Emsiso emDrive 500 (100kVA Peak, 800A/120VDC)

Electric Motors and Controllers
Rovii   100 W

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Re: Emsiso emDrive 500 (100kW Peak, 800A/125VDC)

Post by Rovii » Apr 13 2018 2:15am

Sorry, only in German language

https://youtu.be/CNIIn2OOZ7Q
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A, Kelly KLS 8080I 14401, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A, Kelly KHB 14601, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 Mile @ 170,62 kph and 12,278 seconds ( 117V, 800A, Emsiso EmDrive 500, 2018)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

MotorboaterBen   1 mW

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Re: Emsiso emDrive 500 (100kW Peak, 800A/125VDC)

Post by MotorboaterBen » Apr 14 2018 6:48pm

Awesome! Have you used any of the onboard data logging features?

Rovii   100 W

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Re: Emsiso emDrive 500 (100kW Peak, 800A/125VDC)

Post by Rovii » Apr 14 2018 9:53pm

No, not yet.
I am waiting on new manual update from Emsiso which should describe how to log data ... hopefully!
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A, Kelly KLS 8080I 14401, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A, Kelly KHB 14601, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 Mile @ 170,62 kph and 12,278 seconds ( 117V, 800A, Emsiso EmDrive 500, 2018)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

Rovii   100 W

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Re: Emsiso emDrive 500 (100kW Peak, 800A/125VDC)

Post by Rovii » Apr 15 2018 12:14am

Tested again this morning...
Same result as before (428A).
Got spinning wheel several times but I think cause of the underground...
Controller and motor temp was absolutely ok!
The power itself during acceleration was great but I had one problem. When I started and turn the throttle switch immediately, let’s say, from zero to one (full power) the controller switched off.
But when I gave him a little bit more time, let’s say, turn the first 10% a little bit slower and get then to full speed, then it’s not a problem...
So I will go in contact with Emsiso ... to be continued...
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A, Kelly KLS 8080I 14401, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A, Kelly KHB 14601, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 Mile @ 170,62 kph and 12,278 seconds ( 117V, 800A, Emsiso EmDrive 500, 2018)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

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liveforphysics   100 GW

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Re: Emsiso emDrive 500 (100kW Peak, 800A/125VDC)

Post by liveforphysics » Apr 15 2018 12:17am

Why is it limited to 428amps on an 800amp controller?? Is it a pack power limitation? That bike and tire wants all the torque you can throw at it right away when you set the tire pressure right for the carcass to load and deform and running sliding at 15-20% slip ratio for as long as you have power to hold it.

That bike and tire (at pressure) wants you to drop a house of torque onto it all at once and all the way down the track, ideally front wheel unloaded completely for the whole run. I promise you don't have the magnetics to be over-loading that tire and chassis geometry at launch or any speed. Just feed it everything you can creep the tune into feeding it, and give the bike plenty of time between runs after to cool when you begin to enter core saturation for the duration of the quarter mile.

Drag racing is most drastically effected by what happens in the first 60ft of the track, and 330ft matters a little, but from there if you just let off throttle and coast or continue full throttle it makes a surprisingly small difference in ET (with a huge difference in trap speed).
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

Rovii   100 W

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Re: Emsiso emDrive 500 (100kW Peak, 800A/125VDC)

Post by Rovii » Apr 15 2018 2:58am

So I do not really know why it switched off!
And maybe I made mistake by measuring. The phase cable was not in the middle of the circle and the current meter can also measuring inrush current ... to be continued.
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A, Kelly KLS 8080I 14401, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A, Kelly KHB 14601, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 Mile @ 170,62 kph and 12,278 seconds ( 117V, 800A, Emsiso EmDrive 500, 2018)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

Rovii   100 W

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Re: Emsiso emDrive 500 (100kW Peak, 800A/125VDC)

Post by Rovii » Apr 16 2018 9:10am

He switched off by over current!
Controller gain to high?
Does it have something to do with the PI regulation of torque mode?
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A, Kelly KLS 8080I 14401, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A, Kelly KHB 14601, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 Mile @ 170,62 kph and 12,278 seconds ( 117V, 800A, Emsiso EmDrive 500, 2018)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

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liveforphysics   100 GW

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Re: Emsiso emDrive 500 (100kW Peak, 800A/125VDC)

Post by liveforphysics » Apr 16 2018 5:36pm

Rovii wrote:
Apr 16 2018 9:10am
He switched off by over current!
Controller gain to high?
Does it have something to do with the PI regulation of torque mode?

It is normal controller tuning experience to spend at least days if not weeks of adjusting PID tuning loops in controllers before you can achieve full power from them.
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

Rovii   100 W

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Re: Emsiso emDrive 500 (100kW Peak, 800A/125VDC)

Post by Rovii » Apr 18 2018 11:46am

It seems that I solved now, together with Emsiso, the problem. But I think my batteries are empty now!
It was a parameter setting which was not described in the manual I have. So they forwarded it today and it has something to do with my Hall feedback sensor and the settings inside the controller called „Velocity encoder factor Divisor“ which has a default setting of 4096 and is used for all other sensor types on the market which assist by Emsiso controller, except hall sensor :-(.
Had to change it to 96 (pole pairs x 6= 16x6)
And now also the sound out of the motor is much quieter!
So hope to make a next test run on airport by next Tuesday!
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A, Kelly KLS 8080I 14401, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A, Kelly KHB 14601, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 Mile @ 170,62 kph and 12,278 seconds ( 117V, 800A, Emsiso EmDrive 500, 2018)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

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liveforphysics   100 GW

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Re: Emsiso emDrive 500 (100kW Peak, 800A/125VDC)

Post by liveforphysics » Apr 18 2018 6:54pm

Woot!!

Its going to accelerate so much harder now with the full 800amps!
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

Rovii   100 W

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Re: Emsiso emDrive 500 (100kW Peak, 800A/125VDC)

Post by Rovii » Apr 18 2018 8:51pm

I will see it!
On dusty ground I direct got spinning wheel!
On dry ground not. But as I said, it feel like the batteries were near to empty!
Running them since Sunday morning without charging.
I also thinking about the cycle analyst high current version to see how many amps dc were running through the cable incl. Data analogger to get more information out of the system.
BTW: Emsiso told me that my measurement device will not show the 800A because a certain speed/frequency is necessary and I also saw the amps running down after one minute from 428A to 413A. So it will not hold the value.
Therefore I have to check the recording function of Emsiso controller!
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A, Kelly KLS 8080I 14401, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A, Kelly KHB 14601, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 Mile @ 170,62 kph and 12,278 seconds ( 117V, 800A, Emsiso EmDrive 500, 2018)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

MotorboaterBen   1 mW

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Re: Emsiso emDrive 500 (100kW Peak, 800A/125VDC)

Post by MotorboaterBen » Apr 26 2018 5:33am

Hey Rovii,

I am having some successes and some issues with my controller, and was hoping you might be able to help.

For my emDrive150 I was able to successfully operate the controller with a potentiometer in torque mode. However when trying to operate the controller in velocity mode, adjusting the potentiometer has no effect. 6060 is set to 9, 3001sub1 is set to 2, FW and RW velocity limits have been set, and I can see the potentiometer is functioning correctly with the Watch Function. Upon saving the parameters, resetting, and restarting the drive, the motor is clearly in velocity mode with a target velocity of 0, but I cannot adjust the motor velocity with the potentiometer. Is there something I am missing?

Any help would be tremendously appreciated. Everything works perfectly when controlling directly from the computer via the USB/CAN interface, but these other control methods are giving me much difficulty.

Best,
Ben

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Re: Emsiso emDrive 500 (100kW Peak, 800A/125VDC)

Post by Rovii » Apr 26 2018 9:38am

Hi Ben,
Well to be honest I have never made this step.
Because I do not need regen.
But what’s about 0x3000 is it set to 1?
What type of sensor feedback are you using (hall/ sin-cos, resolver)?
For Hall you have to check parameter 0x6094 it must be 6x Pol pair (default value was 4096)

Are you already made velocity tuning?
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A, Kelly KLS 8080I 14401, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A, Kelly KHB 14601, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 Mile @ 170,62 kph and 12,278 seconds ( 117V, 800A, Emsiso EmDrive 500, 2018)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

MotorboaterBen   1 mW

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Re: Emsiso emDrive 500 (100kW Peak, 800A/125VDC)

Post by MotorboaterBen » May 02 2018 7:38am

Hi Rovii,

I found my issue!
x3000 was set to 1
x3001 was set to 2
Running a sin/cos encoder.

When operating in APP1 velocity mode, 6060 Mode of operation needs to be set to 10 (torque mode) instead of velocity mode (9). There is also a secondary velocity control loop (velocity regulator), that must be parameterized for operating the system in APP1 velocity mode. Although now I am having issues with this setup that limits my torque regulator requested to about 1700, so I can not get past 30 or so amps (full current should be around 125).

I am learning a great deal about this controller and will follow up later this week.

Best,
Ben

Rovii   100 W

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Re: Emsiso emDrive 500 (100kW Peak, 800A/125VDC)

Post by Rovii » May 02 2018 8:34am

Ok, as I said before!
Not all parameters settings were inside the manual, like my hall sensor feedback.
Try to get in contact with Emsiso and ask for this issue!
BTW I received an answer that the manual for emDrive500 is still in progress !!!
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A, Kelly KLS 8080I 14401, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A, Kelly KHB 14601, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 Mile @ 170,62 kph and 12,278 seconds ( 117V, 800A, Emsiso EmDrive 500, 2018)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

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flippy   10 kW

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Re: Emsiso emDrive 500 (100kW Peak, 800A/125VDC)

Post by flippy » May 02 2018 11:24am

Rovii wrote:
May 02 2018 8:34am
BTW I received an answer that the manual for emDrive500 is still in progress !!!
usually when a company sells a product they would have a manual made before they put it to market...
Lithium beats liquid dinosaurs.

Rovii   100 W

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Re: Emsiso emDrive 500 (100kW Peak, 800A/125VDC)

Post by Rovii » May 02 2018 10:34pm

Well there is existing a manual but they are updating it with some more informations!
Which are need for better understanding!
I think the same like Sevcon which should be also terrible to parameterize, I have heared.
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A, Kelly KLS 8080I 14401, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A, Kelly KHB 14601, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 Mile @ 170,62 kph and 12,278 seconds ( 117V, 800A, Emsiso EmDrive 500, 2018)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

Rovii   100 W

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Re: Emsiso emDrive 500 (100kW Peak, 800A/125VDC)

Post by Rovii » May 06 2018 11:53pm

I have a question to the experts regarding field weakening option.
Emsiso got me the information that if I use field weakening I should have an eye of the max voltage level for the controller (125V DC)!
And now I am a little bit confused!
Before, they told me, if I am running in torque mode there is no negative torque possible and therefore no back energizing (regeneration to the batteries).
Will I drive in speed mode regeneration is possible.
But I am only driving in torque mode.
Now they advise me to have a look during field weakening option that I do not reach voltages higher than voltage protection of 125VDC.

When I took the outside circumference of the wheel (2,19m) and the actually reached top speed of 152kph @ 402m into consideration and recalculate it back with a Kv of 12,08.
Then I came to the point that it should be possible to reach near to 200 kph before I start to destroy the controller latest:
152kph : 2,19 : 60 = 1156 turns
1156 turns / 12,08 = 96V
So I have 29V left, times 12,08 = 350 turns
1156 + 350 = 1506 turns
1506 * 60 * 2,19 = 197 kph (calculated under load conditions).

Did I make now a calculating failure?
Thanks for your feedback.

Emsiso advice me to start earliest at 90% of stator voltage to get the max torque as long as possible and to start with 50A of field weakening if my motor has 150A rated current!
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A, Kelly KLS 8080I 14401, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A, Kelly KHB 14601, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 Mile @ 170,62 kph and 12,278 seconds ( 117V, 800A, Emsiso EmDrive 500, 2018)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

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flippy   10 kW

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Re: Emsiso emDrive 500 (100kVA Peak, 800A/120VDC)

Post by flippy » May 07 2018 1:19am

You need to add * 0.9 to the kV rating in order to account for having a load on the motor. The normal kV rating is at no load.
Lithium beats liquid dinosaurs.

Rovii   100 W

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Re: Emsiso emDrive 500 (100kVA Peak, 800A/120VDC)

Post by Rovii » May 07 2018 2:55am

152kph : 2,19 : 60 = 1156 turns
1156 turns / 10,872 = 106,32V
Now I have 18V left, times 10,872 = 195 turns
1156 + 195 = 1351 turns
1351 * 60 * 2,19 = 177 kph (calculated under load conditions).
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A, Kelly KLS 8080I 14401, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A, Kelly KHB 14601, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 Mile @ 170,62 kph and 12,278 seconds ( 117V, 800A, Emsiso EmDrive 500, 2018)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

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liveforphysics   100 GW

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Re: Emsiso emDrive 500 (100kVA Peak, 800A/120VDC)

Post by liveforphysics » May 07 2018 4:38am

50Amps of field weakening might be a fine starting point, but you eventually want to get at least half your total peak pack current in field weakening current if the motor will take it.

When you're running 800amps phase current right off the line, what happens towards the other end of the track will have very little impact on your 1/4mile times.
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

Rovii   100 W

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Re: Emsiso emDrive 500 (100kVA Peak, 800A/120VDC)

Post by Rovii » May 07 2018 5:11am

Thanks for your feedbacks.
On Sunday I will hopefully get my first official time slip without field weakening and hope to be faster (in time) than last year.
I will drive 400km for only one run ;-).
After that I am in holidays.
Then in June ( 7-10th) I will hopefully test the bike 5-6 times where I want to increase the field weakening option (50A, 100A, 150A, 200A, and so on ...)
I haven´t test the recording function yet.
So a lot of things to do ...
Actually I am not sure to proceed with this controller and a second one in future (200kVA possible)
... maybe I change to Unitek controller (230kVA peak) power.
Then, if I do not destroy the motor and controller this season I will build it in my bicycle frame with some modifications and play again with the controller settings and field weakening option!
But we will see ...
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A, Kelly KLS 8080I 14401, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A, Kelly KHB 14601, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 Mile @ 170,62 kph and 12,278 seconds ( 117V, 800A, Emsiso EmDrive 500, 2018)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

Rovii   100 W

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Re: Emsiso emDrive 500 (100kVA Peak, 800A/120VDC)

Post by Rovii » May 14 2018 2:11am

So I made the test run last Saturday:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DodpG162VS0

The voltage drop, you can see on the blue display is big!
From 117V/118V to 103V/104V during acceleration phase!
So the batteries will be fully stressed in this short time.
But the acceleration was good or let´s better say too good!

For my next run in June I will shorten die wheel base distance, reduce the pressure in the rear tire and want to activate the field weakening option.
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A, Kelly KLS 8080I 14401, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A, Kelly KHB 14601, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 Mile @ 170,62 kph and 12,278 seconds ( 117V, 800A, Emsiso EmDrive 500, 2018)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

Rovii   100 W

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Re: Emsiso emDrive 500 (100kVA Peak, 800A/120VDC)

Post by Rovii » May 16 2018 12:04pm

Reduce now the wheel base
And parameterise the field weakening option with 90% of stator voltage and 50A field weakening current.
I will test the bike by 8th and 9th of June!
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- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A, Kelly KLS 8080I 14401, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A, Kelly KHB 14601, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 Mile @ 170,62 kph and 12,278 seconds ( 117V, 800A, Emsiso EmDrive 500, 2018)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

Luke P   1 µW

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Re: Emsiso emDrive 500 (100kVA Peak, 800A/120VDC)

Post by Luke P » May 31 2018 2:15pm

Hi!

What waterpump do you use for cooling?

Best regards,
Lukas

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