MXUS coming out with a 5K-Turbo motor, 55mm Magnets

Electric Motors and Controllers
User avatar
neptronix
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 13029
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 5:56 pm

Re: MXUS coming out with a 5K-Turbo motor, 55mm Magnets

Post by neptronix » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:15 am

Yeah, this is the motor that people are going to get in real trouble with. I'm actually rather surprised that with the availability of the QS motors and the like, that somebody hasn't made national news for doing something stupid in public view yet.

I still like and support the idea of building an insanely powerful, high speed electric bike.. but as with a 1000cc motorcycle, it's going to take a rider with discipline to not draw negative attention in public, which will trigger a crackdown on electric bikes in the USA and elsewhere.

That being said, this motor is awesome. If i was doing a motorcycle conversion today, it's most likely what i'd go with, for an in-town cruiser that tops out at 50mph. I'd rather put it on a motorcycle than a bicycle, because you could rest assured that there's no legal issues there.
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The wheelie machine: 20" Rear Magic Pie II on a Trek 4300 MTB

"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now."- Chinese Proverb

rumme
1 kW
1 kW
Posts: 405
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 7:47 pm

Re: MXUS coming out with a 5K-Turbo motor, 55mm Magnets

Post by rumme » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:19 am

neptronix wrote:Yeah, this is the motor that people are going to get in real trouble with. I'm actually rather surprised that with the availability of the QS motors and the like, that somebody hasn't made national news for doing something stupid in public view yet.

.
That time is drawing nearer every day. IMHO, there is no way in hell, that the leniency on ebikers will continue to last forever. These ebike motors are getting more powerful and less expensive as time goes on. Fools in society will abuse these advancements and eventually we will see severe accidents/ fatalities which will draw the attention of :

LAW ENFORCEMENT
POLITCIANS
INSURANCE LOBBYSISTS

Then the backroom deals will ensue , where those groups will agree that there are unseen REVENUES , to be collected on behalf of ebikers. but of course those new laws will be presented as being done to just " protect the people" ROFL.

I fully expect that the time will come, where ebikers are forced to purchase a yearly tag or some type of liability insurance.

Just imagine the glee a teenager will have, when they realize they can ride a ebike capable of 50 mph , on the roads, to their friends house, to their part time jobs with them also knowing they can use that means of transportation without paying for
gas, oil, tags, insurance , etc.

Eventually, this type of leniency, will be stopped.

User avatar
neptronix
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 13029
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 5:56 pm

Re: MXUS coming out with a 5K-Turbo motor, 55mm Magnets

Post by neptronix » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:43 am

Fully enjoy the liberty you have while it exists, otherwise you'll miss the chance.

Laws are generally written to keep the stupidest people in any society from killing themselves or others. Eventually the stupid will force the creation new laws, or enforcement of existing laws. We're not there yet, so enjoy your insanely dangerous high speed bike while you still can.
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The wheelie machine: 20" Rear Magic Pie II on a Trek 4300 MTB

"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now."- Chinese Proverb

rumme
1 kW
1 kW
Posts: 405
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 7:47 pm

Re: MXUS coming out with a 5K-Turbo motor, 55mm Magnets

Post by rumme » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:56 am

neptronix wrote:Fully enjoy the liberty you have while it exists, otherwise you'll miss the chance.

Laws are generally written to keep the stupidest people in any society from killing themselves or others. Eventually the stupid will force the creation new laws, or enforcement of existing laws. We're not there yet, so enjoy your insanely dangerous high speed bike while you still can.
Exactly. Ironically , I seldom go faster then 25 mph on my ebike though it can do 35 mph. I like 17 mph the best...its a good cruising speed, allows me to enjoy the scenary
and has less wind resistance.

I expect within the next 3-5 years, there will be new legislation addressing ebikers . As these 40 + mph ebikes become more common and easy to purchase, it will guarantee
tragic accidents are on the way.

User avatar
madin88
10 MW
10 MW
Posts: 2294
Joined: Mon May 27, 2013 2:02 am

Re: MXUS coming out with a 5K-Turbo motor, 55mm Magnets

Post by madin88 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:07 am

Rix wrote:Maddin, I missed this earlier, but when you say "21% more torque reserves" are you referring to increased work load and thrust potential?
I am simple referring to the larger stator.
Motors with same kV have same kT, ok? :wink:
This means that up to a given phase current, both motors will produce the same torque.
But once saturation of the iron core is reached, the torque will no more rise proportional with the current.
On the smaller QSV3 this happens earlier than on the MXUS 5k.

Or with other words: if an increase of the current is getting already useless on the QSV3, the torque on the 5K would still increase with the current.

roughly it is like this:
2 times the stator width = 2 times more torque capeable
2 times the stator diameter = 4 times more torque capeable
- Votec V-FR frame / MXUS 3T / 17" Mitas MC11 / Adaptto Max-E / 20s12p 25R -> approved as L1e moped and fully road legal in EU :)
- Vector white / MXUS 4T / 24" Hookworms / Adaptto Max-E / 22s11p 25R
- KTM Hardtail Pedelec / eZee V2 6T / 27,5" / Kelly KBSX @ 1,5kW / Torque PAS / CA-V3 / 13s4p Sanyo GA in Shark case

markz
10 GW
10 GW
Posts: 4642
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:38 pm

Re: MXUS coming out with a 5K-Turbo motor, 55mm Magnets

Post by markz » Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:40 pm

Motor Simulator at ebikes.ca the closest would be Crystalye 5403 as the 5K is 55xx

I will donate to a fund to send one motor to Justin at ebikes.ca to get the motor onto the Motor Simulator pull down list.

User avatar
sn0wchyld
1 MW
1 MW
Posts: 1712
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:27 pm

Re: MXUS coming out with a 5K-Turbo motor, 55mm Magnets

Post by sn0wchyld » Wed Aug 02, 2017 2:50 am

rumme wrote:
Ianhill wrote:One way to get around it is to buy a genuine ebike then just keep it within power limits but 350w in a dd hub motor is neither hear no there barely makes up for its own weight at that power level.
And this would only be checked at most in city areas I can't see speed traps and police waiting on bike tracks waste of time and money.
cops would not need to setup speed traps, to pull over ebikers or give tickets. if a officer just saw a ebike, that looked to be going at a high rate of speed, that is enough for the officer to pull you over . As far as your claims that officers would not waste time for such things , I disagree. If they will pull you over for not wearing a seatbelt and give you a $70 ticket for it , then why wouldn't they do the same for a ebiker, if there is revenue to be extorted thru a ticket ?
or they can just do what they do here - up the fine to make it worth their while. No steatbelt here attracts a $415 fine and 3 points, plus another $355 for a passenger not wearing one (for the passenger and the driver)... :evil:. Never been fined for such a thing myself, but still seems far in excess of the 'crime'.

markz
10 GW
10 GW
Posts: 4642
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:38 pm

Re: MXUS coming out with a 5K-Turbo motor, 55mm Magnets

Post by markz » Thu Aug 03, 2017 1:45 pm

MXUS 5000W is a whopping 13kg (28.7lbs) 55mm Magnets, 250mm dia hub $300 motor
MXUS 3000W is a whopping 9.3kg (20.6lbs) 50mm Magnets, 231mm dia hub $300 motor
Leaf 1500W is a whopping 7.18kg (15.9lbs) 35mm Magnets, 243mm dia hub $175 motor + $108 s/h

5mm difference in Magnet height with 8 lbs difference between the MXUS motors.

User avatar
macribs
1 GW
1 GW
Posts: 3098
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:59 pm

Re: MXUS coming out with a 5K-Turbo motor, 55mm Magnets

Post by macribs » Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:00 pm

The 5K turbo was not designed to be petite. My guess is they didn't really see much problem adding extra weight as the weight is not only dead weight but thermal masses too. So if people will run higher current into the 5K T then they would the mxus 3K then the added mass might help a bit with heat saturation. And adding ferrofluid and heatsinks should help even more.

I am looking forward to see some tests of this motor, how it perform, what kind of current it can take and how it stands up against say the qs 205.

ewinters
1 W
1 W
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:46 am

Re: MXUS coming out with a 5K-Turbo motor, 55mm Magnets

Post by ewinters » Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:39 pm

Agree with the enlightened posts above. Came to see pictures of the motor, saw pictures of the future. Mind blown

Enviado de meu XT1650 usando Tapatalk

markz
10 GW
10 GW
Posts: 4642
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:38 pm

Re: MXUS coming out with a 5K-Turbo motor, 55mm Magnets

Post by markz » Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:22 pm

The cooling capacity of the 5K motor mass will be awesome.
Its a throttle only motor, I bet the drag is pretty high when no throttle is applied.

User avatar
teslanv
100 MW
100 MW
Posts: 2809
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:42 pm

Re: MXUS coming out with a 5K-Turbo motor, 55mm Magnets

Post by teslanv » Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:11 pm

markz wrote:MXUS 5000W is a whopping 13kg (28.7lbs) 55mm Magnets, 250mm dia hub $300 motor
MXUS 3000W is a whopping 9.3kg (20.6lbs) 50mm Magnets, 231mm dia hub $300 motor
Leaf 1500W is a whopping 7.18kg (15.9lbs) 35mm Magnets, 243mm dia hub $175 motor + $108 s/h

5mm difference in Magnet height with 8 lbs difference between the MXUS motors.
MXUS 5K = 55mm Stator
MXUS 3K = 45mm stator (10mm less wide)
Leaf = 35mm Stator (20mm less wide)

I can't argue with the fact that the 5K is a big fat pig of a motor. Better heat-sinking? - Sure. More unsuspended weight? - Afraid so.
I build custom ebikes.
http://www.westcoastelectrics.com
West Coast Electric Cycles
Bellevue, WA
USA

User avatar
macribs
1 GW
1 GW
Posts: 3098
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:59 pm

Re: MXUS coming out with a 5K-Turbo motor, 55mm Magnets

Post by macribs » Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:45 pm

Big fat pig it is the 5K T, but then there are even bigger and fatter pigs out there. For that added weight to make sense we should see a rather big improvement in torque and power or at least heat removal over say mxus 3K. I got to say a review of this motor is overdue.

Have anyone actually gotten their hands on one of the 5K T motors yet, or are the mxus crew still blaming the paint issues?

User avatar
Ianhill
100 kW
100 kW
Posts: 1117
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2015 5:55 pm

Re: MXUS coming out with a 5K-Turbo motor, 55mm Magnets

Post by Ianhill » Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:00 pm

macribs wrote:Big fat pig it is the 5K T, but then there are even bigger and fatter pigs out there. For that added weight to make sense we should see a rather big improvement in torque and power or at least heat removal over say mxus 3K. I got to say a review of this motor is overdue.

Have anyone actually gotten their hands on one of the 5K T motors yet, or are the mxus crew still blaming the paint issues?
Haha I only got to look at the paint on my 3k and it scratches, for me if I'm not pedaling along and it's a pure motorbike then the motor in the wheel makes no sence.
It's handy to put a motor I'm the wheel on a pushbike so pedaling along is easier to sort out but we all know the heat troubles hubs have.
I would never use hub on anything I didnt want to pedal along with.
Cheap 1600w brushless inrunners can take massive abuse with better thermal paths to the aluminium and that then can shed hest to air and placing the magnets in the centre means the heat radiates away from them through the lams and direct to the outer case and into the frame if the mounts surface area is great enough no ferrofluid involved.
A big block is a decent motor design if the laminations was thinner and it had built in forced air, tighter air gap tolerances and added alu in selected places to increases heat sink there's no reason why that type of design for the same weight as the mxus 5k could have 15kw nominal and 25kw comfortable bursts no crazy materials needed or water Cooling just a rugged design that takes the shit one gives it.

Id build the motor with the diy builder in mind so it could be bought in kit form then assemble and tweaked by each builder so everyone gets a chance to put their own touch on it and chose to learn as much as they like with a technical assembly video showing differing methods of achieving a wind that suits the builders needs everyone loves a build along and clever clogs like to either gob off call it crap or buy it and add their own touches like I have.

markz
10 GW
10 GW
Posts: 4642
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:38 pm

Re: MXUS coming out with a 5K-Turbo motor, 55mm Magnets

Post by markz » Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:33 pm

Teslanv's got me thinking about unsprung weight now with this heavy motor.
Gotta do some more reading up on it.

My original statement would have been, weight doesn't matter with that much power. And its true, when racing. But we aint talking about downhill ski mountain, riding either. Nor air time, cliff diving. Most likely its road riding and hill climbing with easy trail riding. 100% throttle no pedaling. Fat bike would be good to eat up the bumps.

rumme
1 kW
1 kW
Posts: 405
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 7:47 pm

Re: MXUS coming out with a 5K-Turbo motor, 55mm Magnets

Post by rumme » Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:34 pm

markz wrote:MXUS 5000W is a whopping 13kg (28.7lbs) 55mm Magnets, 250mm dia hub $300 motor
MXUS 3000W is a whopping 9.3kg (20.6lbs) 50mm Magnets, 231mm dia hub $300 motor
Leaf 1500W is a whopping 7.18kg (15.9lbs) 35mm Magnets, 243mm dia hub $175 motor + $108 s/h

5mm difference in Magnet height with 8 lbs difference between the MXUS motors.

This question may have been covered before but Is it logical, if someone just wanted a 5k nominal motor , to purchase a 3k rated nominal motor, then use ferro fluid and heat sinks, to allow it to cool much better so it can probably now be run at 5k nominal, compared to just buying a 5k nominal motor, which is gonna weigh more ? This is the route I have went, on a new build soon to be completed.

User avatar
Ianhill
100 kW
100 kW
Posts: 1117
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2015 5:55 pm

Re: MXUS coming out with a 5K-Turbo motor, 55mm Magnets

Post by Ianhill » Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:51 pm

markz wrote:Teslanv's got me thinking about unsprung weight now with this heavy motor.
Gotta do some more reading up on it.

My original statement would have been, weight doesn't matter with that much power. And its true, when racing. But we aint talking about downhill ski mountain, riding either. Nor air time, cliff diving. Most likely its road riding and hill climbing with easy trail riding. 100% throttle no pedaling. Fat bike would be good to eat up the bumps.
Some top end mountain bikes are coming with pinion gearboxes and using a gates belt system to get 600% gearing and have as low sprung weight as possible and riders have said over trials the rear end takes some getting used to but at the moment cassete are highly refined lighter overall and cheaper but the gearbox moves the weight to a more static area.

That's why my a2b metro will see no off road trails riding just a moderate dirt path and I will simplify by removing the derailer and gearing so I feel efficent peddling as the motor is spinning in its efficent zone to for simple as possible and reliable but I'm aware the rear will not be able to fast react over humps or through a rythem section so it's purely a commuter and that's what I'm building so it suits me to the T.

The only thing stopping me from going to a mid drive setup is the 3/32 or 1/18 chain coping with me pedaling and say 3kw from a motor on top and it goes snap so that's a pain in the arse I could do with out I'm building an endurance champion not a high speed mental machine otherwise I'd be looking at going dual chain to the rear one for me on a freewheel the other the motor but then i wouldnt be pedaling often due to crazy speeds and not being able to keep up or give an real benifit so weight savings would give a better ride to simplify to motor only as most stock ebikes are hybrids but it's down to us to actually pedal not just be carried like the queen.

rumme
1 kW
1 kW
Posts: 405
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 7:47 pm

Re: MXUS coming out with a 5K-Turbo motor, 55mm Magnets

Post by rumme » Sat Aug 05, 2017 6:49 pm

[quote="markz"]Teslanv's got me thinking about unsprung weight now with this heavy motor.
Gotta do some more reading up on it.

quote]

This is why I asked if its a good option to go with a lighter weight 3k nominal - 3t motor....then add ferro fluid and aluminum heat sinks which may allow it to perform at 5k nominal .....using a 60 volt LI-ION battery that can pump out 80 amps continuous .

User avatar
ridethelightning
1 MW
1 MW
Posts: 1771
Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:48 pm

Re: MXUS coming out with a 5K-Turbo motor, 55mm Magnets

Post by ridethelightning » Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:26 am

rumme wrote:This is why I asked if its a good option to go with a lighter weight 3k nominal - 3t motor....then add ferro fluid and aluminum heat sinks which may allow it to perform at 5k nominal .....using a 60 volt LI-ION battery that can pump out 80 amps continuous .
this sounds like a reasonable request of the 3k with fins and ff, just so long as the phase wires are up to it or can be upgraded to be. how continuous for how long are we talking? :lol:

rumme
1 kW
1 kW
Posts: 405
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 7:47 pm

Re: MXUS coming out with a 5K-Turbo motor, 55mm Magnets

Post by rumme » Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:20 am

ridethelightning wrote:
rumme wrote:This is why I asked if its a good option to go with a lighter weight 3k nominal - 3t motor....then add ferro fluid and aluminum heat sinks which may allow it to perform at 5k nominal .....using a 60 volt LI-ION battery that can pump out 80 amps continuous .
this sounds like a reasonable request of the 3k with fins and ff, just so long as the phase wires are up to it or can be upgraded to be. how continuous for how long are we talking? :lol:

For my situation, Id be looking at pushing a 3k - 3t rated motor @ 5k with ferro fluid added and heat sinks , for 1 minute or less continuous. This may be possible with just adding ferro fluid in air temperatures 80 degrees farenheit or less.

Punx0r
10 GW
10 GW
Posts: 4232
Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 8:16 am

Re: MXUS coming out with a 5K-Turbo motor, 55mm Magnets

Post by Punx0r » Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:59 am

With respect guys, a continuous power rating means the motor is at thermal equilibrium and effectively means indefinite time-wise, but normally means at least an hour.

Thermal mass is good for transients (peaks), as it helps average out the internal temperature but won't affect the continuous rating, which is determined only by the ability to shed heat to the environment.

User avatar
macribs
1 GW
1 GW
Posts: 3098
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:59 pm

Re: MXUS coming out with a 5K-Turbo motor, 55mm Magnets

Post by macribs » Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:46 am

Not to be rude dude, but I don't get. You feel the 5K turbo is not for you. Yet you keep posting in this thread? Move on bro, find another motor you like. There are motors for everyone, for every need or at least close to it. No point in posting here telling why you think this motor is a bad idea.

User avatar
madin88
10 MW
10 MW
Posts: 2294
Joined: Mon May 27, 2013 2:02 am

Re: MXUS coming out with a 5K-Turbo motor, 55mm Magnets

Post by madin88 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:14 am

Punx0r wrote: Thermal mass is good for transients (peaks), as it helps average out the internal temperature but won't affect the continuous rating, which is determined only by the ability to shed heat to the environment.
exactly! and more thermal mass also means longer time for cooling.
I always would accept less possible peak power time for lower weight on a hub drive.
- Votec V-FR frame / MXUS 3T / 17" Mitas MC11 / Adaptto Max-E / 20s12p 25R -> approved as L1e moped and fully road legal in EU :)
- Vector white / MXUS 4T / 24" Hookworms / Adaptto Max-E / 22s11p 25R
- KTM Hardtail Pedelec / eZee V2 6T / 27,5" / Kelly KBSX @ 1,5kW / Torque PAS / CA-V3 / 13s4p Sanyo GA in Shark case

litespeed
100 kW
100 kW
Posts: 1224
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2010 4:42 pm

Re: MXUS coming out with a 5K-Turbo motor, 55mm Magnets

Post by litespeed » Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:14 pm

I'm the complete opposite. I don't mind some extra weight for better thermal management. I'm 6'4" and 210 physically fit lbs....to me the little weight penalty is important for a longer ride. For a smaller person the weight penalty makes a bigger impact and less wattage is needed to move said mass. All pretty elementary/obvious in my opinion.

My QS205/MaxE in my Vector framed bike with 20s15p, motorcycle rims/tires blah, blah, blah (as I have stated before!) weighs in at around 120/125 lbs (bathroom scale!) which is super light for me. When I was running the MXUS 3k it didn't have quite enough balls for excitement and heated up way to fast. To its defense I didn't have Hubsinks and Ferrofluid like I do on the QS but powerwise for a guy my size........size does matter. :twisted: I have a hard time feeling much of a difference on 90% of my riding which is on hard surfaces with the QS vs the MXUS but on single track/jumps/curbs it was notable. I quickly adapted and found I am riding at the same speeds as before.

Now going to something heavier does have me concerned otherwise I'd probably have a QS273 bolted out back....

Tom
I'm married so you know I'm no stranger to pain!

markz
10 GW
10 GW
Posts: 4642
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:38 pm

Re: MXUS coming out with a 5K-Turbo motor, 55mm Magnets

Post by markz » Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:07 pm

Whats the price difference in motor between the MXUS 5K and equivelant QS motor?

Post Reply