Tsdz2 firmware open source adapted to vlcd5

Electric Motors and Controllers
arkanum   10 µW

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Re: Tsdz2 firmware open source adapted to vlcd5

Post by arkanum » Aug 30 2019 1:54pm

btslo wrote:
Aug 30 2019 11:07am
arkanum wrote:
Aug 30 2019 10:39am
to be more precise .. :roll:

no error code is shown on the display. it works, lights on, battery state is low (wrong) and flickering and no speed is displayed. and the motor is not working.
You need to also flash the stock option byte: viewtopic.php?t=93818&start=1600#p1438745
Top! Thanks.
even more obvious. the option byte is also listet here: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders ... jMrpW2ZqvH
just not mentioned in the tutorial.

brobro   1 mW

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Re: Tsdz2 firmware open source adapted to vlcd5

Post by brobro » Sep 01 2019 4:18pm

elem wrote:
Aug 29 2019 12:34pm
When street mode enabled ( and activated ) it limit motor power to default 250W and speed to default 25km/h .

Boost mode can't be desactivated ...you choose " when cadence=0 or speed=0 " only, you can disable boost power limit or modifie it in concerned " motor power boost " .

eMTb default, mean you use eMTb mode ( kind of torque mode only ) and can modifie "eMTb mode " as desired .
disabled it mean you use "power mode " instead other mode .

" PWM duty cycle " is acceleration, and also in : current ramp, witch is an other kind of acceleration .

Soo, you'r using 14S battery ( 58.8V max ) and max power possible 1000w .

pay attention, you may burn you'r motor if you'r not using sensor temp, exepted if this power is only used in a few second .

here is my set up ( attached picture ) and my blog with some explanations ( in french ) : https://elementaire01.blogspot.com/2019 ... htmlconfig active aout 2019.jpg
Big thanks for the info, i didnt install the sensor yet, but i will, bought it already.

Do you know maybe some parameter in the config i can change
to get more power from the motor? With this config one member confirmed that stock firmware provides much more power.

danielson   1 mW

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Re: Tsdz2 firmware open source adapted to vlcd5

Post by danielson » Sep 02 2019 11:18pm

New to ebikes and this forum so not sure if this is the right place for this but hopefully someone will point me in the right direction.
I have purchased the TSDZ2 750w 52V motor from Ebird / Aliexpress and 52V 12.8ah from UPP which are in transit. I was hoping to achieve a cruising speed on the road of around 45kph with PAS. Was going to try the standard setup first but it sounds like updating the firmware is a good thing.
Can someone please advise what settings should be safe to run the motor on without frying it on both the standard firmware and the OSF and is 45kph realistic or to much to ask ?
Thanks
Dan

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Re: Tsdz2 firmware open source adapted to vlcd5

Post by wpenner » Sep 03 2019 11:26am

danielson wrote:
Sep 02 2019 11:18pm
New to ebikes and this forum so not sure if this is the right place for this but hopefully someone will point me in the right direction.
I have purchased the TSDZ2 750w 52V motor from Ebird / Aliexpress and 52V 12.8ah from UPP which are in transit. I was hoping to achieve a cruising speed on the road of around 45kph with PAS. Was going to try the standard setup first but it sounds like updating the firmware is a good thing.
Can someone please advise what settings should be safe to run the motor on without frying it on both the standard firmware and the OSF and is 45kph realistic or to much to ask ?
Thanks
Dan
You can get about 45kph. Depends on your gear ratio, and weight of rider/bike and type of tires. Yes flash it with this open source software. I just soldered/glued in a temperature sensor in mine yesterday. It was a bit of a pain, took me a few hours. Doing so will protect your motor from damage. The motor can sustain around 500watts safely, but depending on how hilly it is, you may be able to set it for 750+ watts.

Your motor might not work at all until you flash it with new firmware, as most of them will only start with a 48v battery. Default software on most will only startup the motor when battery voltage is below 55volts. 52v battery charges to 58.8volts.

You can not change the power limit on the default software. It is likely set for 15amps/750watts. You can instead ride on a lower assist level.

bergerandfries   10 mW

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Re: Tsdz2 firmware open source adapted to vlcd5

Post by bergerandfries » Sep 04 2019 1:35pm

wpenner wrote:
Sep 03 2019 11:26am

Your motor might not work at all until you flash it with new firmware, as most of them will only start with a 48v battery. Default software on most will only startup the motor when battery voltage is below 55volts. 52v battery charges to 58.8volts.

You can not change the power limit on the default software. It is likely set for 15amps/750watts. You can instead ride on a lower assist level.
I bought from the same supplier and mine worked fine out of the box with 58.8v charge on my battery...but I'd still install qmarco's software. Much better than the stock stuff.

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Aquakitty   100 W

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Re: Tsdz2 firmware open source adapted to vlcd5

Post by Aquakitty » Sep 04 2019 5:24pm

brobro wrote:
Sep 01 2019 4:18pm
elem wrote:
Aug 29 2019 12:34pm
When street mode enabled ( and activated ) it limit motor power to default 250W and speed to default 25km/h .

Boost mode can't be desactivated ...you choose " when cadence=0 or speed=0 " only, you can disable boost power limit or modifie it in concerned " motor power boost " .

eMTb default, mean you use eMTb mode ( kind of torque mode only ) and can modifie "eMTb mode " as desired .
disabled it mean you use "power mode " instead other mode .

" PWM duty cycle " is acceleration, and also in : current ramp, witch is an other kind of acceleration .

Soo, you'r using 14S battery ( 58.8V max ) and max power possible 1000w .

pay attention, you may burn you'r motor if you'r not using sensor temp, exepted if this power is only used in a few second .

here is my set up ( attached picture ) and my blog with some explanations ( in french ) : https://elementaire01.blogspot.com/2019 ... htmlconfig active aout 2019.jpg
Big thanks for the info, i didnt install the sensor yet, but i will, bought it already.

Do you know maybe some parameter in the config i can change
to get more power from the motor? With this config one member confirmed that stock firmware provides much more power.
On the stock firmware there is a setting labeled with an "A" that goes to "32" (this is in the "hidden" settings). This is the "power" setting, basically the motor is on full all the time. Set that along with 45kph limit. You have to be careful though as you can easily burn out the motor doing this.
Rans Enduro Sport w/Sturmey-Archer XFRD8, TSDZ2 open source mod 48v
GT Verb Comp f/s TSDZ2 open source 48v
Diadora Ampio bargain f/s TSDZ2 48v
2020 Diamant 247 belt drive 1000w 9C 48v
Hardtail made from random bits I had laying around, ginormous old Marzocchi fork, BBS02

danielson   1 mW

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Re: Tsdz2 firmware open source adapted to vlcd5

Post by danielson » Sep 05 2019 5:50am

Motor and battery have arrived and been fitted which took a lot longer than l anticipated as l had to do a bit of grinding to the rear mount and the plate to get it to fit properly. It was too close to the upright tube to get a bolt in at first.

Quite happy with the way it goes and seem to be able to cruise on around 42kph on flat ground with some effort.
It's working straight out of the box with a fully charged 52v battery. I noticed in the VLCD5 settings that I'm able to set the speed higher that 45kph does that mean l can get assist beyond 45 ? There is also an adjustment for the amps which I've set to 12, default was 16. The firmware shows as version 4.1 in the settings.

I don't have a temp sensor yet but seems okay on 12amps after a quick 6.5km ride with an average speed of 39kph.

What benefits will l get by upgrading the firmware ?
Dan

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Re: Tsdz2 firmware open source adapted to vlcd5

Post by wpenner » Sep 05 2019 9:44am

danielson wrote:
Sep 05 2019 5:50am
Motor and battery have arrived and been fitted which took a lot longer than l anticipated as l had to do a bit of grinding to the rear mount and the plate to get it to fit properly. It was too close to the upright tube to get a bolt in at first.

Quite happy with the way it goes and seem to be able to cruise on around 42kph on flat ground with some effort.
It's working straight out of the box with a fully charged 52v battery. I noticed in the VLCD5 settings that I'm able to set the speed higher that 45kph does that mean l can get assist beyond 45 ? There is also an adjustment for the amps which I've set to 12, default was 16. The firmware shows as version 4.1 in the settings.

I don't have a temp sensor yet but seems okay on 12amps after a quick 6.5km ride with an average speed of 39kph.

What benefits will l get by upgrading the firmware ?
Dan
Just to warn you I’m fairly sure the amp setting on the lcd does not change how much power the motor is using. Open software let’s you ride at a higher RPM in a lower gear. Also has softer startup that will save the internal blue gear. You also will not accidentally trigger the motor at stops as it does not startup until after the bike starts moving. This can also save the blue gear as you won’t accidentally run the motor from a stop when brakes are on.

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doomy   100 µW

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Re: Tsdz2 firmware open source adapted to vlcd5

Post by doomy » Sep 05 2019 10:02am

I tested the TSDZ2_Controller_vM0.16.D_and_TSDZ2_Configurator_Beta_0.2.0 firmware with a VLCD5:

When switching to street/offroad mode by pressing the lights/power button 2 times in eco mode it switched between modes (err03/err04) but there was no change and the motor always stopped working over 25km/h. I now disabled (street mode) to be able to go faster than 25kmh.

Throttle is not working with the open firmware (with the original it was ok). Is there maybe something wrong with my settings?

Otherwise it seems to run fine.

My settings (after disabling throttle and street mode):
tsdz_vlcd5.jpg
tsdz_vlcd5.jpg (405.68 KiB) Viewed 589 times

wpenner   10 W

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Re: Tsdz2 firmware open source adapted to vlcd5

Post by wpenner » Sep 05 2019 1:45pm

doomy wrote:
Sep 05 2019 10:02am
I tested the TSDZ2_Controller_vM0.16.D_and_TSDZ2_Configurator_Beta_0.2.0 firmware with a VLCD5:

When switching to street/offroad mode by pressing the lights/power button 2 times in eco mode it switched between modes (err03/err04) but there was no change and the motor always stopped working over 25km/h. I now disabled (street mode) to be able to go faster than 25kmh.

Throttle is not working with the open firmware (with the original it was ok). Is there maybe something wrong with my settings?

Otherwise it seems to run fine.

My settings (after disabling throttle and street mode):

tsdz_vlcd5.jpg
There are two boxes under "street mode" in the configuration. one is km/h limit and one is power limit. In your screen shot they are 25km/h and 250watts

There is a "Throttle" check box on the right side of the configuration that you need to check if you want to use throttle. Below the word VLDC6.

emr   100 mW

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Re: Tsdz2 firmware open source adapted to vlcd5

Post by emr » Sep 05 2019 5:41pm

doomy wrote:
Sep 05 2019 10:02am
I tested the TSDZ2_Controller_vM0.16.D_and_TSDZ2_Configurator_Beta_0.2.0 firmware with a VLCD5:

When switching to street/offroad mode by pressing the lights/power button 2 times in eco mode it switched between modes (err03/err04) but there was no change and the motor always stopped working over 25km/h. I now disabled (street mode) to be able to go faster than 25kmh.

Throttle is not working with the open firmware (with the original it was ok). Is there maybe something wrong with my settings?

Otherwise it seems to run fine.

My settings (after disabling throttle and street mode):

tsdz_vlcd5.jpg
I found that the suggested 'Hold lights button for 2 seconds' did not work for me. The process I use...
Turn on display and wait for it to load
Leave power setting on Eco
Press the lights button once (short press) and you will see E03 (Turns off street mode)
Press lights button again (short press) and display returns to standard view

I believe the above is correct, but do your own testing to confirm, and let us know your results.

I had the same experience with the Throttle, in that although it did work, but it is either On or Off. There is no graduation of power delivery. I have fitted the temp sensor now, so no throttle anyway, I also don't think the throttle is really required.

brobro   1 mW

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Re: Tsdz2 firmware open source adapted to vlcd5

Post by brobro » Sep 06 2019 2:37am

Aquakitty wrote:
Sep 04 2019 5:24pm
On the stock firmware there is a setting labeled with an "A" that goes to "32" (this is in the "hidden" settings). This is the "power" setting, basically the motor is on full all the time. Set that along with 45kph limit. You have to be careful though as you can easily burn out the motor doing this.
Got it now, thank you for explaining :flame:

Another one question to you guys...

Image

Does it means that 500% is max assistance and i use just 300 in turbo mode ( 60% of max power of the motor) ? It is obvious to be "yes", but! Most of the people use 300%, why?)

Also with this config, there no difference between 2 and 3 assistance level. It is 100% same on feelings, usually i ride with 2nd level, but sometimes want more, push 3rd level - no difference, 4th - and it gives much more power. Someone know why it is like that? The mode is default ( emtb )

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elem   100 W

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Re: Tsdz2 firmware open source adapted to vlcd5

Post by elem » Sep 06 2019 1:29pm

power mode mean cadence*torque = X
500% mean : 500% of X .

the bigger is %, the easier to get max power from motor .

max power is 18A*voltage .

boost mode for me is 220% and it's suffisant ( for me )
max power i'm using is 550W, max ampere i'm using with 10S battery is 15A
that's my set up .

here without eMTB enabled ( just for the picture, in fact i'm using eMTB mode )

Image

look this video :


at level 2 mode i'm 0.6 ( egal 60% )
motor power is upper right side
human power is lower middle
RockRider 9.1 TSDZ2 open source firmware .

brobro   1 mW

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Re: Tsdz2 firmware open source adapted to vlcd5

Post by brobro » Sep 07 2019 2:09am

Why it is so hard for me to understand it :lol:

Thanks a lot!

I just have understood that boost mode is just "extra" option which work together with main mode. Before i thought that it is separate mode :lol:

For example, i turn on the motor, and default mode is emtb ( i guess ). And assist level is set to "1". I'm correct?

If i set level to "2" i'm still with emtb mode but with more assist?

If i set level to "3" or "4" it increase assist help for current emtb mode?

For some reason i don't have any difference on assist between "2" and "3" assist level, it is confusing me.


And finally, maybe :o , i understood about MODES.

For real it has just 2 real modes.

1. EMTB MODE ( according to your torque )
2. NORMAL MODE ( according to cadence? ) and this mode start work if we disable emtb mode.

STREET/OFFROAD is just like "LIMIT POWER AND SPEED / DO NOT LIMIT POWER AND SPEED"

BOOST MODE is just level of help on your start.


Image

So if i will set here

50
120
300
500

I will have full range of power, and maybe some difference between 2 and 3 level.

Please if my understanding is wrong somewhere can you correct it please. I searched a lot but all the info is not clear at all for newbies. I hope this also will be helpfull for others tsdz2 newbies.

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elem   100 W

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Re: Tsdz2 firmware open source adapted to vlcd5

Post by elem » Sep 07 2019 9:28am

i was wrong when i used " boost mode ", in fact the right name is " turbo mode " .
so you have eco/tour/speed ( or eMTB if activated )/turbo ( not boost )

boost is a feature

eMTB is torque based only
all mode are "power mode " based, witch mean combinaison of cadence and torque .

the % don't affect the motor power, only sensibility of the torque, soo if you'r strong pedaling at level 2 ( 120% ) you'll be able to get the max power avaiable .

max power is 100% in many case, extra % make only an easier way to get this power ....

if you don't use eMTB mode
and want max sensibility use : 50/80/160/320 for example ....

at startup defaut mode is eco witch isn't an eMTB mode, only speed mode could be an EMTB mode, all other mode are power mode .
RockRider 9.1 TSDZ2 open source firmware .

brobro   1 mW

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Re: Tsdz2 firmware open source adapted to vlcd5

Post by brobro » Sep 07 2019 1:02pm

Wow! So there no assist level for emtb mode?! It is like valuable depends on your pedaling power.

So maybe this is a reason why i didnt have difference between 2nd and 3rd level on the display. I thought it will increase motor power. Instead of this i just turned on an EMTB mode and it worked according to my legs.

All other 3 modes ( levels on the display ) are power modes, got it now.

And here the new question...

On my feelings 1st, 2nd mode don't provide all the power. If this is really can be, what is the difference with emtb mode? If all of them can provide all the power?

And TURBO mode, if i have 300%, it is just sensivity level and if i will set 500% i will not have more power, just it will be easier to rich it.

In this case is there any mode which can limit the power to some value ( except street mode ).

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elem   100 W

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Re: Tsdz2 firmware open source adapted to vlcd5

Post by elem » Sep 07 2019 2:49pm

Wow! So there no assist level for emtb mode?! It is like valuable depends on your pedaling power.

yes but you can customize the eMTB mode ( by changing some values ....)

So maybe this is a reason why i didnt have difference between 2nd and 3rd level on the display. I thought it will increase motor power. Instead of this i just turned on an EMTB mode and it worked according to my legs.


yes, the first time i tried eMTB mode ( with default parameters ) instead of "speed " mode i found it was harder to get power with "eMTB" mode than with "tour " mode, soo i modified some parameter to have it working of my own need .

On my feelings 1st, 2nd mode don't provide all the power. If this is really can be, what is the difference with emtb mode? If all of them can provide all the power?

yes, it could be hard to have full power even if "tour " mode is a 120%, or you'r a king of superman like froome or other guys like that
in fact it's very hard to go to full torque, i thinck that instead of 100% you need at least a value of 150% to easyly acces to full power strongly pedaling, depend how you'r torque sensor is calibrated, there is some minor difference betwen each motor .

And TURBO mode, if i have 300%, it is just sensivity level and if i will set 500% i will not have more power, just it will be easier to rich it.

yes you'r right .

In this case is there any mode which can limit the power to some value ( except street mode ).

each mode limit the power exepted those upper 150% ( depend your force and the calibration of you'r torque sensor, also for power mode depend the rpm you'r pedaling, best result from 60 rpm to 85 rpm ) .

you can't limit each mode to a predefine power, only the max power of the system, the power depend of how you'r pedaling, only .
RockRider 9.1 TSDZ2 open source firmware .

brobro   1 mW

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Re: Tsdz2 firmware open source adapted to vlcd5

Post by brobro » Sep 08 2019 12:21pm

Thanks a lot to your dear Elem, now all the settings and "workflow" become absolutely clear for me. I hope this info will be pretty useful for newbies because now we have all the info in one place. :bigthumb: :bigthumb: :bigthumb:

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elem   100 W

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Re: Tsdz2 firmware open source adapted to vlcd5

Post by elem » Sep 09 2019 4:47am

Actually is easier for me to change parameters in "official" OSF firmware using LCD3 display,
more easy to undestand witch parameters i have to modifie to get the best of eMTb mode .

As each time i want to test something i need to flash firmware .

i will share my set up asap,
where i go i don't need to much power but agility first soo i'm traying to improve it .

For exemple in OSF using LCD3, boost feature is disabled for me, in marcoq achievment, it isn't possible, only minoring it .

But in marcoq OSF it's stable v0.19 witch is used and i'm using V0.20 alpha OSF ( with my other bike ), may some improvment from V0.19 to V0.20, it's seem V0.20 work perfectly for my need .

have fun, carpe diem .
RockRider 9.1 TSDZ2 open source firmware .

Badmotor   1 µW

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Re: Tsdz2 firmware open source adapted to vlcd5

Post by Badmotor » Sep 09 2019 5:19am

Guys, I have read this whole thread and I am going to soon try to flash my controller as well. However my goal is clear - to squeeze out as much power and assist as possible with as little pedaling effort as possible (in fact I would prefer no torque dependence at all ) and no overheating. I ordered a temperature sensor but it will take time to receive, so for now I want to just make safe improvements but not push it to the point of failure without temperature control.

My motor is 36v 350w and battery is 36v 12ah.

Here's a few questions if any of you could possibly clarify:

1. If I understand correctly, maximum power the controller could provide is 36V x 18A = 648W - is it safe to put this value into the configurator as max battery power?

2. Power assist modes, what is the maximum safest values I can put so it doesn't overheat?

3. Motor pull factor - same thing here. How high can I set it safely?

4. What is experimental high cadence mode? Will it provide more assist?

5. How does assistance without pedal rotation work? Is it similar to throttle or walk mode?

In the first pages some people have tried firmware version 0.18D and C, and claimed version D is the one that made pedaling effortless and motor became too energetic. That's exactly what I would like. But I am not sure if it's wise to use old versions as they may have bugs that are corrected in version 0.19 C ? But more importantly, do I even have to make my own changes in the configurator and then flash, or can I simply use the file from the 'releases' folder and flash it directly to the motor?

Thanks in advance for the answers. :bigthumb:

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elem   100 W

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Re: Tsdz2 firmware open source adapted to vlcd5

Post by elem » Sep 09 2019 1:18pm

Motor safer for long is 10A ...
no one use this parameter .
If you need to get max power for a short time let 18A max and 700W max ...

all other default parameter will work fine for your use .

5. How does assistance without pedal rotation work? Is it similar to throttle or walk mode?

this mean as soon as torque sensor detect a push on pedals, motor work, no need to rotate pedal, only push it ( dangerous without brake sensor ) .
RockRider 9.1 TSDZ2 open source firmware .

danielson   1 mW

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Re: Tsdz2 firmware open source adapted to vlcd5

Post by danielson » Sep 10 2019 3:11am

[/quote]

Just to warn you I’m fairly sure the amp setting on the lcd does not change how much power the motor is using. Open software let’s you ride at a higher RPM in a lower gear. Also has softer startup that will save the internal blue gear. You also will not accidentally trigger the motor at stops as it does not startup until after the bike starts moving. This can also save the blue gear as you won’t accidentally run the motor from a stop when brakes are on.
[/quote]

You are correct about the amp settings, I tried lowering it to 5 and could feel no difference.
Overall I am quite happy with the way it is working out of the box, I have 4 different power levels and can cruise at around 42kph on flat ground. I am making sure not to load the motr to much by changing gears on inclines and listing to the revs of the motor to keep it high. I have a small digital thermometre on the way as well but may try the LMT35 down the track. More information on the screen would be nice nut realise I need a different display for that.
I have been trying to get everything in order for an update when my ST link arrives but the process seems to do my head in a bit.
Am I able to backup the current firmware in the controller which is V4.1 and roll back to it if I don't like or have issues with the OSF ?
Sorry if my questions are daft - just trying to cover everything.
Dan

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Re: Tsdz2 firmware open source adapted to vlcd5

Post by Badmotor » Sep 10 2019 3:33am

elem wrote:
Sep 09 2019 1:18pm
Motor safer for long is 10A ...
no one use this parameter .
If you need to get max power for a short time let 18A max and 700W max ...

all other default parameter will work fine for your use .

5. How does assistance without pedal rotation work? Is it similar to throttle or walk mode?

this mean as soon as torque sensor detect a push on pedals, motor work, no need to rotate pedal, only push it ( dangerous without brake sensor ) .
I see, what about "experimental high cadence mode"? What does it do? Increase RPM ?

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elem   100 W

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Re: Tsdz2 firmware open source adapted to vlcd5

Post by elem » Sep 10 2019 4:22am

what about "experimental high cadence mode"? What does it do? Increase RPM ?

Yes worked fine with 36V ( hitting easily 110 rpm ) , don t work for my 48V motor .
RockRider 9.1 TSDZ2 open source firmware .

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Re: Tsdz2 firmware open source adapted to vlcd5

Post by arkanum » Sep 11 2019 3:03am

hi, i´m really having a hard time configuring the software through the configurator as responsive and agile as i comes by default in casahino/buba versions.

I wanted to minimized (already even deactivated) the soft start. and reduced the PWM ramp dw to 0.5. but the result, for my taste, is still a too soft acceleration and, more important, a delay of stopping - takes too long. running an Alfine, it wont shift until you really have to stop pedalling for some time..

Any suggestions to get a more instant reaction?

Cheers.

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