TIG torch for battery spot welding

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kartoon   1 mW

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TIG torch for battery spot welding

Post by kartoon » Jul 17 2021 4:28pm

Hello everyone!

I am here to assess the need for the welder I made.
I developed it for the production of our batteries and it has proven itself so far. I made it because I couldn’t find a similar one anywhere at an affordable price. Our machine is an everlast EX210, but it can be used with practically any machine with advanced digital control.
You can see the test welding in the attached pictures. 100% of the welds are perfect, there is no such thing as spot welding to be visually okay, but poor adhesion.
Used regularly for spot welding of 0.2 - 0.4mm copper plate.

Specifications:
- gas-cooled head
- up to 150A continuous welding current
- 1.6mm tungsten
- 3m gas and power cable
- weldable copper thickness up to 1 mm with a current of 150A
- can be used by hand, pressing on the surface of the copper
- can be clamped in an industrial robot (this is how we use it) and in an XY coordinate machine.

Contents of the package:
- A piece of TIG torch
- 3m gas and power cable
- 1.6mm tungsten suitable for copper

The package does not include:
- electrical and gas connections (all machines are different)

Price: 200 € + delivery and VAT

Thanks.

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Reference pictures below
Screenshot 2021-06-24 at 0.39.29.jpg
The torch itself.
Screenshot 2021-06-24 at 0.39.29.jpg (396.12 KiB) Viewed 445 times
Screenshot 2021-06-24 at 0.39.06.jpg
CNC machined 0.3mm soft copper sheet
Screenshot 2021-06-24 at 0.39.06.jpg (323.48 KiB) Viewed 445 times
Screenshot 2021-06-24 at 0.39.18.png
Testing weldpool sizes. On top is too small, but sticks ok to battery. When removing leaving small flags of copper. On the bottom is decent contact points.
Screenshot 2021-06-24 at 0.39.18.png (1.52 MiB) Viewed 445 times
Screenshot 2021-06-24 at 0.39.44.jpg
Good welds from a different angle. Hard to take good photos from reflective materials.
The welded surface after four weling spots are cold enough to touch by hand.
Screenshot 2021-06-24 at 0.39.44.jpg (557.98 KiB) Viewed 445 times
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john61ct   100 GW

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Re: TIG torch for battery spot welding

Post by john61ct » Jul 17 2021 7:13pm

Wow seems like a solid way to go for solid copper handling high amps!

What would be a good petrol powered unit to get that 150A max off-grid?

Also looking to do structural aluminum welding

and ideally also handle high-current charging of large storage banks, worst case feed mains-style AC to AC-DC chargers

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ridethelightning   10 MW

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Re: TIG torch for battery spot welding

Post by ridethelightning » Jul 21 2021 8:05am

what alloy of copper sheet are you using?
does the torch require high gas flow when operating?

kartoon   1 mW

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Re: TIG torch for battery spot welding

Post by kartoon » Jul 21 2021 3:56pm

We tested with both hard and soft pure copper sheets between 0.2 and 0.4mm. Soft copper worked best because it did not burden the seam after welding. 0.3mm copper was the best in thickness.
The torch has a low argon requirement, 0.5 l / min is sufficient.

TrotterBob   1 W

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Re: TIG torch for battery spot welding

Post by TrotterBob » Jul 21 2021 6:20pm

Kinda wish I'd seen this before investing in a Kweld. Oh well. I might end up going this route in the future. Copper is a far better conductor than nickel strip. Well worth the extra bucks for a battery that might last 2,000 cycles or more.

Got any videos?

kartoon   1 mW

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Re: TIG torch for battery spot welding

Post by kartoon » Jul 22 2021 2:27am

Exactly @TrotterBob, this is the reason why we developed this torch, to be able to switch from nickel to copper when making high current batteries.
Videos coming soon.

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ridethelightning   10 MW

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Re: TIG torch for battery spot welding

Post by ridethelightning » Jul 22 2021 7:55am

apparently there are some copper alloys that contain phosphorus for anti corrosion properties. they can be 30% less conductive than electrical grade types. something to be aware of.

john61ct   100 GW

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Re: TIG torch for battery spot welding

Post by john61ct » Jul 22 2021 12:10pm

Wouldn't the term PURE copper, from a trustworthy supplier eliminate such a variant?

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ridethelightning   10 MW

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Re: TIG torch for battery spot welding

Post by ridethelightning » Jul 23 2021 6:26am

yep hopefully. its more that some may use copper scrap from a hot water cylinder or something that has been designed to withstand corrosion and not realize.

litespeed   1 MW

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Re: TIG torch for battery spot welding

Post by litespeed » Jul 23 2021 6:41am

Interested!

Tom
I'm married so you know I'm no stranger to pain!

kartoon   1 mW

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Re: TIG torch for battery spot welding

Post by kartoon » Jul 24 2021 4:37am

litespeed wrote:
Jul 23 2021 6:41am
Interested!

Tom
Tom, if you interested in buying please send me a PM. (quantity, delivery address, mail for paypal, etc.).

Thanks

kartoon   1 mW

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Re: TIG torch for battery spot welding

Post by kartoon » Jul 24 2021 4:53am

I've got many questions about cutting pure copper plates. I decided to share my technique to clean cut coppen on a cnc. After a several attempts with laser, plasma and water cutting I realized all methods left burr on the plates what is unacceptable for quality battery builds.

The best working method was the cnc cutting with
- 1mm one flute datron bit
- 600mm/min cutting speed at 24000rpm
- vacuum fixture
- isopropyl alcohol dust for lubricating and cooling the part.

If you need clean cutted copper parts for your high amp battery builds, do not hesitate to ask. For manufacturing I need 2d vector design. Highy suggested 0.3mm copper sheet, for best quality TIG welding.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/c5v1192g8uowh ... 6.mp4?dl=1

john61ct   100 GW

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Re: TIG torch for battery spot welding

Post by john61ct » Jul 24 2021 10:46am

PM sent.

Are those slots necessary?

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DogDipstick   10 kW

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Re: TIG torch for battery spot welding

Post by DogDipstick » Jul 24 2021 11:02am

kartoon wrote:
Jul 24 2021 4:53am


The best working method was the cnc cutting with
- 1mm one flute datron bit
- 600mm/min cutting speed at 24000rpm
- vacuum fixture
- isopropyl alcohol dust for lubricating and cooling the part.

If you need clean cutted copper parts for your high amp battery builds, do not hesitate to ask. For manufacturing I need 2d vector design. Highy suggested 0.3mm copper sheet, for best quality TIG welding.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/c5v1192g8uowh ... 6.mp4?dl=1

This is a neat project, the TIG implementations. I must ask the obvious, how much time does each weld take? Individual?

How is the time of the weld controlled?

In references to the machining...
I agree. People say machining copper is very rough on the machine, but I am happy you have shared the file. I again thank you ..

1 flute, 24000rpm, alcohol mist cooing. What percent alcohol? I refer to, 50% will work as well as 99.9%? I will use those setting in a test. The hardest thing is the clamping, I use blue tape with superglue to attach, I have no vacuum clamp.

The drop box file is 200mB.
83.1v of Ironhorse XC.. :) :bolt: by Chevy :bolt: :D Ok So that was what you call a "glitch:" :twisted: (...No Mom. The formula is Kaw > 1(Hr) = Impounded. The math checks out. I'll be fine. ).. :? Broke20Horsies! 17,830w !! :x 1 (pound / second) Horse Power = 338.24 M^2 Kg^2 / Sec^4 ( :twisted: prove me wrong :twisted: ) :| (gottenymoem4115thangs?Yall?) :confused: Fabricator @ BSECo. Inc.

john61ct   100 GW

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Re: TIG torch for battery spot welding

Post by john61ct » Jul 24 2021 12:14pm


DogDipstick wrote: 200mB.
Wow!

OP please upload to YT


cricketo   10 kW

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Re: TIG torch for battery spot welding

Post by cricketo » Jul 24 2021 9:02pm

john61ct wrote:
Jul 17 2021 7:13pm
Wow seems like a solid way to go for solid copper handling high amps!

What would be a good petrol powered unit to get that 150A max off-grid?

Also looking to do structural aluminum welding

and ideally also handle high-current charging of large storage banks, worst case feed mains-style AC to AC-DC chargers
150A that's at the welding voltage around 10-15V, so not a crazy amount of power to worry about, under 2000W at the input.

For structural aluminum work you're probably better off with the MIG (spool gun).

kartoon   1 mW

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Re: TIG torch for battery spot welding

Post by kartoon » Jul 25 2021 3:17am

john61ct wrote:
Jul 24 2021 10:46am
PM sent.

Are those slots necessary?
Thanks, I received the PM.
The slots are for unloading the copper after welding. As you see on the pictures, the copper is bent on the positive side of the battery. The slots allow the resilience of the copper not to strain the welding surface. I'll design better slots copper, just I have to finish the finite element analysis on the copper surface. The high amperage impulses also making a lot of movement in the material. Especially at regenerative braking.

This type of welder designed for very short impulses at relative low amperage. The TIG torch is not suitable for long time welding above 1mm material thickness.

john61ct   100 GW

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Re: TIG torch for battery spot welding

Post by john61ct » Jul 25 2021 4:40am


cricketo wrote:
john61ct wrote:
Jul 17 2021 7:13pm
What would be a good petrol powered unit to get that 150A max off-grid?
150A that's at the welding voltage around 10-15V, so not a crazy amount of power to worry about, under 2000W at the input.

For structural aluminum work you're probably better off with the MIG (spool gun).
Does that mean there are no units that do all three functions?

I really would prefer to not have to carry separate ones around.
kartoon wrote:This type of welder designed for very short impulses at relative low amperage.
(Could someone anyone) please link to some example welder units suitable for these applications?

> The TIG torch is not suitable for long time welding above 1mm material thickness.

Yes I did not mean your torch, but a welder I could use both with your torch

and with other torches (MIG) for structural aluminum.

ELI5, complete noob here about any metalworking

only done a little soldering circuit boards


kartoon   1 mW

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Re: TIG torch for battery spot welding

Post by kartoon » Jul 25 2021 4:51am

john61ct wrote:
Jul 25 2021 4:40am
cricketo wrote:
john61ct wrote:
Jul 17 2021 7:13pm
What would be a good petrol powered unit to get that 150A max off-grid?
150A that's at the welding voltage around 10-15V, so not a crazy amount of power to worry about, under 2000W at the input.

For structural aluminum work you're probably better off with the MIG (spool gun).
Does that mean there are no units that do all three functions?

I really would prefer to not have to carry separate ones around.
kartoon wrote:This type of welder designed for very short impulses at relative low amperage.
(Could someone anyone) please link to some example welder units suitable for these applications?

> The TIG torch is not suitable for long time welding above 1mm material thickness.

Yes I did not mean your torch, but a welder I could use both with your torch

and with other torches (MIG) for structural aluminum.

ELI5, complete noob here about any metalworking

only done a little soldering circuit boards
You can decinetly buy a tig-mig welder for multiple applications. I prefer everlast welders, and I own a 210ex, and it is perfect for 1-20mm aluminium welding. Also use for battery spot welding with my torch. I think is a good starting welder.

kartoon   1 mW

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Re: TIG torch for battery spot welding

Post by kartoon » Jul 26 2021 2:35am

Here is the copper machining video:

https://youtu.be/8R2BcI7sGjA

Cutting parameters:
0.3mm copper plate
600mm/min (try first with 200mm/min) 24000rpm
Vacuum fixture (blue tape is not soo good, when cutting through the bit fills with adhesive)
Isopropyl mist for lubricating and cooling.
1mm darton one flute milling bit.


For ordering custom made copper plates for tig welding, please send me 2d vector files, like dwg.

john61ct   100 GW

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Re: TIG torch for battery spot welding

Post by john61ct » Jul 26 2021 8:42am


kartoon wrote: You can decinetly buy a tig-mig welder for multiple applications. I prefer everlast welders, and I own a 210ex, and it is perfect for 1-20mm aluminium welding. Also use for battery spot welding with my torch. I think is a good starting welder.
Thanks, but I need
john61ct wrote:
Jul 17 2021 7:13pm
a good petrol powered unit to get that 150A max off-grid
since most of the time there is no mains power available.

I could get a couple Honda inverter generators but that will take up a lot of additional space, and altogether the cost would be too high


john61ct   100 GW

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Re: TIG torch for battery spot welding

Post by john61ct » Jul 26 2021 6:12pm

Continued from PMs
kartoon wrote:This is a good content to run a tig machine from generator. It you use tig spotwelder, the inverter takes low current consiption.
If you have your inverter, everlast or other, send me the exact type and I put in the package the connectors for the welder for a correct price.
Sorry I thought I was clear. I am a complete noob. Never even seen a welder in my life.

I am not sure what an inverter is in this context.

If you mean a suitable welder can be run from a DC battery bank that would be great, recharge from solar.

If you mean from a high power alternator, that would be fine too, can also use to recharge the battery bank.

I am asking YOU to give me links to the machinery I need to use your torch off grid.


kartoon   1 mW

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Re: TIG torch for battery spot welding

Post by kartoon » Jul 27 2021 1:49pm

john61ct wrote:
Jul 26 2021 6:12pm
Continued from PMs
kartoon wrote:This is a good content to run a tig machine from generator. It you use tig spotwelder, the inverter takes low current consiption.
If you have your inverter, everlast or other, send me the exact type and I put in the package the connectors for the welder for a correct price.
Sorry I thought I was clear. I am a complete noob. Never even seen a welder in my life.

I am not sure what an inverter is in this context.

If you mean a suitable welder can be run from a DC battery bank that would be great, recharge from solar.

If you mean from a high power alternator, that would be fine too, can also use to recharge the battery bank.

I am asking YOU to give me links to the machinery I need to use your torch off grid.
No problem John,

inverter = TIG welder

I recommend this welder: https://www.everlastgenerators.com/prod ... tig-210ext
And this generator: https://www.lincolnelectric.com/en/products/k2708-2

john61ct   100 GW

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Re: TIG torch for battery spot welding

Post by john61ct » Jul 28 2021 12:55am

Do you mean both?

Or buying the Lincoln no need for the Everlast?

kartoon   1 mW

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Re: TIG torch for battery spot welding

Post by kartoon » Jul 28 2021 5:35am

If you are offgrid, you need both and a bunch of petrol. The generator gives you electricity and it is safe for the welder and the welder... you know. :)

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