TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Electric Motors and Controllers
Eremit   10 mW

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by Eremit » Nov 26 2018 12:39am

casainho wrote:
Nov 15 2018 9:26am

I also think would be complex to start having many configurations for each assist level. I think is better to try quick change each configuration.

What I see now is a way to quick cycle from assist level and max power, and use UP/DOWN buttons to increase/decrease the values.

With color LCD I think this can be improved to user, but not the buttons as they are they same 3 buttons:

Current status:

Well, almost everyone of us have a 4-key pad cutted from the LCD 5 at home. Using that, is a 25% higher bandwidth in User Interaction:
-faster Walkmode
-faster Light
-four keys to navigate the setup. (Like in older Lumix-Cams) -- much better than 3. (well this could be done via UART and Smartphone)

So all what's needed is a free digital input pin in the C850...

andyme   100 W

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by andyme » Nov 26 2018 8:00am

jbalat wrote:
Nov 15 2018 12:36am
casainho wrote:
Nov 14 2018 11:40pm
jbalat wrote:
Nov 14 2018 11:38pm
I can't do it :(
Press up
Then let go
Then hold up for a few seconds

Does this toggle between human power and cadence if you do it right ?
Hmm, it is fast click and after long click
Ok I will keep trying, I only loaded ver 15 on the lcd, I’m assuming I don’t need 16
if i press the "up" button shortly and then long, the display light will go on, it does not make a difference whether i pushed the up button before shortly or not at all.

So obvioulsy i am not doing what should be done...but i cannot understand better what must be done...maybe someone can explain it or make a short video?

also: is my understanding correct that we currently have no information on total km anymore? If I am wrong: what do i have to do to get to this information? My only information is km from start of the ride until the next stop which i have to write down before the LCD will switch off, because after that it will restart at zero...people are writing that cadence is not showing, but nobody is writing that distances are not shown..so i wonder what i may be missing.

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by Rafe » Nov 26 2018 9:44am

Andyme you have to be really quick with the presses no pauses at all. Quick press up then straight into long press up. If you do that when trip km is displayed it takes you into the ODO display.


As for power boost as I said it is working for me but it is on hills when the lag has been most noticeable and when the motor restarts it is in normal assist not power boost. For example yesterday all was working well up a steep hill and on a flat bit I coasted a little and when I started pedaling again power boost came in as expected. At the top as it was levelling off I briefly stopped pedaling to change up several gears in one go (internal gear hub) and when I restarted there was a very noticeable lag before the motor cut back in and when it did it was normal assist not power boost so I guess lag and power boost are still linked as they were previously.

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by andyme » Nov 26 2018 10:00am

Rafe wrote:
Nov 26 2018 9:44am
Andyme you have to be really quick with the presses no pauses at all. Quick press up then straight into long press up. If you do that when trip km is displayed it takes you into the ODO display.

As for power boost as I said it is working for me but it is on hills when the lag has been most noticeable and when the motor restarts it is in normal assist not power boost. For example yesterday all was working well up a steep hill and on a flat bit I coasted a little and when I started pedaling again power boost came in as expected. At the top as it was levelling off I briefly stopped pedaling to change up several gears in one go (internal gear hub) and when I restarted there was a very noticeable lag before the motor cut back in and when it did it was normal assist not power boost so I guess lag and power boost are still linked as they were previously.
Hey, thanks so much, now i got it! :D

re. boost: ok, i think your observation is basically the same as mine...would you agree when i am saying: boost is not working when you need it most? I mean: if i am supposed to start on a hill not only without boost but initially also without assistance altogether, then i think it is safe to say that activating boost can have a significant negative impact on the performance ...it cannot stay this way unless we forget about boost altogether.

I think it is important that we all mention our observations since we - as users - are depending on the coders to implement corrections. So if something is accepted by casainho and other capable people as an issue, chances for it to be taken care of are better than if a single moron like me keeps repeating things... :lol:

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by nz_bound » Nov 26 2018 8:13pm

So I just installed the firmware for the first time (my first build). I want to thank everyone who has helped to make this software available and understandable. I have learned a lot along the way. I have a few issues and would like some help. I apologize if this is the wrong space to ask newbie install questions; if so let me know and I will try to remove my questions and post elsewhere.

Hardware: Firmware:
  • KT-LCD3-v0.16.0.hex
  • TSDZ2-v0.16.0.hex
I have been following the 0.15.x usage and configuration page because I did not see a 0.16.x one.

I have configured the following settings.

0: General Basic Setup
  • Max wheel speed --> 50
  • Wheel Perimeter in mm -->2300
  • Speed Unit ---> 1 (mph)
1: Battery
  • Max Current --> 24 :?: (per battery supplier "Samsung 35E: ~25A Continuous, 34A Max Burst Current")
  • Battery Low cut-off voltage --> 40.6 :?: (I am unsure of this value I used 2.9 x 14 = 40.6)
  • Number of cells --> 14
  • Battery pack resistance --> 130 (need to follow the steps to update this)
  • Battery voltage --> Currently = 51.0
2: Battery power setup - 9: Advanced technical data
  • Default Values
Do I have the battery setup correct (menu #1) for my specific battery?

The motor seemed really responsive and would output several hundred watts (first half mile), but then after playing with the assist levels while riding it seems to only output 60-70 watts no matter how hard I pedal in max assist (level 5). What happened? Did I configure something incorrectly? Did I bump a setting while adjusting the assist levels? Did I break something?

Least important; Is it possible to output miles on the odometer?

TLDR: Motor will only output 60-70 watts peak.

andyme   100 W

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by andyme » Nov 26 2018 8:36pm

nz_bound wrote:
Nov 26 2018 8:13pm
So I just installed the firmware for the first time (my first build). I want to thank everyone who has helped to make this software available and understandable. I have learned a lot along the way. I have a few issues and would like some help. I apologize if this is the wrong space to ask newbie install questions; if so let me know and I will try to remove my questions and post elsewhere.

Hardware: Firmware:
  • KT-LCD3-v0.16.0.hex
  • TSDZ2-v0.16.0.hex
I have been following the 0.15.x usage and configuration page because I did not see a 0.16.x one.

I have configured the following settings.

0: General Basic Setup
  • Max wheel speed --> 50
  • Wheel Perimeter in mm -->2300
  • Speed Unit ---> 1 (mph)
1: Battery
  • Max Current --> 24 :?: (per battery supplier "Samsung 35E: ~25A Continuous, 34A Max Burst Current")
  • Battery Low cut-off voltage --> 40.6 :?: (I am unsure of this value I used 2.9 x 14 = 40.6)
  • Number of cells --> 14
  • Battery pack resistance --> 130 (need to follow the steps to update this)
  • Battery voltage --> Currently = 51.0
2: Battery power setup - 9: Advanced technical data
  • Default Values
Do I have the battery setup correct (menu #1) for my specific battery?

The motor seemed really responsive and would output several hundred watts (first half mile), but then after playing with the assist levels while riding it seems to only output 60-70 watts no matter how hard I pedal in max assist (level 5). What happened? Did I configure something incorrectly? Did I bump a setting while adjusting the assist levels? Did I break something?

Least important; Is it possible to output miles on the odometer?

TLDR: Motor will only output 60-70 watts peak.
hi, i don°t think that your setttings are the origin of the problem. max current is too high, it cannot be more than 18 amps, but this is limited anyway. someone posted a simikar case i think, the remedy then was to flash again. maybe you just want to try that? it won't harm...

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by nz_bound » Nov 26 2018 9:01pm

hi, i don°t think that your setttings are the origin of the problem. max current is too high, it cannot be more than 18 amps, but this is limited anyway. someone posted a simikar case i think, the remedy then was to flash again. maybe you just want to try that? it won't harm...
Thanks for the response. I was rereading all of the documentation and watching the youtube videos (casainho and jbalatutube) to see what I might have messed up. I seemed to have missed the max power screen (Long click on on/off and up buttons). For whatever reason it had changed to a max of 50. I set it to a higher value and it seems to work again. What is a safe limit on this value? Can it be set too high and strip the blue gear, or are there other safeguards in place to prevent internal damage?

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by linklemming » Nov 26 2018 11:14pm

nz_bound wrote:
Nov 26 2018 9:01pm
Thanks for the response. I was rereading all of the documentation and watching the youtube videos (casainho and jbalatutube) to see what I might have messed up. I seemed to have missed the max power screen (Long click on on/off and up buttons). For whatever reason it had changed to a max of 50. I set it to a higher value and it seems to work again. What is a safe limit on this value? Can it be set too high and strip the blue gear, or are there other safeguards in place to prevent internal damage?
Whats happening is that when you are hitting up button to change assist levels you are also touching the on/off button.

The combination of these two buttons gets you into the menu to change power level and if you try to up the assist level again it will change from the default of 0 to 50.

Happens to me quite alot. I finally just setup offroad mode so this two button combination just toggles offroad mode

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by linklemming » Nov 27 2018 1:11am

Well I did a ride today and as many have noted, the human power is just off.

1.5 hours at 350 to 450 watts(human power) and it wasnt even a hard ride according to my HR and Im in my mid 50s and not the leanest. My legs are not even really sore. Stock/default assist setup running assist level 2-4. 30 miles and 1200ft vertical for average speed of 15mph.

Dont get me wrong, Im very happy with this SW, something just seems off. If I was 'truly' at 350w human power and had assist multiplier at 2, why am I not seeing motor power at something like 600W (which is what I have it limited at) instead of the 300-400w (motor power) im seeing

Perhaps I need to join a pro cycling team :o

Still digging thru the code

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by jbalat » Nov 27 2018 4:13am

Thanks for the post about getting the extra readout
Short press then immediately with long press and hold until it changes. Top button only
Got my cadence back, it is very laggy but it works !!

On the distance it will toggle to odometer
Voltage toggles to amps
Human power to cadence
Not sure about the others
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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by jbalat » Nov 27 2018 4:58am

linklemming wrote:
Nov 27 2018 1:11am
If I was 'truly' at 350w human power and had assist multiplier at 2, why am I not seeing motor power at something like 600W (which is what I have it limited at) instead of the 300-400w (motor power) im seeing
So double check your stats. Power = volts * amps
So when you were expecting 600w what was your voltage after sag, what was your current ? Can the bms and batteries deliver that current ?
Also if you were near the end of your battery the firmware starts limiting the power so try with full battery. What setting did you use for max amps in the menu.. did you use the middle and top buttons to set max power ? If so set this to zero so it's not limited.
Also please turn off power boost when testing, I'm not sure what effect it has on all this, since everyone claims it's a bit flaky.
Try a multiplier of 1.5 instead and see if that works better since 2 is a bit too much
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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by andyme » Nov 27 2018 5:28am

nz_bound wrote:
Nov 26 2018 9:01pm

What is a safe limit on this value? Can it be set too high and strip the blue gear, or are there other safeguards in place to prevent internal damage?
let's continue this over here: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... start=3850

this thread is supposed to be kept for firmware issues

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by spiked » Nov 27 2018 10:18am

Hi all,

Now that things have settled down in the development, I've flashed my LCD3 and TSDZ2 to version v0.16.0/No Throttle. I went through the config screens, and think I have things set up properly for my system (I have a 48v TSDZ2 8 wire, with LiFePo4 20ah battery).

I haven't ridden it yet, but I have noticed one issue. My lights, which worked fine under the stock setup with VLCD5, no longer light up when I turn them on from the LCD3 (LCD3 backlight comes on, but front and rear lights, wired through the standard Y cable, do not). These are standard, low wattage lights supplied with the motor.

Can others confirm their lights are working under 0.16.0? I didn't think there was any wiring between LCD3 and TSDZ2 that involved the lights, so I can't figure out why switching from VLCD5 to LCD3 would cause this...

Thanks for all the work on this firmware - I'm looking forward to giving my bike a good workout with the new config.

Neil

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by Antenor » Nov 27 2018 12:10pm

The throtle works with the firmware?

If it does, the lag is corrected by firmware?

Thank you

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by Rafe » Nov 27 2018 5:09pm

Antenor wrote:
Nov 27 2018 12:10pm
The throtle works with the firmware?

If it does, the lag is corrected by firmware?

Thank you

Yes throttle works but as in earlier firmwares it is either on or off so doesn't really act as a throttle but more of an off switch, Be careful as it is quite capable of stripping the blue gear before you know it if you use it to start on a steep slope. With the BBS HD it's possible with the programming lead to make the throttle act like a real throttle and it would be nice to have that on this drive too.

Lag is still there not as long as before and seems to me associated with power boost and just a few times for me much longer than before which is no fun if you are expecting the motor to assist say on a busy junction.

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by linklemming » Nov 27 2018 6:35pm

jbalat wrote:
Nov 27 2018 4:58am
So double check your stats. Power = volts * amps
So when you were expecting 600w what was your voltage after sag, what was your current ? Can the bms and batteries deliver that current ?
Also if you were near the end of your battery the firmware starts limiting the power so try with full battery. What setting did you use for max amps in the menu.. did you use the middle and top buttons to set max power ? If so set this to zero so it's not limited.
Also please turn off power boost when testing, I'm not sure what effect it has on all this, since everyone claims it's a bit flaky.
Try a multiplier of 1.5 instead and see if that works better since 2 is a bit too much
Yup, ohms power law has always served me well.

Im using stock default settings for max amps(16) and lvc(39) for my 48V 10ah pack. I would say I have never seen lower than 42V while testing this. Hard to say on the amps as it doesnt show up on my display. This occurs no matter what I set max power to (650 or 0)

Boost doesnt seem to work for me so I leave it off.

Im ok with the performance of the bike, its just that the motor power seemed low considering the assist level/multiplier. It never occurred to me that it might be the battery limiting current. The battery has never felt warm/hot

This is the battery Im using
https://www.eco-ebike.com/collections/4 ... rk-battery

My original intent was to run this at a lower limited power anyway like 500W. I was just perplexed when I set it to 650 that I only saw 650W at lower human power levels.

What are the assist levels/multiplier you use?

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by jbalat » Nov 27 2018 10:36pm

it says 20A continuous so should be able to get 16A @ 42v = 672W max

up the 16A to 18 to get more

short click and imediate long click of the top button when viewing the voltage to toggle to Amps

Not sure of my exact settings but something like 0.7, 1, 1.5, 2, 2.5 but I always ride on level 2 or 3

set limit power to zero in the top/middle buttons. Even if you set it to like 800w it always gives you less watts than setting to zero.

I try to run at 220w continuous as a rule
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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by linklemming » Nov 28 2018 4:58am

jbalat wrote:
Nov 27 2018 10:36pm
it says 20A continuous so should be able to get 16A @ 42v = 672W max

up the 16A to 18 to get more

short click and imediate long click of the top button when viewing the voltage to toggle to Amps

Not sure of my exact settings but something like 0.7, 1, 1.5, 2, 2.5 but I always ride on level 2 or 3

set limit power to zero in the top/middle buttons. Even if you set it to like 800w it always gives you less watts than setting to zero.

I try to run at 220w continuous as a rule
Yeah, I was looking at the code for displaying amps, knew it was possible but havnt tried it yet.

Your assist levels are pretty close to defaults which are 0.5, 1.0, 1.5, 2.0, 2.5

As a reference, these are close to the bosch (see Support Level % in link)

https://www.bosch-ebike.com/us/products ... e-line-cx/

Yes, power level, Im not sure is correctly implemented, wherever I see it used in the code there is a comment of "TODO"

I will try it tomorrow on the workout stand with power limit of 0 and some other power level to see if I can see a difference.

As implemented, it(power limit) seems to be tied to startup power boost feature. Specifically, current limit based upon power limit seems to only take effect if "limit boost power to max battery power value" field in 'startup power boost" is set to 1 (ebike_app.c line 258 in 0.16.0). Im still digging thru the code and could be wrong (happens all the time)

So much trickery in the code to work on an 8 bit processor, reminds me of software I wrote in the 80s. Hopefully manufacturers will upgrade to STM32 F3 processor, probably wouldnt add more than one or two dollars in costs.

Your in the drone/FPV hobby(as am I), its like comparing multiwii to betaflight (or even baseflight/cleanflight)

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by BrisneyLand » Nov 28 2018 5:48am

andyme wrote:
Nov 25 2018 1:33pm
jbalat proposed his settings that differ very much from default...and then i used settings along these lines and suddenly the motor performs the way it makes sense to me....( i trusted the default settings, because in past versions they did work well and i was advised to use them...how could i know that suddenly it was not the case anymore?....)
Can someone point out thos settings from jbalat please?

I've just flashed 0.16 and have stuck with the defaults, so any tweaks would be appreciated.

I've also noticed there is significant resistance when I push my bike backwards. It is very difficult to push it backwards and makes maneuvering the bike by hand very difficult. Any ideas about this?

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by andyme » Nov 28 2018 5:56am

BrisneyLand wrote:
Nov 28 2018 5:48am
andyme wrote:
Nov 25 2018 1:33pm
jbalat proposed his settings that differ very much from default...and then i used settings along these lines and suddenly the motor performs the way it makes sense to me....( i trusted the default settings, because in past versions they did work well and i was advised to use them...how could i know that suddenly it was not the case anymore?....)
Can someone point out thos settings from jbalat please?

I've just flashed 0.16 and have stuck with the defaults, so any tweaks would be appreciated.

I've also noticed there is significant resistance when I push my bike backwards. It is very difficult to push it backwards and makes maneuvering the bike by hand very difficult. Any ideas about this?
all he said was to configure a couple of assist levels with multipliers below 1: level 1: 0.3, 2: 0.5, 3: 0.8, 4:1 etc
of course this is a matter of personal preference. Default assignments are rather high, that makes most of the assist levels feel very similar as you get up to full support in almost all of them.

the push back problem is a known issue, it is listed here: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... ike/issues

there are a few issues pending, i hope someone will be able to take care of them.

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by linklemming » Nov 28 2018 6:00am

BrisneyLand wrote:
Nov 28 2018 5:48am
andyme wrote:
Nov 25 2018 1:33pm
jbalat proposed his settings that differ very much from default...and then i used settings along these lines and suddenly the motor performs the way it makes sense to me....( i trusted the default settings, because in past versions they did work well and i was advised to use them...how could i know that suddenly it was not the case anymore?....)
Can someone point out thos settings from jbalat please?

I've just flashed 0.16 and have stuck with the defaults, so any tweaks would be appreciated.

I've also noticed there is significant resistance when I push my bike backwards. It is very difficult to push it backwards and makes maneuvering the bike by hand very difficult. Any ideas about this?
Stock settings should work fine if your using a 48V setup.

I noticed the 'hard to go backwards' issue as well, I bet it gets easier if you select a different gear

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by andyme » Nov 28 2018 6:32am

linklemming wrote:
Nov 28 2018 6:00am


Stock settings should work fine if your using a 48V setup.

I noticed the 'hard to go backwards' issue as well, I bet it gets easier if you select a different gear
"not true for me" in both cases...

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by BrisneyLand » Nov 28 2018 6:36am

Thanks for the replies. I added the multipliers and will see what they;re like on my ride to work tomorrow.

Seems like the drag in reverse issue is a bit tricky, and it makes no difference if my bike is in a high or low gear. I'm running an alfine 8 hub. Easy work around is to turn the motor off if I need to push it backwards :-)

Thanks to casianho, EC, and jbalat for all the excellent work on this.

Do you guys have a paypal account I can chuck some change into to say thanks?

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by andyme » Nov 28 2018 7:21am

BrisneyLand wrote:
Nov 28 2018 6:36am

Do you guys have a paypal account I can chuck some change into to say thanks?
i second that. Had this idea already some time ago and then forgot to post it. I too would love to make a donation to show my appreciation.

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by spiked » Nov 28 2018 2:06pm

spiked wrote:
Nov 27 2018 10:18am
. My lights, which worked fine under the stock setup with VLCD5, no longer light up when I turn them on from the LCD3 (LCD3 backlight comes on, but front and rear lights, wired through the standard Y cable, do not). These are standard, low wattage lights supplied with the motor.
Can anyone confirm their lights work in 0.16.0? Any suggestions as to why mine stopped working when I installed LCD3 and the 0.16 firmware?

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