How can we make custom tuned ES edition motors a reality?

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Rix
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Re: How can we make custom tuned ES edition motors a reality

Post by Rix » Apr 06, 2017 9:46 pm

markz wrote:I have casually read a few of these thread topics and its a noble idea, but price is always a factor.

From what I gathered, the laminations could be done at a reasonable cost, but to get them thinner I have no idea.
The axle could be a custom piece done by a home hobbyist with a lathe, same goes for the cover plates. Wouldnt it then be possible to outsource that end of it to China, some smaller shop could definately do it, but then how do you go about finding that local smaller shop to lathe up some axles and cover plates. I really dont see that as an issue to get done, but how much would that add to the price. Then while we are at it, why not have a huge solid piece of alum inside for a massive heat sink, there is no air movement in there, unless you drill holes, but a solid junk of alum would be good right.

Axle
Cover Plates
Bearings
Laminations
Stator
Winding
Agree with MarkZ

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Re: How can we make custom tuned ES edition motors a reality

Post by markz » Apr 06, 2017 9:58 pm

You know what comes to mind, is that Croatian guy/company Cromotor, dont they just buy generic motors then upgrade them either in house or by some other means.

I have looked at people making their own motor, and it really doesnt seem that hard if you have all the tools. I will try to find that youtube video, they look to be Ukrainian or Russian. Awesome video. Ah my memory serves me.

Its not this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LNfDI3QUpQ
This is it Ukraine - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKjZgAvZAwM
Its like a 4 or 5 part series, this is 2 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kOMIuP75WU
I have always been fascinated with how this guy built his. Simple process.

I would say if someone has a lathe, and a little experience, why not do up a prototype.

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Re: How can we make custom tuned ES edition motors a reality

Post by macribs » Apr 08, 2017 11:03 am

Great chain of thoughts Markz, a prototype would be golden.
On the other hand it seems #Crossbreaks CB120 thread got new wind, and his mid drive might be out in august. Maybe we should all gather in on one project and focus all energy on one custom motor rather then spread us thin on various motors? He is doing a mid drive, that is not a problem for me. I don't what others feel?

Also I am not certain what kind of output is expected from the CB120 the CB 120 mid motor. Hopefully >12 kw peak.

In the meantime if anyone with skills and free time could do a prototype of ie a QS 205 or maybe the new mxus 55 Turbo? If maybe we can donate cash together so we take the cost of getting the stock motor, and the prototypee(?) don't have financial outlay for a motor? What you guys think?

1: Anyone with me to donate cash for a donor/stock motor so we can have a prototype?

2: Is there anyone with a lathe and skills that could do a prototype? Or better yet we could split the load between more then one person?

I don't think we need to outline every tiny details before we see what people think of these 2 questions, if we get positive response we can go further and hammer out the details, maybe one can mill the back iron, another do the custom axle, and one do the side covers? I know it can be risky to divide tasks like this, if one drops out we can be stuck'd with an uncomplete prototype. Yet in order to minimize the work load and burden from one person take the whole prototyping we might get more interest if we split up project into smaller parts.

Feel free to comment, and pls response to the 2 questions as well.

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Re: How can we make custom tuned ES edition motors a reality

Post by Jestronix » Aug 27, 2017 9:16 am

Let's revive this

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Re: How can we make custom tuned ES edition motors a reality

Post by teslanv » Aug 27, 2017 9:36 am

Samd, Andy Braidford and I have a great DD hub motor design. It's the perfect combination of light weight, power handling & heat shedding, and efficiency. The road block is that the initial batch would require a minimum order of 1000 motors to cover the cost of all the new parts development. Group sale anyone? :wink:
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Re: How can we make custom tuned ES edition motors a reality

Post by madin88 » Aug 27, 2017 1:16 pm

The BionX D-motor is definitely a step in the right direction.

110mOhm with 10.0kV and only 4kg
It should have at least above 90% peak ETA (the motor comparison spreadsheet says 92,5% but not confirmed).

here is the topic: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 5#p1314656

and a link to Miles awesome DD design (but it is an inrunner):

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 50#p863515
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Re: How can we make custom tuned ES edition motors a reality

Post by amberwolf » Aug 27, 2017 2:39 pm

teslanv wrote:Samd, Andy Braidford and I have a great DD hub motor design. It's the perfect combination of light weight, power handling & heat shedding, and efficiency.
What's the details of the design?

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Re: How can we make custom tuned ES edition motors a reality

Post by atarijedi » Aug 31, 2017 3:40 am

markz wrote:You know what comes to mind, is that Croatian guy/company Cromotor, dont they just buy generic motors then upgrade them either in house or by some other means.

I have looked at people making their own motor, and it really doesnt seem that hard if you have all the tools. I will try to find that youtube video, they look to be Ukrainian or Russian. Awesome video. Ah my memory serves me.

Its not this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LNfDI3QUpQ
This is it Ukraine - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKjZgAvZAwM
Its like a 4 or 5 part series, this is 2 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kOMIuP75WU
I have always been fascinated with how this guy built his. Simple process.

I would say if someone has a lathe, and a little experience, why not do up a prototype.
I believe Cromotor just used QS205 motors, I believe they were using V1s, they then milled out some of the metal to lighten it, and rewound with thicker copper. That said, if you want to see some more custom motors, look at iulian207, he made, from scratch, a 45kW BLDC inrunner, and a 35kW BLDC outrunner. I believe he owns his own company that does it, or works in a machine shop of some sort. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKWHbU ... DsFZlZWLMw

That said, there are so many different things that can be attempted to make the best motor you need.

1. Different soft magnetic materials for the stator laminations, in various thicknesses.
2. Multi-material stator laminations.
3. Powdered core for the stator, as each powder particulate is insulated via the bonding agent. Makes me wonder if a powdered core could handle the torque, or if it would just crack and/or disintegrate, lol. This might be able to be 3d printed for your prototype, then stamped for larger runs. Powdered cobalt-iron alloy stator?
4. Different strength magnets.
5. Different materials for the magnets (neodymium vs samarium-cobalt).
6. Different temperature ratings for the magnets.
7. Differently shaped magnets and stator poles.
8. Different numbers of poles, and thus different windings and wire gauges.
9. Different structural materials.
10. Different structure design.
11. Mechanical components like bearings, go ceramic? For the axle, steel? aluminum? titanium?

Oh, to have won the lottery and be able to experiment!

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