QS 3000w midmotor

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Chambers   100 mW

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Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Post by Chambers » Nov 09 2018 12:56am

For those interested- Harry from QS told me today that the 'recorded peak power' for this motor at 72V is 15839W

larsb   100 kW

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Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Post by larsb » Nov 09 2018 1:35am

Nice to get an "official" power number from QS :D

I am sure that for a short period of time it can be even higher. I put 250A into it at 80V for a few bursts and i couldn't feel any heat at all.

With the new controller i can push 600A, battery cannot cope with it so i don't know how much i get.. but output from motor is even higher than before. Motor is capable of more than 20kW in bursts.
Last edited by larsb on Nov 09 2018 1:56pm, edited 2 times in total.
Ride on :D

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Chambers   100 mW

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Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Post by Chambers » Nov 09 2018 3:12am

:shock: WOW :shock: I'm trying to decide on a motor for a light weight motorcycle build.. This one is starting to look promising :bigthumb:

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madin88   100 MW

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Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Post by madin88 » Nov 11 2018 8:38am

Regarding some russia guys who disassembled the 3000W motor (YT vid) the size of the rotor is:

85mm diameter x 70mm length

thats always helpful if you compare differnt motors and you wondering which one can do more (peak) torque.
At least i found out that it is meaningful if the motors you compare were designed properly (in terms of steel saturation).

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Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Post by larsb » Nov 11 2018 10:12am

Could you link the vid?
Ride on :D

redline2097   100 W

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Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Post by redline2097 » Nov 11 2018 11:38am


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madin88   100 MW

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Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Post by madin88 » Nov 12 2018 5:53am

^^ at 8:14 they take measurements on the rotor

Does anybody run this motor with an FOC controller which can apply field weakening starting from 0 RPM?

As for instance 70% q-axis current (normal phase current) and 30% d-axis current (field weakening current) everytime.

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Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Post by larsb » Nov 12 2018 6:43am

Why would you do it? As far as i know you'll get lower torque and efficiency and get speed, which you don't need at low speed.. ?

This is APT AE96600 flux weakening screen.
evdrive9.png
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Seems you can do pretty much what you want :D
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madin88   100 MW

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Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Post by madin88 » Nov 13 2018 8:05am

larsb wrote:
Nov 12 2018 6:43am
Why would you do it? As far as i know you'll get lower torque and efficiency and get speed, which you don't need at low speed.. ?
Yes if we talk about motors which have surface mounted magnets than this is the case. you trade efficiency to get higher RPM and you should only use it if you ran out of RPM (and then not until 70-80% of top speed).

But those QS midmotors have an IPM rotor (magnets are covered in steel laminations), so it will be able to produce the so called reluctance torque additionally to the magnet torque if you apply flux weaken current.
This means on IPM motors you could gain speed and torque with field weakening current, not just speed.

here is a thread about that:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=95100

and here is a test about hyundai HSG IPM motor:

http://build-its-inprogress.blogspot.co ... stand.html

Regarding the graph from the stall torque tests, it works like this:
On the left we see 100% nomal phase current (orange curve) which was adjusted to 100% D-axis current on right (blue curve). The sum (vector) of the phase current stayed the same.
I believe on surface manget motors the torque would just get lower and lower from left to right down to 0Nm on the far right (where D-axis current will only make heat).

Image

at around 170A Q-axis current + 0A D-axis current you get out about 36Nm at 0RPM -> 170A total phase current
at around 115A Q-axis current + 125A D-axis current (in the middle) you get out about 56Nm at 0RPM -> sqrt(115² +125²) = 170A total phase current
edited: i confused Q and D

conclusion:
you would get about 50% more torque out of this hyundai HSG IMP motor if you drive it with 50/50% D+Q current.
at least thats how it should be as far as i understood the whole thing... please correct me if i am wrong!
This is APT AE96600 flux weakening screen.
evdrive9.png
Seems you can do pretty much what you want :D
You should find out what those settings stand for and then try it out.

@ bionicon

you mentioned that you have set 150A field weakening on sabvoton. Did you notice more torque at take off, or just more speed?
Last edited by madin88 on Nov 14 2018 5:15am, edited 1 time in total.

devo1223   100 W

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Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Post by devo1223 » Nov 13 2018 12:35pm

Thanks for explaining ipm motors. I got interested in this motor when Valilisk mentioned it in his controller thread. I'm on the list for the 12F and I want to pair it with the QS 1000w for my next middrive build. I was thinking low volts/high amps so I would not need so much gear reduction for the trail then maybe increase the flux weakening for the street but it sounds like if torque increases also then I would want flux weakening all the time? I'm I understanding correctly, does ipm motors with flux weakening now allow us to spin motors at higher rpm's with lower voltage more efficiently?
Vector lite stuffed with 30Qs
Mxus 3k turbo 3t in 17in moto rim
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=92531&p=1353484&hil ... e#p1353484

devo1223   100 W

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Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Post by devo1223 » Nov 13 2018 12:56pm

Are the ultra and BBHD ipm motors?
ultra.jpg
ultra.jpg (144.49 KiB) Viewed 2055 times
BBHD.png
BBHD.png (82.89 KiB) Viewed 2055 times
Vector lite stuffed with 30Qs
Mxus 3k turbo 3t in 17in moto rim
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=92531&p=1353484&hil ... e#p1353484

bionicon   1 kW

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Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Post by bionicon » Nov 13 2018 2:21pm

Hey Madin, dont know realy if the 150amps field improve my torque also.

larsb   100 kW

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Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Post by larsb » Nov 13 2018 4:22pm

Interesting!
I'll see if i can get a manual for the APT controller, i think the different current sets for field weakening can be used like a lookup table but without a dyno it might be of little use.
Ride on :D

flat tire   1 MW

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Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Post by flat tire » Nov 13 2018 4:36pm

Just got this motor in the mail and I have a ASI BAC8000 on the way to power it. Got a bunch of Lipo that can do 400+ amps @ 72v. Looking to try 30KW bursts, but it will need some cooling. Anyone tried forced air ventilation?

larsb   100 kW

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Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Post by larsb » Nov 13 2018 4:49pm

I'd start with a bunch of added LED heat sinks, there's a lot of space for them on the motor.

I REALLY like to know how it pairs with the BAC8000 :bigthumb:
Ride on :D

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madin88   100 MW

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Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Post by madin88 » Nov 14 2018 5:28am

devo1223 wrote:
Nov 13 2018 12:35pm
I got interested in this motor when Valilisk mentioned it in his controller thread.
you and me both :)
I'm I understanding correctly, does ipm motors with flux weakening now allow us to spin motors at higher rpm's with lower voltage more efficiently?
Exactly. It is more effecitve bacause of the additional reluctance torque you get if you apply field weakening (D-axis) current.
devo1223 wrote:
Nov 13 2018 12:56pm
Are the ultra and BBHD ipm motors?
If the magnets are placed interior than it is IPM. The motor on the left has surface mounted magnets.

larsb   100 kW

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Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Post by larsb » Nov 29 2018 12:36pm

I got this link on IPM motors, starts after ten minutes:

https://training.ti.com/teaching-old-mo ... mum-torque#
Ride on :D

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Skaiwerd   100 W

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Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Post by Skaiwerd » Nov 29 2018 5:50pm

larsb wrote:
Nov 29 2018 12:36pm
I got this link on IPM motors, starts after ten minutes:

https://training.ti.com/teaching-old-mo ... mum-torque#
I lost it in 2.5 minutes. As sooon as that large complex formula was shown. The guy in the video uses the Toyota Prius electric motor as an example as it’s an IPM motor.

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Emoto   10 kW

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Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Post by Emoto » Dec 01 2018 3:20am

I got interested in this motor when Valilisk mentioned it in his controller thread.
Cant find it, Does anyone have a link to that ,Thanks

SlowCo   100 kW

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Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Post by SlowCo » Dec 01 2018 5:11am

Emoto wrote:
Dec 01 2018 3:20am
I got interested in this motor when Valilisk mentioned it in his controller thread.
Cant find it, Does anyone have a link to that ,Thanks
The Nucular controller: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 31&t=75494

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Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Post by jonnydrive » Dec 12 2018 3:24am

bionicon wrote:
Jul 16 2018 10:43am
larsb wrote:
Jul 15 2018 1:47pm
Ok, thanks! :D
I will get one with a chain sprocket. Could you post a pic of the axle interface? I wonder how easy it will be to eventually replace the sprocket or get a selection of sizes.

Did they have 219 chain sprockets?
You best email to qs they make the axle like you want for me they make it work for 420 sprockets.
I asked QS for #420 and 10 Tooth sprocket, the same axale also seems to fit perfectly with the JTF259 sprockets #428
Capture1.PNG
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http://www.jtsprockets.com/catalogue/sprocket/JTF259/
Capture2.PNG
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Capture3.PNG
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Bartosh   1 mW

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Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Post by Bartosh » Dec 12 2018 3:52am

Guys, can you please confirm whether the motor comes with such (sprocket type) axle by default or it needs to be customized by QS?

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Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Post by jonnydrive » Dec 12 2018 6:06am

Bartosh wrote:
Dec 12 2018 3:52am
Guys, can you please confirm whether the motor comes with such (sprocket type) axle by default or it needs to be customized by QS?
I asked QS for 420#, I recived the ones in the picture above,
Sorry but I have no idea if it is the default axale or not

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Skaiwerd   100 W

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Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Post by Skaiwerd » Dec 12 2018 12:22pm

My 1000w qs middrive motor came with this 8mm pitch timing belt pulley. I think the 2000W and 3000w motors will also ship this way unless you plan otherwise with the supplier. I ordered from Alibaba but see no real advantage of doing so. Special requests would likely have to come from qs motors directly. Box read cnqsmotor.com as there’s also this one qs-motors.com that’s probably just another reseller.
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Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Post by Bartosh » Dec 13 2018 4:49am

Thanks guys. I just thought it might be possible to remove the front pulley to get to the axle. So this way I could just get rid of the pulley and put a standard 420/428 sprocket. If the chain noise became too annoying, I would get back to the original setup. Seems like it's not gonna be possible without modifying the axle.

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