Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

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Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by jonescg » Oct 13 2017 9:33am

Wooop!
Cells are in!
LiPo arrived.jpg
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Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by jonescg » Nov 07 2017 3:56am

I've started putting a couple of packs together already - but I do have about 280 spare cells so if anyone wants a pack just let me know.

I also have some good pricing on 7 Ah pouch cells. These are a high energy density but low C-rate cell, perfect for range. They will work out to about AUD$20 each + GST.
Minimum order is 1000 cells, so there would need to be quite some interest...

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Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by jonescg » Dec 19 2017 9:18am

Hi all,

I'm putting a small order together for some 18650 cells. I don't normally work with cylindrical cells, but a particular project has popped up where they will be good enough for the job. I can get any number of the following:

Panasonic NCR18650GA 3500 mAh (10A max current - and even then that's pretty generous)
Sony US18650VTC6 3000 mAh (30A max current)
Samsung INR18650-30Q 3000 mAh (15A max current)
LG18650HG2 3000 mAh (20A max current)

Price is about AUD$4.50 each landed, but will confirm once I have some numbers.
Let me know if your're interested!

Chris

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Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by jonescg » Jan 01 2018 8:53am

A 2 kWh battery for a Motard project. It's not as crazy high power as most - maybe a top speed of 100 km/h, but heaps of fun!
2 x 14s2p RHS.jpg
2 x 14s2p RHS.jpg (213.64 KiB) Viewed 1691 times
2 x 14s4p LHS.jpg
2 x 14s4p LHS.jpg (187.75 KiB) Viewed 1691 times
This will be going inside an aluminium enclosure (with plenty of thermally conductive encapsulant) for better cooling since it will probably be hit pretty hard.

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Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by alec » Jan 01 2018 4:08pm

Gorgeous work! That cable management on the BMS’s makes me drool.
❝ With great power comes an even greater PG&E bill.
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Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by jonescg » Feb 17 2018 8:17am

This pack is finally going together.
Kapton in.jpg
Kapton in.jpg (201.99 KiB) Viewed 1506 times
I was sent a sample of some of DuPont's latest Kapton - it has a thermal conductivity of 0.8 W/m.K which is about 7 times better than the regular stuff. It's also very thin. I just used contact adhesive spray to put it in place. I also have some thermally conductive, electrically isolating epoxy which will fill in the gaps and keep the pack snug inside it's aluminium enclosure. Yes, this will be a permanent battery. Now is the time to make any final adjustments!

Plan is to provide a decent thermal path from the hot cells to the outside of the pack where convection can do it's job.

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Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by Arlo1 » Feb 17 2018 11:04am

What BMSs are those?
My Leaf motor controller build. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 27#p963227
My YSR build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRo8r5g4NBg
RC and most types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages charging and discharging.
Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
Support me on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/user/posts?u=6842045
http://www.undergroundelectrics.ca/

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Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by jonescg » Feb 17 2018 9:04pm

Arlo1 wrote:
Feb 17 2018 11:04am
What BMSs are those?
ZEVA. Ian Hooper also lives in Perth - good bit of kit but the quiescent current is higher than I'd like for small capacity packs.

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Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by jonescg » Feb 17 2018 10:31pm

Battery potted.jpg
Battery potted.jpg (208.19 KiB) Viewed 1464 times
Well that was stressful. Thermal epoxy ensures its permanent; no going back.

Despite all the efforts to keep it isolated, I'm still measuring a few volts between the terminals and the case. It rapidly diminishes so it could be a capacitive thing. That's why I like polycarbonate I guess...

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Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by Arlo1 » Feb 17 2018 11:10pm

Its very likely capacitive my car does that you need to be careful but its likely ok.
My Leaf motor controller build. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 27#p963227
My YSR build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRo8r5g4NBg
RC and most types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages charging and discharging.
Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
Support me on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/user/posts?u=6842045
http://www.undergroundelectrics.ca/

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Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by jonescg » Feb 17 2018 11:12pm

Zero packs are potted inside aluminium cases too aren't they? My first bike has this problem - I'd get shocks off it all the time. That's why I went to polycarb enclosures...

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Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by Arlo1 » Feb 18 2018 12:01am

There is a way to design it out. Polycarbonate absorbs water over time and becomes conductive.
My Leaf motor controller build. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 27#p963227
My YSR build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRo8r5g4NBg
RC and most types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages charging and discharging.
Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
Support me on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/user/posts?u=6842045
http://www.undergroundelectrics.ca/

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Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by jonescg » Feb 18 2018 12:06am

I think the Kapton and potting compounds are probably the best way to go about it for now. And perhaps a 100 ohm resistor between the negative terminal and the chassis to ground any build up. This enclosure was also a very tight fit. If I'd made it a little bigger and used more potting compound to fill out the gaps it would probably be better still, but the thermal path is worse.

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Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by Arlo1 » Feb 18 2018 1:28am

jonescg wrote:
Feb 18 2018 12:06am
. And perhaps a 100 ohm resistor between the negative terminal and the chassis to ground any build up.
I don't recommend that!

Any time the chassis is connected to either side of the pack its potential for all kinds of problems including threats to life safety.

I touched the precharge side of the 1kohm resistor I had for bench tests with the other hand on 230v + and it hurt like hell. That was with dry hands etc. 1 100ohm resistor has potential for enough to stop a heart for sure.
My Leaf motor controller build. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 27#p963227
My YSR build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRo8r5g4NBg
RC and most types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages charging and discharging.
Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
Support me on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/user/posts?u=6842045
http://www.undergroundelectrics.ca/

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Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by jonescg » Feb 18 2018 9:33pm

Couple of shots of the battery potted inside the enclosure:
Potted2.jpg
Potted2.jpg (192.92 KiB) Viewed 1420 times
Potted1.jpg
Potted1.jpg (192.09 KiB) Viewed 1420 times
Just got to get the final terminations made through the Delrin and we're gold.

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Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by sacko » Feb 25 2018 11:01pm

These boards look excellent!

I am looking to do a 13s2p config using Turnigy 1s 5000 20c cells.

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-500 ... -cell.html

Are you able to supply a PCB for that setup by any chance?

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Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by jonescg » Feb 25 2018 11:57pm

I'll have a look for what boards I have in the 42 mm wide range. I did get some made up a long time back.

I mainly have PCBs and copper matching the Turnigy 40C cells (9 mm thick, 50 mm wide, 135 mm long)

Are you stuck with the 42 mm wide cell or can you spare the room for a 50 mm wide cell?

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Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by sacko » Feb 27 2018 7:23pm

The room isn't an issue, but I can't get hold of the 40c cells over here it would seem.

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Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by jonescg » Feb 27 2018 8:08pm

sacko wrote:
Feb 27 2018 7:23pm
The room isn't an issue, but I can't get hold of the 40c cells over here it would seem.
Hmm strange. I have some cells here but it would not be easy to ship them to you (no to mention expensive).
I can't find those 42 mm wide boards, but I've not had a thorough look. I may have discarded them because I found I can get custom cells made to match the 50 mm wide dimensions, but the minimum order is like, 1000 cells or so.

Will let you know either way.

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Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by Jaack » Feb 28 2018 1:04pm

hey Chris...been reading the posts(impressive packs) and i a bit concerned with the turdgy 20c 5ah cells with the puffing issue..is this the norm with these cells..im considering a 21s 4p x2 for a total of 40ah for a kart build.i may be able to source some a123 systems 20ah cells for 17.85 each..don't know if i trust the source though...tell me what you think...https://www.albania.com/product-detail/ ... 4.....they don't usually sell the cells separate out side of a pack but are going to sell me separate cells anyhow. herewin has the 30c cells for $8.00ea+ $270us shipping for 168x cells to US ..if i take a chance with the a123 cells ill need a board for connections...tell me if this would work ....take a length of acetal sheet and cut slots for the tabs with a table saw then insert the tabs through the slots and bend the tabs over the top of bolted down bus bars then sandwiching the tabs with the bus bars and join each connection with solder...
Last edited by Jaack on Mar 01 2018 11:25am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by jonescg » Feb 28 2018 8:16pm

Turnigy cells from Hobbyking are not the best quality cells. They are all made in the same factories, but Turnigy-branded stuff is generally not the best. They will puff under normal use - the FEP cells I've tested don't puff at all, or at least not for a long while anyway.
A123 pouch cells are okay, I haven't worked with them for a while. But it's easy enough to devise a board with nuts on the back for terminating as I did here with the large NMC cells.
Herewin have been good in the past, but I found FEP cells to be a bit more consistent. It's all a bit of a gamble, but so far I'm content with them.
The only place I use solder now is for holding the nuts on the backs of the boards.

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Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by Jaack » Mar 01 2018 5:41am

jonescg wrote:
Feb 28 2018 8:16pm
Turnigy cells from Hobbyking are not the best quality cells. They are all made in the same factories, but Turnigy-branded stuff is generally not the best. They will puff under normal use - the FEP cells I've tested don't puff at all, or at least not for a long while anyway.
A123 pouch cells are okay, I haven't worked with them for a while. But it's easy enough to devise a board with nuts on the back for terminating as I did here with the large NMC cells.
Herewin have been good in the past, but I found FEP cells to be a bit more consistent. It's all a bit of a gamble, but so far I'm content with them.
The only place I use solder now is for holding the nuts on the backs of the boards.
do you have 22s 4p x2 boards available for sale along with the bus bars and push nuts? if so how would one order a set.... with pricing? does the boards come with the nuts solderd on,id like to avoid soldering if i could what are "NMC" cells?...

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Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by jonescg » Mar 01 2018 8:00am

Jaack wrote:
Mar 01 2018 5:41am
do you have 22s 4p x2 boards available for sale along with the bus bars and push nuts? if so how would one order a set.... with pricing? does the boards come with the nuts solderd on,id like to avoid soldering if i could what are "NMC" cells?...
Yep, but only for 9 mm thick cells or 8.2 mm thick cells, and all at 50 mm wide. I can put them together for you and sent them off no trouble. With or without copper buslinks?

The NMC cells I was referring to in this thread a couple of pages back. They are a 25 Ah cell a customer brought in. We devised a PCB to suit and it came together quite nicely.

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Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by Jaack » Mar 01 2018 11:37am

jonescg wrote:
Mar 01 2018 8:00am
Jaack wrote:
Mar 01 2018 5:41am
do you have 22s 4p x2 boards available for sale along with the bus bars and push nuts? if so how would one order a set.... with pricing? does the boards come with the nuts solderd on,id like to avoid soldering if i could what are "NMC" cells?...
Yep, but only for 9 mm thick cells or 8.2 mm thick cells, and all at 50 mm wide. I can put them together for you and sent them off no trouble. With or without copper buslinks?

The NMC cells I was referring to in this thread a couple of pages back. They are a 25 Ah cell a customer brought in. We devised a PCB to suit and it came together quite nicely.
yes i would need the bus bars too ...i haven't got the batteries yet so before i buy the boards and bars let me get the batteries..then ill place the order...whats the price for the kit $US

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Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by jonescg » Mar 01 2018 7:52pm

OK so 2 lots of 22s4p boards and copper busbars would cost $484 AUD - or about $370 USD. Shipping will be on top of this, maybe about another $70-$100 because of the weight of copper.

These can be for either the 8.2 mm thick cells from FEP or the 9 mm thick cells, both of which are 50 mm wide.

I suggest you buy the cells first then measure their thickness - we can assess which boards to use if they are too far away form either of these two measurements.

Cheers,
Chris

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