Moped Rims and Wheels, 36 hole, 16" 17" 18" 19"

Place for dealers to post items for sale.

Moped Rims and Wheels, 36 hole, 16" 17" 18" 19"

Postby johnrobholmes » Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:22 pm

Looking for a way to beef up your bike and gain confidence in the corners? Tired of getting flat tires from road debris? Ran through that stock rim in one season, or bent it in a pothole? Join me and many other Ebikers and use Moped rims and DOT rated tires on your machine! The majority of ebikers on this forum are building custom machines that are much heavier than bicycles. Why skimp on the wheels and accept what most hub motors are laced into- low grade aluminum hoops that crack fast. You can take advantage of the moped market and choose many tires in the 16 through 19" sizes with widths ranging from 2.25" to 3" wide.


I currently have steel 16x1.4 and 17x1.40 rims at a low price through my website, Holmesbikes.com.

We are also in the process of sourcing aluminum rims in 1.6 width. 18"s should be here within two weeks, 16, 17, and 19's will be here in about two months. Retail price is expected to be about $90. If enough people are interested I could offer a discounted presale 4 weeks before they land and after I have paid for the first run of 100. Color will be Black anodized. I will not offer a discounted price to another forum, or once the rims have landed.


If you have any questions, feel free to hit me up via my website contact. It is better than PMs here for me.



17" steel moped rim laced into a DMR revolver hub with 13ga spokes... I know you want it, cause it makes me drool too!

Image
_______________________
Image

Volt up, gear down!
http://www.HolmesBikes.com -- Custom 15 -12ga spokes and Moped rims
User avatar
johnrobholmes
10 GW
10 GW
 
Posts: 4329
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 2:19 pm
Location: Missouri

Re: Moped Rims and Wheels, 36 hole, 16" 17" 18" 19"

Postby Whiplash » Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:31 pm

Maybe a list of theoretical floor to top of tire sizes for the moped moons like me?!
Power is a fascinating thing, the more you have, the more you want, but the real power is having the restraint not to use it all at once...............Um...Yeah..

The harder you work.....The luckier you get!!

"People who say it can't be done are often interrupted by those that have already figured out how to do it!"

Email me @ currentcycles@gmail.com
OR check out http://www.CurrentCycles.net
User avatar
Whiplash
1 GW
1 GW
 
Posts: 3079
Joined: Mon May 10, 2010 2:55 pm

Re: Moped Rims and Wheels, 36 hole, 16" 17" 18" 19"

Postby johnrobholmes » Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:44 pm

Ones I know of, many listed on treatland.tv for reasonable prices. More on motorcyclesuperstore as well. Width is exact, DOT tires are actually the width they say!


Some sizes I know are common and, from memory. 17x 2.5 is my favorite all around. I would suggest between 2.5 and 3.0 on a 1.6" rim, but you could get away with others.
16x 2.25, 2.5, 2.75, 3.0
17x2.25, 2.5, 2.75, 3.0
18x2.25, 2.5, 2.75, 3.0, 3.5
19x 2.0, 2.25, 2.5, 2.75, 3.5


This is one tire that comes in a lot of sizes, and it is dual sport http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/2/ ... =SLIsearch
_______________________
Image

Volt up, gear down!
http://www.HolmesBikes.com -- Custom 15 -12ga spokes and Moped rims
User avatar
johnrobholmes
10 GW
10 GW
 
Posts: 4329
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 2:19 pm
Location: Missouri

Re: Moped Rims and Wheels, 36 hole, 16" 17" 18" 19"

Postby gestalt » Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:13 pm

What a great deal John! I'm happy to see vendors here with moped rims laced into bike hubs with big beefy spokes. I wish these were around a couple years ago. Just for my back wheel it was $110 for the 26" large marge, about $38 for the 12ga spokes from my main man JRH, $25 for a choppersUS xtra wide FW/disk hub and another $20 for a maxxis hookworm that I got a killer deal on. A total $180 all in all, you could have one of these for $115 with tire and be rolling safe and legal for moped status.

Any idea what the diameter of these are with tires mounted? I've been looking to see if a dot approved tire would fit into a 24" large marge rim, but these might be a great alternative.
- be seeing you
Image
User avatar
gestalt
10 kW
10 kW
 
Posts: 873
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:55 pm
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Moped Rims and Wheels, 36 hole, 16" 17" 18" 19"

Postby johnrobholmes » Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:22 pm

Most of these tires are about 80% height to width ratio, so something like a 17x 2.5 is going to be 21" ish. We need a database for all the tires out there really, every one will be a bit different. As they come through my hands I will start measuring tires and making a spreadsheet.


MTB tires are pretty steep compared to moped tires. Maybe it is the size of the molds, or lower volume, or whatever. Rubber for Rubber a DOT tire is generally a lot better value.
_______________________
Image

Volt up, gear down!
http://www.HolmesBikes.com -- Custom 15 -12ga spokes and Moped rims
User avatar
johnrobholmes
10 GW
10 GW
 
Posts: 4329
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 2:19 pm
Location: Missouri

Re: Moped Rims and Wheels, 36 hole, 16" 17" 18" 19"

Postby Chalo » Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:47 pm

It's nice to have choices, but this is really a step backwards from quality bicycle stuff in terms of total weight, strength-to-weight, stiffness-to-weight, rolling resistance, serviceability, and brake versatility at least. In return for these tradeoffs, you can get marginal improvements in total strength and stiffness, plus lots of DOT rated tires to choose from in the event that helps you register or insure your e-bike. I don't think the benefits are worth it.

The Surly Large Marge MTB rim is 65mm (2-9/16") in width, double walled for strength and stiffness, comes in 24" and 26" sizes (20" and 22" in motorcycle lingo) and weighs 1150g (2-1/2 pounds). That, plus a Schwalbe Big Apple or Maxxis Hookworm tire, is an intelligent way to get all the benefits of moped wheels without the weight and crudity.

Fat spokes are just a coping tool for poor build technique. I weigh over 330 lbs now (and more than 400 in the past) while riding road bikes on city streets and carrying loads on them. Some of my longest lasting wheels-- that have required no repairs whatsoever-- use 15-16ga and 14-17ga spokes. Not only are these spokes reliable, but unlike Lincoln Logs of 13 gauge or thicker, they stay tight without threadlock and don't require periodic retensioning.

Remember if you're lacing to a bicycle hub, the strength of those spoke flanges and the capacity of its axles and bearings will become the limiting factors! These are not high enough to exploit the potential of motorcycle rolling stock. It's not more convenient to break a reamed-out spoke flange than it is to break a spoke.

Motorcycle parts are for motorcycles. If you use some motorcycle parts and some bicycle parts, your bike will still be limited to the capacities of its bicycle parts. It will just be needlessly heavy and clunky in other regards.

Chalo
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.
User avatar
Chalo
100 GW
100 GW
 
Posts: 5355
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:29 pm
Location: Austin, Texas

Re: Moped Rims and Wheels, 36 hole, 16" 17" 18" 19"

Postby full-throttle » Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:55 pm

Chalo got a point

Surely those rims are tough as - you could probably run into a kerb and ride away, but on a bicycle something else will give

I'm using Mavic EX729 with DT spokes and Schwalbe tyres. The rear wheel has a slight wobble after being run over by a car, the front has 2 bent spokes after an angry golfer whacked it, still pretty straight though. 4 punctures in 23,000km on BigApples. And the best thing - I can still pedal it!
User avatar
full-throttle
10 MW
10 MW
 
Posts: 2106
Joined: Thu May 07, 2009 8:21 pm
Location: N-E Victoria, AUS

Re: Moped Rims and Wheels, 36 hole, 16" 17" 18" 19"

Postby ohzee » Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:59 pm

This sounds great and I am very interested.

You may have covered this as well , but if I use a 26" wheel 2.5 atm what should I use in a moped rim size ?

Sorry if this has been covered.
User avatar
ohzee
10 MW
10 MW
 
Posts: 2234
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:13 pm
Location: Columbus Ohio USA

Re: Moped Rims and Wheels, 36 hole, 16" 17" 18" 19"

Postby johnrobholmes » Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:46 am

I agree that too fat of spokes are bad. This isn't a pitch for fat spokes however, this is just an option for more rims. Spokes should always be the weakest link, I won't build a bicycle hub with fatter than 13ga, nor do I ream out spoke holes. But when people want to use a 20lb+ hub motor with 4mm spoke holes you can't just shim up a 14ga spoke and hope the washers hold. I don't care how thin of a spoke is used, such a wheel will never stay true! Nor can we lace up a large diameter hub (x5, cromotor, 9c) into a bicycle rim without getting nasty bends at the nipple, a frequent point of breakage. Want to use a small tire and get better efficiency at higher voltages? BMX rim eh? Oh wait, we have to radial lace these. What a bad choice! On any high power hub motor it makes angled eyelets the natural choice, and moped rims virtually eliminate breakage at the nipple in these cases while allowing for at least one cross patterns. We aren't talking about 20mph bikes here, we are talking 30mph plus and in many cases 40mph plus. This isn't a wheel for everybody, and certainly not for somebody wanting supreme pedaling efficiency and light weight. This is for people with electric mopeds, commuters that need more reliability from tires and will take a weight penalty for the thicker carcasses. They are the middle weight step child that bridges the gap between motorcycle and bicycle. Maybe others can ignore the need, but I won't.


I see the point on why and when moped parts are a bad choice. On a 750w bike there is no reason to use heavier parts. I got tired of replacing hookworms on my 40mph bike and wondering when broken glass was going to end my fun. Maybe some people don't worry about these things.

A 19 will be closest to 26" size without getting nutty on the tire weight. A 21 with a 2.5" tire would be right there, but I don't of of any tires like that.



It won't hurt my feelings if nobody wants moped rims here, even though 70% of my wheelbuilds are just that. The other moped riders of the world will thank you for saving more rims for them!
_______________________
Image

Volt up, gear down!
http://www.HolmesBikes.com -- Custom 15 -12ga spokes and Moped rims
User avatar
johnrobholmes
10 GW
10 GW
 
Posts: 4329
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 2:19 pm
Location: Missouri

Re: Moped Rims and Wheels, 36 hole, 16" 17" 18" 19"

Postby voicecoils » Fri Jan 13, 2012 3:59 am

I'm really glad to see these options becoming easy for us to buy. People are building all sorts of spoked wheel vehicles on E-S, not just bicycles. There also aren't heaps of people with bicycle and moped/motorcycle wheelbuilding experience who are freely sharing their advise and also sourcing & selling parts like JRH.

A few things I imagine other wheelbuilders would agree on with respect to building good wheels are:

* spoke material & manufacture must be high quality (making a crap material spoke fatter is a bad solution)
* the interface between the spoke head and hub flange hole should be tight, the less movement of the spoke in the hub flange hole, the better.
* spokes and nipples should join at the same angle. A spoke that's bent entering the nipple will likely fail there.
* spoke crosses increase wheel strength. However, increasing the number of crosses can negatively affect spoke & nipple angles described above.
* adequately high and even spoke tension must be maintained for wheel integrity

The moped rims and fatter spokes have a weight penalty but they carry benefits that JRH has already put forward including:

* the rim is manufactured to permit nipples to lie at an angle such that even with a large diameter hub (or big motorcycle drum brake) 1 or more spoke crosses is possible.
* the rim accepts fatter spoke nipples (compared to drilling out a bicycle rim which can weaken it)
* fat spokes (low gauge) are necessary if you want to use the existing massive hub flange holes that many hubmotors have

There's no clear answer on where to draw the line between bicycle - ebike - moped - motorcycle & choosing the ideal wheel within these blurred lines isn't easy either.

All this is probably getting a bit OT to the sale thread though, sorry!
User avatar
voicecoils
10 MW
10 MW
 
Posts: 2288
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2007 6:31 am
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Re: Moped Rims and Wheels, 36 hole, 16" 17" 18" 19"

Postby teklektik » Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:51 am

Chalo wrote:It's nice to have choices, but this is really a step backwards from quality bicycle stuff... Motorcycle parts are for motorcycles. If you use some motorcycle parts and some bicycle parts, your bike will still be limited to the capacities of its bicycle parts. It will just be needlessly heavy and clunky in other regards.

Hmmmm - motors are motorcycle parts. Weight conservatism simply needs to switch from grams to the more appropriate ounces or pounds. Many of the designs here aren't bicycles and aren't motorcycles - they are crossover vehicles with unique stresses and design requirements that are not well addressed by either parent vehicle. This forum seems to be about inventive solutions in an evolving market that can't readily supply what is desired. It's about using quality technology where you can find it. Purism doesn't seem the path to opening our solution horizons - particularly when we have already so obviously crossed the line...
Visit Grin Technologies at www.ebikes.ca
Build Thread: 2WD Yuba Mundo V4
User avatar
teklektik
1 GW
1 GW
 
Posts: 3314
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2011 1:15 pm
Location: CT, USA

Re: Moped Rims and Wheels, 36 hole, 16" 17" 18" 19"

Postby Whiplash » Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:02 am

What I was asking for is a list of heights to wheel sizes so we moons can decide how close to a 26" we want to get.. like 19" moped with tire="x" MTB wheel with tire
Power is a fascinating thing, the more you have, the more you want, but the real power is having the restraint not to use it all at once...............Um...Yeah..

The harder you work.....The luckier you get!!

"People who say it can't be done are often interrupted by those that have already figured out how to do it!"

Email me @ currentcycles@gmail.com
OR check out http://www.CurrentCycles.net
User avatar
Whiplash
1 GW
1 GW
 
Posts: 3079
Joined: Mon May 10, 2010 2:55 pm

Re: Moped Rims and Wheels, 36 hole, 16" 17" 18" 19"

Postby johnrobholmes » Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:17 am

Whiplash wrote:What I was asking for is a list of heights to wheel sizes so we moons can decide how close to a 26" we want to get.. like 19" moped with tire="x" MTB wheel with tire



Ahhh, that seems less silly :lol: We will work on it!
_______________________
Image

Volt up, gear down!
http://www.HolmesBikes.com -- Custom 15 -12ga spokes and Moped rims
User avatar
johnrobholmes
10 GW
10 GW
 
Posts: 4329
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 2:19 pm
Location: Missouri

Re: Moped Rims and Wheels, 36 hole, 16" 17" 18" 19"

Postby oatnet » Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:37 pm

Great Options, John!

We aren't talking about 20mph bikes here, we are talking 30mph plus and in many cases 40mph plus.


... and there are cases where doubling that, 80mph plus, has been done or is in the works. Thanks for bringing newer better options! I am really impressed you found an 18" rim, I was searching forever for them, so I could run a 17" rear and 18" front, but put both on Gazelles.

-JD
Member 117 of 26,000+

153v DUNE BUGGY © 164v Vectrix E-Moto © 72v Norco A-line/x5403 © 60v Specialized Enduro Comp/BMC © 72v x5tracycle © 48v TF IO/BMC © 36v Kepler FrictionDrive © Spot-Welding a123 © Pelican Front Packs © Vectrix Battery Replacement © MORE !!


Image大鸡巴 Motors
Knowledge is acquired through experience, everything else is just information - Albert Einstein
"Cheater?" I'm not competing, I'm Commuting!
User avatar
oatnet
100 MW
100 MW
 
Posts: 2913
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2007 3:03 pm
Location: SoCal, USA

Re: Moped Rims and Wheels, 36 hole, 16" 17" 18" 19"

Postby grindz145 » Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:04 pm

John this is really awesome! The ebike Hack scene needs to get real component wise, and the tire selection is one of the most limiting factors right now. Some real wheels is EXACTLY what the scene needs, and it looks like your providing them at a reasonable price.

Is the price including the DMR hub?

You'll be hearing from me for sure for my latest project!
User avatar
grindz145
1 GW
1 GW
 
Posts: 3289
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:10 pm
Location: Rochester NY

Re: Moped Rims and Wheels, 36 hole, 16" 17" 18" 19"

Postby Alan B » Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:55 pm

I think moped rims are probably appropriate for the Cromotor and Grayborg crowd and I'm planning to use them. I hate flats, especially when commuting!
User avatar
Alan B
100 GW
100 GW
 
Posts: 6613
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 7:43 am
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, USA

Re: Moped Rims and Wheels, 36 hole, 16" 17" 18" 19"

Postby amberwolf » Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:12 am

So I have the following three used but good-enough-for-me tires:

PIRELLI: Diablo Strada
Tubeless Radial 1257
180/55 ZR17 M/C (73W)

DUNLOP: K555
Tubeless Radial 6707
170/70 B16 M/C 75H

MICHELIN: Pilot Road
Tubeless Radial
150/70 ZR17 M/C 75R

full data here:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 54#p508254

The narrowest is what I'd prefer to use, which is the Michelin, just because it makes it easier to get chain past it. :) If I had narrower or lighter tires maybe i'd use them, but this is what i've got.

It's probably too wide for your current rims, but maybe would work on the ones you might be getting? I'd be up for used rims, too, (actually preferable keeping with the project goals, but unlikely you have any; can't find anyone willing to sell me a used one around here yet either).

I guess I would have to measure the MC hubs I have to get you dimensions to figure spoke lengths / costs.
User avatar
amberwolf
100 GW
100 GW
 
Posts: 22234
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:43 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group

Re: Moped Rims and Wheels, 36 hole, 16" 17" 18" 19"

Postby Alan B » Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:40 am

Just measured my new Michelins:

M62 Gazelle 2.5-17 measure 21-3/4" diameter unmounted and just over 9-1/2 pounds a pair. The tubes are just over a pound each.
User avatar
Alan B
100 GW
100 GW
 
Posts: 6613
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 7:43 am
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, USA

Re: Moped Rims and Wheels, 36 hole, 16" 17" 18" 19"

Postby dogman dan » Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:41 am

Chalo would understand this better, after he wears out a set of tires in an afternoon, running a 50 mph bike around the track.

Honestly, bicycle doesn't describe the use. Bike tires don't cut it for the 40 and 50 mph club.
For those that still don't know, I work online, for E-bikekit.com

Frankenbike longtail
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... cing+betty.

bolt on longtail viewtopic.php?f=6&t=74584

The mixte long tail. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=74384

Beach cruiser converted to long tail. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=67049&p=1045572&hilit=Longtail+beach+cruiser#p1045572
User avatar
dogman dan
100 GW
100 GW
 
Posts: 33516
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 12:53 pm
Location: Las Cruces New Mexico USA

Re: Moped Rims and Wheels, 36 hole, 16" 17" 18" 19"

Postby RallySTX » Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:47 pm

I can vouche for that statement. They don't have the nuts for the wear. JRH will be getting some business from me someday as well.
Brian L.
Last edited by RallySTX on Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Brian Larson CST. KC9DAK.
Janesville WI.
2005 Schwinn Stingray Spoiler
2004 Schwinn Stingray OCC. The Stripper.
Build thread
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=22134&p=322312
Web. http://www.wix.com/brian_larson/rallystx128hhj

Image

Image
User avatar
RallySTX
10 kW
10 kW
 
Posts: 838
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:29 am
Location: Janesville WI.

Re: Moped Rims and Wheels, 36 hole, 16" 17" 18" 19"

Postby zombiess » Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:05 am

Moped rims are really the best for high power if you want small diameter wheel (I'm a small wheel high voltage lover). I'm keeping a close eye on my 20" bmx (16" moped size) wheel laced to my Cromotor because the brace angle (spoke entering the nipple) is at the max and the brass nipple could crack. A 16" moped rim would eliminate this possible issue. John even mentioned this to me in one of my posts as did my builder. A moped wheel would have eliminated this issue all together since they have angled eyelets.

Image

Sorry if the pic makes you cringe John, I know you don't like it but it is what it is for now.
zombiess
1 GW
1 GW
 
Posts: 3276
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:16 am
Location: Ventura

Re: Moped Rims and Wheels, 36 hole, 16" 17" 18" 19"

Postby biohazardman » Sun Jan 22, 2012 7:45 pm

zombiess wrote:Moped rims are really the best for high power if you want small diameter wheel (I'm a small wheel high voltage lover). I'm keeping a close eye on my 20" bmx (16" moped size) wheel laced to my Cromotor because the brace angle (spoke entering the nipple) is at the max and the brass nipple could crack. A 16" moped rim would eliminate this possible issue. John even mentioned this to me in one of my posts as did my builder. A moped wheel would have eliminated this issue all together since they have angled eyelets.

Image

Sorry if the pic makes you cringe John, I know you don't like it but it is what it is for now.


Ouch. :shock: it hurts just looking at those spokes but you got the eylets in the rims so really difficult to do it different. At the speeds you are going it would be good if you could do better. I don't have the eyelets so drilled my rims to the angle of my spokes so they could be straight. Then again looks like the moped stuff is in yer future. Be safe
Build it like your life depends on it. Cuz it does.
Golden Motor Schwinn first build http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=279.0
Giant BMC build viewtopic.php?f=6&t=235&start=390
Short ride vids viewtopic.php?f=3&t=20346&start=60#p321703
User avatar
biohazardman
100 kW
100 kW
 
Posts: 1427
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 5:28 pm
Location: Portland,Oregon USA

Re: Moped Rims and Wheels, 36 hole, 16" 17" 18" 19"

Postby biohazardman » Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:39 pm

I think that the moped rims will be great and far safer for those who are pushing the envelope with the bicycle stuff especially with the better quality tires available for the rims. As far as spoke sizes go in a decent quality spoke thicker is stronger. Bicycles have skinny spokes and lower loads, mopeds have thicker spokes and a heavier loads, motorcycles are even thicker and cars well it's not a mute point that thicker spokes are stronger in a properly built wheel. It is however difficult to build a decent wheel with the hub motors we use often being so big. Like others have said it would be nice if we had bicycle rims with the angled eyelets like the mopeds and motorcycles have as drilling bicycle rims is tedious work and can weaken things. Let the bullet proof wheel builds begin.
Build it like your life depends on it. Cuz it does.
Golden Motor Schwinn first build http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=279.0
Giant BMC build viewtopic.php?f=6&t=235&start=390
Short ride vids viewtopic.php?f=3&t=20346&start=60#p321703
User avatar
biohazardman
100 kW
100 kW
 
Posts: 1427
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 5:28 pm
Location: Portland,Oregon USA

Re: Moped Rims and Wheels, 36 hole, 16" 17" 18" 19"

Postby Hyena » Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:49 pm

Chalo wrote:24" and 26" sizes (20" and 22" in motorcycle lingo)

Can John or someone else confirm that a 20" motorcycle tyre will indeed fit properly on a 24" bicycle rim ?
20" doesn't seem to be a common size but I'll keep my eye out for some locally if they can be shoe horned onto my 39mm wide sun double tracks
(sorry a bit OT)
www.HyenaElectricBikes.com
Aussie high powered e-bike kits and custom performance ebikes
New FUTR and Hyena special edition Beta frames now available!
My build and HD video thread____. My youtube channel____ Hyena Facebook page
My bike is writing cheques my body can't cash...
User avatar
Hyena
100 GW
100 GW
 
Posts: 5953
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:10 am
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Moped Rims and Wheels, 36 hole, 16" 17" 18" 19"

Postby Chalo » Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:20 am

biohazardman wrote:As far as spoke sizes go in a decent quality spoke thicker is stronger.

Yes, but spokes don't carry wheel loads-- they only carry preload. They only have to be strong enough for their preload. The rim carries the load. A thinner spoke is more elastic and thus able to follow a rim more faithfully as it moves under load, without becoming loose or failing to support the rim.

Bicycles have skinny spokes and lower loads,

Tandems? Triplets? Quads? Quints? They use 14ga or 14/15ga spokes too, just like regular single bikes. They just use stronger rims and slightly higher spoke counts (48 instead of 36). The bike in the picture below is spec'ed with spokes that are 14ga (2.0mm) or 15ga (1.8mm) in the middle, depending on wheel size. I'm guessing the folks at Santana Tandems have a little more experience and proven success with carrying heavy loads on bike wheels than anyone here:

http://santanatandem.com/Bikes/QuadEtc.html
Image

When you beef up the rim, the structural demands on the spokes become smaller. That's why the folks at Shimano were able to design this wheelset for Santana tandems:

http://santanatandem.com/Techno/Sweet16.html
Image

I think there are practical reasons to use more than 16 spokes per wheel, but this is a good demonstration that the wheel's strength is not in its spokes.

mopeds have thicker spokes and a heavier loads, motorcycles are even thicker and cars well it's not a mute point that thicker spokes are stronger in a properly built wheel.

It is a fact that thick-spoked moped, motorcycle, and car wheels have lower strength-to-weight and stiffness-to-weight ratios than ordinary bicycle wheels. They might be ten times stronger, but only by being twenty times heavier. That's not a smart way to build anything. Moto wheels are the way they are mainly so that they'll be cheap for the manufacturer (even if building them the same way is not so cheap for us). Since we here are willing to spend what it takes in money and effort to do the job right, we should be using proper design and engineering, not just pig iron.

It is however difficult to build a decent wheel with the hub motors we use often being so big. Like others have said it would be nice if we had bicycle rims with the angled eyelets like the mopeds and motorcycles have as drilling bicycle rims is tedious work and can weaken things.

Cross-1 lacing usually does the trick, unless the rim is too small for the motor, or the spoke nipples are too fat for the holes in the rim. Since cross-1 and radial lacing pull outward from the hub flange, there's another reason to use normal thin spokes. The hub flange holes can be smaller and the variations in tension from riding much less abrupt than that of thicker spokes, so the hub flanges are less likely to break. For the same reasons, thinner spokes are less likely to crack rims at the spoke holes.

I have a few new old stock Araya 20" bicycle rims that have deep dimples with angled spoke holes. It's not a bad idea in principle, but it limits the lacing patterns you can use on a given rim. In the case of the 36 hole rims I have, they can only be laced up cross-2, -3, or -4 in a plain alternating pattern on a normal sized hub. The holes would have to be angled much more than they are to fit a hub motor that's more than half the diameter of the rim.

You can get a wider range of insertion angle if you use normal 14ga or 15ga spoke nipples, rather than fatties that don't have room to gimbal in the rim holes. Spherical headed nipples help a little bit too, compared with conical headed ones.

Chalo
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.
User avatar
Chalo
100 GW
100 GW
 
Posts: 5355
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:29 pm
Location: Austin, Texas

Next

Return to Items for Sale - New

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests