TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Electric Motors and Controllers
HughF   100 W

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by HughF » Oct 08 2020 6:59am

plpetrov wrote:
Oct 08 2020 5:54am

What about the sensor cables for the brakes?
Does anyone actually use brake sensors? I don't find the need for them on either of my tsdz2 bikes
Genesis iOiD Alfine8 Hard tail MTB, 36v TSDZ2, 13s battery, SW102 display
Raleigh reynolds road frame from the 80's, TSDZ2, SW102 display, 1x10 drivetrain, gravel tyres

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by casainho » Oct 08 2020 7:25am

plpetrov wrote:
Oct 08 2020 5:54am
casainho wrote:
Oct 07 2020 12:17pm
[Image
What about the sensor cables for the brakes? Will they be wired or wireless? If we have to run two cables to the front, may be it will be a good idea to have wired buttons for those of us that are not interesting in buying the GPS and want to use only the phone app.

What about the places with very strong radio interferences in the 2.4 GHz frequency range.
I use brake sensors on my ebikes, but, sometimes the magnets fall of from the brake sensor and I have to drive without the sensor, yes, it works If I wait for the motor to stop before brake and that is ok also.

The communication will be Bluetooth and I hope it will work ok as there are gamepads with Bluetooth that work well, no noticeable delay.

Here the schematic for the DIY wireless remote I am being developing - commercial wireless remotes do not exist for connecting the brake sensors.
Image



I am thinking that TSDZ2 wireless EBike should work just like the commercial ones from Specialized - please refer to them, see the Youtube videos of how they work. The only thing new would be the brake sensors by wireless.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless Ebike boar ANT+ and Bluetooth, Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by plpetrov » Oct 08 2020 9:06am

I also use the brake sensor and I would say it was very useful and save me in one case.

It was my understanding the the remote connects to the GPS and then the GPS will connect to the bike. Now if I understand correctly it seems the remote connects to the bike directly and we can use it without GPS. Only the remote and the controller you connect to the motor.

May be as a back up, it will be nice to have wired connection, serial or directly the buttons. Like the existing one to the display but without the display itself.

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by casainho » Oct 08 2020 9:49am

plpetrov wrote:
Oct 08 2020 9:06am
I also use the brake sensor and I would say it was very useful and save me in one case.

It was my understanding the the remote connects to the GPS and then the GPS will connect to the bike. Now if I understand correctly it seems the remote connects to the bike directly and we can use it without GPS. Only the remote and the controller you connect to the motor.

May be as a back up, it will be nice to have wired connection, serial or directly the buttons. Like the existing one to the display but without the display itself.
Yes, it is possible to connect the wireless remote to the wireless display or to the wireless board. Is better to the wireless board so the wireless display is then optional.

Even more complex, I want to connect the remote both to display, so it can change the display page, by ANT+ as it is working currently as seen on my latest video - one button only to skip to next page and long press for previous page.
The other buttons should control the assist level and brake signal and will connect by Bluetooth to the wireless board.
This wireless boards can work simultaneous with Bluetooth and ANT.

Personally I want for my EBike the remote communicating to both the GPS display and the wireless board. If one day I do not use the GPS display, them the change page button will simple do nothing. Everything is very modular and hot swap.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless Ebike boar ANT+ and Bluetooth, Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation to help my developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by nesdon » Oct 08 2020 10:23am

I'm pretty new to ebikes, but I always stop pedaling before I brake, and that as soon as I stop, the power cuts. Maybe it's because I've ridden so much for so many decades, but I don't get why one would both pedal and brake.
48V 750W TSDZ2 on Ladies Electra Townie 3s converted to Nexus 8
2013 Nissan Leaf

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by casainho » Oct 08 2020 10:34am

nesdon wrote:
Oct 08 2020 10:23am
I'm pretty new to ebikes, but I always stop pedaling before I brake, and that as soon as I stop, the power cuts. Maybe it's because I've ridden so much for so many decades, but I don't get why one would both pedal and brake.
TSDZ2 can be installed on different style of bicycles, meaning different possible ride types.

I usually like to do a bit of track standing when I stop at red lights -- see on this tutorial how to apply pedal pressure and apply brakes to do a track stand:

- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless Ebike boar ANT+ and Bluetooth, Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by plpetrov » Oct 08 2020 11:16am

casainho wrote:
Oct 08 2020 9:49am
plpetrov wrote:
Oct 08 2020 9:06am
I also use the brake sensor and I would say it was very useful and save me in one case.

It was my understanding the the remote connects to the GPS and then the GPS will connect to the bike. Now if I understand correctly it seems the remote connects to the bike directly and we can use it without GPS. Only the remote and the controller you connect to the motor.

May be as a back up, it will be nice to have wired connection, serial or directly the buttons. Like the existing one to the display but without the display itself.
Yes, it is possible to connect the wireless remote to the wireless display or to the wireless board. Is better to the wireless board so the wireless display is then optional.

Even more complex, I want to connect the remote both to display, so it can change the display page, by ANT+ as it is working currently as seen on my latest video - one button only to skip to next page and long press for previous page.
The other buttons should control the assist level and brake signal and will connect by Bluetooth to the wireless board.
This wireless boards can work simultaneous with Bluetooth and ANT.

Personally I want for my EBike the remote communicating to both the GPS display and the wireless board. If one day I do not use the GPS display, them the change page button will simple do nothing. Everything is very modular and hot swap.
This looks promising. What about the motor firmware? Are you going to keep it the same as for the other displays, keeping the same serial protocol. This could easily give two other possibilities:
1. Easily switch between wired and wireless display simply unplugging the wireless board and connect a display.
2. In case of a second serial port available on the wireless controller, wireless and wired functionality could be used together in a similar way to the implementation of the ESP32 board?

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by casainho » Oct 08 2020 11:49am

plpetrov wrote:
Oct 08 2020 11:16am
This looks promising. What about the motor firmware? Are you going to keep it the same as for the other displays, keeping the same serial protocol. This could easily give two other possibilities:
1. Easily switch between wired and wireless display simply unplugging the wireless board and connect a display.
2. In case of a second serial port available on the wireless controller, wireless and wired functionality could be used together in a similar way to the implementation of the ESP32 board?
1. I wish to not change the motor firmware specifically for this project, currently I can't see a need for that.
The wireless board firmware acts like a virtual display, so it runs as if is a display like 860C or SW102 but I will remove unneeded features and add the specific needed one, but, as far motor controller communication I wish to keep the same as it is currently.
2. That would be another project, with even more development needed.

Personally I just want a very clean EBike with no display, just the wireless remote with the brake sensors. On this same EBike, only when I will use for MTB events or travels, I will attach to the handlebar the GPS wireless display to record the travel and my fitness data.

For my family city EBikes, no display at all, just the wireless remote button and brake sensor (although at anytime I can attach to the handlebar the GPS wireless display).

No more 860C or SW102 displays!! The GPS display is way more advanced!! Or even for the ones you prefer, use the mobile phone as display.

And there are other commercial simple wireless displays in the market. Maybe I will do a cheap DIY one.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless Ebike boar ANT+ and Bluetooth, Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation to help my developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by Swannking » Oct 08 2020 1:04pm

I updated the firmware to v1.1.0. I noticed on the top of the menu is “trip memories”. When I click on that, the 860c display freezes up with an error code and the buttons became non responsive. I had to reboot it by turning it off using the battery power switch. Other than that, I need to take it out for a test run after work. I noticed I also erased all my previous settings including the torque sensor calibration. Was there something I could do to save those info when I upload the motor firmware?

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by casainho » Oct 08 2020 1:29pm

Swannking wrote:
Oct 08 2020 1:04pm
I updated the firmware to v1.1.0. I noticed on the top of the menu is “trip memories”. When I click on that, the 860c display freezes up with an error code and the buttons became non responsive. I had to reboot it by turning it off using the battery power switch. Other than that, I need to take it out for a test run after work. I noticed I also erased all my previous settings including the torque sensor calibration. Was there something I could do to save those info when I upload the motor firmware?
That new feature was a contribution from httpss://github.com/Kenny-54 , I wish he could solve that issue.

You need record on a paper or on a file on your PC.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless Ebike boar ANT+ and Bluetooth, Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation to help my developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by mallesepp » Oct 09 2020 2:57am

Swannking wrote:
Oct 08 2020 1:04pm
I updated the firmware to v1.1.0. I noticed on the top of the menu is “trip memories”. When I click on that, the 860c display freezes up with an error code and the buttons became non responsive. I had to reboot it by turning it off using the battery power switch. Other than that, I need to take it out for a test run after work. I noticed I also erased all my previous settings including the torque sensor calibration. Was there something I could do to save those info when I upload the motor firmware?
I also installed 1.1.0. So far everything is ok! The response at the start is definitely better. I could not determine the freezing in the menu "Trip memories"! I will keep testing!
Hardtail Canyon AL 6.0 (2014) TSDZ2 36V 10S5P 860C
RaceBike Canyon AL 9.0 Di2 (2011) Humanpower 220 Watt/120 Minuten
Garmin Edge 1000, bePro Powermeter, Garmin Edge Remote

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by Swannking » Oct 09 2020 9:10am

mallesepp wrote:
Oct 09 2020 2:57am
Swannking wrote:
Oct 08 2020 1:04pm
I updated the firmware to v1.1.0. I noticed on the top of the menu is “trip memories”. When I click on that, the 860c display freezes up with an error code and the buttons became non responsive. I had to reboot it by turning it off using the battery power switch. Other than that, I need to take it out for a test run after work. I noticed I also erased all my previous settings including the torque sensor calibration. Was there something I could do to save those info when I upload the motor firmware?
I also installed 1.1.0. So far everything is ok! The response at the start is definitely better. I could not determine the freezing in the menu "Trip memories"! I will keep testing!
That’s odd that U didn’t have the problem with trip memories. I did a test ride on my recumbent trike. It’s definitely has more juice at the start up. So much that I may have to play around with the torque sensor calibrate at low torque range. Reason being when I am coasting, e.g. going down hill, and pedal, it obviously has not much pedal resistance, the motor kicks in much harder than before and then stop and kicks in again, almost like an oscillation. It’s no big deal but it feels kind of odd.

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by HughF » Oct 09 2020 12:05pm

Swannking wrote:
Oct 09 2020 9:10am
mallesepp wrote:
Oct 09 2020 2:57am
Swannking wrote:
Oct 08 2020 1:04pm
I updated the firmware to v1.1.0. I noticed on the top of the menu is “trip memories”. When I click on that, the 860c display freezes up with an error code and the buttons became non responsive. I had to reboot it by turning it off using the battery power switch. Other than that, I need to take it out for a test run after work. I noticed I also erased all my previous settings including the torque sensor calibration. Was there something I could do to save those info when I upload the motor firmware?
I also installed 1.1.0. So far everything is ok! The response at the start is definitely better. I could not determine the freezing in the menu "Trip memories"! I will keep testing!
That’s odd that U didn’t have the problem with trip memories. I did a test ride on my recumbent trike. It’s definitely has more juice at the start up. So much that I may have to play around with the torque sensor calibrate at low torque range. Reason being when I am coasting, e.g. going down hill, and pedal, it obviously has not much pedal resistance, the motor kicks in much harder than before and then stop and kicks in again, almost like an oscillation. It’s no big deal but it feels kind of odd.
Try switching the motor current control over to power instead of torque, should smooth things out.
Genesis iOiD Alfine8 Hard tail MTB, 36v TSDZ2, 13s battery, SW102 display
Raleigh reynolds road frame from the 80's, TSDZ2, SW102 display, 1x10 drivetrain, gravel tyres

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by Swannking » Oct 09 2020 2:01pm

Tried the trip memories again and it worked. :roll: I’ll give the power setting a try. I think u are right, it should be better.

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by Mr.Flibble » Oct 13 2020 11:31am

jeff.page.rides wrote:
Sep 27 2020 7:34pm
TSDZ2 Fluid Cooling

I’ve been working with this all summer. With several different leaks, different pumps, different tubing, different fluid routing, different fluids, and other difficulties. I finally have a fluid made to fill-up brushless Motors and it is working the way I wanted to from the start with no leaks. I can ride at 700 - 850 Watts all day long and the motor never gets more than 10-20 degrees warmer than the outside air. With all the same steps, but with only fluid in the left side of the case, and no external addons will keep the motor at 30 to 50 degrees warmer than the outside air at 700-850 watts. So that means you can ride at high watts at 100 degrees outside and note worry about overheating. I use a led temp display attached to the bottom of the 860C. It has 2 probes and both temps show, one I leave out in the air on the front of the bike the other one is in the oil in the motor. This also allows you to use a throttle and still have a temperature sensor. It’s cooler, quieter and it’s smoother, but unfortunately like everything I had to learn it all the hard way.

When the riding season is over in about 60 days I will be doing a step by step how-to, with directions and pictures so those that want to tackle this should be able to do it without all the mistakes I had to go through. I’ve attached a couple of photos, so you can see what I’ve done. I also added a new 42 tooth chainring from https://www.eco-ebike.com/collections/d ... lid-e-bike That works great and costs less than the other brand.

I’m trying to decide if I want to go through the effort to offer a kit with all the parts and fluid needed for both types, internal only and external cooling. There was a lot of trial and error finding the right fittings, the right type of hose, the right fluid the right pump, and everything else. To get all the right parts I had to go through several different suppliers, no one-stop-shop here. It’s a lot of work, but If I decide to do this they will be offered through,
www.electrifybike.com and possibly www.eco-ebike.com
Loving your work there :)
It looks like the inside of a gaming PC, maybe you should add some coloured dye to the liquid ? :)

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by Vbruun » Oct 14 2020 4:39am

Hi guys

Maybe especially casainho

I was toying with the idea of replacing the motor in the tsdz2 drive unit with another higher quality motor because the drive unit can take a Lot of power but the motor overheats if this is applied continuously.

I found a motor with similar kv, but more capable such as this
https://maytech.cn/collections/sensored ... 374-190-ha

Would the open source firmware be able to drive such a motor if it could be successfully mounted?

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by casainho » Oct 14 2020 12:29pm

Vbruun wrote:
Oct 14 2020 4:39am
Hi guys

Maybe especially casainho

I was toying with the idea of replacing the motor in the tsdz2 drive unit with another higher quality motor because the drive unit can take a Lot of power but the motor overheats if this is applied continuously.

I found a motor with similar kv, but more capable such as this
https://maytech.cn/collections/sensored ... 374-190-ha

Would the open source firmware be able to drive such a motor if it could be successfully mounted?
The firmware and the motor controller can only drive a motor with hall sensors.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless Ebike boar ANT+ and Bluetooth, Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation to help my developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by Vbruun » Oct 14 2020 12:56pm

That one was sensored ;)

But I take it that the answer is yes if the motor is sensored?

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by Swannking » Oct 14 2020 4:50pm

I updated my motor to v1.1.0 with a 860c display. I did a few test run. Today, I took it for for 30 mil ride. The route has some good climb (14%). The startup power seems to have improved. At the end of the trip, I noticed the trip distance was not correct. I use imperial system. Instead of roughly 28 mil total, the display registered something close to 17 mil. It was the same for trip distance A or B. The odometer on the other hand seems to have added the correct 28 mil. Could the program had treated the value as km and converted it to mil while the value was correctly recorded as mil and didn’t need any conversion. Any thoughts?

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by mctubster » Oct 14 2020 8:04pm

Vbruun wrote:
Oct 14 2020 4:39am
Hi guys

Maybe especially casainho

I was toying with the idea of replacing the motor in the tsdz2 drive unit with another higher quality motor because the drive unit can take a Lot of power but the motor overheats if this is applied continuously.

I found a motor with similar kv, but more capable such as this
https://maytech.cn/collections/sensored ... 374-190-ha

Would the open source firmware be able to drive such a motor if it could be successfully mounted?
I would argue various mechanical components are not good enough (bearings, shafts) to bother with upgrading the motor which seems to not really fail other than cooling issues which would require a similar fix no matter the motor

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by Vbruun » Oct 15 2020 1:10am

I guess youre right. I was thinking that maybe a higher grade motor can endure the temps that the original motor gets to without too many fuzzy mods.

But probably not worth the effort :(

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by casainho » Oct 15 2020 2:24am

Vbruun wrote:
Oct 14 2020 12:56pm
That one was sensored ;)

But I take it that the answer is yes if the motor is sensored?
The motor controller hardware is ok for this power motor, inductance. Also the firmware was developed specifically for this motor, for other motors you will need to test and see, like the FOC needs a specific inductance value of the motor.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless Ebike boar ANT+ and Bluetooth, Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation to help my developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by Vbruun » Oct 15 2020 3:12am

casainho wrote:
Oct 15 2020 2:24am
Vbruun wrote:
Oct 14 2020 12:56pm
That one was sensored ;)

But I take it that the answer is yes if the motor is sensored?
The motor controller hardware is ok for this power motor, inductance. Also the firmware was developed specifically for this motor, for other motors you will need to test and see, like the FOC needs a specific inductance value of the motor.
thank you

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by asje » Oct 16 2020 8:59am

Hi Guys, After having driven 2500 km with a 48V TSDZ2 since May 2020 (without issues :) ) I've decided to give the OpenSource firmware a try. I'm currently already happy with the standard software, but am looking foreward to use the OS firmware.

Bought the 860C and build the DIY bootloader box "viewtopic.php?f=30&t=93818&start=3900"
I've set up the to bootloader box to give off 30Volt and connected it to the display but the display will not power on.
Any idea's what might be the problem?

I've measured the all the output pins on the bafang connectors and all the wiring seems fine. I do notice that the CP2102 module gets hot and my computer sometimes gives an error message that the bootloader box is requiring to much power throught the USB port....

PS: Below a pic of the bike i've build.
48V TSDZ2, 17AH battery, Rohloff 14 speed hub, Chainglider & Magura HS33 rim brakes.
IMG_6130.JPG
IMG_6130.JPG (166.67 KiB) Viewed 171 times

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by casainho » Oct 16 2020 10:42am

asje wrote:
Oct 16 2020 8:59am
I do notice that the CP2102 module gets hot and my computer sometimes gives an error message that the bootloader box is requiring to much power throught the USB port....
If the to much power happens only when the display is connected, than I would say it is burned. Clearly something is wrong, it is bot supposed to happen.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless Ebike boar ANT+ and Bluetooth, Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation to help my developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

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