Buick Lacrosse 2012 e-assist moto-alternator

Electric Motors and Controllers
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Re: Buick Lacrosse 2012 e-assist moto-alternator

Post by 96Miata » Apr 25 2018 7:19am

themelon wrote:
Apr 24 2018 11:58am
96Miata wrote:
Apr 24 2018 4:33am
So Im new to the electric motor setups and I've been wanting to do a electric boost system project for some time. I just bought a Gen 2 EAssist motor/Gen. I want to put it on my Miata as a boost system and the have a ReGen system. Most of the stuff you guys are talking about is way over my head, but I want to learn more about how to make this work. Thanks e-vektor, keep up the good work
I would suggest starting a new topic on this, referencing this thread as a starting point, since it is a very different application of the 2nd gen of this motor, not the first being discussed here. I know from the electronics side the Gen2 is vastly different from the Gen1 eAssist setup. I have not looked at the motor itself though.

What you are talking about doing is somewhat similar to a long term project I am working on though. I am working out a way to integrate a Chevy Spark EV trans-axle into the drive train of my 2004 GMC 2500HD Duramax pickup. My current plan, for the mechanical side at least, is to connect it to the front axle output side of the 4WD transfer case. The Spark motor is not very big but it puts out 400 foot pounds as Chevy has it setup. It is a permanent magnet motor though, not inductive like the eAssist unit.
The 2012 EAssist MGU is a 2nd Gen.

I am looking into how to make it run, since this is the only person that has posted anything about this MGU working out side of GM.

Are you using an inverter seperate from the controller? You say you are only getting 4k from from it before losing efficiency. What was the pulley ratio on the Buick? Gm must have been getting more than 10k rpm.

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Re: Buick Lacrosse 2012 e-assist moto-alternator

Post by Harold in CR » Apr 25 2018 8:21am

The Gen 1 is a permanent magnet alternator operating on 36V. It was very weak compared to the Gen 2 at 115V.
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Re: Buick Lacrosse 2012 e-assist moto-alternator

Post by themelon » Apr 25 2018 8:39am

Harold in CR wrote:
Apr 25 2018 8:21am
The Gen 1 is a permanent magnet alternator operating on 36V. It was very weak compared to the Gen 2 at 115V.
And what is technically gen1 isn't called eAssist by GM.

In this case we should probably use model years as well to avoid confusion.

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Re: Buick Lacrosse 2012 e-assist moto-alternator

Post by Harold in CR » Apr 25 2018 9:30am

You are correct, it's called BAS + (Belt Alternator Starter) system. In 2009 was the last year, then, 2012 was the new Gen 2 E-assist system.

Melon, which do you have then, Gen 1 or Gen 2 ? I thought about getting a Gen 2 controller/inverter, but, they are located in 2-3 different areas of the cars. Physically knowing which part is which and not finding sufficient images is what stopped me from buying.

Unfortunately, there is no direct off the shelf inverter/controller capable of running these Gen 2 Alternators. A resolver board is needed to add to the Curtis and P&S Ac controllers. I just got a used Curtis and need to find out from E-vector how to add it to my Curtis controller.
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Re: Buick Lacrosse 2012 e-assist moto-alternator

Post by themelon » Apr 25 2018 12:32pm

Harold in CR wrote:
Apr 25 2018 9:30am
You are correct, it's called BAS + (Belt Alternator Starter) system. In 2009 was the last year, then, 2012 was the new Gen 2 E-assist system.

Melon, which do you have then, Gen 1 or Gen 2 ? I thought about getting a Gen 2 controller/inverter, but, they are located in 2-3 different areas of the cars. Physically knowing which part is which and not finding sufficient images is what stopped me from buying.

Unfortunately, there is no direct off the shelf inverter/controller capable of running these Gen 2 Alternators. A resolver board is needed to add to the Curtis and P&S Ac controllers. I just got a used Curtis and need to find out from E-vector how to add it to my Curtis controller.
I have 6 motors varying from '12-'14 and 6 of the inverter/DCtoDC/battery modules from the same range, one of which I destroyed the DCtoDC board in my attempt at inverter archaeology.
2018-04-15 17.58.36-small.jpg
The inverter modules are in one nice and neat package. Unfortunately there is a bit to much integration in the electronics section. I only paid $210 each for all 6 of them so sacrificing one is not a big deal. The first board under the cover has the power/control section for the inverter as well as the control for the DCtoDC. What I am likely to end up doing is salvaging the really nice Infineon IGBT module from the inverter power section to build my own power module and using a DIY controller like the Lebowski or something of that nature. Both of my applications are likely to have 2 motors so that will be interesting.

Not sure what I'll use the battery modules for yet as I'll likely use 36S built with Volt modules for the two projects I am planning for the eAssist motors. They are in some pretty nice, albeit heavy for the capacity, 16S 500wH modules, 2 per package.

I'm just grateful for e-vektor putting in the effort he did to get these working as well as he did. For an average of ~$95/motor they are a steal because of him.

I put up a bunch of pictures earlier in the thread but for some reason only one of them actually shows up for me. Here is the link to a bunch more:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ygvy0u7b080f ... TTQna?dl=0

All of this will be kind of a trial run leading up to what I hope to do in the future that I mention above, integrate a Spark EV drive unit into my 3/4 ton pickup.

The beautiful Spark EV drive unit:
SparkEV-TransMotor.jpg
SparkEV-TransMotor.jpg (223.35 KiB) Viewed 1006 times

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Re: Buick Lacrosse 2012 e-assist moto-alternator

Post by Harold in CR » Apr 25 2018 12:49pm

The Lebowski controller is BLDC. Been there and all but begged him to figure the code for the ACID. Paul Holmes has an ACID controller as a DIY or preassembled without the power section, I believe, and Johannes Huebner has another. Huebners needs the encoder board added. Holmes might have added code to his for the encoder since I last contacted him. He needs an alternator to play with and he is soon to be unemployed, so, now might be a good time to send him one. His assembled brain board was/is $ 350.00 + S&H Arizona.

I have Volt modules also and would like to go 144v in my reverse tadpole motorcycle.
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Re: Buick Lacrosse 2012 e-assist moto-alternator

Post by themelon » Apr 25 2018 1:44pm

Harold in CR wrote:
Apr 25 2018 12:49pm
The Lebowski controller is BLDC. Been there and all but begged him to figure the code for the ACID. Paul Holmes has an ACID controller as a DIY or preassembled without the power section, I believe, and Johannes Huebner has another. Huebners needs the encoder board added. Holmes might have added code to his for the encoder since I last contacted him. He needs an alternator to play with and he is soon to be unemployed, so, now might be a good time to send him one. His assembled brain board was/is $ 350.00 + S&H Arizona.

I have Volt modules also and would like to go 144v in my reverse tadpole motorcycle.
I'd be willing to send Paul one if it helps

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Re: Buick Lacrosse 2012 e-assist moto-alternator

Post by parabellum » Apr 25 2018 1:50pm

Harold in CR wrote:
Apr 25 2018 12:49pm
The Lebowski controller is BLDC. Been there and all but begged him to figure the code for the ACID. Paul Holmes has an ACID controller as a DIY or preassembled without the power section, I believe, and Johannes Huebner has another. Huebners needs the encoder board added. Holmes might have added code to his for the encoder since I last contacted him. He needs an alternator to play with and he is soon to be unemployed, so, now might be a good time to send him one. His assembled brain board was/is $ 350.00 + S&H Arizona.

I have Volt modules also and would like to go 144v in my reverse tadpole motorcycle.
I hope his tread will be unlocked one day.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 34&t=75863

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Re: Buick Lacrosse 2012 e-assist moto-alternator

Post by Harold in CR » Apr 25 2018 2:16pm

Melon, I sent Paul a comment about your offer. If he accepts, I would gladly pay shipping. Thanks for your offer.
Harold
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Re: Buick Lacrosse 2012 e-assist moto-alternator

Post by themelon » Apr 25 2018 2:22pm

Harold in CR wrote:
Apr 25 2018 2:16pm
Melon, I sent Paul a comment about your offer. If he accepts, I would gladly pay shipping. Thanks for your offer.
Harold
No worries on the shipping. I can take care of that. I'd be happy just to get one into more experienced hands who can expand on what e-vector has done.

It's actually one reason I bought as many as I did and getting more around here is not difficult. Same goes for the inverter/DCtoDC package. If he can use that I will extract it from the battery module and send him both. I tend to go overboard when I get into this sort of stuff as I know I will destroy at least one unit simply by dissection. My employment status affords me to be able to do so and if giving someone who has the knowledge and experience help in the form of hardware I am happy to do so. It is usually my way of contributing to the community.

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Re: Buick Lacrosse 2012 e-assist moto-alternator

Post by liveforphysics » Apr 25 2018 8:44pm

I love seeing that attitude themelon!! Winning life!!
themelon wrote:
Apr 25 2018 2:22pm
Harold in CR wrote:
Apr 25 2018 2:16pm
Melon, I sent Paul a comment about your offer. If he accepts, I would gladly pay shipping. Thanks for your offer.
Harold
No worries on the shipping. I can take care of that. I'd be happy just to get one into more experienced hands who can expand on what e-vector has done.

It's actually one reason I bought as many as I did and getting more around here is not difficult. Same goes for the inverter/DCtoDC package. If he can use that I will extract it from the battery module and send him both. I tend to go overboard when I get into this sort of stuff as I know I will destroy at least one unit simply by dissection. My employment status affords me to be able to do so and if giving someone who has the knowledge and experience help in the form of hardware I am happy to do so. It is usually my way of contributing to the community.
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Re: Buick Lacrosse 2012 e-assist moto-alternator

Post by e-vektor » Apr 26 2018 5:33am

I contacted Pear Control to get more info about this controller, but no response. Anybody have more info?
I think it would be the ideal size for motorcycle, Kart and ATV applications

Image

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Re: Buick Lacrosse 2012 e-assist moto-alternator

Post by skeetab5780 » Apr 26 2018 6:48am

e-vektor wrote:
Apr 26 2018 5:33am
I contacted Pear Control to get more info about this controller, but no response. Anybody have more info?
I think it would be the ideal size for motorcycle, Kart and ATV applications

Image
That controller is tiny! Looks very interesting sub’d

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Re: Buick Lacrosse 2012 e-assist moto-alternator

Post by fechter » Apr 27 2018 8:26am

I had to look up PearControl. Apparently in Czech Republic. They seem to have a lot of interesting hardware.

http://pearcontrol.cz/en/products/motor ... propulsion
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Re: Buick Lacrosse 2012 e-assist moto-alternator

Post by coleasterling » Apr 27 2018 10:10am

I tried contacting them as well, nothing.

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Re: Buick Lacrosse 2012 e-assist moto-alternator

Post by Harold in CR » Apr 27 2018 10:33am

Maybe time difference ?
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Re: Buick Lacrosse 2012 e-assist moto-alternator

Post by coleasterling » Apr 27 2018 1:29pm

It was weeks ago for me.

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Re: Buick Lacrosse 2012 e-assist moto-alternator

Post by e-vektor » Apr 28 2018 2:33am

to me, it sounds like they are "prospecting" the market for a new product, but they probably have nothing yet.
I was searching their web page and they only have small drivers for servos and similar things.

Actually, I don't think the hardware for a controller like this is excessively difficult to be done, even for values of 400A or 500A, with modern MOSFETs (there are 300A single parts), but software is a huge time and money investment
coleasterling wrote:
Apr 27 2018 10:10am
I tried contacting them as well, nothing.

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Re: Buick Lacrosse 2012 e-assist moto-alternator

Post by coleasterling » Apr 29 2018 6:45pm

I know someone has gotten one in-hand, as I've seen it on their supermoto build thread. Must be a beta tester or the like.

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Re: Buick Lacrosse 2012 e-assist moto-alternator

Post by e-vektor » Apr 30 2018 11:32am

so does it work as they claim? (I think they declared about 500A)
do you have any information about wether it is going to be available soon?
coleasterling wrote:
Apr 29 2018 6:45pm
I know someone has gotten one in-hand, as I've seen it on their supermoto build thread. Must be a beta tester or the like.

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Re: Buick Lacrosse 2012 e-assist moto-alternator

Post by coleasterling » May 01 2018 9:59am

I'm not sure on that one. I'll see if I can find it again, as it was on Facebook and I'm terrible at navigating that site.

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Re: Buick Lacrosse 2012 e-assist moto-alternator

Post by bionicon » May 01 2018 12:29pm

This is the one with the pear controller:https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... ater&ifg=1

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Re: Buick Lacrosse 2012 e-assist moto-alternator

Post by e-vektor » May 07 2018 2:41pm

I started a separated topic for the ME1304 measurements on dyno, so it does not become mixed with this topic (Buick Lacrosse moto-alternator)

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=94143&p=1378323#p1378323
Last edited by e-vektor on May 12 2018 4:30pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Buick Lacrosse 2012 e-assist moto-alternator

Post by coleasterling » May 08 2018 12:22pm

bionicon wrote:
May 01 2018 12:29pm
This is the one with the pear controller:https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... ater&ifg=1
Yep, that's it! Thanks!

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Re: Buick Lacrosse 2012 e-assist moto-alternator

Post by transistorman » Jun 28 2018 4:28pm

Hi All,
I also grabbed an inverter+battery module from a local used parts dealer (LKQ) for the purposes of waking up the inverter and running the quite beautiful e-assist motor. The Igbt module is rated for whopping 400A, but alas they went pretty dense on the control electronics, with a BGA footprint controller for the 12v buck converter as well as a one for the 3phase inverter. Presently doing some reverse engineering

Has anyone located the Service Manual for the Buick Lacrosse [2012-2015]? Supposedly it has some wiring diagrams, which would be mighty helpful.

Some photos of the battery-inverter insides:
http://transistor-man.com/PhotoSet/buic ... -inverter/
Attachments
Lacrosse_inverter+12v_Buck.jpg

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