Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by SanFranRider » Aug 21 2010 11:46am

So i am assuming I can just wire a 3-wire Currie 5k thumb throttle to the ESC and I am good to go, right? When you have the interface ready does that replace the throttle, or does the interface go between the throttle and the ESC?

I am just about ready to buy. But I too want to know if the kit requires any special tools or skills.

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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by SanFranRider » Aug 21 2010 12:11pm

I would like to use the KFDS on two different bikes. One has a 1.050in (26.67mm) seatpost, the other has a 1.070in (27.18mm) post. Any problems with this?

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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by Kepler » Aug 21 2010 2:28pm

oatnet wrote:
Kepler wrote:Built drives ready to be shipped. :)
Drrooool. :D

I'd imagine the anodized black ones will take longer for the extra step, I can't wait! Do you have the assembly instructions ready yet? I just want to make sure I have the tools I need for the build, otherwise I'll throw down another $20 for the build. It looks like a standard bolt-together, but ya never know.

-JD
Yes the anodizing takes one extra week. Parts will be delivered to the Anodizers tomorrow with the anodized drives shipped Monday week. In regards to instructions, I am working on these at the moment and will have these ready for download before anyone receives their drives. In regards to special tools, a metric Allen key set and a few basic tools are all you need. These are really nice and make assembly a breeze.http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... rewdriver_ Put 2mm, 2.5mm,3mm, and 4mm in your cart if you happen to be buying other pieces from the site.
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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by Kepler » Aug 21 2010 2:36pm

SanFranRider wrote:So i am assuming I can just wire a 3-wire Currie 5k thumb throttle to the ESC and I am good to go, right? When you have the interface ready does that replace the throttle, or does the interface go between the throttle and the ESC?

I am just about ready to buy. But I too want to know if the kit requires any special tools or skills.
You still need an interface. The throttle signal needs to be converted from 5K to a signal the ESC reconizes. A servo tester does this. The servo tester circuit is very simple and can be made for a few dollars or just buy one. I use this one and modify it http://cgi.ebay.com.au/000504-EK2-0907- ... ccessories Just need to remove the pot out of it, install a plug, and wire the currie or Magura to it.
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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by Kepler » Aug 21 2010 2:38pm

SanFranRider wrote:I would like to use the KFDS on two different bikes. One has a 1.050in (26.67mm) seatpost, the other has a 1.070in (27.18mm) post. Any problems with this?
No problems. The same adapter will suit both sizes. I would supply 2 adapters so you could leave the adapter on the seat post and just clamp onto it.
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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by neoplasticity » Aug 23 2010 11:22pm

wow, that sold out fast. you better do a bigger run next time :P

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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by Kepler » Aug 24 2010 1:37am

Got another run of 10 going at the moment. These will be available by next Monday. I will leave a couple plain but most wanted anodized. I have had a couple anodized green. Will be interesting how they come up.
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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by RayB » Aug 24 2010 2:27am

Hi Kepler,

Fascinating setup. I am looking for something I can keep as stealth as possible. I know these are based on an RC setup so I am just curious on the noise level these are putting out. Are they real screamers? Also, being tall most of my bikes have a huge rear triangle. Do you ever see a version in the future that could hang off the seat tube below the top tube vs the seat post. This would keep it very stealthy for my needs.

Thanks,

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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by mwkeefer » Aug 24 2010 10:38am

Kepler,

Sorry I missed your PP request yesterday, balance due remitted just now... hope I didn't loose my position :)

-Mike

PS: What will I need to mount various motors to your drive system?
Regards,
Mike

{My Rides]
2010 Dahon Jack - GNG v1 - LYEN 6FET - 20/40A - 18S2P10AH - Nom:66.6v,1332w
2004 Hard Rock Pro Disc - Recumpence ms eDrive v4 - Astro 3220 4T - 12S2P16AH - HV110 - Left Side Drive - Gearing: 38mph
Nominal Peak Power @ 60 seconds: 5328 watts - Maximum Power: 49.8v, 120A, 5872w
2010 Downtube 8FH - Stock GNG v1 Stock Controller - EB809XC - 12-16S
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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by oatnet » Aug 24 2010 6:48pm

I just bought a Castle Creations Phoenix ICE 100a/heatsink for $97, $7 shipping, this was the one recommended on page 1? The price seemed better than my RC neophyte search was turning up elsewhere, and the vendor has 2 more at that price, so I thought I'd post it.

He has another auction for the same ESC for $112.95. I asked him what the difference was, he said the cheaper one was the same item in an older listing. Inflation?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0496110929

-JD

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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by Hillhater » Aug 24 2010 7:28pm

I can see why you chose the Hyperion initially, and i believe most of your testing has been on that motor with the dual bearings, but i would like to know how you feel the cheaper turnigy's are holding up and are any of the motors tried NOT fitted with skirt bearings ?

Aside from the Hyperion "Z" series, are there any other motors with skirt bearings ?? ( i believe some of the turnigys are fitted..eg, TGY 63-54-A )
.. I believe this is an important choice for reliability in this type of application.
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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by Kepler » Aug 24 2010 9:33pm

RayB wrote:Hi Kepler,

Fascinating setup. I am looking for something I can keep as stealth as possible. I know these are based on an RC setup so I am just curious on the noise level these are putting out. Are they real screamers? Also, being tall most of my bikes have a huge rear triangle. Do you ever see a version in the future that could hang off the seat tube below the top tube vs the seat post. This would keep it very stealthy for my needs.

Thanks,
Noise wise, the 320kV motors do make a bit of noise at full throttle. Not uncompfortable but not stealth either. The low kv motors down at 200 are quite enough to need your bell to let people in front know you are coming.

I have the same problem as you with tall bikes (I am 6'3") I am working on an option that uses extended pivot arms so the drive can be used on these taller bikes. I will post a picture in the next week to show how it fits.
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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by Kepler » Aug 24 2010 9:37pm

oatnet wrote:I just bought a Castle Creations Phoenix ICE 100a/heatsink for $97, $7 shipping, this was the one recommended on page 1? The price seemed better than my RC neophyte search was turning up elsewhere, and the vendor has 2 more at that price, so I thought I'd post it.

He has another auction for the same ESC for $112.95. I asked him what the difference was, he said the cheaper one was the same item in an older listing. Inflation?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0496110929

-JD
Great price. Good find. Thats the best price I've seen on this ESC.
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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by Kepler » Aug 24 2010 9:54pm

Hillhater wrote:I can see why you chose the Hyperion initially, and i believe most of your testing has been on that motor with the dual bearings, but i would like to know how you feel the cheaper turnigy's are holding up and are any of the motors tried NOT fitted with skirt bearings ?

Aside from the Hyperion "Z" series, are there any other motors with skirt bearings ?? ( i believe some of the turnigys are fitted..eg, TGY 63-54-A )
.. I believe this is an important choice for reliability in this type of application.
My main testing has been using the Hyperion 4045 320kv and the 63-74 200kv. Both have skirt bearings and have been super reliable even when running in the rain. I have done a bit of testing with some smaller motors without skirt bearings also and had no issues with the bearings. In reality, the load on the bearings isnt that great. Perhaps a couple of Kg at the most. The only concern I would have is the can being distorted if a skirt bearing is not used but so far I havent seen this.
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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by oatnet » Aug 25 2010 9:38pm

I was leaning towards the Hyperion for the skirt bearing until you pointed out the Turnigy had one too, and made the comment about the lower KV motors being more stealthy, so I bought the HXT 63-74 200kv Brushless Outrunner. I guess I had been to that page a few times and left it sitting, so a popup came up that knocked the price to $55. :shock: Did you change the bearings on yours or run it stock?

I also got a pair of the servo testors you advised, from ebay's US website instead of AU: EK2-0907 Servo Tester. That seems to be everything I need, so this cost me $500 US, including your Kit and Anodizing... That is cheap, less than a laced BMC or x5, and it already includes the controller.

Is the reason you recommend 5p/6p lico because that is common packaging, or because with our loading, approaching the 35v limit on the ESC is hard on it? My plan is to run this on 9S a123's 16ah, just shy of the 35v limit for more RPMs, to take the 200kvm motor to the 30-35mph mark I was hoping for. Huh, was the lower KV motor quieter simply because of lower RPMs? If so, then the larger motor is stealthier, but even so I'll probably end up making a happy racket at speed :lol:

-JD

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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by mwkeefer » Aug 25 2010 11:05pm

vero board ? Wow man, talk about Forest M Mimms age and you look so young on TV... I think you and me, maybe Fechter and GGoodrum used Vero board.

While were at it, could you post the WireWrap version of the 555timer/pot :)_

-Mike
Regards,
Mike

{My Rides]
2010 Dahon Jack - GNG v1 - LYEN 6FET - 20/40A - 18S2P10AH - Nom:66.6v,1332w
2004 Hard Rock Pro Disc - Recumpence ms eDrive v4 - Astro 3220 4T - 12S2P16AH - HV110 - Left Side Drive - Gearing: 38mph
Nominal Peak Power @ 60 seconds: 5328 watts - Maximum Power: 49.8v, 120A, 5872w
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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by Kepler » Aug 26 2010 2:49am

oatnet wrote:I was leaning towards the Hyperion for the skirt bearing until you pointed out the Turnigy had one too, and made the comment about the lower KV motors being more stealthy, so I bought the HXT 63-74 200kv Brushless Outrunner. I guess I had been to that page a few times and left it sitting, so a popup came up that knocked the price to $55. :shock: Did you change the bearings on yours or run it stock?

I also got a pair of the servo testors you advised, from ebay's US website instead of AU: EK2-0907 Servo Tester. That seems to be everything I need, so this cost me $500 US, including your Kit and Anodizing... That is cheap, less than a laced BMC or x5, and it already includes the controller.

Is the reason you recommend 5p/6p lico because that is common packaging, or because with our loading, approaching the 35v limit on the ESC is hard on it? My plan is to run this on 9S a123's 16ah, just shy of the 35v limit for more RPMs, to take the 200kvm motor to the 30-35mph mark I was hoping for. Huh, was the lower KV motor quieter simply because of lower RPMs? If so, then the larger motor is stealthier, but even so I'll probably end up making a happy racket at speed :lol:

-JD
Bearings are unchanged. So far so good. The skirt bearing the 63-74 is massive.

In regards to speed just see how you go with 6S. Its plenty fast you will see. The reason why I keep suggesting 5S is that it makes power delivery smoother especially when using a servo tester throttle. Are you going to use a Magura, Currie, or make your own throttle?

I really dont recommend any more then 6S unless perhaps you re wind a motor motor down to the 100kv mark. I tihnk you may start getting into slipping problems and I think it will be silly fast on a 200kv setup. Up to you though.
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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by Kepler » Aug 26 2010 2:51am

I'm confused. Did I miss something?
mwkeefer wrote:vero board ? Wow man, talk about Forest M Mimms age and you look so young on TV... I think you and me, maybe Fechter and GGoodrum used Vero board.

While were at it, could you post the WireWrap version of the 555timer/pot :)_

-Mike
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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by mwkeefer » Aug 26 2010 3:48am

From a few pages back as I re-read I noted your use of the term Vero board which is the old school name for perf board really... then I remembered wire wrapping where you would wrap jumper wires on to legs of components on the other side and those boards had no tinning / copper... it was a very odd and probably short lived non soldering way to prototype up PCBs before solderless breadboards came along :)

Sorry... Maybe it's a common thing in AU now or a brand name, just to me it was a blast back to be being 12 and getting my tech class hamm licence.... and all the prototypes I built with radioshack components, when radioshack had real components!

-Mike
Regards,
Mike

{My Rides]
2010 Dahon Jack - GNG v1 - LYEN 6FET - 20/40A - 18S2P10AH - Nom:66.6v,1332w
2004 Hard Rock Pro Disc - Recumpence ms eDrive v4 - Astro 3220 4T - 12S2P16AH - HV110 - Left Side Drive - Gearing: 38mph
Nominal Peak Power @ 60 seconds: 5328 watts - Maximum Power: 49.8v, 120A, 5872w
2010 Downtube 8FH - Stock GNG v1 Stock Controller - EB809XC - 12-16S
2012 Downtube Nova 7spd - Stock GNG v2 - 12S2P10AH - EB809 - 12S-16S - 20A/30A,Nom VCC: 44.4, 888w

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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by Hillhater » Aug 26 2010 9:27am

oatnet wrote:......I was leaning towards the Hyperion for the skirt bearing until you pointed out the Turnigy had one too, and made the comment about the lower KV motors being more stealthy, so I bought the HXT 63-74 200kv Brushless Outrunner.
-JD
Are you sure that the HTX 63-74 has a skirt bearing ???
i know the 63-54 A 250 kv has (http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbyking/stor ... ._52-20%29) but i have seen comments that suggest not all those turnigy 63mm motors run skirt brgs ! :o
Can someone confirm ?
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Kepler   1 GW

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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by Kepler » Aug 26 2010 5:07pm

The HTX 63-74 200 kv has a skirt bearing. The legnth of the motor gives it away. I just received 5 of these motors and can confirm they have skirt bearings. They are actually Turnigy motors, not HTX. Probably the same thing though.
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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by Hillhater » Aug 26 2010 5:23pm

Thanks Kepler, thats good to know. :idea:
do you (or anyone) happen to know if the TGY Aerodrive 63-74 170kv also has the skirt brg ??
Its not clear on the HK site exactly which motors have this feature, and even though you say the length of the motor is the clue, the shorter 63-54 also has the brg ?

Thanks again.
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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by Kepler » Aug 26 2010 8:00pm

I dont believe it does. I think Mike can confirm this though. I know he owns one.
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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by SanFranRider » Aug 26 2010 8:38pm

i'm sure the answer is somewhere but I can't find it:

What is the max range of something like the 200V Turnigy on a 700C wheel with a 5s or 6s 5000mAh battery - with and without peddling?

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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by Nanoha » Aug 26 2010 8:56pm

Is it possible to switch to different motors on the fly ?

Wondering if the Turnigy e-drive 5345/9 will work, it's lighter than the 63-74 and it seems to have good reviews.
http://hobbycity.com/hobbyking/store/uh ... oduct=6774

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