Tsdz2 firmware open source adapted to vlcd5

Electric Motors and Controllers
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elem   100 W

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Re: Tsdz2 firmware open source adapted to vlcd5

Post by elem » Sep 11 2019 11:41am

i use :
soft start 3
K soft start 0.350

PWN duty cycle up 1.1
PWN duty cycle down 1.1

it's not perfect but better than default set up, haven't any time to test more this time .
RockRider 9.1 TSDZ2 open source firmware .

arkanum   10 µW

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Re: Tsdz2 firmware open source adapted to vlcd5

Post by arkanum » Sep 12 2019 1:46am

maybe i have to play more with the motor power boost parameters.
do you know how it interferes with the soft start?

wpenner   10 W

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Re: Tsdz2 firmware open source adapted to vlcd5

Post by wpenner » Sep 13 2019 3:37pm

Just a warning.

Twice now I've had my bike continuously accelerate after i stopped peddling. I believe this to be a software glitch, as bike worked fine once power cycled.

I do not have ebrakes installed. They might have helped me stop the bike instead of having to stall the motor with my brakes while trying to hold the power button. Using an older version 3.5 config but glitch could exist in newer releases also.

flufferty   10 mW

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Re: Tsdz2 firmware open source adapted to vlcd5

Post by flufferty » Sep 13 2019 4:21pm

wpenner wrote:
Sep 13 2019 3:37pm
Just a warning.

Twice now I've had my bike continuously accelerate after i stopped peddling. I believe this to be a software glitch, as bike worked fine once power cycled.

I do not have ebrakes installed. They might have helped me stop the bike instead of having to stall the motor with my brakes while trying to hold the power button. Using an older version 3.5 config but glitch could exist in newer releases also.
I have experienced the same thing with earlier version, but not with the latest (0.3.7).
Luckily I have a switch on the battery for on/off, but if caught off-guard.. jeesh.

Elinx   10 W

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Re: Tsdz2 firmware open source adapted to vlcd5

Post by Elinx » Sep 14 2019 4:04am

flufferty wrote:
Sep 13 2019 4:21pm
wpenner wrote:
Sep 13 2019 3:37pm
..............
Twice now I've had my bike continuously accelerate after i stopped peddling. I believe this to be a software glitch, as bike worked fine once power cycled...............
I have experienced the same thing with earlier version, but not with the latest (0.3.7)...................
In the latest version 3.7 - M.0.19C Marcoq has explicit repaired this bug that is mentioned here . You find that version there too.
(Italian translated to English)
Last edited by Elinx on Sep 26 2019 5:33pm, edited 3 times in total.

danielson   10 mW

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Re: Tsdz2 firmware open source adapted to vlcd5

Post by danielson » Sep 15 2019 5:19am

wpenner wrote:
Sep 13 2019 3:37pm
Just a warning.

Twice now I've had my bike continuously accelerate after i stopped peddling. I believe this to be a software glitch, as bike worked fine once power cycled.

I do not have ebrakes installed. They might have helped me stop the bike instead of having to stall the motor with my brakes while trying to hold the power button. Using an older version 3.5 config but glitch could exist in newer releases also.
I've had similar with my standard software but only at very low power and as l pulled up to open gate the bike wanted to continue creeping forward. I have a brake switch on the rear and pulling it in deactivated the motor.

Elinx   10 W

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Re: Tsdz2 firmware open source adapted to vlcd5

Post by Elinx » Sep 15 2019 6:41am

danielson wrote:
Sep 15 2019 5:19am
I've had similar with my standard software but only at very low power and as l pulled up to open gate the bike wanted to continue creeping forward........
Is that maybe the "walking assist" you had enabled in some way ?
I think that OpenSource software is so very different of the default software that it must be another reason.
But in both cases an ebrake is the best way to stop the motor.

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Re: Tsdz2 firmware open source adapted to vlcd5

Post by wpenner » Sep 15 2019 5:26pm

Elinx wrote:
Sep 14 2019 4:04am
flufferty wrote:
Sep 13 2019 4:21pm
wpenner wrote:
Sep 13 2019 3:37pm
..............
Twice now I've had my bike continuously accelerate after i stopped peddling. I believe this to be a software glitch, as bike worked fine once power cycled...............
I have experienced the same thing with earlier version, but not with the latest (0.3.7)...................
In the latest version 3.7 - M.0.19C Marcoq has explicit repaired this bug that is mentioned here . You find that version there too.
(Italian translated to English)
Thanks, I'll update to a newer version.

Ackmaniac   10 mW

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Re: Tsdz2 firmware open source adapted to vlcd5

Post by Ackmaniac » Sep 16 2019 3:00pm

What most people don't really understand is how the heat in the motor is generated.
It is not the battery amps. It's the motor amps. And they are dependend on the duty cycle.
I think the TSDZ2 is normally set to a max of 32 A at the motor. So if you change the battery current you can still reach 32A at a but lower than max speed.
Here is a example of 32A motor, 18A battery and theoretical max speed of 50 km/h.
2019-09-16 21_59_35-Book1 - Excel.jpg
2019-09-16 21_59_35-Book1 - Excel.jpg (20.86 KiB) Viewed 975 times
And here a picture of 32A motor, 12A battery and theoretical max speed of 50 km/h.
2019-09-16 22_02_40-Book1 - Excel.jpg
2019-09-16 22_02_40-Book1 - Excel.jpg (19.12 KiB) Viewed 974 times
You can see that a sped of 20 km/h (like uphill) you can still reach max motor amps.

Of course it also depends on the selected gear but if you really want to prevent taht the mpotor can overheat it would be smart to reduce the motor amps.
Because the generated heat is squared for motor amps. So at 15A at the motor you generate 4 times less heat than at 30A.

Just out of curiosity i am currently working on a modified version where where the controller regulates the motor amps instead of the battery amps. Because motor amps means torque. And this should behave the same at any speed. While watts are a totally different thing at different speeds. The firmware does already kind of the same thing but it is dependend on the cadence. I hope that with the direct control of the motor amps the feeling becomes a bit more natural.

Ackmaniac   10 mW

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Re: Tsdz2 firmware open source adapted to vlcd5

Post by Ackmaniac » Sep 19 2019 5:04am

Modified the firmware to motor amps control and results are nice. Motor feels more connected, which means it follows your input even better.
Downside is that the more the motor follows your input the less you recognize that the motor assist you. Especially on the lower levels. You need to switch off the motor to realize that he is there.

But i am still improving the software.
For example
- fixing the duty cycle adjustment as it can cause problems with very fast ramping times.
- trying to use the full range of the torque sensor adc, because it recognizes only a max of 32 different values in the current source code.
- When you don't pedal anymore motor should switch off faster. Especially on high assist levels this is annoying when you want to change gear.

Nfer   10 mW

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Re: Tsdz2 firmware open source adapted to vlcd5

Post by Nfer » Sep 19 2019 8:16am

Hi, I just flashed the tsdz2 with vlcd5 and I have a couple questions:
1. How is the walk assist activated from the display?
2. I only enabled the street mode by default in the java configurator. No emblem mode. Pressing the light I got the E03 error but not sure if that means that disabled the street mode

flufferty   10 mW

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Re: Tsdz2 firmware open source adapted to vlcd5

Post by flufferty » Sep 19 2019 8:46am

Ackmaniac wrote:
Sep 19 2019 5:04am
Modified the firmware to motor amps control and results are nice. Motor feels more connected, which means it follows your input even better.
Downside is that the more the motor follows your input the less you recognize that the motor assist you. Especially on the lower levels. You need to switch off the motor to realize that he is there.

But i am still improving the software.
For example
- fixing the duty cycle adjustment as it can cause problems with very fast ramping times.
- trying to use the full range of the torque sensor adc, because it recognizes only a max of 32 different values in the current source code.
- When you don't pedal anymore motor should switch off faster. Especially on high assist levels this is annoying when you want to change gear.
Sounds really interesting, is your source public somewhere?
And are these changes that could benefit the main project as well? (I assume it's based on marcoq fork now?)

Ackmaniac   10 mW

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Re: Tsdz2 firmware open source adapted to vlcd5

Post by Ackmaniac » Sep 19 2019 9:01am

I will fork and make it public once i have it ready.

marcoq   1 W

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Re: Tsdz2 firmware open source adapted to vlcd5

Post by marcoq » Sep 19 2019 2:51pm

Ackmaniac wrote:
Sep 19 2019 9:01am
I will fork and make it public once i have it ready.
Well done Ackmaniac .... I will wait for the release of your firmware version! :bigthumb:

Nfer   10 mW

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Re: Tsdz2 firmware open source adapted to vlcd5

Post by Nfer » Sep 20 2019 10:47am

Nfer wrote:
Sep 19 2019 8:16am
Hi, I just flashed the tsdz2 with vlcd5 and I have a couple questions:
1. How is the walk assist activated from the display?
2. I only enabled the street mode by default in the java configurator. No emblem mode. Pressing the light I got the E03 error but not sure if that means that disabled the street mode
1. the walk assist is activated pressing the "-"
2. Not sure if E04 references to the default mode (street mode in my case) or always to the OFFROAD mode
3. The throttle does not work. is the throttle disable on the street mode?

Chewy   1 mW

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Re: Tsdz2 firmware open source adapted to vlcd5

Post by Chewy » Sep 21 2019 1:52am

Does anyone know the stock low voltage cut off is set at?

Hypermobile   1 µW

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Re: Tsdz2 firmware open source adapted to vlcd5

Post by Hypermobile » Sep 21 2019 12:17pm

Nfer wrote:
Sep 20 2019 10:47am
Nfer wrote:
Sep 19 2019 8:16am
Hi, I just flashed the tsdz2 with vlcd5 and I have a couple questions:
1. How is the walk assist activated from the display?
2. I only enabled the street mode by default in the java configurator. No emblem mode. Pressing the light I got the E03 error but not sure if that means that disabled the street mode
1. the walk assist is activated pressing the "-"
2. Not sure if E04 references to the default mode (street mode in my case) or always to the OFFROAD mode
3. The throttle does not work. is the throttle disable on the street mode?
Mine is set to street when i switch the display ON.
I click 2 time the Power Button. (in eco mode)
>first click i see E4 + lights on (checked the Lights as well, so it switches back to speedo automatically)
>2nd click the Speedo is back (lights off).

Should be
Eco mode toggles:
E3 - Street mode (limited to 25kmh and 250w)
E4 - Offroad mode

Tour mode toggles:
E01 - Boostoff
E05 - Boost on

Sport mode toggles:
E01 - Emtb mode off
E02 - Emtb mode on


the only thing i don't know how to activate is Cruise Control. (assistance without pedaling)
Now i use the Eco Level 1 Walk assist...
I've set is to 75% PWM with an off delay of 6500 seconds. (E-brake installed)

Nfer   10 mW

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Re: Tsdz2 firmware open source adapted to vlcd5

Post by Nfer » Sep 21 2019 8:25pm

Hypermobile wrote:
Sep 21 2019 12:17pm
Nfer wrote:
Sep 20 2019 10:47am
Nfer wrote:
Sep 19 2019 8:16am
Hi, I just flashed the tsdz2 with vlcd5 and I have a couple questions:
1. How is the walk assist activated from the display?
2. I only enabled the street mode by default in the java configurator. No emblem mode. Pressing the light I got the E03 error but not sure if that means that disabled the street mode
1. the walk assist is activated pressing the "-"
2. Not sure if E04 references to the default mode (street mode in my case) or always to the OFFROAD mode
3. The throttle does not work. is the throttle disable on the street mode?
Mine is set to street when i switch the display ON.
I click 2 time the Power Button. (in eco mode)
>first click i see E4 + lights on (checked the Lights as well, so it switches back to speedo automatically)
>2nd click the Speedo is back (lights off).

Should be
Eco mode toggles:
E3 - Street mode (limited to 25kmh and 250w)
E4 - Offroad mode

Tour mode toggles:
E01 - Boostoff
E05 - Boost on

Sport mode toggles:
E01 - Emtb mode off
E02 - Emtb mode on


the only thing i don't know how to activate is Cruise Control. (assistance without pedaling)
Now i use the Eco Level 1 Walk assist...
I've set is to 75% PWM with an off delay of 6500 seconds. (E-brake installed)
Thanks

danielson   10 mW

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Re: Tsdz2 firmware open source adapted to vlcd5

Post by danielson » Sep 23 2019 12:17am

I have managed to flash the firmware and update and all is working well but I have a few questions regarding the modes.
I have been using the below from ashrambo as a guide.

VLCD5 and VLCD6 SCREENS
functions :
DEFAULT PARAMETERS -> E02 (Level 0)
STREET MODE ENABLED -> E03 (Level 1)
OFFROAD MODE ENABLED -> E04 (Level 1)
BOOST MODE ENABLED -> E05 (Level 2)
BOOST MODE DISABLED -> E01 (Level 2)
EMTB MODE ENABLED -> E02 (Level 3)
EMTB MODE DISABLED -> E01 (Level 3)

I have a little trouble switching and differentiating between the different modes as I only only have to turn the light on and things seem to change but something I should work out in time.

Street mode is obvious as is boost enabled.

Are the default parameters the same as EMTB Mode enabled if not what values do they relate to ? I am a unsure about this information from ashrambo with the assistance level 0 selected: (E02 = DEFAULT ON). Reset all modes to default settings ??

I guess the offroad values are the values setup when EMTB is disabled but again not sure ?

Is the max power available derived from the Max Battery Power (Watts) value or the Max Battery Current Source (Amps) value or is it a combination of both ?

My Configurator is below, thinking of changing the values in street mode to around 500 watts and 45kph to make a useful mode that has a lower current draw.

Image

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elem   100 W

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Re: Tsdz2 firmware open source adapted to vlcd5

Post by elem » Sep 23 2019 4:01am

Is the max power available derived from the Max Battery Power (Watts) value or the Max Battery Current Source (Amps) value or is it a combination of both ?

max power is from ; max battery current source ( amp )
RockRider 9.1 TSDZ2 open source firmware .

danielson   10 mW

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Re: Tsdz2 firmware open source adapted to vlcd5

Post by danielson » Sep 23 2019 4:37am

Thanks.
I set Street mode to 500w and Max speed of 45kph and l couldn't seem to tell the difference between E03 and E04 in level 1. Heat also seemed about the same getting to around 63°C on my 8km ride home from work using speed and turbo modes. I'm running a small stand alone temperature gauge with the probe inside the case between the motor and controller.

Does EMTB mode need to be disabled (E01 in level 3) for other modes to work correctly ?

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Re: Tsdz2 firmware open source adapted to vlcd5

Post by Nfer » Sep 23 2019 3:24pm

I have not found the soft start timeout 1/10s parameters on the tdsz2 OSF wikihttps://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... ion-0.19.X
Is this a feature available on the marcoq configurator?

I use the motor on a commuter bike and the default 20 value (2s) for the soft start timeout is way too long when I try to go ahead of the car after a red light. I would like the motor to kick in faster but I am not sure if this could hurt the blue gear.
What do you guys use? I see several of you with 0.3 s.

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elem   100 W

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Re: Tsdz2 firmware open source adapted to vlcd5

Post by elem » Sep 24 2019 12:25am

Yes, it s how you can change soft start time out ...

i m using 3 and 0.350
soft start du 02-08.jpg
soft start du 02-08.jpg (14.17 KiB) Viewed 632 times
some informations there .
RockRider 9.1 TSDZ2 open source firmware .

Nfer   10 mW

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Re: Tsdz2 firmware open source adapted to vlcd5

Post by Nfer » Sep 24 2019 4:10pm

Thanks elem!
I went through the marcoq post on the italian forum looking for any explanation of the k factor and soft start.
This what I found (google translation) and I still don't get it. It isn't clear to me his description of the k soft factor.
For the soft start the K factor is indispensable because it determines the slope of the starting ramp starting from the initial soft start assist value ... the soft start timeout sets the maximum assistance value for the selected level at the end of the timeout.
If you used only the time (time ramp) to determine the ramp up, for very soft increments I would have to set very long times ... of the order of tens of seconds ... while with this management it is possible to have a soft ramp for some tenths of a second and then reach the level of assistance at full speed in a few seconds ... it is not a straight line that passes through 2 min and max point
There are 3 parameters:
Initial soft start assist value
Soft start timeout (1/10)
K soft start factor

This is what I think. I hope marcoq or anyone correct me if I am wrong:

From power 0 to "Initial soft start assist value" the motor follows the k soft start factor line in X seconds. After that the motor will go "from Initial soft start assist value" to the assistance level value (eco,tour, sport, turbo) in [Soft start timeout (1/10)-X] seconds.

In addition to this soft start is the startup boost power with boost time and boost fade. Do you guys know when and how the boost kicks in at the start and how it is related to the soft start?

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elem   100 W

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Re: Tsdz2 firmware open source adapted to vlcd5

Post by elem » Sep 25 2019 12:56am

In addition to this soft start is the startup boost power with boost time and boost fade. Do you guys know when and how the boost kicks in at the start and how it is related to the soft start?

i thinck it s relative to the "K soft start factor", anyway i changed "motor power boost " defaut parameter to lower boost feature .
70/50/35/20 ...2/2.5
RockRider 9.1 TSDZ2 open source firmware .

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