N.E.S.E. the no solder module

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tylerwatts   100 W

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Re: N.E.S.E. the no solder module

Post by tylerwatts » Jan 10 2022 7:26pm

leesafur wrote:
tylerwatts wrote:
Jan 04 2022 6:16am
Agniusm that looks like energy storage though, not high current. Would 2 8p modules in parallel be comfortable with 400A output? I am wondering about a pack similar size also.

cheers
Tyler
Hi Tyler, The answer to your question is it depends. It depends on what battery and BMS you are using. The above picture of the green batteries is mine and I was surprised to see it when it showed up in a google search lol. What you see there is 9-15s8p 63v batteries. Soon to be 15 batteries.. I paused building them last year as it was just to hot on the boat coming into summer (I'm a fulltime liveaboard) to keep printing them. Each battery has its own 40 amp BMS that's tied to a huge busbar that you cant see. Each 18650 cell that I'm using has a standard discharge rating of 0.2c which works out to be 590mA. That works out to be .59amps X 8=4.72amps X the 9 batteries = 42.48amps standard discharge. That's 2,676 watts of power without anything breaking a sweat. The maximum output is a totally different story! Maximum discharge current is (2c 5900mA) 5.9amps X 8=47.2amps X 9=424.8amps X 60volts =25,488 watts! The most my system has peaked is 414amps and the BMS's will peak to 540amps for 5s. The system is fully automatic and will simply start the generator if we are pulling more than 5,000 watts for more than 2 minutes. So... yeah.. I guess you could call it both, a energy storage system with high current. Short of spending 10 times as much and buying Battle Born Batteries this was the safest solution for me. The N.E.S.E system is a sound product that has changed everything todo with boating for us.
Lee
Hi Lee
Thanks for the background and fascinating use case. I was actually asking about the rating of the NESE hardware over the cells. I.e. if I built 8-10-12p modules of high output cells what max current could the NESE hardware handle comfortably before melting housings or seeing significant voltage drop. Particularly I'm considering how scalable the modules are for say building large motorcycle or small car packs of 20-30kwh and 100kw continuous or higher 5min rated outputs. And would I have to run a 400v system @250A to keep current down or could I run 160v say demanding 625A and possibly 30s bursts to 800A. Therefore rather than cells being the max discharge bottleneck would the NESE hardware start to be a concern?

I am aware that the hardware was improved not too long ago and rated to handle higher currents so I guess what is real world experience now showing? Does having lots of uncooled cells with potentially high current output in a densely packed battery assembly present a significant problem for the NESE system? And has anybody found a practical way for cooling potentially? Air channels in the modules or even interconnected water galleries that lock together when you stack modules maybe?

I apologise, I'm thinking aloud about the practicalities and challenges I'm likely to face on my desired builds, hypothetically.

cheers
Tyler


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agniusm   100 MW

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Re: N.E.S.E. the no solder module

Post by agniusm » Jan 11 2022 3:09am

Tyler, its not viable to build a cooled pack out of NESE. I would not even consider such big packs as there are car batteries you could use for quiet cheaper.
So for passive pack you would want to go with as many cells as is needed to keep the pack from overheating. Cells themselved dictate so NESE modules would not melt. If they melt, your cells are at over 70C and that is far from good for your cells. I melted mine while testing modules loaded with 6 sony vtc5a at over 200A reaching ~90C.
Modules are scalable as in you parallel them. I would test my cells were they are at, at desired load in terms of heating up, then size the pack accordingly.
Last edited by agniusm on Jan 11 2022 1:08pm, edited 2 times in total.

john61ct   100 GW

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Re: N.E.S.E. the no solder module

Post by john61ct » Jan 11 2022 7:56am


agniusm wrote:Tyler, its not viable to build a colled pack out of NESE.
Sorry what is meant by "colled" there?


999zip999   100 GW

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Re: N.E.S.E. the no solder module

Post by 999zip999 » Jan 13 2022 11:19pm

Tyler wants a high current water cooled pack. I think.

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tylerwatts   100 W

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Re: N.E.S.E. the no solder module

Post by tylerwatts » Jan 16 2022 8:45am

Well not water cooled, wondering what the limit of an uncooled pack might be, as Agnasium said, need a bigger battery with low current draw to mitigate high heat build up, in summary.

cheers
Tyler


john61ct   100 GW

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Re: N.E.S.E. the no solder module

Post by john61ct » Jan 16 2022 4:13pm

Yes, preventing heat from being generated internally in the first place, if practical is far far better than needing cooling solutions.

Lower C-rates and capacity utilisation can extend also lifespan by 3x 5x or more

drastically lowering annual running costs

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tomjasz   10 GW

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Re: N.E.S.E. the no solder module

Post by tomjasz » Jan 16 2022 9:15pm

john61ct wrote:
Jan 16 2022 4:13pm
Yes, preventing heat from being generated internally in the first place, if practical is far far better than needing cooling solutions.

Lower C-rates and capacity utilisation can extend also lifespan by 3x 5x or more

drastically lowering annual running costs
How have your NESE kits worked out?
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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