Brushless motor controller with reverse

Electric Motors and Controllers
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shane0926   1 mW

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Brushless motor controller with reverse

Post by shane0926 » May 19 2018 8:36am

I have been searching for a motor controller for a sensored brushless hub motor that includes reverse capability. The application for all intensive purposes during this discussion would be very similar to how a Segway reacts. There will be constant swapping between forward and reverse based on the demand from an Arduino. The motor i will be driving will be between 36v - 48v and between 350w to 500w. Is there a controller out there that anyone has seen that has this capability that won't break the bank?

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skeetab5780   10 MW

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Re: Brushless motor controller with reverse

Post by skeetab5780 » May 19 2018 8:46am

Kelly controllers offer variable reverse but im not sure how it handles constant swapping but i would assume it ok as long as the throttle signal is momentarily cut between swaps. Check the manuals out on kellycontroller.com

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: Brushless motor controller with reverse

Post by fechter » May 19 2018 10:13am

Many controllers have a reverse function but in most of them the reverse speed is much lower than the forward speed. Some may have settings in software to change the reverse speed limit.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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skeetab5780   10 MW

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Re: Brushless motor controller with reverse

Post by skeetab5780 » May 19 2018 10:25am

Kelly def has program option for 100% speed in reverse

shane0926   1 mW

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Re: Brushless motor controller with reverse

Post by shane0926 » May 19 2018 11:02am

Thanks for getting back so fast. I checked out Kelly controllers. The KLS4812S looks like it would do the job, though it's slightly pricy for my application at this point. I'm in the proof of concept stage of prototyping something and was hoping for a controller to play with at a more disposable price...considering a standard hub motor controller can be had for about $30 on eBay. Does anyone know of a method for achieving this for a little less money?

I'm more used to working with brushed DC motors and the controller would have a pwm speed input pin as well as 2 direction pins. So, simply pick which direction pin to pull up, and away you go.

Thanks

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amberwolf   100 GW

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Re: Brushless motor controller with reverse

Post by amberwolf » May 19 2018 1:27pm

I've had a few generic ebike brushless controllers with reverse, but they all work a bit differently from each other.

Some will reverse at lower speed or power.

Some reverse full speed/power, but only if you completely stop the motor motion manually first.

Only one (an old Grinfineon thats not made anymore) will start reverse at full speed/power *and* while still moving forward.

shane0926   1 mW

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Re: Brushless motor controller with reverse

Post by shane0926 » Jun 11 2018 3:11pm

So, I looked into the Grin Technologies controllers and actually found them still being sold at ebikes.ca. I read through the whole manual and couldn't find anywhere that it explicitly stated that you could reverse will in forward motion. They did look like nice controllers though. I have searched the web today for about 7 hours scouring every forum I could find and I'm very surprised to see that there isn't a brushless controller out there anywhere that could accomplish what I need. (Segway type function)

I really have to find one as it is essential to what I'm trying to achieve. Can anyone confirm that the Grinfineon controllers can deal with a reverse signal will rotating forward and apply appropriate reverse torque? Almost like braking that continues on to driving in the reverse direction.

If anyone has any leads on where to find a controller or how to accomplish this...PLEASE let me know.

Thanks!

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amberwolf   100 GW

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Re: Brushless motor controller with reverse

Post by amberwolf » Jun 12 2018 1:17am

shane0926 wrote:
Jun 11 2018 3:11pm
So, I looked into the Grin Technologies controllers and actually found them still being sold at ebikes.ca.

That's probably because ebikes.ca *is* Grin Tech. ;)

Keep in mind that, as I said above, the one I have isn't made anymore; it's an old version.

Doesnt' mean the new ones won't do the same thing, but I haven't had one so I don't know.

Can anyone confirm that the Grinfineon controllers can deal with a reverse signal will rotating forward and apply appropriate reverse torque? Almost like braking that continues on to driving in the reverse direction.
Have you asked Grin Tech if the model they currently sell can do that? (or any of their other controllers, like the Phaserunner, etc) They may have tested this specific scenario on one of their Unicycle builds.


I'm sure there's something out there that can do what you want.

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: Brushless motor controller with reverse

Post by fechter » Jun 12 2018 8:26am

Most controllers aren't going to allow reversing direction if the throttle is above zero. Your control circuit would need to ramp the throttle down to zero, then hit the reverse switch and ramp the throttle back up. This could all be done pretty quickly but the ramp up speed might be limited by the controller.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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Alan B   100 GW

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Re: Brushless motor controller with reverse

Post by Alan B » Jun 12 2018 8:33am

Perhaps controllers intended for unicycle use will have the appropriate rapid-reversing logic. Grin does work with unicycles so they should know which of their products would be appropriate. You might try corresponding with their customer support.

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Re: Brushless motor controller with reverse

Post by shane0926 » Jun 13 2018 5:12pm

fechter wrote:
Jun 12 2018 8:26am
Your control circuit would need to ramp the throttle down to zero, then hit the reverse switch and ramp the throttle back up.
Yes, this is it precisely. It seems that one of the only applications for this specifically is a Segway/Unicycle/Hoverboard. So, I guess the complanies behind these devices must have all designed their own proprietary controllers.
Alan B wrote:
Jun 12 2018 8:33am
Perhaps controllers intended for unicycle use will have the appropriate rapid-reversing logic. Grin does work with unicycles so they should know which of their products would be appropriate. You might try corresponding with their customer support.
I have reached out to them, waiting on a response.

Thanks!

sammisaran   1 µW

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Re: Brushless motor controller with reverse

Post by sammisaran » Jun 14 2018 1:59pm

This guy has made a number of self-balancing projects that would need to have a motor controller with reverse. I haven't dug through the website thoroughly, but it may have the info you're looking for or he may be able to help out.

https://sites.google.com/site/onewheeledselfbalancing/

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: Brushless motor controller with reverse

Post by fechter » Jun 15 2018 10:33am

If you are using an Arduino or some other microprocessor to manage the gyro inputs etc., that could be programmed to do the throttle ramping and reverse switching so you can use a "normal" controller that has a reverse function. I don't think any controller is going to be happy with a direction change while the motor is being powered.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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amberwolf   100 GW

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Re: Brushless motor controller with reverse

Post by amberwolf » Jun 15 2018 9:53pm

The problem with most of the "normal" controllers I have used that have a full-power/speed reverse function, is that this function cannot be engaged until the motor comes to a full and complete stop, whether it's being powered or not.

I don't know how representative mine are of the generally available ebike type controllers, but I suspect they're fairly typical of generic stuff.

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