"Edge" DD hubmotor, 1500W, 35mm, Al core

Electric Motors and Controllers
User avatar
skeetab5780
1 MW
1 MW
Posts: 1790
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 10:58 pm

Re: "Edge" DD hubmotor, 1500W, 35mm, Al core

Post by skeetab5780 » Thu Jul 21, 2016 11:53 am

Nice ya to hear you got the sinewave, Kinaye is good free shipping! Don't overwork yourself it will get done in time.

User avatar
Samd
1.21 GW
1.21 GW
Posts: 3829
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:08 pm

Re: "Edge" DD hubmotor, 1500W, 35mm, Al core

Post by Samd » Thu Jul 21, 2016 10:34 pm

I also managed to luck onto the maker of this motor a few weeks back as a number of us have been chasing a 35mm motor for a few years as a replacement to the 6.2kg Mxus 29mm V2. I even went to QSmotor to see if they would tool up for this size in their thread but the costs were ridiculous.

Its a struggle to upgrade phase wires much past 2mm on the current axle. There has been some discussion about upping the magnets to 40mm but supplier is a bit lost I think.
Keen to get those samples. There's also a smaller radius DD motor with a wide stator that may make a really good middrive donor.
http://ballaratebikes.com/

ImageImageImage
"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing that a 165mm rear shock can't deliver 220mm of rear swingarm travel." - Oprah Winfrey.

User avatar
neptronix
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 13029
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 5:56 pm

Re: "Edge" DD hubmotor, 1500W, 35mm, Al core

Post by neptronix » Thu Jul 21, 2016 11:42 pm

Omg, they won't make a full 40mm version.. that would be a hot seller.. are they out of their minds?

They're already halfway there! :lol: :lol: :lol:
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The wheelie machine: 20" Rear Magic Pie II on a Trek 4300 MTB

"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now."- Chinese Proverb

User avatar
spinningmagnets
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 10709
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 10:27 pm

Re: "Edge" DD hubmotor, 1500W, 35mm, Al core

Post by spinningmagnets » Fri Jul 29, 2016 5:22 am

Just an update, I have laced the hub to a 19-inch Holmes-MMP moped rim (from Kinaye, highly recommended). I need to true the rim, mount the tube and tire, get the Kinaye 18-FET to work with the Edge 1500W hub, and mount for a road test...

I have a wife and a job, so...this could take a while...

User avatar
Vanarian
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 583
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 12:24 pm

Re: "Edge" DD hubmotor, 1500W, 35mm, Al core

Post by Vanarian » Fri Jul 29, 2016 2:09 pm

Does the moped rim fits standard in a bike frame? I'm lost with the dropouts sizes
I needed to turn Air Gear stuff into reality so I am making this!
-+Electric inline skates - no remote control - weight / angle sensor - hub motors - one frame for all wheels sizes between 80/125mm - from 3.2 to 12 KW :mrgreen:

Rollo Ergo Sum!

User avatar
spinningmagnets
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 10709
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 10:27 pm

Re: "Edge" DD hubmotor, 1500W, 35mm, Al core

Post by spinningmagnets » Mon Aug 08, 2016 2:39 am

The "common" drop outs sizes are 135mm wide for the rear, and 100mm for the front.

There are always exceptions to the rule, but...the common drop-outs for fat bikes is 170mm for the rear and 135mm for the front.

Just an update, I'm having an issue with the controller (this model is new to me). I always recommend to anyone new to ebikes is to get the controller and throttle from the same vendor as the motor (plus get a second throttle from them as a spare). I never had an issue getting a battery and charger from a different vendor, and I have swapped connectors to match on almost all of them (always get the battery and charger from the same vendor).

But...I have a 6-FET, two 12-FETs, and an 18-FET, so...why buy another controller, a super guru like me should easily be able to get it to work, amirite? (*smacks forehead in frustration)...Well, I guess this is a good time to sort out a controller/motor wire matching guide. I've seen the resources in the technical reference section, but they are not written in a way I like, so....I'll work on this now. Plus, I need a little time to make up some new torque-plates for my main bicycle test-mule...

I ran the motor with a sensorless 6-FET, and the motor sounds fine, so that's one thing crossed off the list....

User avatar
skeetab5780
1 MW
1 MW
Posts: 1790
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 10:58 pm

Re: "Edge" DD hubmotor, 1500W, 35mm, Al core

Post by skeetab5780 » Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:03 am

That's the worst. I had this happen to me with a 48v 40a Ebay controller a few years ago, at the time I didn't know what the self learning jumper was and I was trying to setup the wiring combo. The motor spun backwards at full speed while the bike was on its kickstand... the pedals then followed going too fast to try and stop...they snapped the kickstand off the bike faster than I could react. Got some nice scraped trying to pull the battery wires apart. If I was smarter I would've had the wheel off the ground some how

Jabotical
100 W
100 W
Posts: 101
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 2:58 pm

Re: "Edge" DD hubmotor, 1500W, 35mm, Al core

Post by Jabotical » Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:35 am

I did have the wheel off the ground and still had a similar experience trying to get the phase/hall business working. I 100% expected the wheel to turn forward with a particular combination, and cranked it full throttle trying to see how much power it was using. The thing is the pedals are driven backward even if the wheel is off the ground. Same deal, blasted the kickstand off and raised a knot of a bruise on my shin. Also ripped out some wires. I learned my lesson for sure.

markz
10 GW
10 GW
Posts: 4638
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:38 pm

Re: "Edge" DD hubmotor, 1500W, 35mm, Al core

Post by markz » Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:03 pm

I wonder what the amp rating is for their 1500W sinewave controller that comes with the 1500W for the price of $399 USD. The 2400W is 50A and comes at no cost either. 31.25A is my calculation for the 1500W. Laced into a rim is $150, wonder what kind of rim they use. I am very interested in this, shipping to Canada is $85!!!!! Good deal!!!!! I was seriously looking at buying the Leaf ($340 for the kit), but this Edge seems like a waaaaaay better deal, with the alum stator and sinewave 18 fet controller. I will send them an email about the rim.

Here are some quotes from their webite!
Can be laced in a wheel of your choice at additional cost
1500W Continuous Power 2500W Peak
135mm axle shoulder width
35mm wide magnet
9.4Kv
Can fit a 7 speed freewheel but will need to space out the dropouts to approximately 140mm
16AWG Phase wires, 6 Speed Freewheel works without problem.
Temp Sensor / 2 Piece wiring harness for quick disconnect allow easy tire / tube changes. (Optional)
Motor Weight = 16.6lbs
Aluminum stator, better heat dissipation compared to steel stators.
Thin laminations for high efficiency.
2 Piece wiring harness for quick disconnect allow easy tire / tube changes.
Can be laced in a wheel of your choice at additional cost
When paired with our EDGE sinewave controller for silent, smooth, and powerful acceleration and torque.
EDGE Sinewave Controller 48V-95V
18 Mosfets Genuine IRFB4110

User avatar
spinningmagnets
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 10709
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 10:27 pm

Re: "Edge" DD hubmotor, 1500W, 35mm, Al core

Post by spinningmagnets » Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:43 pm

If you like this motor, buy it while it is in stock. I'm about to write an article on it, and typically when I do, that product is suddenly "out of stock"...

I have one laced to a 19-inch moped rim, and NO!...it's not for sale...

Jabotical
100 W
100 W
Posts: 101
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 2:58 pm

Re: "Edge" DD hubmotor, 1500W, 35mm, Al core

Post by Jabotical » Fri Aug 12, 2016 9:32 am

If I'd been more aware of it and the distinctions and advantages of locality and motor composition a few weeks ago, I probably would have bought it instead of snagging the leafbikes one and a Grin controller. That said, I've been extremely satisfied with my combo for the most part, so if this one is at least as good but domestically available in a package with a nice higher-amp natively CA-compatible sine wave controller, it should be extremely popular in the future.

One thing I don't think I've seen mentioned: what kind of temperature sensor is in there? The most ongoing annoyance of the leafbikes motor for me has been the 100k thermistor it comes with that's not natively compatible with a Cycle Analyst V3, so people have to routinely crack the case open and replace it.

And of course if they could shave off even a millimeter or two of width that would be extremely significant, since the leafbikes one is such a tight fit. But I'm guessing it will be comparably wide, which is also fine.

User avatar
spinningmagnets
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 10709
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 10:27 pm

Re: "Edge" DD hubmotor, 1500W, 35mm, Al core

Post by spinningmagnets » Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:38 pm

Yeah, its a tight fit. The cable exits on the disc brake side (left), and if you have horizontal slots for the frame drop-outs, the cable exits straight down for the "drip loop". On hubs in this power category, there is not a lot of pedaling, so the 7-speed may "technically" fit, but...I recommend a six-speed freewheel just to make fitment over a wider range of frames easy to drag and drop the hub into the frame.

You really only need a single-speed freewheel on the back, with a chain tensioner and two chainrings up front. A high "pedal along with the hub" gear, and a low "I burned out my controller and have to pedal home" gear.

The main purpose of having the six speed freewheel (with single chainring) is to just make the bike look normal to casual observers: "Is that a street-legal 750W hubmotor, I just read about those?"

"Yes....yes it is"

evolutiongts
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 717
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:13 pm

Re: "Edge" DD hubmotor, 1500W, 35mm, Al core

Post by evolutiongts » Fri Aug 12, 2016 4:19 pm

On 72V with our EDGE 18 FET Sinewave controller 60A, got it up to 50mph.

Motor was warm after extended high speed runs, but not bad at all. Definately runs cooler than the old Crystalyte HS3540 which would get hot after 5 minutes of running it hard.

Yes it has a temp sensor.

http://www.electricrt.com
Electric Race Technologies

10Kw KMX death trike
MUXUS 3K Turbo
Sabvoton 72V150A
Moto Wheels all around
Front Suspension Kit
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =6&t=83423

Giant Trance 4 Full Suspension
Cyclone 3000W
74V 3000W
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=59005

User avatar
skeetab5780
1 MW
1 MW
Posts: 1790
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 10:58 pm

Re: "Edge" DD hubmotor, 1500W, 35mm, Al core

Post by skeetab5780 » Sat Aug 13, 2016 7:59 am

50mph seems fast, Does that controller run 120% throttle or something?

I don't think i've ever hit 50 on a flat with 20S but ive only run 45 amps max

Now downhill is a different story

Trailblazer
10 W
10 W
Posts: 70
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:26 am

Re: "Edge" DD hubmotor, 1500W, 35mm, Al core

Post by Trailblazer » Thu Aug 18, 2016 12:22 am

I just found this yesterday on your post on Elecricbike.com Ron, and now I've bought the dang thing. Couldn't resist! It was just what I've been looking for! Thanks!

Are you guys aware of this? https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... start=1325

He almost has it ready to ship these cooling fins for the Leaf Motor. So this is a leaf motor, right? That's what Ron's article says, anway. If his claims regarding the cooling for a Leaf Motor are correct, I can ride that thing all day and not have to worry about overheating. Schweeeet!

User avatar
Samd
1.21 GW
1.21 GW
Posts: 3829
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:08 pm

Re: "Edge" DD hubmotor, 1500W, 35mm, Al core

Post by Samd » Thu Aug 18, 2016 2:12 am

Trailblazer wrote:I just found this yesterday on your post on Elecricbike.com Ron, and now I've bought the dang thing. Couldn't resist! It was just what I've been looking for! Thanks!

Are you guys aware of this? https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... start=1325

He almost has it ready to ship these cooling fins for the Leaf Motor. So this is a leaf motor, right? That's what Ron's article says, anway. If his claims regarding the cooling for a Leaf Motor are correct, I can ride that thing all day and not have to worry about overheating. Schweeeet!
In the 2 to 3kw zone, you are probably quite right, as long as you don't plan to feed it 10kw and expect the torque response of a much larger motor.
On the flip side - nice light package! Good time for ebikers we are living in for sure.
http://ballaratebikes.com/

ImageImageImage
"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing that a 165mm rear shock can't deliver 220mm of rear swingarm travel." - Oprah Winfrey.

User avatar
spinningmagnets
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 10709
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 10:27 pm

Re: "Edge" DD hubmotor, 1500W, 35mm, Al core

Post by spinningmagnets » Thu Aug 18, 2016 10:32 am

LA eBike has been secretive about the supplier, which is understandable. Leafbike and QS have all been asked about making this, and they've been hesitant to invest in a new model. Both were willing to do if someone fronted the money for the first 100 units (or something like that). It could easily be a third supplier who stepped up to the plate. I haven't found any manufacturer markings, but...even if I did, I wouldn't mention it for at least a year to help LA eBike make a few bucks first for being the guys who made this happen.

I agree with SamD, if you are running a true 2.5-3kw, this is a good fit. If running 3500kw or more, upgrade to the MXUS 3000. Ferro Fluid would help on flat land, just as the aluminum stator support helps that, but...if you are on a long and steep hill that you have to run full throttle on (to keep up with traffic), then the ally core will "delay" heat-soaking, but it will not raise long-term (continuous) heat capability.

The Ferro Fluid would do both. Delay any heat soak, and also slightly raise continuous heat survivability, since heat would continuously flow though the FF in the gap, from the coils to the aluminum side plates. The fins would help too.

Once you've committed to using only a single-speed freewheel, there is a definite benefit to simply upgrading to a MXUS 3000 with 45mm wide stator, since it can take big amps with less waste heat from saturation. You don't have to find some way to shed any of the heat that you don't make in the first place.

Trailblazer
10 W
10 W
Posts: 70
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:26 am

Re: "Edge" DD hubmotor, 1500W, 35mm, Al core

Post by Trailblazer » Thu Aug 18, 2016 11:28 am

I couldn't agree more, samd. Only a few years ago I was lugging around a 22lb LiFePO because I couldn't get enough of the grinning thing.
Wow, I didn't know that the MXUS was so highly revered. However, I am not 20 something, I'm 50 something and I don't want 10KW, 2.5-3KW is fine by me.
I have had such a great time with these bikes...I thought I was done biking because of physical limitations, NO SIR! I bike almost every day now! Glorious!

Yeah, I'm not looking to run it like an MXUS, I just want it to do better with heat shedding than my MAC. I need a lighter motor than the MXUS, so this seems perfect. So are we buying ebike.ca's ferro fluid, or is there another recommended vendor?

Trailblazer
10 W
10 W
Posts: 70
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:26 am

Re: "Edge" DD hubmotor, 1500W, 35mm, Al core

Post by Trailblazer » Mon Sep 05, 2016 11:19 pm

Samd wrote:
Trailblazer wrote:I just found this yesterday on your post on Elecricbike.com Ron, and now I've bought the dang thing. Couldn't resist! It was just what I've been looking for! Thanks!

Are you guys aware of this? https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... start=1325

He almost has it ready to ship these cooling fins for the Leaf Motor. So this is a leaf motor, right? That's what Ron's article says, anway. If his claims regarding the cooling for a Leaf Motor are correct, I can ride that thing all day and not have to worry about overheating. Schweeeet!
In the 2 to 3kw zone, you are probably quite right, as long as you don't plan to feed it 10kw and expect the torque response of a much larger motor.
On the flip side - nice light package! Good time for ebikers we are living in for sure.
So, I was able to get this thing out for a ride today. This is my first DD and all I can say is wow! It's very quiet compared to my MAC and it's fast with a 52V battery I'm going 36mph. Really nice. I bought it with the CA V3 option and laced in a wheel.It did not come with a 3 speed switch. I really wish it had. I love those things and it helps me to keep my Amps in check.

I have a couple of questions. I am currently using a 52V battery of Panasonic PF cells. I've had the battery shut off on me before because of heat, but never this soon. This motor was pulling around 3.6KW and the battery got hot quick! I'm looking at getting battery with either 30q cells or 25r cells at 72v. Which cells would you recommend that would last a bit longer and not get so hot? The increased voltage should help with lower Amperage and therefore less heat, right?

I really want to get the regenerative braking hooked up. He included a regular cable brake lever with a switch going directly to the controller. I have hydraulic brakes and I have a magnetic switch. Shouldn't' I be able to go directly to the CA with the switch or do I have to go through the controller? Does anyone know?

Also, I have to ask the seller about the temp sensor. I couldn't get it set right. I tried linear and 10K thermistor and it seemed to not work either way.

I really like this motor. Does everyone put the FF in these? Does it make that big of a difference? Which side do I remove? The drive side or the brake side? Thanks for any suggestions/help!

User avatar
Samd
1.21 GW
1.21 GW
Posts: 3829
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:08 pm

Re: "Edge" DD hubmotor, 1500W, 35mm, Al core

Post by Samd » Mon Sep 05, 2016 11:55 pm

Do you have two wires going to the temp sensor on CAV3? Try just one wire, leave the earth off, thats how it is for the Mxus 45mm motor. You have to plug it into the right pin on the CAV though, or it'll count down from 5 volts, not up from zero.
http://ballaratebikes.com/

ImageImageImage
"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing that a 165mm rear shock can't deliver 220mm of rear swingarm travel." - Oprah Winfrey.

User avatar
spinningmagnets
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 10709
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 10:27 pm

Re: "Edge" DD hubmotor, 1500W, 35mm, Al core

Post by spinningmagnets » Tue Sep 06, 2016 11:44 am

This will be my test mule for ferro-fluid and motor-case rim-fins. I have a feeling they will work well, so I am only looking for unexpected issues.

I have read that some builders have drilled a hole slowly into one of the six disc brake mounting holes, which...if done right...will not leave any metal shavings inside. If you must remove one side plate, it is always easiest to leave the side with the cable exit still attached to the central section.

This motor has the cable exit from the left/ disc brake side. I found it to be very easy to remove the tiny side plate bolts on the right (chain side), and then press down on the mounted rim, so that the center section pops up. Lift by the axle, DO NOT PUT YOUR FINGER TIPS NEXT TO THE MAGNETS. If you do, there's a chance you can become a master criminal, because most of your finger-tips will no longer have finger-prints. See the pics in the article for opening the motor.

User avatar
mrbill
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 504
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:47 pm

Re: "Edge" DD hubmotor, 1500W, 35mm, Al core

Post by mrbill » Wed Sep 07, 2016 7:13 pm

Hi Folks:

I bought one of the Edge1500 motors from LA Ebikes last month and am only now getting around to testing it in an ISO 559 wheel (driven by an ASI BAC2000 or Lyen MkII 12FET at 50 volts). When I'm done I'll post a review on my blog.

http://mrbill.homeip.net/hybridBike.php

Some preliminary observations:

1) My motor has a Kv of 11.5, not the 9.4 that is advertised on LA Ebike's web page. I would have preferred a Kv closer to the advertised 9.4 or, if anything, a bit lower. Has anyone received a motor with a Kv closer to 9.4 or less?

2) My motor was supposed to come with a 10k NTC thermistor installed. But after I could get no signal from the sixth (white) wire on the Molex connector, I popped open the non-drive side of the motor and discovered that the white wire was cut at the outer insulation inside the motor--look near the tip of the screwdriver in this photo:
BB-20160815-141240.jpg
No thermistor installed.
Fortunately, I have a supply of 10k NTC thermistors, so I installed my own using this wire and the Hall ground:
BB-20160815-144125.jpg
10k NTC thermistor installed under coils.
3) The axle stub on the drive side is a bit short when using a 7-speed freewheel. I'd like to have about 5-10mm more thread on that side.

4) Phase wires may be a bit thin (16ga.) and the wire assembly and weatherized connector gets warm and soft after testing hard starts and stops in the street for a few minutes (while the interior thermistor reads 40-45C). For the moment I'm retaining the convenient all-in-one connector that comes with the motor, but I may later remove it and splice my own wiring closer to the hub axle if I find that the stock wiring or connector remain unusually warm in normal use. I've already extended the stock wiring harness with another 70cm of 10 ga copper (for the phases) to the controller. The 10 ga portion remains cool. Only the stock portion of the wiring and the stock connector get warm.
Bill Bushnell
http://mrbill.homeip.net/
Bike build thread can be seen here.

Trailblazer
10 W
10 W
Posts: 70
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:26 am

Re: "Edge" DD hubmotor, 1500W, 35mm, Al core

Post by Trailblazer » Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:53 pm

Samd wrote:Do you have two wires going to the temp sensor on CAV3? Try just one wire, leave the earth off, thats how it is for the Mxus 45mm motor. You have to plug it into the right pin on the CAV though, or it'll count down from 5 volts, not up from zero.
Thanks for your help, Samd. Yes, I have two wires going to the CA. I will play around with removing one wire or the other. Those JST connectors aren't easy to deal with...or I don't know what I'm doing.
What setting should I have on the CA?


Something new during my ride last night. When riding it with a 25R 20AH battery at 40mph (being careful not to overheat since the CA was showing 4.2KW), the CA quit displaying Speed. When I let off the throttle it would display speed, but when engaging the throttle, speed goes to 00.0 mph.
Any thoughts about that?

EDIT: The loss of speed reaadout was the controller getting hot. I moved it to a different position and this went away.
Last edited by Trailblazer on Wed Sep 14, 2016 11:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

Spongeworthy
10 mW
10 mW
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun May 15, 2016 8:33 pm

Re: "Edge" DD hubmotor, 1500W, 35mm, Al core

Post by Spongeworthy » Sun Sep 11, 2016 4:05 am

Is the controller that comes with the motor capable of variable regen?

Trailblazer
10 W
10 W
Posts: 70
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:26 am

Re: "Edge" DD hubmotor, 1500W, 35mm, Al core

Post by Trailblazer » Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:47 pm

Spongeworthy wrote:Is the controller that comes with the motor capable of variable regen?
How would I check that? Not much info on the purchase page and I can't get the seller to answer emails.

Post Reply