QS 3000w midmotor

[Chambers]

For those interested- Harry from QS told me today that the 'recorded peak power' for this motor at 72V is 15839W

[larsb]

Nice to get an "official" power number from QS

I am sure that for a short period of time it can be even higher. I put 250A into it at 80V for a few bursts and i couldn't feel any heat at all.

With the new controller i can push 600A, battery cannot cope with it so i don't know how much i get.. but output from motor is even higher than before. Motor is capable of more than 20kW in bursts.

[Chambers]

WOW I'm trying to decide on a motor for a light weight motorcycle build.. This one is starting to look promising

[madin88]

Regarding some russia guys who disassembled the 3000W motor (YT vid) the size of the rotor is:

85mm diameter x 70mm length

thats always helpful if you compare differnt motors and you wondering which one can do more (peak) torque.
At least i found out that it is meaningful if the motors you compare were designed properly (in terms of steel saturation).

[larsb]

Could you link the vid?

[redline2097]

https://youtu.be/JnELgPgL-1o?t=367

[madin88]

^^ at 8:14 they take measurements on the rotor

Does anybody run this motor with an FOC controller which can apply field weakening starting from 0 RPM?

As for instance 70% q-axis current (normal phase current) and 30% d-axis current (field weakening current) everytime.

[larsb]

Why would you do it? As far as i know you'll get lower torque and efficiency and get speed, which you don't need at low speed.. ?

This is APT AE96600 flux weakening screen.

evdrive9.png (119.97 KiB) Viewed 3096 times

Seems you can do pretty much what you want

[madin88]

Why would you do it? As far as i know you'll get lower torque and efficiency and get speed, which you don't need at low speed.. ?

Yes if we talk about motors which have surface mounted magnets than this is the case. you trade efficiency to get higher RPM and you should only use it if you ran out of RPM (and then not until 70-80% of top speed).

But those QS midmotors have an IPM rotor (magnets are covered in steel laminations), so it will be able to produce the so called reluctance torque additionally to the magnet torque if you apply flux weaken current.
This means on IPM motors you could gain speed and torque with field weakening current, not just speed.

here is a thread about that:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=95100

and here is a test about hyundai HSG IPM motor:

http://build-its-inprogress.blogspot.co ... stand.html

Regarding the graph from the stall torque tests, it works like this:
On the left we see 100% nomal phase current (orange curve) which was adjusted to 100% D-axis current on right (blue curve). The sum (vector) of the phase current stayed the same.
I believe on surface manget motors the torque would just get lower and lower from left to right down to 0Nm on the far right (where D-axis current will only make heat).



at around 170A Q-axis current + 0A D-axis current you get out about 36Nm at 0RPM -> 170A total phase current
at around 115A Q-axis current + 125A D-axis current (in the middle) you get out about 56Nm at 0RPM -> sqrt(115² +125²) = 170A total phase current
edited: i confused Q and D

conclusion:
you would get about 50% more torque out of this hyundai HSG IMP motor if you drive it with 50/50% D+Q current.
at least thats how it should be as far as i understood the whole thing... please correct me if i am wrong!

This is APT AE96600 flux weakening screen.
evdrive9.png
Seems you can do pretty much what you want

You should find out what those settings stand for and then try it out.

@ bionicon

you mentioned that you have set 150A field weakening on sabvoton. Did you notice more torque at take off, or just more speed?

[devo1223]

Thanks for explaining ipm motors. I got interested in this motor when Valilisk mentioned it in his controller thread. I'm on the list for the 12F and I want to pair it with the QS 1000w for my next middrive build. I was thinking low volts/high amps so I would not need so much gear reduction for the trail then maybe increase the flux weakening for the street but it sounds like if torque increases also then I would want flux weakening all the time? I'm I understanding correctly, does ipm motors with flux weakening now allow us to spin motors at higher rpm's with lower voltage more efficiently?

[devo1223]

Are the ultra and BBHD ipm motors?

ultra.jpg (144.49 KiB) Viewed 3056 times

BBHD.png (82.89 KiB) Viewed 3056 times

[bionicon]

Hey Madin, dont know realy if the 150amps field improve my torque also.

[larsb]

Interesting!
I'll see if i can get a manual for the APT controller, i think the different current sets for field weakening can be used like a lookup table but without a dyno it might be of little use.

[flat tire]

Just got this motor in the mail and I have a ASI BAC8000 on the way to power it. Got a bunch of Lipo that can do 400+ amps @ 72v. Looking to try 30KW bursts, but it will need some cooling. Anyone tried forced air ventilation?

[larsb]

I'd start with a bunch of added LED heat sinks, there's a lot of space for them on the motor.

I REALLY like to know how it pairs with the BAC8000

[madin88]

I got interested in this motor when Valilisk mentioned it in his controller thread.

you and me both

I'm I understanding correctly, does ipm motors with flux weakening now allow us to spin motors at higher rpm's with lower voltage more efficiently?

Exactly. It is more effecitve bacause of the additional reluctance torque you get if you apply field weakening (D-axis) current.

Are the ultra and BBHD ipm motors?

If the magnets are placed interior than it is IPM. The motor on the left has surface mounted magnets.

[larsb]

I got this link on IPM motors, starts after ten minutes:

https://training.ti.com/teaching-old-mo ... mum-torque#

[Skaiwerd]

I got this link on IPM motors, starts after ten minutes:

https://training.ti.com/teaching-old-mo ... mum-torque#

I lost it in 2.5 minutes. As sooon as that large complex formula was shown. The guy in the video uses the Toyota Prius electric motor as an example as it’s an IPM motor.

[Emoto]

I got interested in this motor when Valilisk mentioned it in his controller thread.

Cant find it, Does anyone have a link to that ,Thanks

[SlowCo]

I got interested in this motor when Valilisk mentioned it in his controller thread.

Cant find it, Does anyone have a link to that ,Thanks

The Nucular controller: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 31&t=75494

[jonnydrive]

Ok, thanks!
I will get one with a chain sprocket. Could you post a pic of the axle interface? I wonder how easy it will be to eventually replace the sprocket or get a selection of sizes.

Did they have 219 chain sprockets?

You best email to qs they make the axle like you want for me they make it work for 420 sprockets.

I asked QS for #420 and 10 Tooth sprocket, the same axale also seems to fit perfectly with the JTF259 sprockets #428

Capture1.PNG (189.8 KiB) Viewed 2431 times

http://www.jtsprockets.com/catalogue/sprocket/JTF259/

Capture2.PNG (188.63 KiB) Viewed 2431 times

Capture3.PNG (476.28 KiB) Viewed 2431 times

[Bartosh]

Guys, can you please confirm whether the motor comes with such (sprocket type) axle by default or it needs to be customized by QS?

[jonnydrive]

Guys, can you please confirm whether the motor comes with such (sprocket type) axle by default or it needs to be customized by QS?

I asked QS for 420#, I recived the ones in the picture above,
Sorry but I have no idea if it is the default axale or not

[Skaiwerd]

My 1000w qs middrive motor came with this 8mm pitch timing belt pulley. I think the 2000W and 3000w motors will also ship this way unless you plan otherwise with the supplier. I ordered from Alibaba but see no real advantage of doing so. Special requests would likely have to come from qs motors directly. Box read cnqsmotor.com as there’s also this one qs-motors.com that’s probably just another reseller.

[Bartosh]

Thanks guys. I just thought it might be possible to remove the front pulley to get to the axle. So this way I could just get rid of the pulley and put a standard 420/428 sprocket. If the chain noise became too annoying, I would get back to the original setup. Seems like it's not gonna be possible without modifying the axle.