PV NextGen FOC 130v 200/600A 25kw - $599, Watch Display

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Re: PV NextGen FOC 130v 200/600A 25kw - $599, Watch Display

Post by Powervelocity.com » Oct 16 2020 7:28pm

The hardware is capable of running AC induction motors and it's already capable of running them in the open loop mode. Running AC motors in FOC would be a matter of software update. I think there is a change that such support will be added in the near future.

However, considering the target application for this controller which is all sorts of EVs, AC motors will generally be less desirable compared to PM motors because the latter win in size, weight, and efficiency. Tesla, despite its name, has been moving away from AC motors for a good reason. IPM motors just make more sense.

Encoders are already supported.
parabellum wrote:
Oct 15 2020 10:34pm
Are there plans for this controller running ACIM algorithms and taking sine cosine resolver or encoder input?

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Re: PV NextGen FOC 130v 200/600A 25kw - $599, Watch Display

Post by parabellum » Oct 16 2020 9:43pm

Powervelocity.com wrote:
Oct 16 2020 7:28pm
IPM motors just make more sense.


Can you recommend some IPM motor that can take 25KW and works well with your controller? (I suppose it works with backwards "field weakening" logic of IPM)
Running AC motors in FOC would be a matter of software update.
Thanks, in my understanding, when/if vesk gets full closed loop support to ACIM, you can include it in a update. Right?

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Re: PV NextGen FOC 130v 200/600A 25kw - $599, Watch Display

Post by Powervelocity.com » Oct 17 2020 12:23pm

We have had good results testing IPM motors so far. As an example, a QS middrive motor tested well. Some can take 25kw bursts. They seem to be mostly IPM now, but I would make sure before buying. There is no reason why other more expensive IPM motors wouldn't work.

There is at least a couple of implementations leveraging field reluctance for VESC fw. One is Maximum Torque Per Amp (MTPA) that seems most interesting. Here is more on it: https://hackaday.io/project/164932-axio ... -into-vesc

I am planning on adding this feature in the next firmware update.


parabellum wrote:
Oct 16 2020 9:43pm
Powervelocity.com wrote:
Oct 16 2020 7:28pm
IPM motors just make more sense.


Can you recommend some IPM motor that can take 25KW and works well with your controller? (I suppose it works with backwards "field weakening" logic of IPM)
Running AC motors in FOC would be a matter of software update.
Thanks, in my understanding, when/if vesk gets full closed loop support to ACIM, you can include it in a update. Right?

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Re: PV NextGen FOC 130v 200/600A 25kw - $599, Watch Display

Post by Hertzelz » Oct 17 2020 4:15pm

Powervelocity.com wrote:
Oct 17 2020 12:23pm
We have had good results testing IPM motors so far. As an example, a QS middrive motor tested well. Some can take 25kw bursts. They seem to be mostly IPM now, but I would make sure before buying. There is no reason why other more expensive IPM motors wouldn't work.

There is at least a couple of implementations leveraging field reluctance for VESC fw. One is Maximum Torque Per Amp (MTPA) that seems most interesting. Here is more on it: https://hackaday.io/project/164932-axio ... -into-vesc

I am planning on adding this feature in the next firmware update.


parabellum wrote:
Oct 16 2020 9:43pm
Powervelocity.com wrote:
Oct 16 2020 7:28pm
IPM motors just make more sense.


Can you recommend some IPM motor that can take 25KW and works well with your controller? (I suppose it works with backwards "field weakening" logic of IPM)
Running AC motors in FOC would be a matter of software update.
Thanks, in my understanding, when/if vesk gets full closed loop support to ACIM, you can include it in a update. Right?
When you think I could order? and when it should be shipped?

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Re: PV NextGen FOC 130v 200/600A 25kw - $599, Watch Display

Post by parabellum » Oct 17 2020 5:51pm

Powervelocity.com wrote:
Oct 17 2020 12:23pm
One is Maximum Torque Per Amp (MTPA) that seems most interesting. Here is more on it: https://hackaday.io/project/164932-axio ... -into-vesc

I am planning on adding this feature in the next firmware update.
Cool, I didn't know Axiom is working on VESC and MTPA seems to be next evolution step, for IPM at least. Thanks!
I have 2 spare ACIM motors on the shelf right now, but will look around for IPM to.

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Re: PV NextGen FOC 130v 200/600A 25kw - $599, Watch Display

Post by TorgueRPM » Oct 18 2020 8:23pm

Powervelocity.com wrote:
Oct 16 2020 11:35am
In theory, it should work. Over CAN, the motors are synced with understanding that they are on different axles with ability to control traction. I think it would be best, however, to implement the exact logic that would be needed to keep two pairs of phases in a single motor in sync.
TorgueRPM wrote:
Oct 15 2020 5:20pm
You mention being able to connect controllers via CAN, do you think there would be any issues running a dual 3-phase/6-phase motor like a hubmonster using two controllers connected by CAN?

The other option is to split the throttle signal, powering the throttle with one of the controllers and running just the signal wire to the other controller.

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Re: PV NextGen FOC 130v 200/600A 25kw - $599, Watch Display

Post by Powervelocity.com » Oct 21 2020 12:21pm

I know this has been done before but never tested. Sinusoidal controllers use hall signal all the time to detect the rotor position.
FOC favors BEMF for the motor phase detection. Not sure how well that will work with two sets of copper coils sitting on a single stator.
TorgueRPM wrote:
Oct 18 2020 8:23pm


The other option is to split the throttle signal, powering the throttle with one of the controllers and running just the signal wire to the other controller.

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Re: PV NextGen FOC 130v 200/600A 25kw - $599, Watch Display

Post by vwgo » Oct 23 2020 8:20pm

I understand we are in unusual times but things must be really bad like you can’t get parts to make these or really good with getting mass orders for these things and can’t keep them in stock. Not sure which but I have been trying to get on the pre-order for this item for over 6 months and never see any change on the website. Am I doing something wrong?? Is there a secret email list somewhere I don’t know about that I need to be on to get inline to then get on a pre-order?? Please help!! Thanks

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Re: PV NextGen FOC 130v 200/600A 25kw - $599, Watch Display

Post by j bjork » Oct 27 2020 8:28am

There are a better place for this, "vendor relations corner" or something like that.
If you keep posting here and there you will probably just get your posts erased.

The controllers you are talking about is his other, older ones. It is well known (on this forum at least) that these are chinese that pw only put other mosfets in. There are threads about them too, I dont remember where.

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Re: PV NextGen FOC 130v 200/600A 25kw - $599, Watch Display

Post by Powervelocity.com » Oct 28 2020 11:40am

We got most preorders completed now and planning to re-open for a few more. It's true that mass production has been challenging but not impossible. For now, I am limiting preorders to experienced builders in US mostly with some exceptions. Please feel free to PM if you are in the US and have experience building bikes or other types of vehicles.
vwgo wrote:
Oct 23 2020 8:20pm
I understand we are in unusual times but things must be really bad like you can’t get parts to make these or really good with getting mass orders for these things and can’t keep them in stock. Not sure which but I have been trying to get on the pre-order for this item for over 6 months and never see any change on the website. Am I doing something wrong?? Is there a secret email list somewhere I don’t know about that I need to be on to get inline to then get on a pre-order?? Please help!! Thanks

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Re: PV NextGen FOC 130v 200/600A 25kw - $599, Watch Display

Post by Powervelocity.com » Nov 04 2020 9:25pm

The new firmware now has the ability to stream real-time the data to the cloud.
Pretty much any data can be recorded and visualized.

This is a quick example recording voltage, motor and controller temperature, battery and phase currents.
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Re: PV NextGen FOC 130v 200/600A 25kw - $599, Watch Display

Post by TorgueRPM » Jan 05 2021 7:06pm

Any updates?

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Re: PV NextGen FOC 130v 200/600A 25kw - $599, Watch Display

Post by Powervelocity.com » Jan 05 2021 9:42pm

Yes, have been working lately on Android and iOS apps. The Android version is now published but still working on getting it pushed out in the apple store which has often been a pain in the neck. That's what it looks like so far:

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TorgueRPM wrote:
Jan 05 2021 7:06pm
Any updates?

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Re: PV NextGen FOC 130v 200/600A 25kw - $599, Watch Display

Post by j bjork » Jan 23 2021 8:30am

Any updates on the controller itself?
How is the progress with the testing, is there still hw changes before it is ready to sell to the public?

2 of those would be interesting for my latest project if they are ready in a few months.
Is it still 200bA and 400pA that you are testing?
Is there a reason for the max 200bA?
I can understand 400pA to be easy on mosfets etc.

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Re: PV NextGen FOC 130v 200/600A 25kw - $599, Watch Display

Post by Powervelocity.com » Feb 03 2021 7:26pm

The focus has been on the software lately. Specifically, the phone app. Motor detection, throttle trimming, general programming is now implemented. As well as the dashboard functionality. Working on data logging and visualization still.

You are correct that mosfets can take more, up to 600A peak is the max rating. The DC link is what needs to be beefed up to handle higher battery current and that will be an option pretty soon.

j bjork wrote:
Jan 23 2021 8:30am
Any updates on the controller itself?
How is the progress with the testing, is there still hw changes before it is ready to sell to the public?

2 of those would be interesting for my latest project if they are ready in a few months.
Is it still 200bA and 400pA that you are testing?
Is there a reason for the max 200bA?
I can understand 400pA to be easy on mosfets etc.

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Re: PV NextGen FOC 130v 200/600A 25kw - $599, Watch Display

Post by TorgueRPM » Feb 08 2021 7:39pm

Any idea when we will be able to buy them?


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Re: PV NextGen FOC 130v 200/600A 25kw - $599, Watch Display

Post by TorgueRPM » Mar 14 2021 8:38pm

PM'd about preorder.

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Re: PV NextGen FOC 130v 200/600A 25kw - $599, Watch Display

Post by TorgueRPM » Mar 31 2021 7:21pm

When charging through the controller, does the current through the motor cause the wheel to move at all? Maybe just a bit at the beginning?

Also, is there a spot for a three speed switch or alternate power mode? Or even better, several programmable inputs. I want a nice big turbo button/switch on my handlebars :D

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Re: PV NextGen FOC 130v 200/600A 25kw - $599, Watch Display

Post by Powervelocity.com » Apr 01 2021 11:10am

Yes, since we run current phase to phase, electromagnetic force is created on those coils when charging, so it moves just a tiny bit to align to magnets to reach an equilibrium position when the power source is connected. It feels like a little nudge, nothing too dramatic.

As for the power limits, you can technically reprogram it on the fly from the phone (as seen below) or display but I plan to add quick buttons for power modes (like 20%, 50%, and 100% or configurable percentages). I think this will be soft buttons on the phone to start with and maybe will add a hardwired option.

2021-04-01_9-01-13.png
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TorgueRPM wrote:
Mar 31 2021 7:21pm
When charging through the controller, does the current through the motor cause the wheel to move at all? Maybe just a bit at the beginning?

Also, is there a spot for a three speed switch or alternate power mode? Or even better, several programmable inputs. I want a nice big turbo button/switch on my handlebars :D

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Re: PV NextGen FOC 130v 200/600A 25kw - $599, Watch Display

Post by TorgueRPM » Apr 07 2021 11:11pm

Do you have a diagram for dimensions and hole spacing?

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Re: PV NextGen FOC 130v 200/600A 25kw - $599, Watch Display

Post by Powervelocity.com » Apr 09 2021 1:20pm

The enclosure is 225mm long, 78mm wide, and 51mm high.

This is the compact/light version currently used but I also have a larger/heavier with more cooling fins.
Compact is normally though as the cooling via IMS board is a few times more efficient compared to FR-4 boards.

This enclosure has a mounting slot at the base as shown with the red arrow below which allows you to slide in a mounting plate and make the hole spacing variable if you like (from 230mm and up to any distance needed).
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