TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Electric Motors and Controllers
Doctor Al   1 mW

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by Doctor Al » Oct 24 2018 2:54pm

Ok,

So i reflashed motor and controller but this time changed to stm8s105x6 for the motor and hey presto the display is up and running.


Thanks for your help. I'll feedback as to how it goes.

Cheers everyone.

EndlessCadence   100 W

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by EndlessCadence » Oct 24 2018 2:59pm

Doctor Al wrote:
Oct 24 2018 2:54pm
Ok,

So i reflashed motor and controller but this time changed to stm8s105x6 for the motor and hey presto the display is up and running.


Thanks for your help. I'll feedback as to how it goes.

Cheers everyone.
Great! Have fun :D

What you did is correct and is maybe not very clearly stated in the wiki. I've changed the wiki a little to improve this and we should add a Windows programming tutorial soon.

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gaber   10 W

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by gaber » Oct 24 2018 3:04pm

EndlessCadence wrote:
Oct 24 2018 2:59pm
What you did is correct and is maybe not very clearly stated in the wiki. I've changed the wiki a little to improve this and we should add a Windows programming tutorial soon.
That would be great!
sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes, well, he eats you.

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gaber   10 W

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by gaber » Oct 24 2018 3:17pm

EndlessCadence wrote:
Oct 23 2018 11:37am
Yes, it is if you have a Github account (free). I've created a page for you! You can find it here:
https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... 2-Glossary

Thanks!

Please let us know beforehand if you want to contribute to other documentation as well.
Any idea why I would keep getting a 404 error when trying to edit the glossary page you created? My account is verified.
sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes, well, he eats you.

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by EndlessCadence » Oct 24 2018 3:28pm

gaber wrote:
Oct 24 2018 3:17pm
Any idea why I would keep getting a 404 error when trying to edit the glossary page you created? My account is verified.
404s is really strange, doesn't sound like an access or rights issue. I don't have administrative rights for the wiki so I can't check if you have access and the required rights. Can't check the repository settings. We have to wait for Casainho :wink:

Doctor Al   1 mW

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by Doctor Al » Oct 24 2018 3:38pm

gaber wrote:
Oct 24 2018 3:04pm
EndlessCadence wrote:
Oct 24 2018 2:59pm
What you did is correct and is maybe not very clearly stated in the wiki. I've changed the wiki a little to improve this and we should add a Windows programming tutorial soon.
That would be great!
Oh I also re downloaded the firmware for the motor, 14.3 rather than 14.2... perhaps that did the trick?

casainho   1.21 GW

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by casainho » Oct 24 2018 3:50pm

EndlessCadence wrote:
Oct 24 2018 3:28pm
gaber wrote:
Oct 24 2018 3:17pm
Any idea why I would keep getting a 404 error when trying to edit the glossary page you created? My account is verified.
404s is really strange, doesn't sound like an access or rights issue. I don't have administrative rights for the wiki so I can't check if you have access and the required rights. Can't check the repository settings. We have to wait for Casainho :wink:
GitHub Wikis is a simple way to let others contribute content. Any GitHub user can create and edit pages to use for documentation, examples, support, or anything you wish.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and displays (Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

Doctor Al   1 mW

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by Doctor Al » Oct 24 2018 4:11pm

gaber wrote:
Oct 24 2018 3:04pm
EndlessCadence wrote:
Oct 24 2018 2:59pm
What you did is correct and is maybe not very clearly stated in the wiki. I've changed the wiki a little to improve this and we should add a Windows programming tutorial soon.
That would be great!
Oh I also re downloaded the firmware for the motor, 14.3 rather than 14.2... perhaps that did the trick?

Doctor Al   1 mW

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by Doctor Al » Oct 24 2018 5:26pm

Now up and running.. great power for two seconds then nothing... ideas?

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by jbalat » Oct 24 2018 5:34pm

EndlessCadence wrote:
Oct 24 2018 8:11am
Thanks jbalat!

I've implemented it today, did a test ride and I love how it feels!

:!:

I've released version 0.14.3 which includes this high cadence mode (experimental). You can find it here:
https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... ag/v0.14.3

The wiki has been updated as well:
https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... #8-various
Ha ha thanks EC. You can't go back now !! I told you guys that its sooooooo good, and you don't need to peddle above 95 rpm all the time but its good to know you don't need to change gears now until you run out of steam !!

Let me know if you think the bike is less efficient personally I don't see that, I always manage to hit 220w at 32km/hr which is kind of my benchmark..

If you think it may have less torque lower down then we (I mean you) need to implement a ramp for the FOC angle from 80 at low RPM and 115 at high RPM
Please subscribe to my Youtube home page for Quadcopters, FPV and Bike Rides http://www.youtube.com/jbalatutube
My build log here http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=55352
For some cool ebike talk join us on The Best ebike https://www.facebook.com/groups/193581737807033/
Tech talk TSDZ2 Opensource firmware https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... &start=150
Opensource TSDZ2 Wiki https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... _wiki/wiki

Doctor Al   1 mW

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by Doctor Al » Oct 24 2018 6:03pm

Doctor Al wrote:
Oct 24 2018 5:26pm
Now up and running.. great power for two seconds then nothing... ideas?
think it may be a mismatch in the firmware between motor and controller.

Any good ideas as how to make the lcd easier to program?

Doctor Al   1 mW

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by Doctor Al » Oct 24 2018 6:27pm

is it possible to set the parameters for the bike through the stlink rather than the display buttons. All the defaults are 0 in the latest fw and it takes rather many button presses to get to the values?

Doctor Al   1 mW

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by Doctor Al » Oct 24 2018 6:47pm

So, the display now has the latest firmware to match the motor controller. I've set the parameters using the guide and the bike works just fine on level 1 assistance only. Any other level provides zero boost. Also there is a resistance from the motor when pushing the bike backwards, this goes away when the display is off.

I'm totally new to all this, so please do tell me if I'm posting in the wrong place or just generally being a nuisance, I definitely won't take it personally.

Once again, great work everyone involved, can't wait to get this working properly, have four more motors to replicate the process on...

angusinalberta   1 mW

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Advantage of high cadence?

Post by angusinalberta » Oct 24 2018 7:25pm

Can anyone explain to me the advantage of spinning the pedals at a high cadence? Numbers have been mentioned as high as 120rpm.

There are two reasons I ask. First, any text on bio-mechanics tells us that muscles are strongest when they're stationary and get weaker as he speed of contraction increases. Second, the dyno results for brushless motors always show torque is maximum at zero rpm and drops to zero as the rotational speed increases.

In other words legs and motors both get weaker, force wise, at high rpm, not stronger. What am I missing?

Cheers

xiteamxi   100 mW

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Re: Advantage of high cadence?

Post by xiteamxi » Oct 24 2018 8:42pm

angusinalberta wrote:
Oct 24 2018 7:25pm
Can anyone explain to me the advantage of spinning the pedals at a high cadence? Numbers have been mentioned as high as 120rpm.

There are two reasons I ask. First, any text on bio-mechanics tells us that muscles are strongest when they're stationary and get weaker as he speed of contraction increases. Second, the dyno results for brushless motors always show torque is maximum at zero rpm and drops to zero as the rotational speed increases.

In other words legs and motors both get weaker, force wise, at high rpm, not stronger. What am I missing?

Cheers
less stress on the chain for the same given hp if spinning faster is 1 thing.

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jbalat   10 kW

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by jbalat » Oct 24 2018 10:40pm

Doctor Al wrote:
Oct 24 2018 6:47pm
So, the display now has the latest firmware to match the motor controller. I've set the parameters using the guide and the bike works just fine on level 1 assistance only. Any other level provides zero boost. Also there is a resistance from the motor when pushing the bike backwards, this goes away when the display is off.

I'm totally new to all this, so please do tell me if I'm posting in the wrong place or just generally being a nuisance, I definitely won't take it personally.

Once again, great work everyone involved, can't wait to get this working properly, have four more motors to replicate the process on...
I would do a reset using menu 6.3 and set up you battery cutout voltage and number of cells again
https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... ion-0.14.x
Please subscribe to my Youtube home page for Quadcopters, FPV and Bike Rides http://www.youtube.com/jbalatutube
My build log here http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=55352
For some cool ebike talk join us on The Best ebike https://www.facebook.com/groups/193581737807033/
Tech talk TSDZ2 Opensource firmware https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... &start=150
Opensource TSDZ2 Wiki https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... _wiki/wiki

Doctor Al   1 mW

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by Doctor Al » Oct 25 2018 4:03am

jbalat wrote:
Oct 24 2018 10:40pm
Doctor Al wrote:
Oct 24 2018 6:47pm
So, the display now has the latest firmware to match the motor controller. I've set the parameters using the guide and the bike works just fine on level 1 assistance only. Any other level provides zero boost. Also there is a resistance from the motor when pushing the bike backwards, this goes away when the display is off.

I'm totally new to all this, so please do tell me if I'm posting in the wrong place or just generally being a nuisance, I definitely won't take it personally.

Once again, great work everyone involved, can't wait to get this working properly, have four more motors to replicate the process on...
I would do a reset using menu 6.3 and set up you battery cutout voltage and number of cells again
https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... ion-0.14.x

Thank you J! Great to know that a reset brings up the default values, they are not there after a flash of the firmware. Now everything seems operational. Any tips on how to get the power nice? At the moment the power feels similar to stock.

Very much appreciated all your good work. Motor temperature sensor install is next on the list.

casainho   1.21 GW

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by casainho » Oct 25 2018 4:26am

Help to debug lag issue
See about this issue here: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... e/issues/9

For the ones that are interested in helping solve this issue, please help by looking at the following values on LCD3:
9: Advanced technical data
submenu number configuration name description
3 Pedal torque sensor
4 Pedal cadence
5 Pedal human power
6 PWM duty cycle


The idea is to see how that values changes when the issue happen, like stop pedaling and then pedal again and look at that values. How do they change when the issue happen?
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and displays (Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by jbalat » Oct 25 2018 5:14am

Doctor
I use 5 levels only no boost. Level 5 is 5000w
Level 1 is 800w interpolate for the rest
Enjoy
Please subscribe to my Youtube home page for Quadcopters, FPV and Bike Rides http://www.youtube.com/jbalatutube
My build log here http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=55352
For some cool ebike talk join us on The Best ebike https://www.facebook.com/groups/193581737807033/
Tech talk TSDZ2 Opensource firmware https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... &start=150
Opensource TSDZ2 Wiki https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... _wiki/wiki

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by casainho » Oct 25 2018 5:20am

jbalat wrote:
Oct 25 2018 5:14am
Doctor
I use 5 levels only no boost. Level 5 is 5000w
Level 1 is 800w interpolate for the rest
Enjoy
Would be nice if we could find good values to be the default ones, for 5 assist levels.

So, I think we can consider, based on jbalat values:
1 - 800W
2 - 1850W
3 - 2900W
4 - 3950W
5 - 5000W
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and displays (Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

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jbalat   10 kW

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by jbalat » Oct 25 2018 5:39am

casainho wrote:
Oct 25 2018 5:20am
jbalat wrote:
Oct 25 2018 5:14am
Doctor
I use 5 levels only no boost. Level 5 is 5000w
Level 1 is 800w interpolate for the rest
Enjoy
Would be nice if we could find good values to be the default ones, for 5 assist levels.

So, I think we can consider, based on jbalat values:
1 - 800W
2 - 1850W
3 - 2900W
4 - 3950W
5 - 5000W
I would prefer we go back to assist level, like 0.8, 1.8, 2.9..... the fact that we now associate the assist to 5000w does not make sense to me
Please subscribe to my Youtube home page for Quadcopters, FPV and Bike Rides http://www.youtube.com/jbalatutube
My build log here http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=55352
For some cool ebike talk join us on The Best ebike https://www.facebook.com/groups/193581737807033/
Tech talk TSDZ2 Opensource firmware https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... &start=150
Opensource TSDZ2 Wiki https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... _wiki/wiki

casainho   1.21 GW

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by casainho » Oct 25 2018 6:53am

jbalat wrote:
Oct 25 2018 5:39am
casainho wrote:
Oct 25 2018 5:20am
jbalat wrote:
Oct 25 2018 5:14am
Doctor
I use 5 levels only no boost. Level 5 is 5000w
Level 1 is 800w interpolate for the rest
Enjoy
Would be nice if we could find good values to be the default ones, for 5 assist levels.

So, I think we can consider, based on jbalat values:
1 - 800W
2 - 1850W
3 - 2900W
4 - 3950W
5 - 5000W
I would prefer we go back to assist level, like 0.8, 1.8, 2.9..... the fact that we now associate the assist to 5000w does not make sense to me
I have a better plan, as I wrote on issue #3:
I think is not a good idea, strategically, because:

1. there is no mean for that factor, while it is now is for motor watts that means energy
2. users want defines assist level as a factor of pedal human power in watts/energy

A good plan would be for now to keep as it is and next develop the code for reading pedals watts (I did that before and I can recover the code on git history) and plug the 2 values and so finally users would set the assist level as a factor of pedal human power.
The plan is that and also show to user the force applied to pedals as kgs (easy for user to understand and measure itself if he want to validate).

We have all resources needed to implement that, as we can measure pedal cadence already and we know that each ADC unit of torque sensor represents 1kg of force. We just need other developers to help develop this code.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and displays (Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by maximusdm » Oct 25 2018 1:05pm

jbalat wrote:
Oct 24 2018 5:34pm
Ha ha thanks EC. You can't go back now !! I told you guys that its sooooooo good, and you don't need to peddle above 95 rpm all the time but its good to know you don't need to change gears now until you run out of steam !!

Let me know if you think the bike is less efficient personally I don't see that, I always manage to hit 220w at 32km/hr which is kind of my benchmark..

If you think it may have less torque lower down then we (I mean you) need to implement a ramp for the FOC angle from 80 at low RPM and 115 at high RPM
Hi Jblat,

I need some help to make this work on 48v. I do not want to kill the motor.
Any sugestions to the FOC angle? Now it is 143. I was thinking to test at 175.
MOTOR_OVER_SPEED_ERPS_EXPERIMENTAL 700 should remain same?

Regarding power, I changed MAX_CANDENCE to 95 because i was limited in rpm.
Now I use as assistance 350-700-1000w and is super. I use no boost. I tryed and it did not feel natural.
At 700w on flat city drive i reach 400-500 in peak pushing at startup.

Thanks.

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by jbalat » Oct 25 2018 5:45pm

maximusdm wrote:
Oct 25 2018 1:05pm
jbalat wrote:
Oct 24 2018 5:34pm
Ha ha thanks EC. You can't go back now !! I told you guys that its sooooooo good, and you don't need to peddle above 95 rpm all the time but its good to know you don't need to change gears now until you run out of steam !!

Let me know if you think the bike is less efficient personally I don't see that, I always manage to hit 220w at 32km/hr which is kind of my benchmark..

If you think it may have less torque lower down then we (I mean you) need to implement a ramp for the FOC angle from 80 at low RPM and 115 at high RPM
Hi Jblat,

I need some help to make this work on 48v. I do not want to kill the motor.
Any sugestions to the FOC angle? Now it is 143. I was thinking to test at 175.
MOTOR_OVER_SPEED_ERPS_EXPERIMENTAL 700 should remain same?

Regarding power, I changed MAX_CANDENCE to 95 because i was limited in rpm.
Now I use as assistance 350-700-1000w and is super. I use no boost. I tryed and it did not feel natural.
At 700w on flat city drive i reach 400-500 in peak pushing at startup.

Thanks.
keep all values the same ERPS=700, MAX_CADENCE=130 but try the default FOC_ANGLE. If the FOC_ANGLE is too low then you won't be able to get to 120 cadence, the motor will just die, so keep increasing it until you can get the cadence to 120 and it feels smooth.

As for the power assist settings, you just need to keep playing around until it feels right for you. Once you have these settings then use the top two buttons to limit the max power based on whether you want to save battery or just to limit the power when taking off up a hill so you dont break your chain.
Please subscribe to my Youtube home page for Quadcopters, FPV and Bike Rides http://www.youtube.com/jbalatutube
My build log here http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=55352
For some cool ebike talk join us on The Best ebike https://www.facebook.com/groups/193581737807033/
Tech talk TSDZ2 Opensource firmware https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... &start=150
Opensource TSDZ2 Wiki https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... _wiki/wiki

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by jbalat » Oct 25 2018 5:46pm

maximusdm wrote:
Oct 25 2018 1:05pm
Hi Jblat,

I need some help to make this work on 48v. I do not want to kill the motor.
Any sugestions to the FOC angle? Now it is 143. I was thinking to test at 175.
MOTOR_OVER_SPEED_ERPS_EXPERIMENTAL 700 should remain same?

Regarding power, I changed MAX_CANDENCE to 95 because i was limited in rpm.
Now I use as assistance 350-700-1000w and is super. I use no boost. I tryed and it did not feel natural.
At 700w on flat city drive i reach 400-500 in peak pushing at startup.
keep all values the same ERPS=700, MAX_CADENCE=130 but try the default FOC_ANGLE. If the FOC_ANGLE is too low then you won't be able to get to 120 cadence, the motor will just die, so keep increasing it until you can get the cadence to 120 and it feels smooth.

As for the power assist settings, you just need to keep playing around until it feels right for you. Once you have these settings then use the top two buttons to limit the max power based on whether you want to save battery or just to limit the power when taking off up a hill so you dont break your chain.
[/quote]
Please subscribe to my Youtube home page for Quadcopters, FPV and Bike Rides http://www.youtube.com/jbalatutube
My build log here http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=55352
For some cool ebike talk join us on The Best ebike https://www.facebook.com/groups/193581737807033/
Tech talk TSDZ2 Opensource firmware https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... &start=150
Opensource TSDZ2 Wiki https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... _wiki/wiki

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