MXUS coming out with a 5K-Turbo motor, 55mm Magnets

Electric Motors and Controllers
Post Reply
User avatar
teslanv
100 MW
100 MW
Posts: 2809
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:42 pm

MXUS coming out with a 5K-Turbo motor, 55mm Magnets

Post by teslanv » Thu Dec 29, 2016 1:03 pm

Image

Image



MXUS sent me some info on a new motor they are going to be building, model number "XF5K"

It is a 55mm wide magnet design, which is 5mm wider than either the QS 205 or the Cromotor.

They rate it at "5000W"

Here are the specifications we know so far:

Stator Material: Unknown
# magnets/Pole Pairs: 32 magnets & 36 tooth stator design.
Magnet Height: 55mm
Standard Winding: 33x3T
Kv: 13.47 (970 RPM at 72V, 4A unloaded)
Rated Max. Torque: 110 Nm
Drop-out Width: 150mm, 220mm wide axle, overall. M16 X 1.5 Threading, with 10mm flats.
Weight: 13 Kilograms.
Single-Speed freewheel, M35x1 Threads.
Phase wires: 6mm2 (about 9 AWG)
Dual sets of hall sensors & KTY83/110 temperature sensors
Left side cover accepts disc brake rotors.

Stay tuned. More information to come! :D
Last edited by teslanv on Fri Dec 30, 2016 7:15 am, edited 4 times in total.
I build custom ebikes.
http://www.westcoastelectrics.com
West Coast Electric Cycles
Bellevue, WA
USA

User avatar
spinningmagnets
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 10709
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 10:27 pm

Re: MXUS coming out with a 5K motor, 55mm Magnets

Post by spinningmagnets » Thu Dec 29, 2016 1:21 pm

Well done. Good to see this...more options are always a good thing.

cwah
10 GW
10 GW
Posts: 4461
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2011 5:42 am

Re: MXUS coming out with a 5K motor, 55mm Magnets

Post by cwah » Thu Dec 29, 2016 1:53 pm

13kg is almost twice the weight of the mxus v3!
Help me find my stolen electric brompton: http://bit.ly/1a0vbBC and Bosch Sinus B3 http://bit.ly/1eV0WQz

User avatar
teslanv
100 MW
100 MW
Posts: 2809
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:42 pm

Re: MXUS coming out with a 5K motor, 55mm Magnets

Post by teslanv » Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:05 pm

MXUS 3K-Turbo is 9.3 Kg. so the 5K is about 40% heavier.
I build custom ebikes.
http://www.westcoastelectrics.com
West Coast Electric Cycles
Bellevue, WA
USA

User avatar
Samd
1.21 GW
1.21 GW
Posts: 3829
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:08 pm

MXUS coming out with a 5K motor, 55mm Magnets

Post by Samd » Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:37 pm

Thanks Barent, install width noted.
250mm spike dia. Nothing like and extra inch inside the flange up the rear.
http://ballaratebikes.com/

ImageImageImage
"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing that a 165mm rear shock can't deliver 220mm of rear swingarm travel." - Oprah Winfrey.

Alex07
100 W
100 W
Posts: 111
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2016 4:00 am

Re: MXUS coming out with a 5K motor, 55mm Magnets

Post by Alex07 » Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:12 pm

at "5000W"
is that continuous or peak power ? 13kg wow that's a boat anchor heavy...

User avatar
teslanv
100 MW
100 MW
Posts: 2809
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:42 pm

Re: MXUS coming out with a 5K motor, 55mm Magnets

Post by teslanv » Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:17 pm

Alex07 wrote:
at "5000W"
is that continuous or peak power ? 13kg wow that's a boat anchor heavy...
Based on weight alone, I'd say Continuous.

Lots of guys run the MXUS 3K-Turbo motors at over 14KW peak with the Adaptto Max-E.
I build custom ebikes.
http://www.westcoastelectrics.com
West Coast Electric Cycles
Bellevue, WA
USA

User avatar
teslanv
100 MW
100 MW
Posts: 2809
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:42 pm

Re: MXUS coming out with a 5K motor, 55mm Magnets

Post by teslanv » Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:33 pm

Sorry, I couldn't help myself... :mrgreen:

I build custom ebikes.
http://www.westcoastelectrics.com
West Coast Electric Cycles
Bellevue, WA
USA

User avatar
liveforphysics
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 14420
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:48 am

Re: MXUS coming out with a 5K motor, 55mm Magnets

Post by liveforphysics » Thu Dec 29, 2016 4:06 pm

If you're going to add mass to your EV, let it be copper/iron/magnet!
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

User avatar
madin88
10 MW
10 MW
Posts: 2294
Joined: Mon May 27, 2013 2:02 am

Re: MXUS coming out with a 5K-Turbo motor, 55mm Magnets

Post by madin88 » Fri Dec 30, 2016 3:32 am

thanks for keeping us informed about new stuff from MXUS! :)
LOL, the amp that goes to 11 is indeed similar to the watt rating bullshit of most motor companies..

250mm outer dia would mean a whole new stator.
on the drawing, the axle looks larger as 16mm, but i could be wrong..
i wonder if the spoke flange is made of aluminum (like the Greenpedel Motors)?
- Votec V-FR frame / MXUS 3T / 17" Mitas MC11 / Adaptto Max-E / 20s12p 25R -> approved as L1e moped and fully road legal in EU :)
- Vector white / MXUS 4T / 24" Hookworms / Adaptto Max-E / 22s11p 25R
- KTM Hardtail Pedelec / eZee V2 6T / 27,5" / Kelly KBSX @ 1,5kW / Torque PAS / CA-V3 / 13s4p Sanyo GA in Shark case

User avatar
burner77
100 W
100 W
Posts: 159
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:57 am

Re: MXUS coming out with a 5K-Turbo motor, 55mm Magnets

Post by burner77 » Fri Dec 30, 2016 3:47 am

Similar weight to the QS205 V3 …
http://fasterbikes.eu • Domino, MXUS V3 Turbo (with FF & HubSink) and Bafang BBSHD shop • 5% discount for ES forum members, use voucher "ESMEMBER"

User avatar
neptronix
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 13029
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 5:56 pm

Re: MXUS coming out with a 5K-Turbo motor, 55mm Magnets

Post by neptronix » Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:15 am

Would love to see a dyno sheet if you can get one out of mxus! Really curious to see what peak efficiency looks like on such a wide stator. This might be fun on a 50mph top speed motorcycle if a thicker axled version is available.
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The wheelie machine: 20" Rear Magic Pie II on a Trek 4300 MTB

"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now."- Chinese Proverb

User avatar
Rix
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 5923
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:26 am

Re: MXUS coming out with a 5K-Turbo motor, 55mm Magnets

Post by Rix » Sat Dec 31, 2016 10:39 am

Just what my Alpha needs
Stator Material: Unknown
# magnets/Pole Pairs: 32 magnets & 36 tooth stator design.
Magnet Height: 55mm
Standard Winding: 33x3T
Kv: 13.47 (970 RPM at 72V, 4A unloaded)
Rated Max. Torque: 110 Nm
Drop-out Width: 150mm, 220mm wide axle, overall. M16 X 1.5 Threading, with 10mm flats.
Weight: 13 Kilograms.
Single-Speed freewheel, M35x1 Threads.
Phase wires: 6mm2 (about 9 AWG)
Dual sets of hall sensors & KTY83/110 temperature sensors
Left side cover accepts disc brake rotors.
With that KV rating, this would be an excellent 12S to 16S motor, bring on the amps!

Edit Still lighter than a 54xx.
Last edited by Rix on Sat Dec 31, 2016 10:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

litespeed
100 kW
100 kW
Posts: 1225
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2010 4:42 pm

Re: MXUS coming out with a 5K-Turbo motor, 55mm Magnets

Post by litespeed » Sat Dec 31, 2016 11:57 am

What bothers me is the itty bitty phase wires. The 3000 watt QS 205 V3 has 10mm and this new 5000 watt 55mm MXUS has 6mm? Basically a 7 gauge wire for the QS and an 9 gauge for the MXUS. That seems to always be the downside of MXUS. Now I know that a wider stator will make more torque/power but at the end of the day under sized wires is just that, undersized. Specially or should I say specifically for this crowd here of over volting & over amping abusing what ever they can with too many electrons being stuffed in things they don't belong in! I do however love to see it and recommend it on a daily basis. Nothing better than a "watch this" moment.

When you look at the 4000 watt QS273 Ebike motor it has 16mm sq wires which is about 5 gauge.....good gawd!

I'm not saying this isn't awesome but it looks like inflated "horsepower" wars and consumer mass confusion.

Tom
I'm married so you know I'm no stranger to pain!

User avatar
teslanv
100 MW
100 MW
Posts: 2809
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:42 pm

Re: MXUS coming out with a 5K-Turbo motor, 55mm Magnets

Post by teslanv » Sat Dec 31, 2016 3:25 pm

litespeed wrote:What bothers me is the itty bitty phase wires. The 3000 watt QS 205 V3 has 10mm and this new 5000 watt 55mm MXUS has 6mm? Basically a 7 gauge wire for the QS and an 9 gauge for the MXUS. That seems to always be the downside of MXUS. Now I know that a wider stator will make more torque/power but at the end of the day under sized wires is just that, undersized. Specially or should I say specifically for this crowd here of over volting & over amping abusing what ever they can with too many electrons being stuffed in things they don't belong in! I do however love to see it and recommend it on a daily basis. Nothing better than a "watch this" moment.

When you look at the 4000 watt QS273 Ebike motor it has 16mm sq wires which is about 5 gauge.....good gawd!

I'm not saying this isn't awesome but it looks like inflated "horsepower" wars and consumer mass confusion.

Tom
With a 33X3T winding, the total cross-sectional area of the motor's windings is 6.47mm2 so a 6mm2 phase wire size is slightly undersized. Put in other words, the phase wires will get hotter than the windings.
I build custom ebikes.
http://www.westcoastelectrics.com
West Coast Electric Cycles
Bellevue, WA
USA

User avatar
madin88
10 MW
10 MW
Posts: 2294
Joined: Mon May 27, 2013 2:02 am

Re: MXUS coming out with a 5K-Turbo motor, 55mm Magnets

Post by madin88 » Sun Jan 01, 2017 1:02 pm

teslanv wrote: With a 33X3T winding, the total cross-sectional area of the motor's windings is 6.47mm2 so a 6mm2 phase wire size is slightly undersized. Put in other words, the phase wires will get hotter than the windings.
In real world, the phase wires wouldn't even be hot to touch when the windings already turned into plasma. The phases wires normally will give off many times more heat compared to the coils.
What i don't like is the voltage drop and the involved decrease in "torque stiffness". For 5T or higher turn winding it would be OK.

Is it 205mm stator now or, wider?
From the 225mm OD of the back iron it might be the case, but the large 265mm outermost dia is a bit strange..
- Votec V-FR frame / MXUS 3T / 17" Mitas MC11 / Adaptto Max-E / 20s12p 25R -> approved as L1e moped and fully road legal in EU :)
- Vector white / MXUS 4T / 24" Hookworms / Adaptto Max-E / 22s11p 25R
- KTM Hardtail Pedelec / eZee V2 6T / 27,5" / Kelly KBSX @ 1,5kW / Torque PAS / CA-V3 / 13s4p Sanyo GA in Shark case

User avatar
Samd
1.21 GW
1.21 GW
Posts: 3829
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:08 pm

Re: MXUS coming out with a 5K-Turbo motor, 55mm Magnets

Post by Samd » Sun Jan 01, 2017 4:10 pm

Madin i am interested in that. This has puzzled me before.

Why not match phase wire cross section to windings? Why would their resistance be higher?

Seems to be two schools of thought here.

7kw sine wave infineon at 22s i to my v2 mxus and the outside cables never get painful to touch (65c external)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
http://ballaratebikes.com/

ImageImageImage
"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing that a 165mm rear shock can't deliver 220mm of rear swingarm travel." - Oprah Winfrey.

User avatar
teslanv
100 MW
100 MW
Posts: 2809
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:42 pm

Re: MXUS coming out with a 5K-Turbo motor, 55mm Magnets

Post by teslanv » Sun Jan 01, 2017 4:20 pm

Samd wrote:Madin i am interested in that. This has puzzled me before.

Why not match phase wire cross section to windings? Why would their resistance be higher?

Seems to be two schools of thought here.

7kw sine wave infineon at 22s i to my v2 mxus and the outside cables never get painful to touch (65c external)
If I understand madin's comments, it's that the phase wires are able to shed heat better than the windings, assumedly because they more open to outside air, and not contained inside the motor housing.

I can appreciate wanting to minimize the resistance in all aspects of motor wiring, from Battery to controller and from controller to motor. I guess mostly, it comes down to how hard you want to push the motor. I find that my riding habits do not necessitate having massive wiring, since I am fairly easy on the throttle.

Whereas on our racing bicycles, we go overboard on all of this, even to the extent that we strategize on how best to configure the high C-rate LiPo packs and bus-bar to minimize voltage sag under 250A+ Loads.
I build custom ebikes.
http://www.westcoastelectrics.com
West Coast Electric Cycles
Bellevue, WA
USA

User avatar
spinningmagnets
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 10709
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 10:27 pm

Re: MXUS coming out with a 5K-Turbo motor, 55mm Magnets

Post by spinningmagnets » Sun Jan 01, 2017 6:21 pm

There's nothing wrong with the QS 273, but if this motor and the 273 are both limited by the same power levels, I'd rather have this one, due to longer spokes. Also, I'm not going to say this motor is "stealthy", bit it is certainly smaller in diameter over the 273. Having a wider stator is a "less obvious" way to add copper mass.

A squirt of Ferro Fluid wouldn't hurt it, I suppose.

markz
10 GW
10 GW
Posts: 4642
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:38 pm

Re: MXUS coming out with a 5K-Turbo motor, 55mm Magnets

Post by markz » Mon Jan 02, 2017 10:17 pm

This is all Very Very Very interesting.
I wonder when it will be released and what the wholesale price will be.

Perhaps they will come out with a 5K-Turbo with curved magnets, if that even makes a difference. I doubt it does. Is there any proof that the curved magnets make a difference. I guess the only way to know is to send Justin a sample. Well I hope the 5K Turbo is not much more $ then the their 3kw motor. I'd buy one from them again.

Off-Topic - They got a BBS03 on there, but realize they got some massive overlaps on their products, meaning they got countless products that I believe are the same. I keep seeing 250W, 350W, 400W "mid drive" 8 fun over and over again. The highest one I have seen so far one 1000W and one 750W. Oh I just noticed in the title of one it states 1000W but in the details its Wattage: 301 - 400w :lol: frock
I always had a hard time navigating their website. I guess I will sling them an email and enquire.

User avatar
Quokka
100 W
100 W
Posts: 287
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 7:44 am

Re: MXUS coming out with a 5K-Turbo motor, 55mm Magnets

Post by Quokka » Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:00 am

Subd
Qulbix Q76R+ QS205+MaxE

User avatar
Rix
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 5923
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:26 am

Re: MXUS coming out with a 5K-Turbo motor, 55mm Magnets

Post by Rix » Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:47 am

teslanv wrote:[img]http://
[i

MXUS sent me some info on a new motor they are going to be building, model number "XF5K"

It is a 55mm wide magnet design, which is 5mm wider than either the QS 205 or the Cromotor.

They rate it at "5000W"

Here are the specifications we know so far:

Stator Material: Unknown
# magnets/Pole Pairs: 32 magnets & 36 tooth stator design.
Magnet Height: 55mm
Standard Winding: 33x3T
Kv: 13.47 (970 RPM at 72V, 4A unloaded)
Rated Max. Torque: 110 Nm
Drop-out Width: 150mm, 220mm wide axle, overall. M16 X 1.5 Threading, with 10mm flats.
Weight: 13 Kilograms.
Single-Speed freewheel, M35x1 Threads.
Phase wires: 6mm2 (about 9 AWG)
Dual sets of hall sensors & KTY83/110 temperature sensors
Left side cover accepts disc brake rotors.

Stay tuned. More information to come! :D
I am wondering with the KV rating as high as it is if this motor would benefit from say a 25x4T winding? I am guessing that would bring the KV down to around the "10ish" range :?: .

User avatar
teslanv
100 MW
100 MW
Posts: 2809
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:42 pm

Re: MXUS coming out with a 5K-Turbo motor, 55mm Magnets

Post by teslanv » Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:56 am

Rix wrote:
I am wondering with the KV rating as high as it is if this motor would benefit from say a 25x4T winding? I am guessing that would bring the KV down to around the "10ish" range :?: .
I don't see why not. A 25X4T winding would likely get the Kv down to around 10, if my math is good.

Here are my mathematical estimates of Winding to Kv for all windings of the 5K motor design:

33X3T = 13.47 Kv, Max continuous Phase current of 198A
25X4T = 10.07 Kv, Max continuous Phase current of 150A
20X5T = 8.05 Kv, Max continuous Phase current of 120A
16X6T = 6.71 Kv, Max continuous Phase current of 96A
Last edited by teslanv on Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I build custom ebikes.
http://www.westcoastelectrics.com
West Coast Electric Cycles
Bellevue, WA
USA

User avatar
Rix
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 5923
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:26 am

Re: MXUS coming out with a 5K-Turbo motor, 55mm Magnets

Post by Rix » Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:51 pm

teslanv wrote:
Rix wrote:
I am wondering with the KV rating as high as it is if this motor would benefit from say a 25x4T winding? I am guessing that would bring the KV down to around the "10ish" range :?: .
I don't see why not. A 25X4T winding would likely get the Kv down to around 10, if my math is good.

Here are my mathematical estimates of Winding to Kv for all windings of the 5K motor design:

33X3T = 13.47 Kv, Max continuous Phase current of 198A
25X4T = 10.07 Kv, Max continuous Phase current of 150A
20X5T = 8.05 Kv, Max continuous Phase current of 120A
16X6T = 6.71 Kv, Max continuous Phase current of 96A

And here is my Spreadsheet / Calculations if anyone is curious.


MXUS 5K Winding simulator.ods
I guess my next question would be: Is Kinaye Motorsports going to be getting these in and if so, when? And do you think I can get a 25x4T wind?

User avatar
Samd
1.21 GW
1.21 GW
Posts: 3829
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:08 pm

Re: MXUS coming out with a 5K-Turbo motor, 55mm Magnets

Post by Samd » Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:44 pm

Barent and I have asked for samples and trying to firm up timing. The only one in existence is a CNC sample.

I am hoping everyone has noticed the magnet and spoke radius - it won't be a stealthy unit to hide behind a 203mm brake rotor. Haha!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
http://ballaratebikes.com/

ImageImageImage
"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing that a 165mm rear shock can't deliver 220mm of rear swingarm travel." - Oprah Winfrey.

Post Reply