TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

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jbalat   10 kW

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by jbalat » Sep 20 2019 9:44pm

buba wrote:
Sep 19 2019 6:12am
jbalat wrote:
Sep 18 2019 6:58pm
Guys really getting excited about version 20, stil...
Thanks
JB
Would love for you to test the 0.20.0 and give some feedback! But I understand you are waiting for the stable release. Everything in the 0.20.0 should be really tight and well controlled without any bugs.

I have looked at the FOC and there are several ways to improve the efficiency and torque. This would result in a cooler motor with less heating but with the same or even more torque. This can be done just by optimizing the existing code and functions. Adding field weakening will increase the cadence at the cost of efficiency but this can be acceptable in many use cases.

I see these changes as one major upgrade in the future! But to do this properly we need some serious instruments to really accurately measure and validate the changes and values. You have a suspicion that the static value we use in the experimental mode is not the most optimal and this is most likely true.

If I were to do some testing I would remove the motor from the TSDZ2 enclosure and install it in a motor torque dyno. Would make some extensive testing in the lab and then adapt the firmware for maximum efficiency = maximum torque at any given load and speed.

I think one user reported that we are around 60-70 % efficiency. In the best case scenario we would maybe be able to get to 80-90 %. This would mean that the actual torque increase would be around 50 % from the current 0.20.0 Beta 1! And we would have far less heat developing in the motor!

Sadly, we would have even more stress on the system (bye bye blue gear!) but that is another problem :wink:
Buba glad to see we are thinking along the same lines, Instead of pulling the motor out I was thinking You could make a special version of the firmware that you could adjust throttle and advance angle by using up and down arrows and then mount the bike on a bike exercise machine with adjustable load.. then display all the stats on the screen which you could copy down and graph...
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xyrus   10 µW

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by xyrus » Sep 21 2019 1:41am

casainho wrote:
Sep 20 2019 6:46pm
xyrus wrote:
Sep 20 2019 5:23pm
I found this drive on aliexpress from the seller EUNORAU which seems to be a respectable one. They offer a TSDZ2 with a 850C display and multicable for brakes.

https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/32821670861.html

Would this work? Finding the pinout one my own and contributing back to community would not be problem. Just have to be sure these are the right parts, as I cant find another seller that sells this package on aliexpress.

It's not even that much cheaper but I do like the idea of skipping the cable splicing part.
Should work.
Thanks! I guess I will try , will report back when I have thing working (or not :lol: )

bwb   1 mW

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by bwb » Sep 21 2019 2:58am

casainho wrote:
Sep 20 2019 2:00pm
I did the release of v0.20.0-beta.1, get it here: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... 0.0-beta.1

Unfortunately I am not able to test it because I do not have the KT-LCD3 anymore, and, just yesterday at night when I was going for a group ride, my TSDZ2 did fail because the torque sensor started to work intermittently... I wish I was running the v0.20.0-beta.1 and so I would have change from power mode to PAS mode, as PAS was working correctly. I had to go back home and not very happy....

My focus is the new displays and there are now 4 developers working on them, and on last days a critical issue of "full white screen" was solved on 850C - because seems there are different LCDs used on the 850C display.

We expect soon to support the v0.20.0-beta.1.

Hi casainho,
I just upgraded from 0.20.0-alpha5 to 0.20.0-beta.1 from where you mentioned. The TSDZ-v0.20.0-beta.1.hex file went smooth.
The display KT.LCD3-v0.20.0-beta.1.hex file gave me out of range errors, but apparently seems to ignored. I was afraid to brick the display, so then I used buba's .ihx file. The combination of the 2 was a working bike, with indeed a better filtering than the early alpha's, however that was not issue for me.
Image
I am looking forward to try the 850C on 0.20.0.
Attachments
20b1.PNG
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bwb   1 mW

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by bwb » Sep 21 2019 3:09am

xyrus wrote:
Sep 21 2019 1:41am
casainho wrote:
Sep 20 2019 6:46pm
xyrus wrote:
Sep 20 2019 5:23pm
I found this drive on aliexpress from the seller EUNORAU which seems to be a respectable one. They offer a TSDZ2 with a 850C display and multicable for brakes.

https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/32821670861.html

Would this work? Finding the pinout one my own and contributing back to community would not be problem. Just have to be sure these are the right parts, as I cant find another seller that sells this package on aliexpress.

It's not even that much cheaper but I do like the idea of skipping the cable splicing part.
Should work.
Thanks! I guess I will try , will report back when I have thing working (or not :lol: )
I bought 9 months back from them a nearly identical kit (with the extra light cable) and used it with stock fw. The display was sufficient readable to me. With OSF, the KT-LCD was used which I also like. I opened a while back the 850C that came with the kit and it had already the good controller in it. I await the 850C release for 0.20.0 to give it a try. And it seems that now it won't be necessary anymore to open it up.

h27   10 mW

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by h27 » Sep 21 2019 5:46am

Rydon wrote:
Sep 20 2019 7:10pm
h27 wrote:
Sep 16 2019 5:33pm
Help needed: I have installed the OpenSource firmware without problems on my TSDZ2 (0.19.0). But I didn‘t succeed to install the firmware on the 850C using the USB to UART cable method (anybody successful yet?) ...
Any ideas?
I have built a number of these 850c bootloaders over the last few years. Very easy DIY project. The trick is that you must use a USB/TTL adapter with a CP2102 chipset in it. This is required by the APT software which uses a CP210 VCP driver. The easiest kit is to just hook up a 24v dc wall wart with the ground wire going to the black display wire and ground on the UART. +24 red wire on the wall wart goes to the brown p+ display wire. TX and RX on the display go to the corresponding connections on the UART. That's it. The APT software will find it (if you have the driver installed) and the 850c will flash.

DIY bootloader.jpg
Thank you, Rydon!
Anybody able to put these instructions in the wiki? It would be very helpful for newbies trying to install the open firmware on the 850C to have these explanations for the DIY bootloader.

andrea_104kg   100 W

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by andrea_104kg » Sep 21 2019 4:22pm

I just want to confirm, after a few days of use that the torque increase of version 20 beta1 is remarkable. Now the tsdz2 is back comparable with the turbo levo, slightly less but very little. with the 20 alpha version I thought I had burned the engine and was about to order a new one ... instead as if by magic the power is back. :D :D The only doubt is how much the poor motor will resist at 800w peaks ... and climb over 20% every day :( :(

elfnino   100 mW

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by elfnino » Sep 22 2019 12:30am

h27 wrote:
Sep 21 2019 5:46am
Rydon wrote:
Sep 20 2019 7:10pm
h27 wrote:
Sep 16 2019 5:33pm
Help needed: I have installed the OpenSource firmware without problems on my TSDZ2 (0.19.0). But I didn‘t succeed to install the firmware on the 850C using the USB to UART cable method (anybody successful yet?) ...
Any ideas?
I have built a number of these 850c bootloaders over the last few years. Very easy DIY project. The trick is that you must use a USB/TTL adapter with a CP2102 chipset in it. This is required by the APT software which uses a CP210 VCP driver. The easiest kit is to just hook up a 24v dc wall wart with the ground wire going to the black display wire and ground on the UART. +24 red wire on the wall wart goes to the brown p+ display wire. TX and RX on the display go to the corresponding connections on the UART. That's it. The APT software will find it (if you have the driver installed) and the 850c will flash.

DIY bootloader.jpg
Thank you, Rydon!
Anybody able to put these instructions in the wiki? It would be very helpful for newbies trying to install the open firmware on the 850C to have these explanations for the DIY bootloader.
let me share the diagram the colors should match any bafang display cable.
And few more hints I had to remove the AC power supply from the laptop and had to use only DC supply (ebike battery) to power the 850C, otherwise the flashing was interrupted. Not clear why obviously Rydon made it with ACtoDC power supply but he used little different USBtoTTL than I used.
Attachments
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e3s   10 W

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by e3s » Sep 22 2019 6:01am

Let me suggest to buy a dc dc boost, it's cheaper

AZUR   10 W

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by AZUR » Sep 22 2019 1:44pm

First of all I would like to thank you all for what you have done.

I'm going to do a second ebike with TSDZ2 and OSF.

I will (would like to) make a 1P15S battery with 21700 LG M50T cells that have about 5000mA capacity. These cells hold a continuous current of about 8A.
These cells also have about 1000 life cycles while the 18650 have 800 cycles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnB3vBUJ9z0

Each 1P15S battery will weigh about 1100g and will have a power of about 250Wh and over 450w of instant power.

My idea is to make several 1P15S batteries to use in parallel, depending on the power capacity I will spend.

Casainho has already tested the controller with a 62V battery and on the other hand the controller capacitors indicate 63V of nominal voltage.

see Casainho post at viewtopic.php?t=94220&start=75

It is natural for capacitors to have a tolerance of at least 5% (or even 10%) and therefore must tolerate more than 66V.

Will it be possible to make a firmware version for 15S and 63V?

I do not need 63V. I get the BMS to limit me to 62.5V (4.15X15 = 62.25V).

Thanks

casainho   1.21 GW

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by casainho » Sep 22 2019 1:52pm

AZUR wrote:
Sep 22 2019 1:44pm
Will it be possible to make a firmware version for 15S and 63V?

I do not need 63V. I get the BMS to limit me to 62.5V (4.15X15 = 62.25V).
Where do you find the limit?? I think maybe it is only on the LCD that don't let you choose more than 13 cells. If so, it is a very quick and easy change on firmware. Also you can just ignore that and configure as 13S as it will work if you are using a BMS to protect the under voltage limit.

I think there are many looking to know if 15S do work at 4.2V each. Maybe you will be first one testing it :-)

I also have in stock a few different battery packs that I use if I need to go further. I like your idea.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

AZUR   10 W

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by AZUR » Sep 22 2019 2:31pm

casainho wrote:
Sep 22 2019 1:52pm
AZUR wrote:
Sep 22 2019 1:44pm
Will it be possible to make a firmware version for 15S and 63V?

I do not need 63V. I get the BMS to limit me to 62.5V (4.15X15 = 62.25V).
Where do you find the limit?? I think maybe it is only on the LCD that don't let you choose more than 13 cells. If so, it is a very quick and easy change on firmware. Also you can just ignore that and configure as 13S as it will work if you are using a BMS to protect the under voltage limit.

I think there are many looking to know if 15S do work at 4.2V each. Maybe you will be first one testing it :-)

I also have in stock a few different battery packs that I use if I need to go further. I like your idea.
Thanks Casainho,

I´m starting this new ebike project.

In maybe one month we have the test results. I will try 1P15S 63V.

I´m also curious about 21700 cells. This cells are now used in Tesla cars replacing 16850.

If I burn the controller I buy a new one !!

maximusdm   10 W

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by maximusdm » Sep 23 2019 7:51am

I did in last weekend a MTB track with 2000+m altitude level and 56km. I used 620 wh. Ride done with 0.20 beta1.

On flat road and medium ascend, power mode works perfect. Good power and better torque.

On difficult climb, Emtb mode is king! It has a lot of power and the motor reacts instantly exactly when you need it. The motor control is much accurate at lower speed than power mode and the power used is less for same effect.
There is no need for boost. The power comes exactly when needed and exactly as much is needed!

I have found no problems but I propose an improvement. On road I had to constantly stop and adjust the sensitivity according to the road. 4-5-6.
Since Emtb mode is better than torque mode and has no down side, I propose to make only one mode that has the emtb power delivery function and the assistance levels configured as sensitivities 1-20.

This release is solid gold! Thank you!

bemused   1 µW

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by bemused » Sep 23 2019 6:31pm

It does seem that different users have their own ideas about what the 'perfect' mode is -- and that also depends on exactly what situation they are dealing with at the time. I really like the idea of keeping lots of different modes so that each person can find the mode that suits him and his current riding condition. Procrustean beds went out of fashion a long time ago....

andrea_104kg   100 W

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by andrea_104kg » Sep 24 2019 6:06am

I would like to propose a simple survey:
1- what kind of bicycle do you use?
2- what is your engine? what are the gear ratios?
3- in which environment do you live? (city, countryside, plain, hill, mountain)
4- describe the usual use of the bicycle.
5- which of the 3 software modes do you prefer?
6- what do you think of the e-mtb mode?
7- suggestions and more

without such data, in my opinion it is difficult to understand the satisfaction of the software and the real needs of users.

start with my data:

1- what kind of bicycle do you use?
I have two mountain bikes with the tsdz2

2- what is your engine? what are the gear ratios?
I have a 36v and a 48v 750w
I mainly use the 48v.
crown 34 front teeth and rear cassette 13-40.

3- in which environment do you live? (city, countryside, plain, hill, mountain)

I live in the hills, in a rural environment
Only ascents and descents, no plain.

4- describe the usual use of the bicycle.
I pedal especially for unpaved roads and dirt roads, with very hard climbs.

5- which of the 3 software modes do you prefer?
Power mode

6- what do you think of the e-mtb mode?
I don't like or use it.
7- suggestions and more
better curve of power

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stancecoke   100 kW

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by stancecoke » Sep 24 2019 8:01am

you can build your own survey quite easily, everybody can take part here, e.g:

https://freeonlinesurveys.com/s/SAu51Muj

you can see the results here:

https://freeonlinesurveys.com/r/mxvCSXKR

regards
stancecoke

OttawaEbiker   10 µW

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by OttawaEbiker » Sep 26 2019 8:00am

Big thanks to all involved for programming and testing...I've just started putting together my TSDZ2/KT-LCD3 combo and can offer the following advice for a newbie:

- KT-LCD3 flash.... the 0.20 hex file on the official site does not seem to work....spent several hours recabling my ST-Link, nothing worked, always came back with a blank screen. Finally found a comment in this thread about buba's .ihx file (on his google drive) and used that....bingo. The previous versions of hex files worked, but not 0.20.

- TSDZ2 flash....there's a you tube video showing how to put really small heat shrink tubes on the wire ends to make the connection. Worked like a charm.

The following products (Amazon Canada) were very helpful:

Various electronic/wiring stuff
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B07D72XCJW/ref ... JDbVPRHMX3
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B01EE4WAC8/ref ... JDb8Z20S2C
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B074LYL5N7/ref ... JDbZT8J1G6
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B01LZF1ZSZ/ref ... JDb6YJJ9BC

Heat pads and tape for internal heat transfer (there's another thread about this):
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B07BHJQC6Z/ref ... JDbS34D2TE
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B00UYTU6Z6/ref ... JDbXFMBA15

hope that can help!

Thanks

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by pikp0ka » Sep 26 2019 9:03am

Hi guys!

I ve been using the TSDZ2 motor for one month now and I am very impressed by the work you have done. I have the 0.19 version installed.

There is just one small issue I havent noticed when using the original FW. When I am shifting the gears down and still turning the pedals the motor starts to rotate. The human power on the display is usually 10 W, sometimes jumps to 20W. Is it possible to disable the assistance when the human power is below i.e. 15W Maybe it should be in settings.

Today I just checked features of the new 0.20 FW. These modes you are introducing you have to choose individually? So eMTB mode together with Power mode or just one single mode? I sthere a plan to introduce a shortcut to switch between these modes i.e when you are down from the hill and enter the paved roads.

thx

mittkonto   10 mW

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by mittkonto » Sep 26 2019 11:29am

OttawaEbiker wrote:
Sep 26 2019 8:00am
- KT-LCD3 flash.... the 0.20 hex file on the official site does not seem to work....spent several hours recabling my ST-Link, nothing worked, always came back with a blank screen. Finally found a comment in this thread about buba's .ihx file (on his google drive) and used that....bingo. The previous versions of hex files worked, but not 0.20.
Bless you Sir! You are a gentleman and a scholar!
I flashed mine a half an hour ago, and thought; "Well, that didn't pan out.."
However the flashlog says otherwise. Gonna try this later tonight!

Thanks a bunch!!

OttawaEbiker   10 µW

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by OttawaEbiker » Sep 27 2019 8:02am

You're welcome mittkonto! Hope it worked out for you.

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by haiyi911 » Sep 27 2019 10:05am

Hello,
does the tsdz frimware can be used for other motor such as XF motor ?
36v250w TS controller
XF motor run smoothly with original firmware.u/v/w phase wires ,hall wires,throttle wires were connected,but without the LCD3 display and pas .
I downloaded the KT-LCD3-v0.18.2.hex and TSDZ2-v0.18.2.hex successfully . Didnot change any parameters,the motor didnot run when the power was 36v /48v. the same wires were connected.the LCD3 display displayed normaly.

daenny   1 mW

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by daenny » Sep 27 2019 10:34am

I just installed 0.20 beta 1. And initial impressions is great!
:bigthumb:
Thanks for the hard work.

Emtb mode works great. I would love to have two emtb modes with different sensitivity.

I will report back after using it for my daily commute
Current build:
GSM Woosh Middrive, with VESC controller, color LCD Display and Teensy ForumsController:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=84042

mittkonto   10 mW

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by mittkonto » Sep 28 2019 1:24pm

Finally got the fatbike (120mm bb, so.. had a jig made (got no access to a lathe) & threaded it, so far so good..) together, soldered it up like tomtom50 describes here. Nice and tidy... not my inexperienced soldering though! Everything works, did not test the throttle, will test the connection. My tsdz2 is really quiet. Thank the gods! Hm, maybe I should do a build thread. Any ho...

(N.B the needed cable from e-bike-technologies.de is HIGO-Z812-B)

Three mods to go, temperature sensor (got 8 Wire), a relay for my light (Busch + Müller Lumotec IQ-X E) and elfnino's silicone pad mod.

Regarding the firmware.
Rode about 5km stock firmware yesterday and 30km in various terrain today.
All I really can say about the experience... stock is a smile for 50m, OSF is a snortlaugh for 250m. Bloody brilliant is what that is!!

Thank you devs and contributors!!!
OttawaEbiker wrote:
Sep 27 2019 8:02am
You're welcome mittkonto! Hope it worked out for you.
It surely was! Thanks again!

casainho   1.21 GW

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by casainho » Sep 28 2019 1:56pm

mittkonto wrote:
Sep 28 2019 1:24pm
Thank the gods! Hm, maybe I should do a build thread.
I was thinking that could be good to have on wiki example of users as also example off bike builds. I think your ebike category would be a fatbike, and maybe you could have a page for your build and for the usage type you do to the ebike.

This could be kind of show room of TSDZ2 ebike builds as also users.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

mittkonto   10 mW

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by mittkonto » Sep 28 2019 2:15pm

casainho wrote:
Sep 28 2019 1:56pm
mittkonto wrote:
Sep 28 2019 1:24pm
Thank the gods! Hm, maybe I should do a build thread.
I was thinking that could be good to have on wiki example of users as also example off bike builds. I think your ebike category would be a fatbike, and maybe you could have a page for your build and for the usage type you do to the ebike.

This could be kind of show room of TSDZ2 ebike builds as also users.
I'd be honoured!!

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by hobbbes » Sep 28 2019 6:07pm

I just installed the 850c and flashed the motor. I could use walk mode and power and everything was showing up on screen but i had no assist when pedalling at assist level 9. wasn't showing human or motor power.

Any help would be appreciated.

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