6 wire alternator conversion

Electric Motors and Controllers
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baldytron   100 µW

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6 wire alternator conversion

Post by baldytron » Mar 11 2018 9:22am

I have two nice alternators I would like to use as BLDC motors for some mini go karts.
But these have six wires and I cant figure out if or how to use them :?

Wires 1,2 and 3 have continuity with each other (green)
wires 4,5 and 6 have continuity with each other (blue)

Any ideas ?
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flippy   10 kW

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Re: 6 wire alternator conversion

Post by flippy » Mar 12 2018 10:11am

Most alternators are 6 phase. 2x3 phases. So 2 separate motors basically.
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baldytron   100 µW

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Re: 6 wire alternator conversion

Post by baldytron » Mar 13 2018 3:00pm

flippy wrote:
Mar 12 2018 10:11am
Most alternators are 6 phase. 2x3 phases. So 2 separate motors basically.
Thank you

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flippy   10 kW

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Re: 6 wire alternator conversion

Post by flippy » Mar 14 2018 8:20am

no problem. but how are you planning on using a BLDC drive controller when a standard alternator uses brushes?
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fechter   100 GW

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Re: 6 wire alternator conversion

Post by fechter » Mar 14 2018 9:48am

You would need to power the field winding or replace it with permanent magnets to use it as a motor.

Simplest is to power the field windings. Most take around 2A @12v. 24W of wasted power.

For testing, you could use a 12v power supply to power the field, then spin the shaft and measure the voltage between your wires to determine the phasing.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

John in CR   100 GW

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Re: 6 wire alternator conversion

Post by John in CR » Mar 15 2018 3:37pm

It doesn't have 6 phases. It's just that the end of the windings hasn't been terminated as Delta or WYE. Do your termination in whichever configuration you desire, leaving you with 3 phase wires.

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parabellum   10 MW

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Re: 6 wire alternator conversion

Post by parabellum » Mar 15 2018 4:52pm

John in CR wrote:
Mar 15 2018 3:37pm
It doesn't have 6 phases. It's just that the end of the windings hasn't been terminated as Delta or WYE. Do your termination in whichever configuration you desire, leaving you with 3 phase wires.
There would be continuity in pairs if the windings are not terminated. He has continuity between 3 wires.

John in CR   100 GW

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Re: 6 wire alternator conversion

Post by John in CR » Mar 15 2018 5:27pm

Good point. It's been so long since I fooled with cars, I didn't know 6 phase alternators even existed. It sounds like a good candidate for a pair of sensorless controllers.

baldytron   100 µW

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Re: 6 wire alternator conversion

Post by baldytron » Mar 16 2018 5:13pm

Cheers guys :D
I was planning on using a sensorless bldc controller and a brushed controller for the field coil.
I have added some more pics and I sacrificed one for fun
This is how the wires are joined
20180316_150344_1521237669735_resized.jpg
once they are cut I am left with 3 groups of 4 wires these have continuity in pairs
20180316_150656_1521237671527_resized.jpg
With the pairs marked in color
uij.jpg
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parabellum   10 MW

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Re: 6 wire alternator conversion

Post by parabellum » Mar 17 2018 1:33am

They where terminated in star, which is pretty nice. No parasitic recirculating current and you can use higher voltage. I can be wrong, but it looks like the winding sets are shifted, you will need to use 2 controllers in different timing, hopefully they will not interfere/trigger each other.
Can you show the bridge rectifier used on this Gen?

baldytron   100 µW

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Re: 6 wire alternator conversion

Post by baldytron » Mar 22 2018 9:55am

parabellum wrote:
Mar 17 2018 1:33am
Can you show the bridge rectifier used on this Gen?
No sorry destroyed them, it was the first part I binned.

I only have one controler at the moment so I can not test.
But this video gives me hope

markz   100 GW

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Re: 6 wire alternator conversion

Post by markz » May 12 2018 2:26pm

I am starting my own project, 1995 Ram 1500 alternator from junkyard.

Bought myself a brushed controller off of Amazon 36V 500W because it would be shipped to my place within 2 days, hopefully.

I was planning on using the brushed controller for the phases, and just powering field with 9-12V separate battery. I got everything ready to go, waiting on brushed controller.
Ideally I'd use a Greentime controller 48V 1000W, SENSORLESS of course. Then I can use regular ebike throttle.

This is my junky ebike, lock it up and be away from it for hours. Workout at the gym, go to the mall, library.

Will the alternator motor conversion have enough power to go 1.25 miles up a 1% grade with 375lbs?

Round trip of course, half is downhill, so say 3 miles total, I have plenty of battery.

edit - Of course I checked out Hobbyking, but their high voltage esc's are expensive. Not sure if the 1-6S esc's are even worth it for my application, but they do have high amps usually 60A-100A so thats what must make up the difference, plus they are so small. Everyone that does this alt-motor conv on yt, just rides around on flat ground for a minute.

Your alternator, if it had 6 posts before the diodes/rectifier, then yeah its just two ends of one phase, with 3 phases so 6. My controller has 4 posts before rect so its wye terminated. 3 posts would be delta. I would love to know which one is better suited (wye or delta, or your 6 post) for ebiking. Of course your 6 post can be terminated either way you wish, wye or delta very easily.

baldytron wrote:
Mar 16 2018 5:13pm
Cheers guys :D
I was planning on using a sensorless bldc controller and a brushed controller for the field coil.
I have added some more pics and I sacrificed one for fun
This is how the wires are joined

20180316_150344_1521237669735_resized.jpg
once they are cut I am left with 3 groups of 4 wires these have continuity in pairs
20180316_150656_1521237671527_resized.jpg
With the pairs marked in color
uij.jpg

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parabellum   10 MW

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Re: 6 wire alternator conversion

Post by parabellum » May 13 2018 11:26am

markz wrote:
May 12 2018 2:26pm
I was planning on using the brushed controller for the phases, and just powering field with 9-12V separate battery.
markz wrote:
May 12 2018 2:26pm
My controller has 4 posts before rect so its wye terminated. 3 posts would be delta.
How do you want to use brushed type motor controller on 3 phase BLDC "motor"?

markz   100 GW

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Re: 6 wire alternator conversion

Post by markz » May 14 2018 6:29pm

:oops:
Gotta return the item to Amazon

Fropple   1 µW

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Re: 6 wire alternator conversion

Post by Fropple » Jul 30 2018 1:27pm

Hi!
Not sure this is the correct thread for this, but:

I got myself a random alternator as a project for motor conversion. Turns out it has three groups of wires with four in each.
In each group there is continuity in two separate pairs of wires.
So now I'm not sure how, or if this can be wired as a three phase motor to be used with a bldc controller - or if I accidentally got a six phase alternator which would require two controllers.. Any ideas?
Thanks!

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