Go Kart Motor to compete against DD2 Petrol Motor

Electric Motors and Controllers
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Upperfoot
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Go Kart Motor to compete against DD2 Petrol Motor

Post by Upperfoot » Jan 07, 2018 3:29 pm

Hello guys!

I've been looking to build an Electric Go Kart to compete against Petrol Go Karts in this class https://www.rotax-kart.com/en/Products/ ... AX-DD2-evo

There are a few brands I have been looking at.

http://lynchmotors.co.uk/technical_elec ... otors.html
https://www.goldenmotor.com/frame-bldcmotor.htm
http://www.motenergy.com/
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-rot ... motor.html (Throwing this in the ring because I'm unsure of it's viability, it's for RC purposes but two in parallel may be close in terms of power).

But I am a bit lost as to what is the best motor for my needs, what is the best in terms of the best bang for my buck, and what could compete with the above?

If you guys have any idea or helpful links to help me along with my journey it would be very much appreciated.

Cheers!

SlowCo
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Re: Go Kart Motor to compete against DD2 Petrol Motor

Post by SlowCo » Jan 07, 2018 4:13 pm

Read this thread for inspiration and data:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 3&start=75

His latest set up is with a Zero (e-motorcycle) motor and forced air cooling. It will be difficult to get enough range (battery) for the longer races.

Upperfoot
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Re: Go Kart Motor to compete against DD2 Petrol Motor

Post by Upperfoot » Jan 07, 2018 5:06 pm

SlowCo wrote:
Jan 07, 2018 4:13 pm
Read this thread for inspiration and data:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 3&start=75

His latest set up is with a Zero (e-motorcycle) motor and forced air cooling. It will be difficult to get enough range (battery) for the longer races.
Thanks SlowCo, looks interesting! Did he use the 10kw Goldenmotor for his first iteration?

SlowCo
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Re: Go Kart Motor to compete against DD2 Petrol Motor

Post by SlowCo » Jan 07, 2018 6:22 pm

start reading the thread on page one...

Upperfoot
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Re: Go Kart Motor to compete against DD2 Petrol Motor

Post by Upperfoot » Jan 07, 2018 6:25 pm

SlowCo wrote:
Jan 07, 2018 6:22 pm
start reading the thread on page one...
I did, GM could have meant anything, don't be so condescending.

SlowCo
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Re: Go Kart Motor to compete against DD2 Petrol Motor

Post by SlowCo » Jan 07, 2018 6:38 pm

I wrote that because my link starts at page 4. My mistake that I didn't put in the link starting from the first page. If you did read that page you can see that it is indeed a Golden Motor. And if you read further you'll see that he finally uses a Zero motor to keep up with the fast two strokes. As that is what you want to do just forget about the Golden Motor and go straight to the Zero motor or similar output electric motors.
From the thread I linked to you can see what you need to build to keep up with the Rotax Max motors. If you have the technical ability and budget to build something similar you should be able to compete with the DD2's. Good luck and keep this thread updated with your progress as I love to follow the build and help if I can (no expert myself I'm afraid... :wink: ).

Upperfoot
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Re: Go Kart Motor to compete against DD2 Petrol Motor

Post by Upperfoot » Jan 07, 2018 7:09 pm

SlowCo wrote:
Jan 07, 2018 6:38 pm
I wrote that because my link starts at page 4. My mistake that I didn't put in the link starting from the first page. If you did read that page you can see that it is indeed a Golden Motor. And if you read further you'll see that he finally uses a Zero motor to keep up with the fast two strokes. As that is what you want to do just forget about the Golden Motor and go straight to the Zero motor or similar output electric motors.
From the thread I linked to you can see what you need to build to keep up with the Rotax Max motors. If you have the technical ability and budget to build something similar you should be able to compete with the DD2's. Good luck and keep this thread updated with your progress as I love to follow the build and help if I can (no expert myself I'm afraid... :wink: ).
Ah brilliant, thanks for the information! Sorry for the comment.

I found this one (75-7 - 54BHP) -
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Motor-electr ... Swp7taUSii

http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/high-res ... 75-7-motor

Looks good! I'll have to keep my eye on these motors, looks as though they aren't very commonplace, any idea where they might sell them other than second hand?

Upperfoot
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Re: Go Kart Motor to compete against DD2 Petrol Motor

Post by Upperfoot » Jan 11, 2018 1:14 pm

Having a bit of trouble sourcing the 75-7 motors in the EU (UK), so I'm looking at alternatives.

The ME1306 looks like a decent motor, apparently it's the successor to the ME0913 which was used in the earlier Zero motorcycles.

Anyone had any experience with this motor before? Or know of any other recommendations.

This is the frame I bought for future reference (Senior class) https://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Octane-Wild-Ka ... 2622941037

Upperfoot
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Re: Go Kart Motor to compete against DD2 Petrol Motor

Post by Upperfoot » Jan 16, 2018 4:20 pm

Bought the Gen4 Size 6 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SEVCON-Gen4- ... 2336823121), Looking through a few resources reveals I need to get an IXXAT USB to CAN v1.5/1.6 (old version), the DVT software (which runs on the old version), and when I choose a motor the DCF file to setup the correct configuration.

Any idea where I can get the DVT software? Unsure whether I need to contact Sevcon for a license or not for the old version of the IXXAT, or if it's only for the v2.

Upperfoot
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Re: Go Kart Motor to compete against DD2 Petrol Motor

Post by Upperfoot » Jan 18, 2018 5:32 am

Bit of an informatory post, contacted Sevcon (which is now BorgWarner), and the Model that I have (Part Number ends in 202) is a Sine/Cosine model with the M8 bolts and Bussmann fuse not included.

They also verified that 201 is a non-sine/non-cosine model and 203 is a Sine/Cosine model with the M8 bolts and Bussmann fuse included, this is indicated by the Part Number, not the Serial number (as a few people are confused about this and there is some misinformation floating about).

Hillhater
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Re: Go Kart Motor to compete against DD2 Petrol Motor

Post by Hillhater » Jan 21, 2018 5:44 pm

Incase you had not already realised, one of your main issues is going to be battery capacity/power/weight.
Obviously you need a powerful motor to get the pace to hang with the DD2s, but that motor power needs a powerful battery to feed it.
There are plenty of powerful cells, but the more power you use, the more capacity (and weight) you need to carry.
You will have to set yourself a "run time" target (minutes or #laps) in order to estimate how much battery capacity you will need.
It will be a compromise between enough capacity to last the race length, verses the extra weight (and consequent handling /performance handicap), that a heavier battery pack gives.
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

Upperfoot
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Re: Go Kart Motor to compete against DD2 Petrol Motor

Post by Upperfoot » Jan 22, 2018 2:52 am

Hillhater wrote:
Jan 21, 2018 5:44 pm
Incase you had not already realised, one of your main issues is going to be battery capacity/power/weight.
Obviously you need a powerful motor to get the pace to hang with the DD2s, but that motor power needs a powerful battery to feed it.
There are plenty of powerful cells, but the more power you use, the more capacity (and weight) you need to carry.
You will have to set yourself a "run time" target (minutes or #laps) in order to estimate how much battery capacity you will need.
It will be a compromise between enough capacity to last the race length, verses the extra weight (and consequent handling /performance handicap), that a heavier battery pack gives.
It has been something I've considered, but I'm tackling one hurdle at a time, Nuxland has been a great resource, using his videos as a frame of reference as well https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxfgRW ... n9u8BtGXow

He mentioned that motor temperature is also a big problem, something which held him back (limited the motor output to 60%)

It's going to be a difficult project, but it will be worth the effort at the end!

garolittle
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Re: Go Kart Motor to compete against DD2 Petrol Motor

Post by garolittle » Apr 04, 2018 10:41 pm

Any updates on this project? Post some pictures when you have time. Thanks.

themelon
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Re: Go Kart Motor to compete against DD2 Petrol Motor

Post by themelon » Apr 11, 2018 11:31 am

It's to bad something like the smaller one. It is the motor out of a first gen GM eAssist mild hybrid platform. It is likely under-powered at 15kW:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/downl ... &id=232134

This one would be awesome but it is way to heavy. Chevy Spark EV trans-axle, 100kW, 400ftlb and somewhere in the range of 120-130lbs. But it is fairly compact.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/downl ... &id=232135

Both are liquid cooled, the eAssist one from the factory runs on a 32S battery and is induction while the Spark on 96S and is perm mag.

Perhaps more than one of the eAssist motors? They are not that much bugger than a regular alternator, perhaps 2x the volume. YOu can get them almost any day, in the US at least, for under $100.
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