much do they weigh?
Continous torque? @Amps?
Continous Power in good airflow?
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Re: 75-5 & 75-7 Motors - Looking for Test Engineers

Post by catacon » Jul 19, 2016 7:29 pm

Definitely interested in this for a kart application. I PM'd you as well.

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Re: 75-5 & 75-7 Motors - Looking for Test Engineers

Post by liveforphysics » Jul 19, 2016 8:11 pm

schabo wrote:I could test one in my Zero MX conversion. If you ship to Germany, i`m in. Sevcon size 4

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Re: 75-5 & 75-7 Motors - Looking for Test Engineers

Post by Ratking » Jul 20, 2016 7:43 am

liveforphysics wrote:
schabo wrote:I could test one in my Zero MX conversion. If you ship to Germany, i`m in. Sevcon size 4

Sexy bike!
I would like to know the weight of the different motors, do you know? Have have tried google and this site, but no dice

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Re: 75-5 & 75-7 Motors - Looking for Test Engineers

Post by Doctorbass » Jul 22, 2016 5:50 pm

Ratking wrote:
liveforphysics wrote:
schabo wrote:I could test one in my Zero MX conversion. If you ship to Germany, i`m in. Sevcon size 4

Sexy bike!
I would like to know the weight of the different motors, do you know? Have have tried google and this site, but no dice

Here si the weight for the 75-7R IPM 2016 8)

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Re: 75-5 & 75-7 Motors - Looking for Test Engineers

Post by athlon » Jul 26, 2016 10:30 am

nuxland wrote:How long can you pump 550A to the 75-7 motor until it reaches 120 degrees celcius? I would like to have one of these in my electric kart if it lasts 10 laps (7-8 minutes) of heavy current :)
the most significant is the starting temperature of the motor , in winter you get much more time than in summer or form an hot motor.

Second depends on airflow on the fin , i did some try with oilcooling the ZF motor but if air cooled performance are enough for you the best is just to stay on the regular motor ( IPM have better efficiency so it runs cooler )

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Re: 75-5 & 75-7 Motors - Looking for Test Engineers

Post by methods » Aug 17, 2016 12:56 pm

I have been super busy on other projects. I have a mini-methods now that requires steady income:
miniMethods.jpg
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Do we have any field testing data yet?

I have high certainty that the bench testing we did is representative... but no lab testing in the world is as good as 20 crazy guys in the field. :mrgreen:
(That's basically what the military does... After the MIC gets done qualifying something they go out and break it in ways nobody imagined)

So...
Who is ready to report on success or failure?

-methods
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(of course... that is fechter's signature... and .... too important not to repeat)

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