Kelly kls7230s- speed restriction?

Electric Motors and Controllers
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windchaser   1 mW

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Kelly kls7230s- speed restriction?

Post by windchaser » Aug 20 2018 10:27am

Looking for someone with the Kelly kls7230s

I recently replaced my Adaptto Max E with a Kelly.

Everything works well on my Kelly controller system now except for what seem like a 45kph speed restriction. My controller seems to limit itself to 45kph on the road and 51kph on the bench with no load. (gps authenticated speed).

It will get to 40 very quickly and hold 40-to 45- on the flat or even uphill. It's very smooth up to that speed.

At about 42kph- the controller just seems to cut the power to 0, in fact it goes negative above that downhill with full throttle w/o regen braking button depressed.

I have read and reread the manual, searched online, and tried to play with the obvious parameters to see if I could get improvement- but at the end I still seem to have this restriction. The obvious parameter was RPMs which is set at 15000 which is the maximum- so this is clearly not the issue.

The Adaptto max-e with the same battery and motor would run at 80-90KPH on the road and over 130 on the bench using overvolt.

The Kelly system has very strong acceleration up to 42- 1 have seen over 7000w when used uphill at full throttle- I am very happy with the Kelly except for the speed restriction- It's very strange it just stops at 45 when it has all this power before that.

Configuration:

-Battery, 72v 1440wh
- Motor, QS v3
- powerwatcher system
- BMS

Any ideas would be gratefully received.

thanks

g

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eee291   10 kW

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Re: Kelly kls7230s- speed restriction?

Post by eee291 » Aug 20 2018 11:25am

You have to change the max output frequency on the Controller I think default it was something like 4000 I had to change it to 7200 to get my top speed.

EDIT!! I was wrong to suggest a frequency change! I mistook it for the RPM! I messaged him and told him not to do it, hopefully I'm not too late.
Last edited by eee291 on Aug 20 2018 4:35pm, edited 1 time in total.

2WheelsMovesTheSoul   100 W

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Re: Kelly kls7230s- speed restriction?

Post by 2WheelsMovesTheSoul » Aug 20 2018 12:03pm

1. do you use the 3 speed option? (end of page 18 to 19)

if NO, go to config screen on app, look for "midspeed forw speed", change from 50 to 100 (most likely solution)

if YES, go to config screen on app, look for "max fwd speed %", make sure its at 100

2. what is your "Current Percent" or phase current set to? (page 16, setting #3) --- make sure its at 100 ( provided battery can handle load )

3. what is your "Battery Limit" set to? (page 17, setting #4) --- make sure its at 100 ( provided battery can handle load )

3. what is your "Accel Time" set to? (page 22, setting #3) ----> change from 10 to 1

Let us know what you find
eee291 wrote:
Aug 20 2018 11:25am
You have to change the max output frequency on the Controller I think default it was something like 4000 I had to change it to 7200 to get my top speed.

I have no clue why in the Manual it tells you not to go over 1000hz. I think they meant 10000hz
not sure about this one.... I never had to bother with this. My KLS/205 combo rocketed to 60mph with no adjustments here.

also the max RPM setting is kinda pointless for DD hub motors, I think the fastest wind that QS makes in a 205 is like less than 1200rpm. this setting is for RC motors that routinely see 10,000 rpm or more.

windchaser   1 mW

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Re: Kelly kls7230s- speed restriction?

Post by windchaser » Aug 20 2018 2:44pm

2WheelsMovesTheSoul wrote:
Aug 20 2018 12:03pm
1. do you use the 3 speed option? (end of page 18 to 19)

if NO, go to config screen on app, look for "midspeed forw speed", change from 50 to 100 (most likely solution)

looking good!!!! 113kph on the bench and 1700RPM- this is what I was looking for.

dark and too many glasses of wine to do a 90kpm blast down the road- so will report tomorrow

if YES, go to config screen on app, look for "max fwd speed %", make sure its at 100

2. what is your "Current Percent" or phase current set to? (page 16, setting #3) --- make sure its at 100 ( provided battery can handle load )

tried this

3. what is your "Battery Limit" set to? (page 17, setting #4) --- make sure its at 100 ( provided battery can handle load )

tried this

3. what is your "Accel Time" set to? (page 22, setting #3) ----> change from 10 to 1

I am on 3- 1 was crazy as I could not keep the front wheel on the ground when I tried it

Let us know what you find
eee291 wrote:
Aug 20 2018 11:25am
You have to change the max output frequency on the Controller I think default it was something like 4000 I had to change it to 7200 to get my top speed.

I have no clue why in the Manual it tells you not to go over 1000hz. I think they meant 10000hz
not sure about this one.... I never had to bother with this. My KLS/205 combo rocketed to 60mph with no adjustments here.

also the max RPM setting is kinda pointless for DD hub motors, I think the fastest wind that QS makes in a 205 is like less than 1200rpm. this setting is for RC motors that routinely see 10,000 rpm or more.
Thanks for the quick help- I think I have found the golden nugget here.

windchaser   1 mW

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Re: Kelly kls7230s- speed restriction?

Post by windchaser » Aug 20 2018 2:46pm

eee291 wrote:
Aug 20 2018 11:25am
You have to change the max output frequency on the Controller I think default it was something like 4000 I had to change it to 7200 to get my top speed.

I have no clue why in the Manual it tells you not to go over 1000hz. I think they meant 10000hz

thanks for this, I am going to try and up this tomorrow when I have some light. mine seems to be set at 1000.

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eee291   10 kW

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Re: Kelly kls7230s- speed restriction?

Post by eee291 » Aug 20 2018 4:36pm

I was wrong to suggest a frequency change! I mistook it for the RPM! I messaged windchaser and told him not to do it, hopefully I'm not too late.

windchaser   1 mW

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Re: Kelly kls7230s- speed restriction?

Post by windchaser » Aug 21 2018 2:05am

windchaser wrote:
Aug 20 2018 2:44pm
2WheelsMovesTheSoul wrote:
Aug 20 2018 12:03pm
1. do you use the 3 speed option? (end of page 18 to 19)

if NO, go to config screen on app, look for "midspeed forw speed", change from 50 to 100 (most likely solution)


looking good!!!! 113kph on the bench and 1700RPM- this is what I was looking for.

dark and too many glasses of wine to do a 90kpm blast down the road- so will report tomorrow

OK- that is the magic button- but be careful! this adds so much power it is just nuts... i am going to dial it back a bit now after the test ride.

thanks for the solution.

2WheelsMovesTheSoul   100 W

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Re: Kelly kls7230s- speed restriction?

Post by 2WheelsMovesTheSoul » Aug 21 2018 10:05am

No worries
Thumbs-and-Ammo-02.jpg
Thumbs-and-Ammo-02.jpg (23.69 KiB) Viewed 521 times
I kept wondering the same thing for a day or two until I figured it out.

So here's what happened to the bike the first time I went from 50 to 100.
wheelie crash damage.jpg
wheelie crash damage 2.jpg
I was on the first long distance shake down ride to work, got there, played with the setting, didn't think it worked or made an actual change since i just rolled it around the parking lot. Get out on the street, casually rolling up to like 35-40ish, see the light ahead is about to change, whack the throttle and HOLY FUGGIN SHIT 12 O'clock and sparks all the way thru the intersection.

So, yeah, ya might wanna dial that in a bit.

windchaser   1 mW

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Re: Kelly kls7230s- speed restriction?

Post by windchaser » Aug 21 2018 12:10pm

double
Last edited by windchaser on Aug 21 2018 1:31pm, edited 1 time in total.

windchaser   1 mW

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Re: Kelly kls7230s- speed restriction?

Post by windchaser » Aug 21 2018 1:30pm

I'm glad you stayed upright. I was just not expecting power wheelies to happen where to old setting started leveling off. I'm now typing with one handand not the right one.

Warning- use great caution when upping this parameter. 10 units at a time and then test- cover the back brake.

Also back off accel. mine was on 3 when the afterburner ignited.

phate   10 W

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Re: Kelly kls7230s- speed restriction?

Post by phate » Aug 22 2018 4:01am

The Adaptto has field weakening, right?

As far as I know the Kelly's do not (and if they do, it's baked into their normal motor control and never mentioned in any of their documentation). It's possible that you're just hitting the limit of Kv * Voltage on the Kelly, and it won't go any faster.

I wish the KLS did have some form of overspeed capability. Would probably be able to get my bike to go 90mph, lol.

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flippy   10 kW

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Re: Kelly kls7230s- speed restriction?

Post by flippy » Aug 30 2018 2:26pm

Pro tip: dont put a kelly on 100% battery amps.

Set the percentage to the max current you can draw or want to draw. 1% is 3 amps. So for 100A on the battery you set it to 33%.
Motor amps needs to be set the same but with youe max phase amps rating from the motor specs.

I use max battery amps to control the maximum acceleration as it lowers the load on the battery wich is the most expensive part.
I also get wheelies above 60% so i tend to keep below that. Lifting the front wheel on a vespa scooter is cool to see but highly impractical during normal commutes to work.
Lithium beats liquid dinosaurs.

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changeissimple   10 W

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Re: Kelly kls7230s- speed restriction?

Post by changeissimple » Aug 31 2018 6:33am

Would anyone in this topic be willing to help me through getting my qs205 kelly7230 combo motor angle auto identification. I've tried Many many times and exchanged over 70 emails with QS and no positive results. All equipment is brand new, shipped from qs direct to me. I've tried multiple throttles. And tested resistance on all connectors and halls. In need of help!!! A 5 minute FaceTime or video chat of my bench test and you might be able to help a desperate soul who has been struggling for over a month!!

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flippy   10 kW

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Re: Kelly kls7230s- speed restriction?

Post by flippy » Aug 31 2018 7:17am

changeissimple wrote:
Aug 31 2018 6:33am
Would anyone in this topic be willing to help me through getting my qs205 kelly7230 combo motor angle auto identification. I've tried Many many times and exchanged over 70 emails with QS and no positive results. All equipment is brand new, shipped from qs direct to me. I've tried multiple throttles. And tested resistance on all connectors and halls. In need of help!!! A 5 minute FaceTime or video chat of my bench test and you might be able to help a desperate soul who has been struggling for over a month!!
i have the same combo

you dont measure resistance on hall sensors, you measure voltage.

what is the exact fault? auto indent error or hall sensor error? what is the motor current (on the motor page, not the phase current) and battery specs?

did you try using the other halls?
Lithium beats liquid dinosaurs.

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changeissimple   10 W

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Re: Kelly kls7230s- speed restriction?

Post by changeissimple » Aug 31 2018 8:15am

flippy wrote:
Aug 31 2018 7:17am
changeissimple wrote:
Aug 31 2018 6:33am
Would anyone in this topic be willing to help me through getting my qs205 kelly7230 combo motor angle auto identification. I've tried Many many times and exchanged over 70 emails with QS and no positive results. All equipment is brand new, shipped from qs direct to me. I've tried multiple throttles. And tested resistance on all connectors and halls. In need of help!!! A 5 minute FaceTime or video chat of my bench test and you might be able to help a desperate soul who has been struggling for over a month!!
i have the same combo

you dont measure resistance on hall sensors, you measure voltage.

what is the exact fault? auto indent error or hall sensor error? what is the motor current (on the motor page, not the phase current) and battery specs?

did you try using the other halls?
I have measured the voltage as well and did try the other halls. QS has even had me take out the purple wire in the controller hall and insert red 11. I am getting auto ident error, hall sensor error, overtemp and low voltage errors.
I am using a 72v 18ah luna triangle battery (18650 panasonic GA cells) 50amp cont. 70amp max.
I am putting a 100amp fuse between battery and controller. like this one: https://photos.app.goo.gl/88Mr1ddyfZfqsg8n9

and I put this resistor right before the controller red line. https://photos.app.goo.gl/dELcS3rvmuTuDZpb6

I did create about 18" of wire extension using motor vehicle DC wire to connect battery XT90 plug to Kelly metal ring plug. https://photos.app.goo.gl/kEroF9bPvErtAXDF9 When I test battery voltage at the XT90 it is 79.3, then when i plug in that extension and test it at the metal ring connectors it is 79.3, when i plug it all in together it registers 79.3 BUT when i power on it does this:: https://photos.app.goo.gl/CKXtw9tvD79W2W5F6

Please note in that video the QS team has told me to change the phase wires so that is what i was recording, but you can see the voltage drop instantly and the LED on the throttle goes out, and when I measure the voltage at the connectors it is 3.5v. HOWEVER, that is a new thing, when I was previously trying to auto identify, the motor would turn a 1/32 turn in each direction and then do nothing. It never changed the motor angle back to 85, it always showed auto ident error and hall error. If i manually change back to 85 it shows overtemp and low voltage.

If you have any thoughts let me know. ALSO if you have any suggestions for equipment changes let me know. Thank you!

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flippy   10 kW

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Re: Kelly kls7230s- speed restriction?

Post by flippy » Aug 31 2018 8:29am

make screenshots of your settings. i think you messed up there.

also: remove the trottle and oll other junk from the controller. it is not needed for callibration. only hall sensors, and power on pink. nothing more. that includes the temp sensor.
set low voltage to 18v, high voltage to 90v.

show me the rest of the settings you have made in the controller.

ps: why are you using that massive controller with such a light battery? you will never be able to crank that controller up to its full potential.
Lithium beats liquid dinosaurs.

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changeissimple   10 W

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Re: Kelly kls7230s- speed restriction?

Post by changeissimple » Aug 31 2018 8:46am

The controller is what they sent with the motor. It was a package. I asked for what they recommended.
Also, tell me more about the temp sensor. I am unclear on that? I thought there was in internal temp sensor in the motor.

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flippy   10 kW

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Re: Kelly kls7230s- speed restriction?

Post by flippy » Aug 31 2018 9:20am

the controller is not set up. its that simple.

what motor did you buy exactly? what power rating?

please make dumps of the settings and post them. i can point out what you need to change.
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changeissimple   10 W

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Re: Kelly kls7230s- speed restriction?

Post by changeissimple » Aug 31 2018 9:56am

flippy wrote:
Aug 31 2018 9:20am
the controller is not set up. its that simple.

what motor did you buy exactly? what power rating?

please make dumps of the settings and post them. i can point out what you need to change.
The android shots of the settings are from a few weeks ago in initial attempts to get the motor auto identified. The computer screen shots are from today: https://photos.app.goo.gl/9KvjTsi62cnAnfSi9

Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!! Truly. - Patrick

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flippy   10 kW

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Re: Kelly kls7230s- speed restriction?

Post by flippy » Aug 31 2018 10:04am

changeissimple wrote:
Aug 31 2018 9:56am
flippy wrote:
Aug 31 2018 9:20am
the controller is not set up. its that simple.

what motor did you buy exactly? what power rating?

please make dumps of the settings and post them. i can point out what you need to change.
The android shots of the settings are from a few weeks ago in initial attempts to get the motor auto identified. The computer screen shots are from today: https://photos.app.goo.gl/9KvjTsi62cnAnfSi9

Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!! Truly. - Patrick
motor nominal current (last pic): set that to 80.
set temp sensor to 0.

battery limit to 30.
current percent can only be set to 100 if you have a 4kW motor, reduce to 80 if you have 3kW.
TPS forward map: 50.

dont connect the temp wire (white/transparent wire on the motor) to prevent that error.
Lithium beats liquid dinosaurs.

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changeissimple   10 W

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Re: Kelly kls7230s- speed restriction?

Post by changeissimple » Aug 31 2018 10:14am

That Temp wire connects to nothing on my KLS7230 hall sensor connector.
By the way I have a QS 205 3000W 50H V3 e-bike spoke hub motor.

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flippy   10 kW

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Re: Kelly kls7230s- speed restriction?

Post by flippy » Aug 31 2018 12:10pm

the temp sensor was enables but not connected gives a error.

make the above mentioned changes and try again.

for regular driving you should set the battery current limit to 25. your battery is way too puny to get anywere near the full power that is possible. even at 25 you are killing the cells. they cant handle that load. you can keep the motor current at 100, no way you are going to get actual 300A phase amps with that battery.
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changeissimple   10 W

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Re: Kelly kls7230s- speed restriction?

Post by changeissimple » Aug 31 2018 1:02pm

What do you recommend for a battery for a 125 sized motorcycle that I want for around town, no need to drag race, range over speed preference but would like 45mph. (I was getting 32mph and 30 miles on my 48v (18650) set up, so I upgraded to get my desired speed.) I don't have the knowledge to do my own battery build. Pretty good with electrical, but messing with Lipo frightens me! Anyone sell a powerful range oriented battery?
I am at work so I haven't had the chance to make those changes yet. Plus I think the controller is toast, it just keeps doing that voltage reduction thing and turning off. But i will as soon as i get home and report back.

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flippy   10 kW

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Re: Kelly kls7230s- speed restriction?

Post by flippy » Aug 31 2018 1:19pm

what range do you want? your controller and motor can deliver way more power then a 125 ever could, you just need the battery to "unlock" that potential.

with more range comes more power.
i would go into the 4kWh range or more. or just cram as much as you can possibly fit in the frame. more is better.

that means a S22P20 battery (charge to 4.05V max). quite manly but is capable of delivering the power you want with room to spare so your battery will live a long and happy life. should give about 35 miles of range at 45mph i guess and accelerate 0-40 in under 4 seconds depending on wheel size.

there are people in the US that can build the battery for you if you want. i can do it but shipping would be prohibitive from the EU.


and no, i dont think the controller is broken. you have a manly-mans motor. the kelly needs proper power to turn it but if you have the motor current limited to 30 it wont idenify correctly. set that to 80 or more. that value is ONLY used during identification.
Lithium beats liquid dinosaurs.

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