Would it work with the LCD3 FW? As I want a smaller display that won't break as easy when I fall on my MTB.

Would it work with the LCD3 FW? As I want a smaller display that won't break as easy when I fall on my MTB.
Yes, use the SW102!!cnrd wrote: ↑Nov 06 2019 4:27amWould it work with the LCD3 FW? As I want a smaller display that won't break as easy when I fall on my MTB.![]()
Hello Jeff,jeff.page.rides wrote: ↑Nov 05 2019 10:20pmI forgot to include that I'm pulling back on the cranks and holding them as I turn on the system. That's how I'm tricking the torque sensor into thinking I'm applying more torque to the cranks then I really am.jeff.page.rides wrote: ↑Nov 04 2019 5:24pmHey Buba and Casainho,casainho wrote: ↑Nov 04 2019 8:54amSoon the 850C and SW102 display will work on V20. lowPerformer already did work for support V20 but I did not test yet, geeksville, the other developer, is away for some days and when he arrives, I think we will be able to work hard on it.Waynemarlow wrote: ↑Nov 04 2019 8:16amThe motor changes that Buba integrated seem very good and reliable, has anybody suggested that we should move to V20 on all applications such as Marcoq's and Casainho's ?
For myself, I will port the torque sensor full calibration for V20, so I can keep playing/develop for V21.
I hope to make a V21 quick after V20, mainly to support the new displays - the idea is that development need to continue but is not possible anymore with KT-LCD3 because it is already full of memory, also is much more limited on the information it shows to user so it limits the innovation.
As the configurations grows on the display, maybe we could have a software to change them on PC side (would change the firmware .bin file) -- this if some new developer will be available to develop and maintain. This would be an alternative, as all the configurations will always be available on the display.
I'm very grateful for all the work you guys have done in version 20 it has been working well for me. I am excited about version 21 so that I can set the settings on the torque sensor. Because in version 20 I am still pulling backward on my cranks with a coaster brake version to trick torque sensor into thinking I'm putting more torque on the cranks than I am. I have been doing this ever since I installed my power assist with the stock firmware. It would be great to just put in the setting I like and not have to pull back on my cranks anymore to trick the torque sensor. This will also help those that don't have very strong legs or arms like me and use the standard motor. Because you can't pull back with the standard motor, to trick the torque sensor, With the stock firmware I had to pull back to trick the torque sensor or it was completely unusable. With version 20 pulling back makes a big difference, but the power assist will work without pulling back just not enough for me to enjoy riding. Thanks again for all the time that has been donated to this project, Jeff
I do understand it can be tricky to use some button events. Would you mind explaining how you operate the buttons when changing between subfields?Waynemarlow wrote: ↑Nov 06 2019 3:34amThe only things I have found is the problem with moving around the sub fields on the display, the delay between needing a key input is really short and for people like me with fat fingers and age on the wrong side, then getting the right speed of input is tough. I had offered an alternative scheme of a press on both the home and down key simultaneously to enter into that sequence rather than the home then up then long up. It would allow one to change fields whilst on the move as both the home and down key can be covered by your thumb.
It should be faster than 0.19.0 but there might be differences between modes. It depends on the logic. If you want a really fast "motor-cutoff" you should not only stop the pedals but also rotate them slightly backwards. As soon the system notices backwards pedal rotation it will immediately stop the motor. But note that there is soft-slow-down implemented so the motor will not immediately stop.Waynemarlow wrote: ↑Nov 06 2019 3:34amSomething no one else has reported is whilst in Emtb there is quite a bit more delay from the time stopping peddling to the engine shutting off than in say Power mode. My Bafang engine was very similar but one has to ask why the difference between Emtb and Power mode. It’s not unsafe just noticeable.
Hello and thank you Zappan!zappan wrote: ↑Nov 06 2019 5:30amHi Buba and welcome back, I'm using it and I didn't have any wonderful work problems, I noticed though that the LCD3 actually measures the battery voltage a little higher than that measured by my WattzUp instrument, a problem that was also reported from another user here:
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=103087
Buda, thanks for the reply.If It's too much trouble to do on the LCD3 I can buy a new display, Handcycles with coaster brake motors don't use torque assist, cadence assist, walk assist, Cruise, City mode or a throttle and Street mode. If it's not too much trouble to remove all those and there could be room to put in the torque sensor settings that would be great, but if not will just upgrade all the current LCD3 on the units we've sold with the 850Cbuba wrote: ↑Nov 06 2019 5:39pmHello Jeff,jeff.page.rides wrote: ↑Nov 05 2019 10:20pmI forgot to include that I'm pulling back on the cranks and holding them as I turn on the system. That's how I'm tricking the torque sensor into thinking I'm applying more torque to the cranks then I really am.jeff.page.rides wrote: ↑Nov 04 2019 5:24pmHey Buba and Casainho,casainho wrote: ↑Nov 04 2019 8:54am
Soon the 850C and SW102 display will work on V20. lowPerformer already did work for support V20 but I did not test yet, geeksville, the other developer, is away for some days and when he arrives, I think we will be able to work hard on it.
For myself, I will port the torque sensor full calibration for V20, so I can keep playing/develop for V21.
I hope to make a V21 quick after V20, mainly to support the new displays - the idea is that development need to continue but is not possible anymore with KT-LCD3 because it is already full of memory, also is much more limited on the information it shows to user so it limits the innovation.
As the configurations grows on the display, maybe we could have a software to change them on PC side (would change the firmware .bin file) -- this if some new developer will be available to develop and maintain. This would be an alternative, as all the configurations will always be available on the display.
I'm very grateful for all the work you guys have done in version 20 it has been working well for me. I am excited about version 21 so that I can set the settings on the torque sensor. Because in version 20 I am still pulling backward on my cranks with a coaster brake version to trick torque sensor into thinking I'm putting more torque on the cranks than I am. I have been doing this ever since I installed my power assist with the stock firmware. It would be great to just put in the setting I like and not have to pull back on my cranks anymore to trick the torque sensor. This will also help those that don't have very strong legs or arms like me and use the standard motor. Because you can't pull back with the standard motor, to trick the torque sensor, With the stock firmware I had to pull back to trick the torque sensor or it was completely unusable. With version 20 pulling back makes a big difference, but the power assist will work without pulling back just not enough for me to enjoy riding. Thanks again for all the time that has been donated to this project, Jeff
Yes, I do remember! Did think about that one for a while. It is difficult to implement on the KT-LCD3 due to memory constraints. I have some ideas that would help but those will only be possible to implement on the new displays. Unless we remove functions on the KT-LCD3 to make some room.
Am really sorry you are not able to enjoy the TSDZ2 fullyBut do remember that this project is in constant development!
I would be more than happy to fork the project and make a special version. I could even implement some really nice features and characteristics with your help and recommendations. I bet there are several things you would like to include that are specific to handcycles. How about... ?jeff.page.rides wrote: ↑Nov 06 2019 6:28pmBuda, thanks for the reply.If It's too much trouble to do on the LCD3 I can buy a new display, Handcycles with coaster brake motors don't use torque assist, cadence assist, walk assist, Cruise, City mode or a throttle and Street mode. If it's not too much trouble to remove all those and there could be room to put in the torque sensor settings that would be great, but if not will just upgrade all the current LCD3 on the units we've sold with the 850Cbuba wrote: ↑Nov 06 2019 5:39pmHello Jeff,jeff.page.rides wrote: ↑Nov 05 2019 10:20pmI forgot to include that I'm pulling back on the cranks and holding them as I turn on the system. That's how I'm tricking the torque sensor into thinking I'm applying more torque to the cranks then I really am.jeff.page.rides wrote: ↑Nov 04 2019 5:24pm
Hey Buba and Casainho,
I'm very grateful for all the work you guys have done in version 20 it has been working well for me. I am excited about version 21 so that I can set the settings on the torque sensor. Because in version 20 I am still pulling backward on my cranks with a coaster brake version to trick torque sensor into thinking I'm putting more torque on the cranks than I am. I have been doing this ever since I installed my power assist with the stock firmware. It would be great to just put in the setting I like and not have to pull back on my cranks anymore to trick the torque sensor. This will also help those that don't have very strong legs or arms like me and use the standard motor. Because you can't pull back with the standard motor, to trick the torque sensor, With the stock firmware I had to pull back to trick the torque sensor or it was completely unusable. With version 20 pulling back makes a big difference, but the power assist will work without pulling back just not enough for me to enjoy riding. Thanks again for all the time that has been donated to this project, Jeff
Yes, I do remember! Did think about that one for a while. It is difficult to implement on the KT-LCD3 due to memory constraints. I have some ideas that would help but those will only be possible to implement on the new displays. Unless we remove functions on the KT-LCD3 to make some room.
Am really sorry you are not able to enjoy the TSDZ2 fullyBut do remember that this project is in constant development!
Thanks, Jeff
Buda, thank you very much for such a genuine offer to help! Cycling season is winding down but I still ride through the winter but most don't. If we slowly work on this over the winter and have a good usable version by spring that would be great. There are quite a few things that we could do that pertain to hand cycles. Your Suggestions would all be valid for a hand cycle. One thing I'm not sure if you realize but when you're riding a hand cycle both pedals are in the same position not opposites like a bicycle so you really do have a strong bicep pull and a weaker tricep push with both arms going the same direction at the same time. That's one of the reasons that tricking the torque sensor help so much is because you have such a lopsided torque circle. I'd hate to put so much effort into something that only works on the LCD3. We need to look at now and the future so whatever we do moves forward with the rest of the development. Again thank you for all your efforts and your desire to continue. If we can have something to allow us to adjust the torque sensor by spring that would be awesome along with whatever else helps improve the whole experience.buba wrote: ↑Nov 06 2019 6:54pmI would be more than happy to fork the project and make a special version. I could even implement some really nice features and characteristics with your help and recommendations. I bet there are several things you would like to include that are specific to handcycles. How about... ?jeff.page.rides wrote: ↑Nov 06 2019 6:28pmBuda, thanks for the reply.If It's too much trouble to do on the LCD3 I can buy a new display, Handcycles with coaster brake motors don't use torque assist, cadence assist, walk assist, Cruise, City mode or a throttle and Street mode. If it's not too much trouble to remove all those and there could be room to put in the torque sensor settings that would be great, but if not will just upgrade all the current LCD3 on the units we've sold with the 850Cbuba wrote: ↑Nov 06 2019 5:39pmHello Jeff,jeff.page.rides wrote: ↑Nov 05 2019 10:20pm
I forgot to include that I'm pulling back on the cranks and holding them as I turn on the system. That's how I'm tricking the torque sensor into thinking I'm applying more torque to the cranks then I really am.
Yes, I do remember! Did think about that one for a while. It is difficult to implement on the KT-LCD3 due to memory constraints. I have some ideas that would help but those will only be possible to implement on the new displays. Unless we remove functions on the KT-LCD3 to make some room.
Am really sorry you are not able to enjoy the TSDZ2 fullyBut do remember that this project is in constant development!
Thanks, Jeff
- Ultra sensitivity and really fast response times for the coaster brake
- Torque filtering for uneven power delivery between right and left arms
- Communication with other hardware that can enhance the experience
- Remove unnecessary things to make room for other more appropriate features and functions
We can do a lot of things and I think many riders will benefit from this. But it would have to diverge from the main project because it will be adapted to other needs. Again, I would happily do this but am extremely time constrained now. I used a lot of vacation days for the 0.20.0 and it is difficult to find that kind of time now. In the meantime there will be new displays coming and those will have some more configuration options that will hopefully enhance the experience for all users. Later on we can create some exciting new things!
For your description, the issue is lack of sensitivity on your torque sensor, it is mainly an hardware issue. You should start learning and testing your torque sensor -- go to the wiki to see this to improve the hardware:jeff.page.rides wrote: ↑Nov 07 2019 12:09amIf we can have something to allow us to adjust the torque sensor by spring that would be awesome along with whatever else helps improve the whole experience.
Do we still need to cut the SW102 or did you guys get the firmware update to work without pulling it apart?casainho wrote: ↑Nov 06 2019 5:46amYes, use the SW102!!cnrd wrote: ↑Nov 06 2019 4:27amWould it work with the LCD3 FW? As I want a smaller display that won't break as easy when I fall on my MTB.![]()
Follow the wiki instructions.
Just to clarify, I've ridden 4 different handcycles all with the TSDZ2 coaster brake Motors. And everyone was identical, with the stock firmware they are useless for a handcycle in less you pull back on the cranks and hold it while you're turning it on. They are usable with version 20 beta 1 but it's a lot of work and too hard for me to keep the power assist helping.casainho wrote: ↑Nov 07 2019 12:22amFor your description, the issue is lack of sensitivity on your torque sensor, it is mainly an hardware issue. You should start learning and testing your torque sensor -- go to the wiki to see this to improve the hardware:jeff.page.rides wrote: ↑Nov 07 2019 12:09amIf we can have something to allow us to adjust the torque sensor by spring that would be awesome along with whatever else helps improve the whole experience.
https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... que-sensor
Then next step is to use the full calibration, that I am using on a V0.19 branch code, as experimental. This linearized the torque sensor output and I like a lot the result that I do no want to go back anymore.
I wrote instructions before on the thread how to use this branch and setup manually the full calibration.
Anyway, the plan is to bring the full calibration on the V0.21 for 850C and SW102 displays only.
It is very important that you learn and test more your torque sensor... Please measure both left and right ADC values with various weights and plot graphs to show us. On my torque sensor I can measure up to 110 kgs, my weight. I would like to know what are the max values you put with your arms.
I meant to take a photo before I put the motor in however the news is it can be done however I went very slowly and it took some time.danielson wrote: ↑Nov 07 2019 5:00amNot sure if this is the right place to ask but hopefully someone will point me in the right direction.
I've gone to fit a TSDZ2 to an early Cannondale Scalpel and the RHS chainstay is in line with the outside of the bottom bracket.
There is a ring on the rear of the case that protrudes about 1.5mm and it fouls on the chainstay and stops the motor moving all the way to the left, I was thinking of removing about a small portion of the ring but thought I should ask before I grind through the case into something vital. I have searched google and I think a stationery ring is housed in there - possible part of the speed or torque sensor.
The raised area between the white marks is what I would like to remove. I know I can add a washer and move to the right but would prefer to move the the left if possible.
TSDZ2 differentiates from the other DIY mid drive motors because of the torque sensor, yet, I took more than 1 year to realize that it is not so good as I expected -- random very different from bicycle to bicycle; measures up to only about the first 40 kgs; has different sensitivity on left and right pedals.jeff.page.rides wrote: ↑Nov 07 2019 6:30pmI really wish I could run all those tests but, without hands that work it's totally impossible. I do totally appreciate all the work that everyone has done to get to this point and all the work that needs to be done to continue to make this the best power assist option for hand cyclists and everyone else out there.
Yes, the hardware calibration of torque sensor is very delicate. I now know that the best we can get is calibration on the firmware, I wish I can find more time to implement it.
Update: Managed to actually "tare off" one of the leads! The Right One™!!!
So your torque sensor is failing. If I was you, I would enable the PAS mode only (it is a new feature of firmware v0.20.0) and ride with it, this way the torque sensor is ignored.mittkonto wrote: ↑Nov 08 2019 1:41pmUpdate: Managed to actually "tare off" one of the leads! The Right One™!!!![]()
![]()
Resoldering, was a.. doozy.
I could somehow though, lots of solder, not winning any neat solder of the year awards anytime soon. Digging in the silicone, as by a dried up well in the desert.
However, the spectrum now is in the range 50isch to 250isch.
Similar as with the temp it oscillates by 60 +/- 5. The temp oscillates around +-2.
casainho: Do you believe this range will suffice for the later firmware to adapt to?
Edit: I suppose in the meantime I could alter some settings? Is this possible in the display, senitivity?
In any case, will fiddle with it for a bit more. I don't know, feeling a bit sceptical here, moving the sensor changes the displayed value, however when trying to get it change by flexing the shaft, not at all...
So, using PAS mode it would be as if I put in a lot of wattage or how does that work?casainho wrote: ↑Nov 08 2019 2:23pmSo your torque sensor is failing. If I was you, I would enable the PAS mode only (it is a new feature of firmware v0.20.0) and ride with it, this way the torque sensor is ignored.mittkonto wrote: ↑Nov 08 2019 1:41pmUpdate: Managed to actually "tare off" one of the leads! The Right One™!!!![]()
![]()
Resoldering, was a.. doozy.
I could somehow though, lots of solder, not winning any neat solder of the year awards anytime soon. Digging in the silicone, as by a dried up well in the desert.
However, the spectrum now is in the range 50isch to 250isch.
Similar as with the temp it oscillates by 60 +/- 5. The temp oscillates around +-2.
casainho: Do you believe this range will suffice for the later firmware to adapt to?
Edit: I suppose in the meantime I could alter some settings? Is this possible in the display, senitivity?
In any case, will fiddle with it for a bit more. I don't know, feeling a bit sceptical here, moving the sensor changes the displayed value, however when trying to get it change by flexing the shaft, not at all...
I never used that mode, I don't know.
I can definitely buy a fish scale and have my kids help me use that, but there's no way we could take the motor apart and modify the torque sensor.casainho wrote: ↑Nov 07 2019 10:59pmTSDZ2 differentiates from the other DIY mid drive motors because of the torque sensor, yet, I took more than 1 year to realize that it is not so good as I expected -- random very different from bicycle to bicycle; measures up to only about the first 40 kgs; has different sensitivity on left and right pedals.jeff.page.rides wrote: ↑Nov 07 2019 6:30pmI really wish I could run all those tests but, without hands that work it's totally impossible. I do totally appreciate all the work that everyone has done to get to this point and all the work that needs to be done to continue to make this the best power assist option for hand cyclists and everyone else out there.
But this can be improved on the firmware side, but also means users need first to take measures of his specific torque sensor.
I really hope you can find help from someone. Don´t you have kids that can help you put weights on the pedals so you can see the torque sensor ADC values?