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Re: The worlds best E-bike frame,price slashed! UPDATE

Postby liveforphysics » Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:03 pm

maxwell65 wrote:
Ian wrote:good luck to you man and smart to put it through the ES initiation, it's not the warm and fuzzies you need is it. There is a need for a good e-bike frame. I use the iacocca evg bike imo he got the frame design just right.


yes i do agree its very nice design concept,but as we all know here on this forum if you want real power,torque,speed and range,YOU NEED A GOOD AMOUNT OF BATTERIES!ALL E-BIKES AVAILABLE TO DAY ARE a joke in terms of what they offer in performance versus range,,,the most you can hope for on any e-bike available today is maybe 30kms range with any real power,,,if your willing to settle for a 20amp controller with a top speed of 25kmph that slows to a crawl in the wind or any hill, and have lets say 36v20ah of batteries then you can probably expect a 35 km range(no pedal),,,but take that same bike and use a 40amp controller with a top speed of 40kmph and does well on hills and wind,well expect that range to go down to 20kms if your lucky. if you want real autonomy and speed we need this bike,,,,anytime i want to go 20kms to take a ride down town i have to charge up once im their cause i know my max range is 30kms with my 48v20ah lifepo4 pack,,,but i cant charge up cause plugs are not readily available,,,,so the most i can go is 15kms away from my home,,then i gotta head back to my plug,,,,this bike will allow easily a 80 km range with a 60v40ah pack(heavy on the throttle no peddle),,,which will fit on this frame,,,if you choose to be light on the throttle and add some peddle well bring that range to well above 150kms.so yes, there are very elegant E-bike frames out there,,, but not real practical,,,and as far as im concerned this frame looks real cool and i bet the finished product will look even better in real life.




I agree with all of that 100% Maxwell. I also think the frame looks fine.

I would not buy an aluminum frame for an Ebike though. Cro-Mo would make it a go for me. :-)
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Re: The worlds best E-bike frame,price slashed! UPDATE

Postby bigisland » Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:16 pm

So yeah; you should be more modest in you language, your obviously into the sales end of things and maybe that’s your inspiration. But I would have introduced your post as something like E-bike Frame Prototype Buy in Trial. Your ordering a batch of frames from an E-bike company and having them made to your specs. Nothing wrong with that. But “Worlds best E-bike frame”

the fact that the company im working with produces on average a million frames a year,has a few engineers on their team and the guy that designed this frame has all kinds of degrees in engineering and design


This only means your working with people who make run of the mill stuff, If they do that many it has to be. If I were you I would get a serious second opinion on that design, it seem really lacking in the blending of function with structure. I think a lot of the other posters agree also that the thing has zero “sex appeal”, but thats a whole other story (and your "big" company you are working with will never get you to far down that road) And look at those pissy rear dropouts, those little hooks are what they use for bicycles. Your e-bike manufacturer hasn’t even evolved those, just a quick look at ES and you see bicycle drop outs being mutated let and right cause their not adequate for e-bikes.
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Re: The worlds best E-bike frame,price slashed! UPDATE

Postby slayer » Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:19 pm

nothing
Last edited by slayer on Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The worlds best E-bike frame,price slashed! UPDATE

Postby heathyoung » Wed Jul 06, 2011 10:44 pm

To echo some of the comments already made - the dropouts are inadequate. Clamping 10mm thick on each side would be great, as would horizontal dropouts. Those HT/HS35's destroy dropouts. Regen undoes fixings as well. People have stated that the dropouts on the greyb.org frame have not fared well with the HT/HS motors, and they are not what you would call flimsy.

Steel / Chromoly or its a dead duck. AL might be great for the weight-weenies out there, but its too prone to fatigue. Its also a shit to modify.

Consider the chainline. Those running single-speed would appreciate some thought with this in regards to suspension travel.

The ability to run wiring through the frame, and some sort of fairing would be good too.

I like the rear 'rack' as you could mount a controller under there (or above) as well.

Standardise the parts: BB and headset should be easy to obtain. Ditto with the seatpost, weird sizes not apply. QR on the seatpost would be ideal, especially if you are planning to have that battery removable.
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Re: The worlds best E-bike frame,price slashed! UPDATE

Postby ptd » Thu Jul 07, 2011 12:00 am

points...

+3, getting with a manufacturer. That is really applaudible, imo. Nice work.
-3, not having a prototype. If you going to spend $200,000, and don't have a working model, you must work for the government, and I don't think I trust the government.
+2, price slashed seems about right, maybe even a little low
-2, going off continent, imo. I know it's cheap, but I think so is the product usually. You mention world class manufacturing, with a tremendous wealth of experience in producing frames, could you show us some examples of what they've put out? Not to mention, you have a chance to jumpstart the economy in your area, to make a change, locally.
+2, large, reasonably efficient use of space for batteries.
+1, nearly integrated rear rack.
-1, claiming that the amount of effort you're put into it is unimaginable. I'm sorry, but with the talent i've seen here in just a few weeks, that claim is way off, at best, and insulting, at worst.
-1, touting it as the worlds best. 1, most expensive or time consuming r&d doesn't make it the best, just the most expensive and most time consuming. 2, seeing as how it doesn't exist yet, it can't truly be compared. (btw, what specific models (or builds here, for that matter) are you going to compare yours to?) 3. self appraisal is generally considered biased and self serving.

-1/2, you haven't even named it yet, +1/2 if you're going to have a contest to name it, lol

conclusion... get a prototype, make it on this continent, show a parts and price list, pray to (and listen to) the es gods, and you'll have a winner. THEN, get an accountant to start taking deposits. imo, never ask for payments to be made via paypal as gift. It severly limits (or even eliminates) a customer's options in obtaining a refund, and hence, makes you look sketchy (kickstart sounded like a great idea though).

PS, You mention this insane power and speed, with no license and no registration, but I think that's WAY off. If it ACTS like motor vehicle, or even LOOKS like one, that's how you'll be treated, maybe not by DMV, but certainly by every cop that sees you.

Good luck with the plan, it certainly has some potential, and a good deal of polish.
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Re: The worlds best E-bike frame,price slashed! UPDATE

Postby jonathanm » Thu Jul 07, 2011 1:10 am

Ok, here's my 2c......

Don't talk in hyperbole. This is a forum full of amateur and pro engineers. Nobody is gonna be taken in by sales spiel. We like facts, figure, dimensions, drawings, facts, and more facts.

Your bike is fugly. Not a deal breaker, because it promises a new level of performance. But you need to prove it first. IF you can make it beautiful, then people might be more prepared to overlook it's technical misgivings. If it performs exceptionally then people will overlook it's fugliness. If it is beautiful and it performs, *then* you truly have a good idea.

You are not asking people to drop $50, you are asking them to drop $350. about 5 minutes ago you were asking them to drop $600. WTF? get a handle on this....I don't have a problem dropping $50 on an absolute punt...or even $350 if it's what I want...$600 is a bit more, but if I could see the drawings, the development process, the plans, the rejects, etc, then maybe. Set up a website with all of this stuff on, it would only cost you a couple hundred dollars. Hell, I'll do it for you if you like. Send me at least 10 pages of info about this frame and it's development, plenty of photos and images detailing the design process....and I'll do you a website for free. You can send me a frame as payment if and when you get them made.

Drop the attitude...you make it sound like we're all stupid for not jumping on this, and when people tell you of their genuine concerns, you rubbish them. Tell you what, I'm a musician, ok....I've got a great idea for an album. If 10,000 people give me 10 bucks each, I'll make the album - you'll love it! honestly, it's gonna be great! I know some amazing musicians, they'll play on it. really. It's probably gonna win a grammy. That's how good it will be. Seriously, that's how you're coming across right now.

If it wasn't for other respected forum members here speaking up for your credibility, I would be classifying you with the various emails I get from Nigeria telling me about how all I need to do is TRUST and I will be rich......

Ok, I can see I probably sound a little sarky here, but what do you expect...I hope you see this as the constructive criticism it is meant to be. I would love to see you win hearts and minds here and make this a reality......

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Re: The worlds best E-bike frame,price slashed! UPDATE

Postby Red_Liner740 » Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:33 am

I just wanna address this whole proper-ebikes-NEED-tons-of-battery-space-for-speed-and-range issue

Im sure there are tons of people here who could cram double the capacity of batteries on their bikes without any issues right now. I know i sure can. I can stuff 12 6S 5AH HK lipos in my battery case which would give me 40kmh at 48v and a range of approximately 60km.

I dont run that many lipos and for the same reason most ppl out there dont either. COST! I calculated my needs and bought enough. Seeing as how batteries have a shelf life whats the point of having HUGE amounts amount of batteries if u dont use themÉ (damn french keyboard!) and will have to be replaced in a few years.

That being said. Maybe u need to rename your frame to a utility designÉ

Cuz thats what it looks like, a utilty, cargo ebike.
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Re: The worlds best E-bike frame,price slashed! UPDATE

Postby MadRhino » Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:26 am

Hi Max
I take the time here to give my opinion about it, although we have discussed this project before.
As I said in the first place, I hope that you realize now that no single frame will make a concensus, for the best E-bike frame is different for each and no matter how hard you try, you will be criticised by the majority for the design that you chose.

I find that you are doing great already. You know that this frame will not suit me, but for the price that you plan to ask, this is going to make better E-bikes than most here succeded to build with their comparably priced donor bikes. You need to design and show some choice of plastic covers to hide the battery enclosures, that would at least smooth the aesthetic critics.

I have to agree that a prototype has to be made, that can be built and tested with various configurations, by various riders. My bikes are built on the most expansive DH racing frames, and still they need to pass by many prototype configurations before reaching proper handling as E-bikes. You will find many small things that need to be changed, once you build one and experiment. For this purpose, I suggest that you first work with an artisan custom frame builder, before exploring manufacturing and marketting avenues. You know that the best designer teams with big budget and manufacturing facilities, all end up modifying a frame design for many successive years before making it a winner, eventually.

Good luck with your project Max, E-bike community need people like you, who are not afraid to invest time and money to make it happen.
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Re: The worlds best E-bike frame,price slashed! UPDATE

Postby maxwell65 » Thu Jul 07, 2011 1:13 pm

hi all,

i really really appreciate all the comments and feel i have to mention some of your names with a gratitude of thanks in no particuler order,liveforphysics,slayer,TylerDurden,oldswamm,wingtip,ptd,jonathanm ,Red_Liner740,MadRhino, and all others whose names i have not mentioned all is very very much appreciated....as for the chromoly issue it seems that there are a few people voicing this concern,i for one have a mongoose bike 6061 aluminum frame,and i carry 26lbs of batts which happen to be sitting on a 6061 axiom bike rack,,,and before i had the lifepo4's i had 39lbs of sla's sitting on my mongoose and the frame since 2006 still holds up rock solid,,,granted i do not take this bike off 20 foot jumps but i have hit the occasional pothole with no ill effects to the frame,,,although the axiom rack did crack, it was replaced and if you look at the rack it is very small tubing yet it still holds up to great weight standards and you have to bear in mind the axiom im using is one of their cheaper models,35$,,,at this point i have been using this rack(since changing the cracked one) for 4yrs and its holding up great all told with batts and bags apx 30lbs on stringy 1/4 inch 6061 tubing (approximate guess on the tube size) the first rack i used back in 2006 looked way beefier then the axiom and broke apart within 2 weeks of use,,,,the other part of the chromoly issue is that their are certain members that want to be able to mod the frame and they cannot do so with the 6061 as easily as chromoly,,,to those people i say,,,why not just build a full frame out of chromoly if its so easy to modify? as far as im concerned the 6061 along with the 7075 will be plenty strong as i know first hand my mongoose frame is rock solid,,,,plus planes are made mostly of aluminum and we place our lives in those things. if we were building a dirt bike and taking jumps then we have to consider other materials,,,but in this case i feel the chromoly will just add weight to this frame for a very small percentage of strength gain.it has been made clear to me that the 6061 will be plenty strong and i know my mongoose sure holds up great.

lets address the fatigue issue,,,it has been explained to me the 6061 suffers almost no fatigue issues after thermal treatment and yet some people are complaining that it does suffer fatigue,,,,lets take this with a grain of salt,,,all materiel's will suffer fatigue issues and nothing is invincible,,,here on this forum their are those that test to extremes,nothing wrong with that,,,in the end its always good to know points of failure,,,once i have these frames made i will be curious to test them to POF by placing bags of sand or rocks or whatever in the battery spaces and driving around taking jumps and potholes and post results,,,but in the end we have to realize we are not building dirt bikes,,,these are electric bikes built for paved roads and in the end are simply not made to perform to dirt bike extremes.i think in the end if you start testing this bike to extremes either the actual hub motor will suffer damage first as we have to face the facts those are certainly not made to withstand taking jumps,or we the human will break our bones before the frame suffers,,,so just how strong does this frame have to be?

about the dropouts: you do not see all the details yet of exactly what design concepts are in this frame, and my designer is very well aware of the dropout issue and make no mistake,THE DROPOUTS HAVE REINFORCEMENTS TO THE MAXTHERE IS NO WAY THAT THE MOTORS WILL EAT THROUGH THESE DROPOUTS.PERIOD.

IN THE END THERE ARE VERY LEGITIMATE CONCERNS about this frame and i can go on all day here addressing all issues,,,,but in the end it amounts to this,,,it will be a great frame for the purpose it is designed for,,,i have no doubt that this bike is the greatest e-bike ever for many reasons, a practical E-bike with good speed or as much speed as a modder would like,great for hills,and great range possibilities at a very fair price, i have searched endlessly on the internet for E-bikes in general,,,,some guys out there want 12,000$ for their concept hand made e-bikes that this one will still blow away in terms of range and speed,,,,and yes of course you can use lipos to accomplish greater amounts of batteries in a smaller space,,,just be sure you know what your doing when charging those lipos or say bye bye to your house as it goes up in flames,,,,lipos should always be charged outdoors or in a space ready to accept consequences IMHO.i for one will stick with lifopo4.

no one so far has placed .10 cents on a deposit,,,some are on the fence and others want prototypes built first,,,yea i want a prototype too,,,but i know that in the end its a bike,,,not a Ferrari or a Porsche or a nuclear sub,,,,prototype will cost upwards of 10,000$ easy...all i ask is 25$ from 25 people and i will take the plunge. (not 10,000 people like the guy who promises to make a Grammy award winning record) that really gave me a good laugh and although was a good analogy,to be fair is a greatly exaggerated one.

in the end it may sound ludicrous to ask for such a deposit on such an expensive undertaking,,,but in my view as i stated before if 25 people are willing to buy this then i have a product i can take to market.
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Re: The worlds best E-bike frame,price slashed! UPDATE

Postby slayer » Thu Jul 07, 2011 2:25 pm

How long do we have to answer
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Re: The worlds best E-bike frame,price slashed! UPDATE

Postby amberwolf » Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:42 pm

The main problem you have here is that you want people to put down a deposit on an unknown.

Without actually building one and testing it, no one can know for certain how it will perform.

Even short of that, without knowing all of the details of it, such as your recently-mentioned dropout reinforcement, no one can know for certain how it might hold up to heavy-duty use. Not knowing all the details of something certainly makes it difficult to decide anything about it, much less to decide to spend money on it.

And even with the reinforcement, again without testing, no one can know for certain if that will really work under what might be termed "abusive conditions". :) If even frames like the Greyborg which were designed *and tested* for high-powered hubmotors have trouble, a completely untested and at least partly-undescribed frame is not likely to garner many followers.


You keep saying that this isn't a rocket or high-end vehicle, only a bike, but it doesn't matter--without testing at least *one* frame, the results of even typical usage cannot be known for certain. High-power use like you describe it being good for definitely can't be known without testing; even computerized structural and stress analysis cant' tell you everything, even if you have had this done. That's why people keep harping on the prototyping.

Here on ES, I think it's very difficult to get most of us to take *anyone's* word on something like an idea like this, given how many different types of riders and builders we have here. ;)


Totally separate from all of that, as MadRhino has pointed out (and others too, I think), no single frame type will work for all. To me it is not possible to have a "World's best E-bike frame" at all--there are too many different types of bike required for different things to ever do that, unless the whole frame is totally modular, which would not lend it much stiffness or toughness, most likely. :)

For instance, as a cargo bike this one would not suit my needs very well, especially for long ranges. I'd need one that (like my CrazyBike2 and my new work-in-progress bike) was suspended-mesh-seat, semi-recumbent, with at least 200lbs of large-volume cargo capacity on the sides; rear rack is not important (though useful if present, for a backpack or similar, when the side racks are full).

The only way to make it "best" for my purposes, in addition to the above, would be to:
--make parts of it modular, rather like the Xtracycle is, so I can use it with or without the side racks.
--have a trailer hitch (to haul at least another 500lbs of cargo in addition to the 200lbs minimum on the bike).
--have the battery space in the frame *below* the top tube, as my two semi-recumbents do (along the axle line).
--in addition to clamping dropouts front and rear, it would have to be able to easily mount various non-hub drives to it, in a way that easily allows a jackshaft to combine the motor and pedal outputs into one to run to the rear wheel.
--full suspension, adjustable by the rider without special tools (an airpump at most) for various loading and road conditions.
--Assuming a full bike is an option, it would also have to have full automotive-brightness lighting, including side-markers and turn signals and brake lights, at least as an available option if purchasing a complete bike.

Probably a lot of other things I'd require of a "best" frame, if I ever had the money to buy one instead of building it myself. ;)


So, you can see a bit of the problems you face here.


FWIW, I think the frame probably is a fine frame for a typical ebiker, certainly for ones just starting out in the field, converting over from regular bikes--it gives easy options for building a bike and mounting things that most regular bike frames do not.

But it isn't a perfect catch-all frame (and I don't think it's possible to make one, either), and there are too many details missing from the information so far provided to say if it is a really good frame or not, for many ebike purposes.
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Re: The worlds best E-bike frame,price slashed! UPDATE

Postby slayer » Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:24 pm

Yes you are right in not liking it AW but it dosen t mean anything to me what you said i had 2 all aluminuim frames in 6 years experience with no problem at all (and i will use the same power ) the only problem that i have is the weight in the back (batteries) and it s effect on rims and tires plus how many here use a bike frame and put batteries where ever they can find the room ...if there is a market let it be if not he will let it go thats all.


me the suggestions you put the x tracycle i dont like it and it will be the same with all the weight in the back (don t hit a put hole with that) but i don t go on those threads putting it down, you say about the greyborhg i don t see any sales threads i saw the build threads and it looks awesome but not available also must be expensive...so for 350 i would take the chance on this one and arrange to my liking ...plus the way it looks don t matter to me anymore cause the police seems to let go more when it looks granny lolll or you can make it look less granny i have all the componant fox float disk brake bottom braket so it s just the frame i need now if more people would chip in im sure he could come up with the product and deliver.

but now i understand the shy over this since everyone is putting it down ...i bet they don t even like it and they speak up ... me if i don t like something i don t say nothing...just watch it the thread and see if people chip in and say to yourself oh well i m surprise some guys like that duhh... we will put pics of or bikes and make some reviews if some like it they can go for the next gen with the improvment made by ther buyers onthe first wave ...
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Re: The worlds best E-bike frame,price slashed! UPDATE

Postby TylerDurden » Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:54 pm

slayer wrote: you say about the greyborhg i don t see any sales threads i saw the build threads and it looks awesome but not available also must be expensive.

First run (25 units) sold out.

"Brand new Greyborg RC frames with swingarm and canopy. The price is 450€ or 600$ + shipping.
If you buy frame you can get RockShox Boxxer Race 2010 brand new fork + Acor head set for 600$."



Edit to correct citation.
Last edited by TylerDurden on Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The worlds best E-bike frame,price slashed! UPDATE

Postby slayer » Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:57 pm

i say i don t see any sales threads right now
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Re: The worlds best E-bike frame,price slashed! UPDATE

Postby slayer » Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:06 pm

and i could be wrong but i think from memory it was 600.00 the greyborg ...when i go to a store i choose what i can afford sometimes i let go of the sony or the apple you know i compromise all the time...i m not rich and i like to have more than one thing
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Re: The worlds best E-bike frame,price slashed! UPDATE

Postby bongoboy » Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:31 pm

slayer wrote:and i could be wrong but i think from memory it was 600.00 the greyborg ...


Yes that's right and TD wrote...

TylerDurden wrote:Brand new Greyborg RC frames with swingarm and canopy. The price is 450€ or 600$ + shipping.


I think from memory this "worlds best E-bike frame" was priced at $600? So what's your point? One frame was made and sold and it seems to make a great ebike another appears to be a vapor-bike made by a vector monkey which includes a bunch of chickens? :roll:
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Re: The worlds best E-bike frame,price slashed! UPDATE

Postby amberwolf » Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:14 pm

slayer wrote:Yes you are right in not liking it AW but it dosen t mean anything to me what you said i had 2 all aluminuim frames in 6 years experience with no problem at all (and i will use the same power ) the only problem that i have is the weight in the back (batteries) and it s effect on rims and tires plus how many here use a bike frame and put batteries where ever they can find the room

I said absolutely nothing about the composition of the frames, aluminum or steel. Simply that we don't have enough information, and essentially asking for more.

I also didnt' say I didn't like it. I said that it is not the "best frame" for me or my needs, and probably for many others, thus that it cannot really be called "world's best E-bike frame" for that reason. Totally different from liking or not liking it.

If someone else built an Xtracycle-type-only ebike frame, and called that the World's Best Ebike, would you accept that it was, since you don't want that style? ;)

...if there is a market let it be if not he will let it go thats all.

The point of many of the responses he is getting (mine included) is that we (most of us) are trying to help him make the best frame he can, and/or determine if the frame he has already is best for our uses, because we'd all like a really good ebike-specific frame to be available, but it is tough/impossible to do that without more information, some of it very specific, that hasn't been provided. Helping him helps all of us.


me the suggestions you put the x tracycle i dont like it and it will be the same with all the weight in the back (don t hit a put hole with that) but i don t go on those threads putting it down,

I'm not putting his frame down, either. I'm pointing out to him the reasons why people are giving him the responses he is getting, as I am not sure that he yet understands, given his responses to those responses. Certainly, you're not understanding, which means it is quite possible he is not, either. ;)

i have all the componant fox float disk brake bottom braket so it s just the frame i need now if more people would chip in im sure he could come up with the product and deliver.

Well, from what he has said so far, no one has yet paid in. That means that, AFAICT from information yet provided, you haven't either. Does that mean that he hasn't received your payment yet, or are you also waiting for more information, or that you cant' afford it yet? ;)


I am not trying to do anything at all in this thread except to help Maxwell65 understand what is needed to convince people that could use this frame to go ahead and buy in, and to point out to him that it isnt' helping for him to call it Best when it is only best for a specific segment of ebikers.
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Re: The worlds best E-bike frame,price slashed! UPDATE

Postby slayer » Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:17 pm

i tried my best
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Re: The worlds best E-bike frame,price slashed! UPDATE

Postby slayer » Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:31 pm

to tell you the truth i am waiting for more info yeah thats right but i am close to let it go and received that for the winter project

maybe an official thread with a deadline and if nobody else buys by that date i want to be off...and no regrets cause i too have other priority
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Re: The worlds best E-bike frame,price slashed! UPDATE

Postby bigisland » Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:24 am

Dude totally nothing personal here obviously, but you need a reality check here if you are saying this:

about the dropouts: you do not see all the details yet of exactly what design concepts are in this frame,THE DROPOUTS HAVE REINFORCEMENTS TO THE MAX.


Its like stupid clear that the dropouts on that frame are the small hook style found on bicycles. This structure your designer chose is obvious from the pic of the frame.

my designer is very well aware of the dropout issue and make no mistake


You need a new designer. No one who would build a two vehicle with a 15 to 20 lb wheel driven by a motor would do a little hook like that. Sure nice heat treated forged hook style light weight steel petite drop outs are what you want for a vehicle in the Tour de France, and their going to hold the light weight rim and hub to your frame no question, your wheel will fail before the dropouts.

What you need to do (or some one who wants to build and sell a product like this ) is to make a totally kick ass design and then build it and show it, and if you have been successful, and made some thing really good, not just good in terms of some hype, you wont be here begging for money. Your creation will slowly take off, with a little marketing, if there is a demand for it. Well at least you not trying to sell Lipo powered potato peelers!
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Re: The worlds best E-bike frame,price slashed! UPDATE

Postby slayer » Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:38 am

Bigisland i am just replying here for fun like you say and you are right he clearly started this too early he should have started with more of a completed project thats it thats all...

i wonder if he can re start i personnaly don t think so but will see. As for the dropout i don t see what you mean and would not be afraid of them i rode 6 years on such dropout no problem
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Re: The worlds best E-bike frame,price slashed! UPDATE

Postby ptd » Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:00 am

has anyone considered the probable interference with the front battery basket with the use of triple forks? not that it would interfere with with a regular bikes (except for DHers) front suspension, but i think that realistically this is more likely a platform for a moped build, with the ability to build up, or down.

secondly, i seem to remember quite of a few responses of, i'll have that in the next couple of days. but i don't think i've seen any responses. it almost sounds like you're saying that because you think it's what someone wants to hear. i think anyone would want a response with figures, not some reassurance that you'll look into it. if you've been at this for a year (and you want to market it as bad as you do), you should be able to respond to these kinds of questions in your sleep.

would it maybe be correct to assume that this is not your design, and that you need time to figure it out, or get someone to make the changes? it would explain the seeming inability to produce revisions, with, say, the dropouts, which seem to be of great concern. i hear a lot of "this" bike, or design, and not a lot of "my" bike, or design. it could just be that you're an open source type of guy. i mean no offense, you could be the salesman, that's fine, but when asking for support, it's good to represent yourself accurately.

lastly, thanks for toning it down a bit, excitment about a project, is great. sounding frantic, and coming across as desperate, not so great. again, good luck
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Re: The worlds best E-bike frame,price slashed! UPDATE

Postby darkshirikens » Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:49 am

First off i like the idea of the frame, BUT as another member said the frame basically may not be for everyone or suitable for everyone needs like i personally might not want to take a dive off a cliff lol but i would like a bike that can handle atleast a nice size drop, I only have a few problems only cause I'm a big guy I'm 6'3" 380 and i think the frame will eventually fail on me right now i have a Steel Schwinn sidewinder bike from Walmart Ive been riding it for two years now without any signs of fatigue i "think if i should buy this bike it might not out last my Schwinn " but that's only a thought and not the real issue i have my thing is sourcing components to put on the bike like the forks,rear shocks etc .... Because they aren't standard bicycle components i would like to be able to shop anywhere to get what i need instead of one place if that wasn't the case then i would have less to say .

The issue i have is that if the frame should ever break aluminium is harder to fix or to get fixed in my opinion more businesses or atleast up here will fix steel with no problem ,ALSO not everyone setup is the same some people run more amps than others so that being said were back to the dropouts i know you said that the dropouts are "The dropouts have Reinforcements to the Max" My CONSCIOUS says if my motor doesn't get to the dropouts my Fat a** will lol !

In all seriousness i will put up the $25 OR $50 cause i like the idea and i know the risks only cause i LIKE the frame it looks rough but workable to what i would want it to be and from the idea can have potential so when i get money next week i'll put in the deposit and see what becomes of it .
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Next project on way: Crystalyte Ht rear 3525
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Re: The worlds best E-bike frame,price slashed! UPDATE

Postby jimw1960 » Fri Jul 08, 2011 2:23 pm

I'm considering it. I would need to see specs first, though. Size, dropout spacing, what kind of brakes will it accept, etc. Also a list of compatible parts would be good (i.e., what size rear shock, bottom bracket, headset, etc.). The previous estimates given for cost of forks and shocks are not realistic. Decent performing front forks alone will cost about $500.
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Re: The worlds best E-bike frame,price slashed! UPDATE

Postby chroot » Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:07 pm

Are you going consider make a Xtracycle or longtail bike style that capable haul 300-400lbs?
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