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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Posted: Aug 11 2019 10:28am
by buba
Alpha 5 is here and solves the problems on Alpha 4!

------------------------

Here is the wiki (work in progress):
https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... %7C-Manual

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Here is my Google Drive folder with the Alpha 5:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1CPGT- ... bYtY4_JH2R

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Here is my branch where you can see the source code and latest changes:
https://github.com/leon927/TSDZ2-Smart- ... ng-pwm-acc

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Here is my official to-do list (will be automatically updated from user feedback, suggestions, etc):
* Improve the filtering on the display even more
* Install the brake clutch on my TSDZ2 Coaster Brake version and validate proper operation

Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Posted: Aug 11 2019 11:05am
by buba
Just a couple of words why I take filtering seriously.

There is no filter that is perfect. You either get

1. Good filtering but far from the true value and slow to react when it should
2. Less filtering but closer to the true value and fast to react
3. Medium filtering but the filter still has attenuation as we are rounding down for every filter execution

There is usually no way around that. Instead you compromise until you think it is good enough. In earlier firmware versions we had good filtering. But we compromised slightly on the accuracy. One example is that we could have a cadence of 90 but it showed 80. It was the same for everything else that we filtered in one way or another. But it looked very nice.

So for the 0.20.0 some users have noticed the values jump around much more. This is because it helped me develop and see possible problems. But now that everything is getting close to a stable firmware we need a way to have a really good filter so users can get meaningful data.

And it is this I have tried to improve in 0.20.0 overall but especially in Alpha 4 but even more so in Alpha 5.

I have tried to use a filter that is very adjustable and where we can choose what compromises to take. But more importantly, we can adjust the effects of those compromises. But regardless of what parameters are set, it will always converge to the true value measured or calculated.

Alpha 5 is not something I consider finished in this regard. But it is a good foundation to work from. And the values you will see on the display will be accurate, and that is something I highly value. We just need to improve and tune it some more so it looks nice as well. This can be carried over to the new displays that have graphs. Because then we will value data even more!

Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Posted: Aug 11 2019 11:29am
by andrea_104kg
I tried the 20 alpha 4 version for a short time. As soon as it was loaded, neither the engine nor the walk assistant was going to work. After reviewing the settings 3 times, everything went well. Very strange. It seems to me to be slightly less powerful than version 19. Unfortunately the test was too short to be really significant. I noticed that now the power mode has an assistance threshold that improves driving at low speeds.
I don't like the emtb function, I don't seem to have control of the engine. I also don't understand why it has 8 levels and not 10 from me. I saw that alpha 5 has already been released, you are very fast! Thanks for the continuous improvements!

Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Posted: Aug 11 2019 11:35am
by casainho
andrea_104kg wrote:
Aug 11 2019 11:29am
I don't like the emtb function, I don't seem to have control of the engine.
I think you will then like next version with torque sensor full calibration that will be able to detect force on the pedals from 1kg up to 120 kgs, while now it can detect only about the first 30 or 40 kgs (where the first 10 kgs are your legs).

Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Posted: Aug 11 2019 3:09pm
by bwb
buba wrote:
Aug 11 2019 10:28am
Alpha 5 is here and solves the problems on Alpha 4!
Upgraded from A4 to A5 without any issues. Bike was directly OK.

walk assist: solved
slight motor power after throttle usage: also solved

Thx for all the work on such a short notice :bigthumb:

Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Posted: Aug 11 2019 3:40pm
by vadda
Same here
A5 Flashed
All work fine and display filtering now was near perfect.
Very smoot acceleration, a pleasure
:bigthumb:

Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Posted: Aug 11 2019 4:22pm
by buba
andrea_104kg wrote:
Aug 11 2019 11:29am
I tried the 20 alpha 4 version for a short time. As soon as it was loaded, neither the engine nor the walk assistant was going to work. After reviewing the settings 3 times, everything went well. Very strange. It seems to me to be slightly less powerful than version 19. Unfortunately the test was too short to be really significant. I noticed that now the power mode has an assistance threshold that improves driving at low speeds.
I don't like the emtb function, I don't seem to have control of the engine. I also don't understand why it has 8 levels and not 10 from me. I saw that alpha 5 has already been released, you are very fast! Thanks for the continuous improvements!
Thank you for the continuous feedback and for sharing that you have noticed some of the improvements! Some of them were thanks to you!


andrea_104kg wrote:
Aug 11 2019 11:29am
It seems to me to be slightly less powerful than version 19.
That is due to the better filtering that actually shows the true wattage now. Previously it assisted with some power but showed far less on the display. Making it feel more powerful. Try increasing the assistance and let me know if you think it is better!


andrea_104kg wrote:
Aug 11 2019 11:29am
I don't like the emtb function, I don't seem to have control of the engine. I also don't understand why it has 8 levels and not 10 from me.
I am sad you feel eMTB is not good enough. Have you changed sensitivity levels? There should be 8 different sensitivity levels to choose from. I have updated the wiki that stated there should be 10.


andrea_104kg wrote:
Aug 11 2019 11:29am
I saw that alpha 5 has already been released, you are very fast! Thanks for the continuous improvements!
I think you will feel the Alpha 5 is much better overall :)

Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Posted: Aug 11 2019 4:25pm
by buba
bwb wrote:
Aug 11 2019 3:09pm
buba wrote:
Aug 11 2019 10:28am
Alpha 5 is here and solves the problems on Alpha 4!
Upgraded from A4 to A5 without any issues. Bike was directly OK.

walk assist: solved
slight motor power after throttle usage: also solved

Thx for all the work on such a short notice :bigthumb:
It is I that should thank you for the very good feedback that came very quickly! Helped me to get the Alpha 5 out faster while at the same time improving other things! Thank you, bwb!

Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Posted: Aug 11 2019 4:27pm
by buba
vadda wrote:
Aug 11 2019 3:40pm
Same here
A5 Flashed
All work fine and display filtering now was near perfect.
Very smoot acceleration, a pleasure
:bigthumb:
That feedback means a lot, Vadda! It will only get better! :bigthumb:

Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Posted: Aug 12 2019 3:01am
by mctubster
casainho wrote:
Aug 11 2019 11:35am
andrea_104kg wrote:
Aug 11 2019 11:29am
I don't like the emtb function, I don't seem to have control of the engine.
I think you will then like next version with torque sensor full calibration that will be able to detect force on the pedals from 1kg up to 120 kgs, while now it can detect only about the first 30 or 40 kgs (where the first 10 kgs are your legs).
Buba and Casainho - a fantastic job. Personally I really like the emtb mode, it gives me responsive power to accelerate on demand but then makes me work to maintain the speed. I can't wait to get better calibration of the torque sensor ... its limited range does make power/torque modes feel a bit like a pedelec at higher assist.

I was unable to get cadence mode working (motor not engaging alpha2) but I just flashed alpha5 so will try it again in the morning. Love the lights remembering last state too.

Cheers

Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Posted: Aug 12 2019 3:58am
by Rafe
No serious problems to report at all with A5 Buba,

Throttle is job done. :D

Seems safe now with no tendency to leap forward when stationary and foot resting on the pedal which is very important,
I like the speed of the digital read outs I think you have got it just about right.

My favourite mode for around town and on trails is fast becoming the new eMTB mode. I have had to set it to the lowest sensitivity of one and I would like to reduce that a bit as sometimes it's important to be able to go slowly and not surge forward too quickly. An option of two sensitivities ideally on the fly (eMTB1 and eMTB2) would be ideal for me.

I did amuse myself by going into the setup mode and analysing weight on the pedals as I was riding along on different terrains and gears, any chance of adding that to a main display temperature field option in Main screen setup 8.10 ?


Thank you.

Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Posted: Aug 12 2019 6:19am
by andrea_104kg
I upgraded to the alpha 5 version without any problems. I noticed a better watt filter. I tried only the power mode version, all perfect!
I reserve the right to make further comments when the room temperature drops a little, now we are close to 40 ° and riding a bicycle is a real pain.
Thank you so much for the hard work!

Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Posted: Aug 12 2019 9:50am
by andrea_104kg
I noticed that the voltmeter in the 20 version marks 0.5 volts less. Is it a problem with my battery or has anything changed compared to previous versions?

Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Posted: Aug 12 2019 11:12am
by casainho
Rafe wrote:
Aug 12 2019 3:58am
I did amuse myself by going into the setup mode and analysing weight on the pedals as I was riding along on different terrains and gears, any chance of adding that to a main display temperature field option in Main screen setup 8.10 ?
On my branch I have the pedals kgs value being show on the configurations tecnhical information menu. I use that value to validate if the torque sensor is full calibrated and I also used to look at that values to understand when I put more or less weight on pedals on different terrains I ride.

I think that probably the information you want is the pedal human power, as naturally, once the cadence increases the weight/force on pedals reduce, to maintain the same human power -- I usually like like to do from 100 to 150 watts.

This variable weight on pedals can be shown as a graph, we you would be able to evaluate the change over time...

Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Posted: Aug 13 2019 2:32am
by dameri
I tried 0.20.0 Alpha5 and it didn't work for me. Power assist and torque assist felt like I was driving in a toffee. eMTB mode felt like there was no assist at all. I tried level five and eight. Once, the bike attacked when I set level nine. When I lowered level of assistance, driving was again like in the toffee. There is assist but there is not. I installed the version 0.19 and the good old assist was back.

Is it possible add the same assist environment to the program as in version 0.19?

Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Posted: Aug 13 2019 3:45am
by casainho
dameri wrote:
Aug 13 2019 2:32am
I tried 0.20.0 Alpha5 and it didn't work for me. Power assist and torque assist felt like I was driving in a toffee. eMTB mode felt like there was no assist at all. I tried level five and eight. Once, the bike attacked when I set level nine. When I lowered level of assistance, driving was again like in the toffee. There is assist but there is not. I installed the version 0.19 and the good old assist was back.

Is it possible add the same assist environment to the program as in version 0.19?
Do you wanna try a version of V0.19.0 with torque sensor full calibration?

Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Posted: Aug 13 2019 4:25am
by perryscope
Upgraded from Alpha 3 directly to Alpha 5.

I have enabled and calibrated the advanced cadence sensor mode.

Cadence issue
Perfect again. Assistance well above 110rpm so plenty for me!

Power Assist
Power delivery seams smoother but overall assistance and therefore motor power is slightly higher, I had to reduce multipliers by about 0.2 each to get it to feel similar to 0.19.0 assistance levels.
This now feels similar at lower general human power, but I feel that if i push hard in lower assistance levels I can now get more assistance than I used to. Basically if feels like the range of the torque sensor is higher and therefore there is more assistance available if needed.

Not a bad thing but i have to say i find i am not really needing to change assistance level as much now. and tend to ride in level 3 out of 9 most of the time.

In some ways I prefer that and would consider dropping to 5 levels of assistance as its nice not to have to keep changing assistance level as much.

EMTB mode

Wow this really does work well now! Actually kind of loving this mode for general riding, It really feels sensitive to the torque applied and you can ride it at lower levels of motor power easily it just tends to hunt a little due to it being so sensitive so for road riding commuting, power assist mode for me is smoother overall. but for changing terrain and surface quality its a real joy to have immediate power on tap just by pushing hard. Awesome job!

Only thing I would say is that you have to go through many assist levels to enable it. I tend to ride in assist 3 so 7 presses of the up button is needed to enable EMTB mode, then to disable and return to assist level 3 again is 7 mode presses, can be a bit of a pain. Another reason why I am considering dropping to 5 levels of assist.

Might be worth considering a quicker way to enable this mode? Power and down together to jump direct to EMTB and again to return to previous level of assistance? I appreciate we are very limited to options here and down want to over complicate things.

Cadence Mode
I have only done a quick test of this mode and to be honest it feels very similar to a hub motor with pedal assist sensor. Yes its very different when your used to torque sensing, but for those with the need for a smoother less sensitive assistance its great. I will have more feedback on this mode once my rider with special needs has had a test ride in the next few weeks.

Filtering of display power reading

Yes definitely much less jumping around. I think the peeks are still higher that 0.19.0 but I am guessing more accurate, so its just a case of getting used to it I think.

Light modes
I have done some basic testing of these modes and here is a little video showing them working...



Each mode works as expected, and I can understand why this is low priority but I would say a missing mode for me is.

(7) lights FLASHING when enabled, but ON when braking regardless if lights are enabled

That's what I would use generally.

I understand there are capacitors on the light circuit so faster flashing would be difficult to achieve?, which again would be preferable as I feel its more visible but its nick picking and very low priority :)

Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Posted: Aug 13 2019 4:55am
by casainho
Today I was testing the firmware and update process using Bluetooth of SW102. This is the current boot screen:

Image

On mobile, using the NRF Connect I could see listed the OS-EBike device:

Image

And the Manufacturer Name String:

Image


Then I went to start the Bluetooth bootloader so I could update by wireless the firmware. The device name was changed to SW102_DFU:

Image


Then I clicked on DFU and was asked to select the ZIP file, that I did download from our SW102 repository, on the releases: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... h/releases

Image


The updated went perfectly as expected:

Image

Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Posted: Aug 13 2019 5:41am
by perryscope
casainho wrote:
Aug 13 2019 4:55am
Today I was testing the firmware and update process using Bluetooth of SW102. This is the current boot screen:

Image

On mobile, using the NRF Connect I could see listed the OS-EBike device:

Image

And the Manufacturer Name String:

Image


Then I went to start the Bluetooth bootloader so I could update by wireless the firmware. The device name was changed to SW102_DFU:

Image


Then I clicked on DFU and was asked to select the ZIP file, that I did download from our SW102 repository, on the releases: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... h/releases

Image


The updated went perfectly as expected:

Image
That Looks great casainho, I have an opened SW102 to start testing with. It actually opened up very easily with no real damage following the instructions on the sw102 wiki https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... -LCD-SW102 . I have not yet tried to flash the Alpha, as I could not find any instructions on how to flash the firmware only how to build the source code on Linux. Are there any guides on this process yet? I appreciate its very early days, but I am happy to help test it if its of help.

Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Posted: Aug 13 2019 6:43am
by dameri
casainho wrote:
Aug 13 2019 3:45am
dameri wrote:
Aug 13 2019 2:32am
I tried 0.20.0 Alpha5 and it didn't work for me. Power assist and torque assist felt like I was driving in a toffee. eMTB mode felt like there was no assist at all. I tried level five and eight. Once, the bike attacked when I set level nine. When I lowered level of assistance, driving was again like in the toffee. There is assist but there is not. I installed the version 0.19 and the good old assist was back.

Is it possible add the same assist environment to the program as in version 0.19?
Do you wanna try a version of V0.19.0 with torque sensor full calibration?
Yes I have planned to do that also. I have looked instructions what you have been written. I have had some bad luck with new bike and TSDZ2 also KTLCD3 went broken (I have spare but not wired for fast update). Also little bit busy now. I will ride with v 0.19.0. It's working well. Also I'm waiting for 850C display to come, I think that is what I will use in future.

Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Posted: Aug 13 2019 6:54am
by casainho
perryscope wrote:
Aug 13 2019 5:41am
That Looks great casainho, I have an opened SW102 to start testing with. It actually opened up very easily with no real damage following the instructions on the sw102 wiki https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... -LCD-SW102 . I have not yet tried to flash the Alpha, as I could not find any instructions on how to flash the firmware only how to build the source code on Linux. Are there any guides on this process yet? I appreciate its very early days, but I am happy to help test it if its of help.
Here are the instructions, written by the other developer: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... re-install

Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Posted: Aug 13 2019 7:12am
by Peetsyo
Hi,

I have VLCD6 and installed marcoq version of opensource firmware.
I noticed that throttle does not work with marcoq's version , is it just me , or it is a known bug ?

Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Posted: Aug 13 2019 8:16am
by buba
mctubster wrote:
Aug 12 2019 3:01am
casainho wrote:
Aug 11 2019 11:35am
andrea_104kg wrote:
Aug 11 2019 11:29am
I don't like the emtb function, I don't seem to have control of the engine.
I think you will then like next version with torque sensor full calibration that will be able to detect force on the pedals from 1kg up to 120 kgs, while now it can detect only about the first 30 or 40 kgs (where the first 10 kgs are your legs).
Buba and Casainho - a fantastic job. Personally I really like the emtb mode, it gives me responsive power to accelerate on demand but then makes me work to maintain the speed. I can't wait to get better calibration of the torque sensor ... its limited range does make power/torque modes feel a bit like a pedelec at higher assist.

I was unable to get cadence mode working (motor not engaging alpha2) but I just flashed alpha5 so will try it again in the morning. Love the lights remembering last state too.

Cheers
Thank you for the feedback! I hope you like the Alpha 5 and that everything works even better! :bigthumb:

Cheers!


Rafe wrote:
Aug 12 2019 3:58am
No serious problems to report at all with A5 Buba,

Throttle is job done. :D

Seems safe now with no tendency to leap forward when stationary and foot resting on the pedal which is very important,
I like the speed of the digital read outs I think you have got it just about right.
That is splendid! :D I appreciate that feedback and respect it a lot!


Rafe wrote:
Aug 12 2019 3:58am
My favourite mode for around town and on trails is fast becoming the new eMTB mode. I have had to set it to the lowest sensitivity of one and I would like to reduce that a bit as sometimes it's important to be able to go slowly and not surge forward too quickly. An option of two sensitivities ideally on the fly (eMTB1 and eMTB2) would be ideal for me.

I did amuse myself by going into the setup mode and analysing weight on the pedals as I was riding along on different terrains and gears, any chance of adding that to a main display temperature field option in Main screen setup 8.10 ?


Thank you.
Very excited to hear that and good to know what sensitivity level you are using! But also what you would prefer. I think it would be possible to improve the formula so eMTB is operating better and can fit your needs with only one assist mode. It should be great in any sensitivity level, that is the goal. Will consider everything you have said and think about it!

As for the weight on the pedals measurement. It could be added but I think what would be best is to remove the pedal torque value displayed together with cadence and human power and replace it with the weight on pedals. Would that be okay with everyone? That would maybe be more natural. And then we can take it from there. Great feedback!

Thank you, Rafe!

Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Posted: Aug 13 2019 8:20am
by buba
andrea_104kg wrote:
Aug 12 2019 6:19am
I upgraded to the alpha 5 version without any problems. I noticed a better watt filter. I tried only the power mode version, all perfect!
I reserve the right to make further comments when the room temperature drops a little, now we are close to 40 ° and riding a bicycle is a real pain.
Thank you so much for the hard work!
Andrea_104kg, thank you for the feedback! And I hope the temperature cools down so you can again enjoy the bike without :flame:


andrea_104kg wrote:
Aug 12 2019 9:50am
I noticed that the voltmeter in the 20 version marks 0.5 volts less. Is it a problem with my battery or has anything changed compared to previous versions?
Should be more accurate now if anything! Let me know if there are any problems!

Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Posted: Aug 13 2019 8:30am
by buba
dameri wrote:
Aug 13 2019 2:32am
I tried 0.20.0 Alpha5 and it didn't work for me. Power assist and torque assist felt like I was driving in a toffee. eMTB mode felt like there was no assist at all. I tried level five and eight. Once, the bike attacked when I set level nine. When I lowered level of assistance, driving was again like in the toffee. There is assist but there is not. I installed the version 0.19 and the good old assist was back.

Is it possible add the same assist environment to the program as in version 0.19?
I think there might be some problem as it is the same assist environment as in the 0.19.0. But only more accurate power delivery. You just need to configure the values after your preference.

I am truly sorry you feel it was that bad... I understand that the setup you have in the 0.19.0 is perfect for your needs. And to setup the 0.20.0 would be time consuming. But once you do that you are all set.

I do not want to ask anything of you so instead I am offering to personally provide any advice or assistance for setting up the 0.20.0, if you decide to try the 0.20.0 again.

However you decide to do in the future I still appreciate the feedback you have provided, Dameri.