Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by Kepler » Aug 26 2010 9:31pm

Not sure about that motor as it doesnt seem to have a prop driver on the non shaft side. The motor needs to be supported on both sides
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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by Kepler » Aug 26 2010 9:32pm

SanFranRider wrote:i'm sure the answer is somewhere but I can't find it:

What is the max range of something like the 200V Turnigy on a 700C wheel with a 5s or 6s 5000mAh battery - with and without peddling?
About 10km no pedal (flat ground) 20 to 30km when used for hill assist only.
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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by Kepler » Aug 26 2010 9:34pm

mwkeefer wrote:From a few pages back as I re-read I noted your use of the term Vero board which is the old school name for perf board really... then I remembered wire wrapping where you would wrap jumper wires on to legs of components on the other side and those boards had no tinning / copper... it was a very odd and probably short lived non soldering way to prototype up PCBs before solderless breadboards came along :)

Sorry... Maybe it's a common thing in AU now or a brand name, just to me it was a blast back to be being 12 and getting my tech class hamm licence.... and all the prototypes I built with radioshack components, when radioshack had real components!

-Mike
I am 50 you know :mrgreen:
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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by amberwolf » Aug 26 2010 9:55pm

mwkeefer wrote:then I remembered wire wrapping where you would wrap jumper wires on to legs of components on the other side and those boards had no tinning / copper... it was a very odd and probably short lived non soldering way to prototype up PCBs before solderless breadboards came along :)
It's still used in certain types of industries. Aircraft flight computers for even the latest 747s, the older MD80 series, MD90, 777, and probably many others all use wire-wrap "motherboards" in the flight computers and other units in the avionics bays, cockpits, and elsewhere (though the cards that plug into them use PCBs). More than a few panels and cockpit controls and displays use wire wrap for a lot more than just the motherboard, too.

They aren't usually wiring directly from component leads for most of these things, though they do this for front panel components a fair bit, sometimes soldering over the wire wrap and sometimes not. Usually it's for things like the motherboard, where they have clusters of 130+ pins in a grid (not exactly a connector, since the pins are individually placed thru the metal plate serving as a board), with the pins usually looking like a tuning fork, more or less, and the pins on the card connectors that plug into them being simple tabs.

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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by SanFranRider » Aug 27 2010 5:14pm

Couple of questions:

1) Can four 6s 5000mAh battery packs be run in parallel with the Turnigy ESC to give a longer ride time?

2) Is there any reason not to get the cheaper Turnigy ESC (rather than the Castle Creations) if I plan to use the upcoming Kepler Interface?

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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by Hillhater » Aug 27 2010 10:47pm

SanFranRider wrote: 2) Is there any reason not to get the cheaper Turnigy ESC (rather than the Castle Creations) if I plan to use the upcoming Kepler Interface?
I am wondering the same, and there are a few threads on here that may help us both understand the situation better..
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 28&t=21026
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =2&t=21025
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 30&t=20978

My own understanding so far is that these ESC's apparently have no current limiting , so if you over load the drive , you can fry the ESC with too many amps, so the way to avoid problems is to use a high current capacity ESC, ...hence the CC HV160 .??

somebody please correct me if i have this wrong ! :( :oops:
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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by Kepler » Aug 28 2010 5:20am

SanFranRider wrote:Couple of questions:

1) Can four 6s 5000mAh battery packs be run in parallel with the Turnigy ESC to give a longer ride time?

2) Is there any reason not to get the cheaper Turnigy ESC (rather than the Castle Creations) if I plan to use the upcoming Kepler Interface?
You can run as many packs as you like in parallel. I quite often have 2 pack paralleled. Other choice is to just carry the second pack as a spare and use just if you need to.

OK Speed controllers.

Let me start by saying I have never blown an ESC with this drive whether it be a Castle Creations of a Kforce. Am I just lucky so far? Perhaps, but I don't think so. EVTodd who has run a fricton drive for much longer then me also has never blown an ESC either (correct me if i'm wrong Todd).

My theories.

> Firstly, the battery cable runs are typically short. usually no extrension or only a short estension is needed to connect the ESC to battery.
> Unike a direct chain drive, there is a little bit of give in the transfer of power.
> Actual power output is quite conservative at around 1200w max unlike many of the RC projects here that are power monsters.
> Because you are moving before the drive is activated, much of the stress is taken off the ESC.

My Castle Creatons 85HV has done over 1000km and never missed a beat. Castle make great ESCs and are still my number 1 choice but you pay for the quality. I have also clocked some serious kms on the 100A Kforce including the abuse my 3 kids have given it. I have now changed out to the cheap and nasty 85A Kforce. This too is working very well and is clocking up some reasonable run time now.

So the choices are there. I am building a few drives as complete units at the moment and fitting the Kforce 100A to these as a compromize between cost and quality.
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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by Kepler » Aug 28 2010 4:08pm

Drives are multiplying :mrgreen:
Here is a mix pain finished, black anodized and a couple of special order green anodized units. Its difficult to show green in photo but it looks quite effective. There are about 4 other colours that can be done also.
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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by mwkeefer » Aug 28 2010 4:27pm

sweet! - the green shows well enough but the black looks a tad blue (which would also be cool), now I'm wishing I had ordered mine in black or even clear anodized (for protection) to mount on a Titanium Hard Rock :)

Oh and btw - so that's where all the kForce ESCs went? Figures :)

-Mike
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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by SanFranRider » Aug 28 2010 4:56pm

How does/will your throttle interface differ from the evLogix RC Throttelizer (http://www.evlogix.com/content.php?link=Rcthrottle) or does it function similarly?

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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by oatnet » Aug 28 2010 6:53pm

Oh those greens are nice. What other colors? Assuming one is red, any idea what that might turn out like? It would be sweet if it was like my Tidalforce s-750 frames.

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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by AussieJester » Aug 28 2010 7:40pm

Castle Creations also have excellent paid warranty, there is a price list on their website i am not sure the
exact price for the smaller HV controllers like the hv85 Kepler mentioned, but the the hv160 i sent back cost
only 135 to replace that includes freight, the smaller ESCs were under 100 bucks for replacement with
new or refurbished unit, i thought this was excellent service myself.

The range of colours i assume (inn addition to the above pictured units) would be Red blue gold and purple? Kepler

KiM

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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by mwkeefer » Aug 28 2010 7:50pm

oatnet wrote:Oh those greens are nice. What other colors? Assuming one is red, any idea what that might turn out like? It would be sweet if it was like my Tidalforce s-750 frames.
I'll see if I can't do a build up of clear annodized on one of the grey 750 frames shortly :)

-Mike
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2010 Dahon Jack - GNG v1 - LYEN 6FET - 20/40A - 18S2P10AH - Nom:66.6v,1332w
2004 Hard Rock Pro Disc - Recumpence ms eDrive v4 - Astro 3220 4T - 12S2P16AH - HV110 - Left Side Drive - Gearing: 38mph
Nominal Peak Power @ 60 seconds: 5328 watts - Maximum Power: 49.8v, 120A, 5872w
2010 Downtube 8FH - Stock GNG v1 Stock Controller - EB809XC - 12-16S
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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by Kepler » Aug 28 2010 8:36pm

SanFranRider wrote:How does/will your throttle interface differ from the evLogix RC Throttelizer (http://www.evlogix.com/content.php?link=Rcthrottle) or does it function similarly?
Function is quite different and is specifically designed for this drive. Our interface is designed to go inside the space provided in the drive and as such is not boxed for external protection. The throttle operation is fully proportional and can be used with normal throttles but we want to do things a little differently using a pressure sensitve strip wrapped around the hand grip. Pressure on the the top of the strip increase throttle, pressure on the lower section decreases speed, and pressure in the middle of the sensor strip holds the same throttle postion. Releasing pressure sends the throttle back to zero. It may take a bit of getting use to but we are hoping it will be very compfortable to use as you wont need to try and hold the throttle still to maintain a given speed. Its not a cruise control however, just last postion hold arrangment.

It also has a wheel speed sensor that allows us to lock out the drive until a minimum speed is reached so you are forced to have the bike moving at a minimum 5mph before the drive can activate. This will provide a huge amount of protection to the speed controller. The interface also comes with a battery voltage indicator LED and speedo. A mechanical brake switch input is also fitted.

And for the boffens out there, the interface will become available as a kit and the code made available as open source.
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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by Kepler » Aug 28 2010 8:40pm

AussieJester wrote:Castle Creations also have excellent paid warranty, there is a price list on their website i am not sure the
exact price for the smaller HV controllers like the hv85 Kepler mentioned, but the the hv160 i sent back cost
only 135 to replace that includes freight, the smaller ESCs were under 100 bucks for replacement with
new or refurbished unit, i thought this was excellent service myself.

The range of colours i assume (inn addition to the above pictured units) would be Red blue gold and purple? Kepler

KiM
Certainly Red, blue, green, black, and clear. Not sure on the gold and purple but will check.

Good point in relation to the CC controller and warranty.
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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by AussieJester » Aug 28 2010 9:02pm

Kepler wrote:
AussieJester wrote:Castle Creations also have excellent paid warranty, there is a price list on their website i am not sure the
exact price for the smaller HV controllers like the hv85 Kepler mentioned, but the the hv160 i sent back cost
only 135 to replace that includes freight, the smaller ESCs were under 100 bucks for replacement with
new or refurbished unit, i thought this was excellent service myself.

The range of colours i assume (inn addition to the above pictured units) would be Red blue gold and purple? Kepler

KiM
Good point in relation to the CC controller and warranty.Certainly Red, blue, green, black, and clear. Not sure on the gold and purple but will check.





purple=magneta :wink:

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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by vancblue » Aug 29 2010 11:37am

Kepler wrote: . . . using a pressure sensitive strip wrapped around the hand grip [to act as a throttle]
Finally :) I have been known to try to play the pedal steel guitar which requires the player to simultaneously use feet and knees to press pedals and levers up and down and from side to side.

Not being satisfied with what I have seen of the throttles out there I wondered whether some other form of ‘body movement' could function as a speed control – with maybe the added convenience of being wireless, since products such as wireless bike computers are relatively inexpensive.

Solutions I have been thinking of involve some sort of a pressure-sensitive attachment to a bike glove – so your solution falls along similar lines. Thanks.

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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by oatnet » Aug 29 2010 8:11pm

WooHoo! Got my paypal invoice and paid, I can't wait! :D

I'll be watching for your interface kit to upgrade my servo tester. To answer your earlier question, I'll be using a 5k pot thumb throttle from a tidalforce bike.

-JD

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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by Hillhater » Sep 01 2010 10:46pm

Hi Kepler, ( Sorry to keep asking similar questions, but there is little detail available from HK..)
... you have mentioned using the Turnigy 50-65 outrunner in your trials.
can you confirm that this motor has a skirt bearing ?
Kepler wrote: Also I have one of these cheap outrunners to test. Might suit a low power setup, say up to 800W. Size and Kv are perfect and at $29 bucks,
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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by Kepler » Sep 02 2010 1:22am

I have tested it. It works quite well but needs to be used for light duties only. Running this motor at 800W will cook it very quickly in an ebike application. It would go ok if limited to around 400W. It doesnt have a skirt bearing. Spend the extra $30 and get the 63-74. Works very well with the drive and handles some decent load.
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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by Hillhater » Sep 02 2010 1:58am

OK. thanks Kepler, that is what i thought also.
I wanted to try the 65-74 Aerodrive @ 170 KV... but again i dont think it has the skirt brg ( conflicting infomation), so i have settles on the turnigy 63-54 A, @ 250kv, as being the best compromise ( definitely a skirt brg in that one) !
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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by EVTodd » Sep 08 2010 9:52pm

Kepler,

If you don't mind me asking, where are you sourcing the quick release seat post clamp/mount? They look like they are die cast. Surely you didn't have custom die cast molds made did you? :shock:
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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by drifter » Sep 09 2010 3:03am

Hi all, a question for Kepler. Do you have plans (drawings) for sale so that I could build my own drive. I have already bought the motor, speed controller and battery.
Congratulations on your success
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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by Kepler » Sep 09 2010 5:23am

EVTodd wrote:Kepler,

If you don't mind me asking, where are you sourcing the quick release seat post clamp/mount? They look like they are die cast. Surely you didn't have custom die cast molds made did you? :shock:
The clamp is used on drum kits. Its an 1 1/2" univeral clamp. I actually only use half the clamp for the drive but the size is perfect and its super strong. You can buy them in most instrument stores.
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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by Kepler » Sep 09 2010 5:32am

drifter wrote:Hi all, a question for Kepler. Do you have plans (drawings) for sale so that I could build my own drive. I have already bought the motor, speed controller and battery.
Congratulations on your success
Robbo
Sorry drifter, too much IP tied up there.

I still have an un anodized unit available though. $315.00 AUD and its yours. My hand built prototypes take me 30 hours to build from scratch so its a cheap option to go with a built unit. Off course is depends on if the the actual hand building of the drive is what is going to give you the satisfaction. I can understand that. Your call.
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