TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Electric Motors and Controllers
jeff.page.rides   100 W

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by jeff.page.rides » Dec 13 2020 8:11pm

When your TSDZ2 stops all of a sudden and won't work anymore what's the best way to identify whether it's the controller or the motor?

casainho   100 GW

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by casainho » Dec 13 2020 8:21pm

jeff.page.rides wrote:
Dec 13 2020 8:11pm
When your TSDZ2 stops all of a sudden and won't work anymore what's the best way to identify whether it's the controller or the motor?
Make the motor rotate with walkassist as usual, it should rotate - keep a look on the display motor current, motor speed, PWM duty-cycle, those should increase.
- EBike wireless standard: wireless motor, wireless cycling GPS display Garmin Edge and wireless remote with wireless brake sensor
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless EBike standard ANT+ and Bluetooth, TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

Please consider a donation to help developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by Mr.Flibble » Dec 15 2020 5:09am

So no one knows what the ADC steps settings are then ?

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by Woly » Dec 15 2020 1:03pm

If you are looking to make the motor pause while you shift, you should look into installing a gear shift sensor. https://gearsensor.com. I don't think changing the minimum current will do what you want.

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by jeff.page.rides » Dec 15 2020 2:12pm

casainho wrote:
Dec 13 2020 8:21pm
jeff.page.rides wrote:
Dec 13 2020 8:11pm
When your TSDZ2 stops all of a sudden and won't work anymore what's the best way to identify whether it's the controller or the motor?
Make the motor rotate with walk-assist as usual, it should rotate - keep a look on the display motor current, motor speed, PWM duty-cycle, those should increase.
Thanks, but I don't understand how doing this tells me what part, the motor or controller has gone bad?

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by casainho » Dec 15 2020 3:51pm

jeff.page.rides wrote:
Dec 15 2020 2:12pm
casainho wrote:
Dec 13 2020 8:21pm
jeff.page.rides wrote:
Dec 13 2020 8:11pm
When your TSDZ2 stops all of a sudden and won't work anymore what's the best way to identify whether it's the controller or the motor?
Make the motor rotate with walk-assist as usual, it should rotate - keep a look on the display motor current, motor speed, PWM duty-cycle, those should increase.
Thanks, but I don't understand how doing this tells me what part, the motor or controller has gone bad?
Do it and report here the values. If you are curious, try to read on web how this type of motor works. If you try to make it work and it does not, than it is fault of motor and not the controller.
- EBike wireless standard: wireless motor, wireless cycling GPS display Garmin Edge and wireless remote with wireless brake sensor
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless EBike standard ANT+ and Bluetooth, TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

Please consider a donation to help developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

jeff.page.rides   100 W

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by jeff.page.rides » Dec 15 2020 5:31pm

casainho wrote:
Dec 15 2020 3:51pm
jeff.page.rides wrote:
Dec 15 2020 2:12pm
casainho wrote:
Dec 13 2020 8:21pm
jeff.page.rides wrote:
Dec 13 2020 8:11pm
When your TSDZ2 stops all of a sudden and won't work anymore what's the best way to identify whether it's the controller or the motor?
Make the motor rotate with walk-assist as usual, it should rotate - keep a look on the display motor current, motor speed, PWM duty-cycle, those should increase.
Thanks, but I don't understand how doing this tells me what part, the motor or controller has gone bad?
Do it and report here the values. If you are curious, try to read on web how this type of motor works. If you try to make it work and it does not, than it is fault of motor and not the controller.
Coaster Brake motors don't use walk assist, Is there any way to use a multimeter or something else to check the Motors and Controllers?

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by plpetrov » Dec 15 2020 7:04pm

jeff.page.rides wrote:
Dec 15 2020 5:31pm
casainho wrote:
Dec 15 2020 3:51pm
jeff.page.rides wrote:
Dec 15 2020 2:12pm
casainho wrote:
Dec 13 2020 8:21pm

Make the motor rotate with walk-assist as usual, it should rotate - keep a look on the display motor current, motor speed, PWM duty-cycle, those should increase.
Thanks, but I don't understand how doing this tells me what part, the motor or controller has gone bad?
Do it and report here the values. If you are curious, try to read on web how this type of motor works. If you try to make it work and it does not, than it is fault of motor and not the controller.
Coaster Brake motors don't use walk assist, Is there any way to use a multimeter or something else to check the Motors and Controllers?
Having a coaster brake motor, I can confirm that the walk assist mode is perfectly working. The only difference to the regular motor is that the pedals are also rotating and if you are not careful enough they could hit your legs while walking next to the bike.

Maybe Casainho wants to identify possible problems you might have with your motor with this test. It could be also, he is not clear enough omitting some other steps like:
1. Does the pressing of the power button turns your display on?
2. Is the communication with the motor successfully established?
3. Are you able to change the assist levels and also to enter in configuration mode and modify some parameters.
4. If the steps from 1 to 3 are OK, on an assist level higher than zero, try holding the minus button to activate walk assist mode. Does your motor turn in this case? If not do you hear any noises from it.

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by Mr.Flibble » Dec 16 2020 11:56am

Woly wrote:
Dec 15 2020 1:03pm
If you are looking to make the motor pause while you shift, you should look into installing a gear shift sensor. https://gearsensor.com. I don't think changing the minimum current will do what you want.
Thx for that link.
But that needs break sensors to work.

Does anyone know hat the setting does?

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by jeff.page.rides » Dec 16 2020 6:34pm

plpetrov wrote:
Dec 15 2020 7:04pm
jeff.page.rides wrote:
Dec 15 2020 5:31pm
casainho wrote:
Dec 15 2020 3:51pm
jeff.page.rides wrote:
Dec 15 2020 2:12pm


Thanks, but I don't understand how doing this tells me what part, the motor or controller has gone bad?
Do it and report here the values. If you are curious, try to read on web how this type of motor works. If you try to make it work and it does not, than it is fault of motor and not the controller.
Coaster Brake motors don't use walk assist, Is there any way to use a multimeter or something else to check the Motors and Controllers?
Having a coaster brake motor, I can confirm that the walk assist mode is perfectly working. The only difference to the regular motor is that the pedals are also rotating and if you are not careful enough they could hit your legs while walking next to the bike.

Maybe Casainho wants to identify possible problems you might have with your motor with this test. It could be also, he is not clear enough omitting some other steps like:
1. Does the pressing of the power button turns your display on?
2. Is the communication with the motor successfully established?
3. Are you able to change the assist levels and also to enter in configuration mode and modify some parameters.
4. If the steps from 1 to 3 are OK, on an assist level higher than zero, try holding the minus button to activate walk assist mode. Does your motor turn in this case? If not do you hear any noises from it.
Thanks, I will look into all these.

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by HughF » Dec 17 2020 4:24am

Mr.Flibble wrote:
Dec 16 2020 11:56am
Woly wrote:
Dec 15 2020 1:03pm
If you are looking to make the motor pause while you shift, you should look into installing a gear shift sensor. https://gearsensor.com. I don't think changing the minimum current will do what you want.
Thx for that link.
But that needs break sensors to work.

Does anyone know hat the setting does?
It doesn't need brake sensors, the shift sensor connects to the brake sensor input and simulates a braking input whenever you shift.

What sort of gear setup do you have that won't shift under slight load?
Genesis iOiD Alfine8 Hard tail MTB, 36v TSDZ2, 13s battery, SW102 display
Raleigh reynolds road frame from the 80's, 36v TSDZ2, 13s battery, SW102 display, 1x10 drivetrain, gravel tyres

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by Mr.Flibble » Dec 18 2020 1:25pm

HughF wrote:
Dec 17 2020 4:24am
Mr.Flibble wrote:
Dec 16 2020 11:56am
Woly wrote:
Dec 15 2020 1:03pm
If you are looking to make the motor pause while you shift, you should look into installing a gear shift sensor. https://gearsensor.com. I don't think changing the minimum current will do what you want.
Thx for that link.
But that needs break sensors to work.

Does anyone know hat the setting does?
It doesn't need brake sensors, the shift sensor connects to the brake sensor input and simulates a braking input whenever you shift.

What sort of gear setup do you have that won't shift under slight load?
That would require break sensor inputs.

I can change gear, but I don't want to destroy my cassette, chainring and chain.

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by jgold » Dec 19 2020 8:03pm

I'm also having trouble with the motor/controller. I did my first big ride with a new DIY ebike yesterday. My son has been riding it with no issues reported but I wanted to give it a good workout. I ran into a couple of problems.

First, when I first started riding it was getting a loud wirr wirr kind of sound coming from the motor whenever the boost would kick in. It wasn't doing that last time it was ridden by my son. It was cold out (under 60 degrees) so I thought that might have something to do with it. It quieted down after a bit. I couldn't hear it over the sound of gravel and sand on the trail but I could hear it clearly when I got back on the pavement.

While riding on the trail it felt like the motor was helping even though I wasn't pedaling. It was hard to tell for sure but it really felt like it should be slowing down more than it was. That's compared to my the non-electric bike I normally ride.

I ended up turning the assist to zero to see if that made any difference. It seemed like it was behaving like a normal bike without any assist but again, it was subtle and hard to tell.

When I got to the bottom of the trail turned the assist back on but it didn't feel like I was getting any. I noticed that the display was showing 0 mph. I guess the sensor got hit at some point so I had to adjust it to get the MPH reading again. I still wasn't getting any boost. I removed the battery and plugged it back in and that started it working.

Today I was making some further adjustments and the boost just stopped working again. Everything seems normal on the bike. All the wires are connected. It turns off and on. The display seems fine. I can go through the settings screen and everything. The motor just never kicks in.

I tried removing the battery and even re-flashing the firrmware but the motor just will not kick in anymore. I suspect it must be the controller but maybe not. Anyone have any idea?

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by Haschi1989 » Dec 24 2020 4:03am

Hello, since 2 weeks I have a TSDZ2 engine in my bike. I used the SW102 Display with the latest osfw, some improvements regarding the thermal household.
Than I exchanged the freewheel bearing in the big gear with a dummy so I created my own coaster brake version.
Than I installed brake Sensors.
Everything works fine to me. Current ramp 5 A/sec, max current 12 A, max power 350W @ 36-42V.
coaster brake option in software is enabled and brake value is 15.
the only thing I haven't done since now is the calibration of the torque sensor.

I appreciate your work casainho and I love it. Merry Christmas to all of you.

regards Patrick
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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by casainho » Dec 24 2020 4:30am

Haschi1989 wrote:
Dec 24 2020 4:03am
Hello, since 2 weeks I have a TSDZ2 engine in my bike. I used the SW102 Display with the latest osfw, some improvements regarding the thermal household.
Than I exchanged the freewheel bearing in the big gear with a dummy so I created my own coaster brake version.
Than I installed brake Sensors.
Everything works fine to me. Current ramp 5 A/sec, max current 12 A, max power 350W @ 36-42V.
coaster brake option in software is enabled and brake value is 15.
the only thing I haven't done since now is the calibration of the torque sensor.

Image

I appreciate your work casainho and I love it. Merry Christmas to all of you.

regards Patrick
Hi, thanks for sharing, including that nice picture!!

And you should calibrate the torque sensor - usually the users give good feedback about it, like feeling the motor more responsive.

Merry Christmas!!
- EBike wireless standard: wireless motor, wireless cycling GPS display Garmin Edge and wireless remote with wireless brake sensor
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless EBike standard ANT+ and Bluetooth, TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

Please consider a donation to help developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

Haschi1989   1 µW

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by Haschi1989 » Dec 24 2020 5:59am

casainho wrote:
Dec 24 2020 4:30am
Haschi1989 wrote:
Dec 24 2020 4:03am
Hello, since 2 weeks I have a TSDZ2 engine in my bike. I used the SW102 Display with the latest osfw, some improvements regarding the thermal household.
Than I exchanged the freewheel bearing in the big gear with a dummy so I created my own coaster brake version.
Than I installed brake Sensors.
Everything works fine to me. Current ramp 5 A/sec, max current 12 A, max power 350W @ 36-42V.
coaster brake option in software is enabled and brake value is 15.
the only thing I haven't done since now is the calibration of the torque sensor.

Image

I appreciate your work casainho and I love it. Merry Christmas to all of you.

regards Patrick
Hi, thanks for sharing, including that nice picture!!

And you should calibrate the torque sensor - usually the users give good feedback about it, like feeling the motor more responsive.

Merry Christmas!!
Thank you for this advice. I will do it next year. therefore I need some weights I can put on the pedal.
During the installation process, I had to exchange the torque sensor (the motor was not new, I bought it as used) with the new one. The new one is improved designed at the type of fixing of the coil and it has now a fixed position of the bearing in axiale orientation.

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by Swannking » Jan 06 2021 1:52am

I ran into a new problem today. I'm running the osf with 860c display, v1.0.0. I noticed after turning off the display, the data are not getting saved e.g. odometer and the assist level. It would only happened in the past when I powered down using the battery on/off switch. But now, turning the display off by its own remote switch seems to cause problem with saving the latest settings. Should I reload the display firmware?

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by Haschi1989 » Jan 08 2021 12:32am

Morning,
I had also a confusing issue today. I plug out the charger, battery was charged 100%. than I swiched the display on (SW102 OSF build December 2020), but the state of charge is still at about 50%.
Dose the software need a lerning process? Voltage is set to 42V fully charged in the display.
regards

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by Haschi1989 » Jan 09 2021 11:24am

Problem solved, reset voltage was to high.

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by Myers » Jan 11 2021 3:12pm

Hello!

I am new here (with poor english). I would like to buy a TSDZ2 kit, there is a winter sale on Aliexpress. I already have a Bafang BBS02B 750W, +850C display which I really like.
There is a TSDZ2 with 850C, but id does not show the performance (watt) . As well as with this display, they only sell a 500W version. I was thinking of buying the 500 and converting it to a 750W with an OSF.

What I want is a 750W TSDZ2 with P850C display and throttle.

Which one should I buy? For example:

1. TSDZ2 500W+850C (6! pin display connector) + throttle : https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000060752329.html

Does your kit have the 5/6 pin display connector?

Or should I buy:
- a pure TSDZ2 motor, without or with display but not VLCD5?
- a 1T2/1T3/1T4 cable with 5! pin display connector
- and a Bafang 850C or 860? display with 5 pin
- a flash kit.

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by vdivald » Jan 20 2021 7:10am

Hello,

I face a strange issue with my TSDZ2 setup and I would like to ask some advice/help.
I run OSF 1.1.0 with SW102 display on a regular hardtail trekking bike.
When I'm pedalling the assist drops for short period of time. It happens only when I apply bigger force on the pedals. It only happens if I pedal hard. If I pedal very lightly with a high assist level, the motor current is normal, it goes up to 16 Amp (software limit) and assist is normal. If I keep pedalling hard the assist doesn't return.

When the assist drops, the following variables drop to 0 according to the display: motor current, battery current, motor PWM, motor speed. Torque and cadence values are OK.

I tested the torque ADC value, and it works normal. ADC value increases as I apply more pressure up until I'm standing with my body weight on one pedal. No drop in value.

I also disassebmled the entire mechanics and I didn't notice any irregularity.

I used 1.0.0 for months without any issue. Than this started to happen. I upgraded to 1.1.0 but the issue is the same. I'm not sure it's software related.

Do you guys have any idea what could cause this?

Thanks,

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by casainho » Jan 20 2021 7:26am

vdivald wrote:
Jan 20 2021 7:10am
Hello,

I face a strange issue with my TSDZ2 setup and I would like to ask some advice/help.
I run OSF 1.1.0 with SW102 display on a regular hardtail trekking bike.
When I'm pedalling the assist drops for short period of time. It happens only when I apply bigger force on the pedals. It only happens if I pedal hard. If I pedal very lightly with a high assist level, the motor current is normal, it goes up to 16 Amp (software limit) and assist is normal. If I keep pedalling hard the assist doesn't return.

When the assist drops, the following variables drop to 0 according to the display: motor current, battery current, motor PWM, motor speed. Torque and cadence values are OK.

I tested the torque ADC value, and it works normal. ADC value increases as I apply more pressure up until I'm standing with my body weight on one pedal. No drop in value.

I also disassebmled the entire mechanics and I didn't notice any irregularity.

I used 1.0.0 for months without any issue. Than this started to happen. I upgraded to 1.1.0 but the issue is the same. I'm not sure it's software related.

Do you guys have any idea what could cause this?

Thanks,
You did very well to look all that variables and report here their values!!

That is a bit of strange... something is making the PWM going to zero... I would say maybe the battery low voltage limit is getting active??

Try to reduce the current ramp value... does it helps?? try to look at your battery voltage when that happens, maybe it is going very low...
- EBike wireless standard: wireless motor, wireless cycling GPS display Garmin Edge and wireless remote with wireless brake sensor
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless EBike standard ANT+ and Bluetooth, TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

Please consider a donation to help developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by vdivald » Jan 20 2021 9:18am

casainho wrote:
Jan 20 2021 7:26am
You did very well to look all that variables and report here their values!!

That is a bit of strange... something is making the PWM going to zero... I would say maybe the battery low voltage limit is getting active??

Try to reduce the current ramp value... does it helps?? try to look at your battery voltage when that happens, maybe it is going very low...
Hi, Thanks for the quick answer. I went for a test drive to check:

The battery voltage is 49V and doesn't drop much (~0.5V if the assist is active). Certainly not to the level of the cutoff voltage which is set to 39V.
I tried different current ramp values from 8A to 4A and the issue remains with every setting.

I also checked the Hall sensor readings in the Technical menu. If I rotate the rear wheel backward slowly, the number sequence is the following: 5,1,3,2,6,4 and it's repeating. But sometimes it skips values even if I rotate it very slowly. Could this be a problem?

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by casainho » Jan 20 2021 9:28am

vdivald wrote:
Jan 20 2021 9:18am
I also checked the Hall sensor readings in the Technical menu. If I rotate the rear wheel backward slowly, the number sequence is the following: 5,1,3,2,6,4 and it's repeating. But sometimes it skips values even if I rotate it very slowly. Could this be a problem?
Yes, if hall sensors are not working correctly, that will be an issue. Try another motor or try understand why the values skip.
- EBike wireless standard: wireless motor, wireless cycling GPS display Garmin Edge and wireless remote with wireless brake sensor
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless EBike standard ANT+ and Bluetooth, TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

Please consider a donation to help developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by vdivald » Jan 20 2021 9:36am

casainho wrote:
Jan 20 2021 9:28am
Yes, if hall sensors are not working correctly, that will be an issue. Try another motor or try understand why the values skip.
Could you descibe in general how the control loop works with regards to the variables? What are the inputs and outputs? Which variable is calculated directly from a sensor on the bike? What are the hall sensors responsible for?

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