TSDZ2 mid drive and 850C and SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Electric Motors and Controllers
mctubster   100 W

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by mctubster » Nov 05 2019 1:59pm

Waynemarlow wrote:
Nov 04 2019 4:23am

Just checked and I have field 8-6 enabled. On trying again I can change the setting about 20 - 30% of the time but you have to do the shift from the home key to pushing the up key and then long push on the up key incredibly rapidly which then moves the field across one before it comes back out into the main screen, not ideal but workable but really needs either the delay times changing or we have a rethink on how that key input works.

Thanks though for the hints.
Maybe your buttons are faulty? You shouldn't need to quick switch from home to the up button. Just use the home/power button to get to screen 7. Wait a few seconds, quickly click up release and the click hold until the display changes?

What code are you running?

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by Waynemarlow » Nov 05 2019 3:00pm

mctubster wrote:
Nov 05 2019 1:59pm
Waynemarlow wrote:
Nov 04 2019 4:23am

Just checked and I have field 8-6 enabled. On trying again I can change the setting about 20 - 30% of the time but you have to do the shift from the home key to pushing the up key and then long push on the up key incredibly rapidly which then moves the field across one before it comes back out into the main screen, not ideal but workable but really needs either the delay times changing or we have a rethink on how that key input works.

Thanks though for the hints.
Maybe your buttons are faulty? You shouldn't need to quick switch from home to the up button. Just use the home/power button to get to screen 7. Wait a few seconds, quickly click up release and the click hold until the display changes?

What code are you running?
V20 Beta 1 on both motor and display.

The more I try the more I can get the field to change, but its a really fine time moment between the centre display going back to non blinking and on the long push the light turning on.

Thanks

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by Waynemarlow » Nov 05 2019 3:09pm

Waynemarlow wrote:
Oct 31 2019 5:39am
Backed off the power levels to 0.2, 0.3, 0.4, 0.6, 0.9, 1.3, 1.8, 2.4, 3.0 which gives a nice level of power shift with some overlap of power levels. Based on a 650w max output ( 48V x 14A = 672 ) with a rider input of approx. 200 and bit Watts which is quite a bit for an average rider
Went for a 2 hour ride with guys not on Ebikes and the settings I gave are sort of in the ballpark except the starting level of 0.2 which actually is too low. I used level 2 mainly tracking the slower riders ( which is 0.3 ) which felt almost like a non engined bike, I would suspect that the motor windings and friction of the gears was about the 40W the motor was using in that 0.3.

I'm going to try starting from 0.3 in the first level and build up from there.

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by buba » Nov 05 2019 5:21pm

jbalat wrote:
Oct 04 2019 5:49am
Hot weather coming here so will be taking some pointers soon thanks for sharing.

Btw I tried v0.20 b1 today. Commuting to work 17km each way. Firstly it was a very easy upgrade and setup from v0.16, I experienced no issues and the wiki was easy to follow.
I tried all modes but found emtb and torque modes far too tiring for commuting with a headwind. But I am looking forwards to trying emtb mode offroad soon where I think it will shine. Cadence mode was really scary giving very little control over speed, I don't know how the bbs guys do it every day although I can see if you had a long journey and were feeling lazy then it could come in handy. My favourite was power mode which combines torque and cadence, I was able to set it up so it chewed through similar power to my setup in v0.16 (About 220w at 30km/hr). It seemed identical at first but after doing a tight u-turn onto an uphill ramp I pushed a little harder so I wouldn't stall and my front wheel lifted in the air, wow what a buzz, finally some real power !!!
Other things I tried and loved were.. no resistance pushing back, walk mode and cruise mode. Cruise mode drops a couple of kms when it engages so not sure if im doing sometging wrong but it does work nicely once its engaged and will chew through your battery if you are not careful.
All in all it is the best release yet giving so many features and options for everyone's tastes.
Good work to all involved !!
Great feedback and thank you so much! :D

jbalat wrote:
Oct 04 2019 5:49am
Cruise mode drops a couple of kms when it engages so not sure if im doing sometging wrong but it does work nicely once its engaged and will chew through your battery if you are not careful.
Cruise should be activated while at speed and pedaling. As soon as Cruise is activated you can stop pedaling but preferably not sooner as you will loose speed. So try to keep pedaling until you feel Cruise taking over. This is similar to keeping the accelerator pressed on a car until the cruise function is activated and holding the speed. Only difference with our Cruise function is that we have a small delay for safety.

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by buba » Nov 05 2019 5:29pm

jbalat wrote:
Oct 07 2019 5:49pm
Nice so it LVC is reached then power keeps dropping to ensure LVC is not violated again ?

I assume that eventually the power cannot be dropped any more and the motor will turn off ?
Yes! You will still have the system powered for a very long time but the motor power will be restricted. Eventually it will just stop assisting.

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by buba » Nov 05 2019 5:35pm

thineight wrote:
Oct 09 2019 6:47am
Thanks Buba and phidauex, now it's a bit more clear the reason behind the power reduction.

Generally speaking, what is a reasonable LCV value for a 36v battery? I've to double cheek what I set initially, I remember 29 or 30v (2.9-3.0v per cell). Reasonable?

Thanks
Thank you for the appreciation!

It depends. But for a 36 volt battery your are safe to go down to 30 volt during load. Depending on the cells used in your battery it might be safe to go down to 2.5 volt per cell = 25 volt during load. But again, it all depends on the cells you have and if you want to trade battery lifespan to range.

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by thineight » Nov 05 2019 5:36pm

buba wrote:
Nov 05 2019 5:29pm
jbalat wrote:
Oct 07 2019 5:49pm
Nice so it LVC is reached then power keeps dropping to ensure LVC is not violated again ?

I assume that eventually the power cannot be dropped any more and the motor will turn off ?
Yes! You will still have the system powered for a very long time but the motor power will be restricted. Eventually it will just stop assisting.
Hey Buba, glad to see you're back!! :thumb:
MTB KTM Ultra 29" - City bike DAYTONA 28"

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by buba » Nov 05 2019 5:44pm

plasmdude wrote:
Oct 09 2019 11:56am
Shameless thank you plug! I have been following this TSDZ2 thread since February slowing gathering supplies and finding time to install. I have now put 1.4k miles on my build and its a joy. I use for my commute into work 20 mile round trip.

I installed the v0.20-beta.1 last night and am loving it! The options for the flashing lights is amazing! Have not got a chance yet to play with the other drive modes but excited to try.

Things I am excited to look into:
- The thermal mod with temp sensor
- Brake sensor
- Does anyone bother with gear shift sensor?
Great to hear! :D

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by buba » Nov 05 2019 5:46pm

Nfer wrote:
Oct 09 2019 2:43pm
has the startup boost funcionality been removed from 0.20? I don't see it in the 0.20 configuration manual on the wiki
It is removed but the overall system should be improved and the response should be much better. Try out the stable 0.20.0 when it is released and see if you manage without it. There are several different riding modes to choose from. I really hope you will like it!

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by buba » Nov 05 2019 5:50pm

daenny wrote:
Oct 13 2019 4:27pm
Nfer wrote:
Oct 11 2019 8:50am
casainho wrote:
Oct 11 2019 2:35am
Nfer wrote:
Oct 09 2019 2:43pm
has the startup boost funcionality been removed from 0.20? I don't see it in the 0.20 configuration manual on the wiki
Buba removed that feature from 0.20.0 but I plan to implement it again on 0.21.0. In fact, I created an issue so I will not forget this: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... issues/123
Ok. Thanks for the update. I haven't tried the 0.20 beta but, at least for me commuting in a city environment with red light every intersection, this startup customization is the most important feature. As 0.19 works fine so far, I think I will jump to 0.21, otherwise marcoq is able to do some magic and keep the soft start in his java installer
Thanks guys for all the effort and hours that you all are spending on this amazing project.
I would recommend trying 0.20 beta. In emtb mode the startup is great, as it reacts much much quicker than 0.19 you really do not need the boost. I am using the recommended advanced PAS setting and 30 as value for the advanced motor tuning (running 12s lipo on 48V motor) . With hard pushing from stand still, the bike jumps to 700-800 watts below a second.
:bigthumb:

windburner wrote:
Oct 13 2019 8:04pm
WOW! I just read through the 0.20 beta feature configuration, and it seems to offer a great set of capabilities for the TSDZ2. I am using/testing with the SW-102 display, which is presently limited to 0.19, but, I have a lot for which to look forward. The embt mode seems to offer exactly what I'm looking for, that is, no assistance until the torque goes above a certain target to maximize our exercise effectiveness. Then it can phase in the assistance, up to max power, to shrink the hills on our routes, with no more seeking the right assist level. Great, if I ?understand? it correctly.
You are completely correct!

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by buba » Nov 05 2019 6:06pm

jeff.page.rides wrote:
Oct 21 2019 4:20am
jeff.page.rides wrote:
Oct 20 2019 9:07pm
Rydon wrote:
Oct 18 2019 4:39pm
jeff.page.rides wrote:
Oct 16 2019 6:18pm
I've been using version 20 Alpha 10 on one handcycle and version 20 beta 1 from Buba's original version on his drive on the other handcycle. We just Flashed the TSDZ2 that had Buba's original version with version 20 beta 1 from the official site. We didn't reflash that LCD3 with the different version 20. The problem I'm having is that the cadence doesn't work well anymore. On the other 2 versions it seems to be very accurate now with the new official version 20 beta 1 on the TSDZ2 but not the LCD3 it jumps around as far as 40 points at a time it's not accurate at all anymore. What I'd like to know is if it's not accurate because I only flashed the TSDZ2 or if some other problem is causing it not to be accurate anymore?
Jeff, the way you wrote this is a little confusing. Let me clarify:

v20 alpha 10 had steady and reliable cadence readings on the KT-LCD3 display
v20 beta 1 cadence jumps around by as much as 40 and is not steady.

This makes me wonder if there was a code change in the cadence low-pass filter in v20 beta 1
Version 20 alpha 1 cadence worked.
Version 20 beta 1 from Buba's own drive cadence worked.
Version 20 beta 1 from Buba's drive on that LCD3 with the official version 20 beta 1 on the TSDZ2 cadence does not work.
I just read my post, I ment version 20 Alpha 10 not 1
Can you guys confirm there is an error with the official 0.20.0 beta 1? Using the official 0.20.0 Beta 1 firmware for both the motor and display?

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by Waynemarlow » Nov 05 2019 6:11pm

The cadence value on the V20Beta1 ( I downloaded that from Buba's Github ) I'm using is rock steady and I would say very accurate.

Thanks again for all the work you developers are doing.

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by buba » Nov 05 2019 6:47pm

thineight wrote:
Nov 05 2019 5:36pm
Hey Buba, glad to see you're back!! :thumb:
Thank you so much, Thineight!

-----------------------

To everyone in this amazing community:

I have been absent due to several work related projects and have struggled to free up some time. But I made sure to check out the thread once in a while. But the last month has been rough.

Anyway, I hope everyone is enjoying the 0.20.0 Beta 1. I think we can go stable this week. Please let me know if there are any bugs or if there is any feedback that needs to be brought to my attention before we release the stable 0.20.0.
Last edited by buba on Nov 05 2019 6:50pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by buba » Nov 05 2019 6:48pm

Waynemarlow wrote:
Nov 05 2019 6:11pm
The cadence value on the V20Beta1 ( I downloaded that from Buba's Github ) I'm using is rock steady and I would say very accurate.

Thanks again for all the work you developers are doing.
Much appreciated Waynemarlow!

Did you have any problems with the 0.20.0 Beta 1 from the official project page?

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by mctubster » Nov 05 2019 6:53pm

buba wrote:
Nov 05 2019 6:06pm

Can you guys confirm there is an error with the official 0.20.0 beta 1? Using the official 0.20.0 Beta 1 firmware for both the motor and display?
There was some kind of issue with the official Beta 1 Casainho released but I am unsure if it was re-released or everyone has been using your Beta1. I have only ever used your Beta1

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by Rydon » Nov 05 2019 7:01pm

buba wrote:
Nov 05 2019 6:06pm
jeff.page.rides wrote:
Oct 21 2019 4:20am
jeff.page.rides wrote:
Oct 20 2019 9:07pm
Rydon wrote:
Oct 18 2019 4:39pm


Jeff, the way you wrote this is a little confusing. Let me clarify:

v20 alpha 10 had steady and reliable cadence readings on the KT-LCD3 display
v20 beta 1 cadence jumps around by as much as 40 and is not steady.

This makes me wonder if there was a code change in the cadence low-pass filter in v20 beta 1
Version 20 alpha 1 cadence worked.
Version 20 beta 1 from Buba's own drive cadence worked.
Version 20 beta 1 from Buba's drive on that LCD3 with the official version 20 beta 1 on the TSDZ2 cadence does not work.
I just read my post, I ment version 20 Alpha 10 not 1
Can you guys confirm there is an error with the official 0.20.0 beta 1? Using the official 0.20.0 Beta 1 firmware for both the motor and display?
No worries Buba. We'll wait for the release to test this again. Thanks.

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by buba » Nov 05 2019 7:02pm

mctubster wrote:
Nov 05 2019 6:53pm
buba wrote:
Nov 05 2019 6:06pm

Can you guys confirm there is an error with the official 0.20.0 beta 1? Using the official 0.20.0 Beta 1 firmware for both the motor and display?
There was some kind of issue with the official Beta 1 Casainho released but I am unsure if it was re-released or everyone has been using your Beta1. I have only ever used your Beta1
Okay, thank you! I will wait and see if anyone has anything to report.

Also a big thank you for the support in the thread you have given to users.

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by buba » Nov 05 2019 7:07pm

Rydon wrote:
Nov 05 2019 7:01pm
buba wrote:
Nov 05 2019 6:06pm
jeff.page.rides wrote:
Oct 21 2019 4:20am
jeff.page.rides wrote:
Oct 20 2019 9:07pm


Version 20 alpha 1 cadence worked.
Version 20 beta 1 from Buba's own drive cadence worked.
Version 20 beta 1 from Buba's drive on that LCD3 with the official version 20 beta 1 on the TSDZ2 cadence does not work.
I just read my post, I ment version 20 Alpha 10 not 1
Can you guys confirm there is an error with the official 0.20.0 beta 1? Using the official 0.20.0 Beta 1 firmware for both the motor and display?
No worries Buba. We'll wait for the release to test this again. Thanks.
Thank you for the quick reply!

EDIT: Will try to replicate bug!

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by mctubster » Nov 05 2019 9:02pm

buba wrote:
Nov 05 2019 7:02pm
mctubster wrote:
Nov 05 2019 6:53pm
buba wrote:
Nov 05 2019 6:06pm

Can you guys confirm there is an error with the official 0.20.0 beta 1? Using the official 0.20.0 Beta 1 firmware for both the motor and display?
There was some kind of issue with the official Beta 1 Casainho released but I am unsure if it was re-released or everyone has been using your Beta1. I have only ever used your Beta1
Okay, thank you! I will wait and see if anyone has anything to report.

Also a big thank you for the support in the thread you have given to users.
Is it worth me testing the official Beta1 release?

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by buba » Nov 05 2019 9:26pm

mctubster wrote:
Nov 05 2019 9:02pm
buba wrote:
Nov 05 2019 7:02pm
mctubster wrote:
Nov 05 2019 6:53pm
buba wrote:
Nov 05 2019 6:06pm

Can you guys confirm there is an error with the official 0.20.0 beta 1? Using the official 0.20.0 Beta 1 firmware for both the motor and display?
There was some kind of issue with the official Beta 1 Casainho released but I am unsure if it was re-released or everyone has been using your Beta1. I have only ever used your Beta1
Okay, thank you! I will wait and see if anyone has anything to report.

Also a big thank you for the support in the thread you have given to users.
Is it worth me testing the official Beta1 release?
Only if you want to validate that everything works. I will personally test the official version and see if it works as expected.

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by jeff.page.rides » Nov 05 2019 10:19pm

jeff.page.rides wrote:
Nov 04 2019 5:24pm
casainho wrote:
Nov 04 2019 8:54am
Waynemarlow wrote:
Nov 04 2019 8:16am
The motor changes that Buba integrated seem very good and reliable, has anybody suggested that we should move to V20 on all applications such as Marcoq's and Casainho's ?
Soon the 850C and SW102 display will work on V20. lowPerformer already did work for support V20 but I did not test yet, geeksville, the other developer, is away for some days and when he arrives, I think we will be able to work hard on it.

For myself, I will port the torque sensor full calibration for V20, so I can keep playing/develop for V21.

I hope to make a V21 quick after V20, mainly to support the new displays - the idea is that development need to continue but is not possible anymore with KT-LCD3 because it is already full of memory, also is much more limited on the information it shows to user so it limits the innovation.

As the configurations grows on the display, maybe we could have a software to change them on PC side (would change the firmware .bin file) -- this if some new developer will be available to develop and maintain. This would be an alternative, as all the configurations will always be available on the display.
Hey Buba and Casainho,
I'm very grateful for all the work you guys have done in version 20 it has been working well for me. I am excited about version 21 so that I can set the settings on the torque sensor. Because in version 20 I am still pulling backward on my cranks with a coaster brake version to trick torque sensor into thinking I'm putting more torque on the cranks than I am. I have been doing this ever since I installed my power assist with the stock firmware. It would be great to just put in the setting I like and not have to pull back on my cranks anymore to trick the torque sensor. This will also help those that don't have very strong legs or arms like me and use the standard motor. Because you can't pull back with the standard motor, to trick the torque sensor, With the stock firmware I had to pull back to trick the torque sensor or it was completely unusable. With version 20 pulling back makes a big difference, but the power assist will work without pulling back just not enough for me to enjoy riding. Thanks again for all the time that has been donated to this project, Jeff
I forgot to include that I'm pulling back on the cranks and holding them as I turn on the system. That's how I'm tricking the torque sensor into thinking I'm applying more torque to the cranks then I really am.

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by jeff.page.rides » Nov 05 2019 10:20pm

jeff.page.rides wrote:
Nov 04 2019 5:24pm
casainho wrote:
Nov 04 2019 8:54am
Waynemarlow wrote:
Nov 04 2019 8:16am
The motor changes that Buba integrated seem very good and reliable, has anybody suggested that we should move to V20 on all applications such as Marcoq's and Casainho's ?
Soon the 850C and SW102 display will work on V20. lowPerformer already did work for support V20 but I did not test yet, geeksville, the other developer, is away for some days and when he arrives, I think we will be able to work hard on it.

For myself, I will port the torque sensor full calibration for V20, so I can keep playing/develop for V21.

I hope to make a V21 quick after V20, mainly to support the new displays - the idea is that development need to continue but is not possible anymore with KT-LCD3 because it is already full of memory, also is much more limited on the information it shows to user so it limits the innovation.

As the configurations grows on the display, maybe we could have a software to change them on PC side (would change the firmware .bin file) -- this if some new developer will be available to develop and maintain. This would be an alternative, as all the configurations will always be available on the display.
Hey Buba and Casainho,
I'm very grateful for all the work you guys have done in version 20 it has been working well for me. I am excited about version 21 so that I can set the settings on the torque sensor. Because in version 20 I am still pulling backward on my cranks with a coaster brake version to trick torque sensor into thinking I'm putting more torque on the cranks than I am. I have been doing this ever since I installed my power assist with the stock firmware. It would be great to just put in the setting I like and not have to pull back on my cranks anymore to trick the torque sensor. This will also help those that don't have very strong legs or arms like me and use the standard motor. Because you can't pull back with the standard motor, to trick the torque sensor, With the stock firmware I had to pull back to trick the torque sensor or it was completely unusable. With version 20 pulling back makes a big difference, but the power assist will work without pulling back just not enough for me to enjoy riding. Thanks again for all the time that has been donated to this project, Jeff
I forgot to include that I'm pulling back on the cranks and holding them as I turn on the system. That's how I'm tricking the torque sensor into thinking I'm applying more torque to the cranks then I really am.

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by Waynemarlow » Nov 06 2019 3:34am

[quote=buba post_id=1508594 time=1572997720 user_id=60878
Did you have any problems with the 0.20.0 Beta 1 from the official project page?
[/quote]

Sorry I’ve only used the files from your Github.

The only things I have found is the problem with moving around the sub fields on the display, the delay between needing a key input is really short and for people like me with fat fingers and age on the wrong side, then getting the right speed of input is tough. I had offered an alternative scheme of a press on both the home and down key simultaneously to enter into that sequence rather than the home then up then long up. It would allow one to change fields whilst on the move as both the home and down key can be covered by your thumb.

Something no one else has reported is whilst in Emtb there is quite a bit more delay from the time stopping peddling to the engine shutting off than in say Power mode. My Bafang engine was very similar but one has to ask why the difference between Emtb and Power mode. It’s not unsafe just noticeable.

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by mctubster » Nov 06 2019 3:52am

Waynemarlow wrote:
Nov 06 2019 3:34am

Sorry I’ve only used the files from your Github.

The only things I have found is the problem with moving around the sub fields on the display, the delay between needing a key input is really short and for people like me with fat fingers and age on the wrong side, then getting the right speed of input is tough. I had offered an alternative scheme of a press on both the home and down key simultaneously to enter into that sequence rather than the home then up then long up. It would allow one to change fields whilst on the move as both the home and down key can be covered by your thumb
A counter point :) I don't struggle with the timing of short long click, but I do struggle with pressing the centre and top buttons simultaneously to restrict motor power. I have to use a finger and thumb.

Cheers

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by cnrd » Nov 06 2019 4:10am

I saw that a KT-LCD4 was released, looking exactly like the SW102, anyone know if it is actually the same?

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