Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

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jonescg   1 GW

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Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by jonescg » Sep 14 2012 6:37am

Nice!
Is the plastic at 90 degrees to the frame upright? As long as it's square and solid to the base we can start. Come around on the weekend; tomorrow is best as I'm out Sunday afternoon.

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Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by Rodney64 » Sep 14 2012 6:46am

It's not quite square but will work on it in the morning, it's 5ml gap at the bottom.

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Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by Rodney64 » Sep 22 2012 6:19am

Got some good info today on the cycle analyst


11.8 amp hours used. I think the pack has 13 usable amp hours.
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38 kilometers travelled in a gusty day to the beach

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29 watt hour kilometer at a average speed of 32.8km an hour


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Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by jonescg » Sep 22 2012 7:37am

Great to hear Rodney :D

I think you can probably push 13 Ah safely. You might be able to squeeze all 15, but you're really punishing the cells after 3.5 V per cell. The next few tests will be a) are the cells still in balance after discharge and bulk charge and b) are the cells staying fairly close to each other during discharge and charge.

I think your phase wires might have appreciated the upgraded connectors :) Have you re-attached the Lyen controller to the top bar?

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Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by Rodney64 » Sep 22 2012 7:48am

No I haven't attached the controller to the top bar yet but will in the morning. It will also pack more of the foam around and above te battery as well. One weekend we will have to catch up and go for a ride. I will also cut another piece of fr4 for the top too.

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Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by AussieJester » Sep 22 2012 7:57am

good job bois... :wink: Lemme know when your free again for a 'visit' CHRiS just got back from Bali early Friday morning, 4 days of relaxing
has 're-energised' my batteries so i'm keen to get into the bike building come Monday as Karans 2 week 'holiday' comes to an end, i got me HEAPS of free time on my hands again...

KiM

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Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by jonescg » Sep 22 2012 8:03am

Nice one Kim, you two got the house to yourselves yet?

My CRX is running as good as the day we bought it! I replaced the rocker cover gasket and spark plug seals so oil won't leak into the plug well. I cleaned the plugs up and replaced the ignition leads - big difference right there. It doesn't hesitate when I tramp the foot and it cruises reasonably well. So fingers crossed I'll have it over the pits this week, or probably early next. I can bring the jig over for soldering cells up then :D Followed by some reverse donuts in High Wycombe :lol:

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Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by AussieJester » Sep 22 2012 8:13am

jonescg wrote:Nice one Kim, you two got the house to yourselves yet?

My CRX is running as good as the day we bought it! I replaced the rocker cover gasket and spark plug seals so oil won't leak into the plug well. I cleaned the plugs up and replaced the ignition leads - big difference right there. It doesn't hesitate when I tramp the foot and it cruises reasonably well. So fingers crossed I'll have it over the pits this week, or probably early next. I can bring the jig over for soldering cells up then :D Followed by some reverse donuts in High Wycombe :lol:
Unfortunately not CHRiS, but the good news is they have put and offer in on a house and it was accepted, settlment date
aint till end of Novemeber though ::sigh::

Great news on the CRX :wink: and, HAHA when in HiiiiGH Wycombe.........LoL What aside
from beer shall i have ready on hand to get this pack built? I was thinking of using a small
DB25 type plug for the balance taps unsure if i have enough wire on hand got any i can purchase?
remembering i will be using only the Hyperion for charging via the balance leads for the intrim
till funds allow for couple of meanwells to bulk charge, so some beefy wire for the leads
will be the shot, 10amp is whay i get out of the Hyperion...anyhoot, best of luck at the pits CHRiS ;-)

KiM

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Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by jonescg » Sep 22 2012 8:30am

You can probably start tinning the copper bars. I find it works best to put solder on both sides. This way, when building the pack and you're about to lay into it with a giant frock off soldering iron, the heat is conducted efficiently into the bus. For tinning you can probably to it between two bricks and hold a torch under it, but a big iron works best.

I'll cut some FR4 up with notches for the balance wires and cable ties. I got plenty of 22 gauge and 18 gauge wire we can use. We can put some 12 gauge wire on the two half-packs for charging too - two pairs of Andersons would work. When the money comes in for a 75 V bulk charger you can just use the two end leads.

I'm going to start putting a 20s, 17 Ah pack together using the 5800 mAh cells. It will be more like a real 15 Ah, but would be ideal for a mid-speed long range e-bike.

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Hi-Power LiPo battery kits - must sell!

Post by jonescg » Sep 23 2012 5:48am

OK guys,

I have four sets of 12s 5p LiPo kits to get rid of. I ordered a whole stack of these boards thinking my race bike was going to run off a lower voltage, but the hardware wouldn't allow it. So I have a stack of boards and copper left over.

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These 12s 5p kits would give you a nominal ~44 V and a whopping 25 Ah capacity. The low voltage suits anyone running a slower wind for hill climbing or towing. At 25 Ah - what's sag? :D You can buy one and a half kits for 18s too; probably a more useful voltage for reasonable speed. All of the copper is currently un-tinned, but it's not that hard to do yourself, you just need a flapper wheel on a drill to get it back to bare metal before tinning. If you are really desperate I can tin them for you.

I also have the 6s 5p bare boards for sale if you want to cut your own copper.

Also available is another 20s 3p kit with tinned copper.
Image

This gives you a 10 kg pack with ~75 V nominal and 15 Ah. The perfect machine for moving fast :)

I also have three spare boards too if you're keen to cut your own copper.

Finally I have a stack of 7s 4p boards, perfect for 14s packs. Again, you can cut your own 18 mm wide strips of copper for a convenient 52 V, 20 Ah pack. I can cut and tin the copper for you if you like, I just haven't got around to it.

All two-board kits are going for $120. So a 12s 5p kit is $120, a 20s 3p kit is $120, and a 14s 4p kit is $120. Individual boards with no copper is a much cheaper way to go - $10 each and they should fit in an air mail bag :). I just need to get rid of them, but the copper was quite an outlay so getting something back on them would be nice.

Don't forget all these boards come with plated through holes for soldering balance wires to, and are fully compatible with Method's LiPo protection kits.

Shipping to the USA is normally about $27 but I'll throw it in free cause I want to see these go to a good home. Shipping within Australia is also free.

Oh, and instructions for assembly and support are provided. IN fact I reckon AussieJester and I will put a video together for youse for a laugh ;) Followed by reverse donuts in a CRX :lol:

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Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by deepfraught » Sep 24 2012 11:46pm

Hi Chris, do you have any of the HK 5Ah pouches left over for sale?
Technical query, are they able to function in a slight curve/bend along their length to enter an oversized frame tube of 50mm OD so shouldn't be too much permanent bend, but more bend temporarily in order to fit it.
Also if you had any dead ones I'd be keen to live test it to see whether I can fit it in without damage. The goal is 6S1P.
History: Front hub SS 200W, China E-mtb 200W, 3x A2B Metros, Commuter Booster beta, 2.4kW d/s w/DD kit, MAC 1.5kW road/flatbar 1250Wh EM3EV frame batt, BBS02 750W d/s MTB 1250Wh frame batt. All sold (except A2B Metros pending TLC from storage).

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Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by jonescg » Sep 25 2012 12:46am

deepfraught wrote:Hi Chris, do you have any of the HK 5Ah pouches left over for sale?
No, but I do have about 24 of the 20C, 5800 mAh cells. These are 10 mm thick, and thus needed a different board made up to suit. I was planning on building a 20s 3p pack with these and a few more I can buy through the HK retail site. It would be a good test-bed for the race bike, particularly managing 42 balance wires per quarter-pack :shock:
deepfraught wrote: Technical query, are they able to function in a slight curve/bend along their length to enter an oversized frame tube of 50mm OD so shouldn't be too much permanent bend, but more bend temporarily in order to fit it.
Also if you had any dead ones I'd be keen to live test it to see whether I can fit it in without damage. The goal is 6S1P.
Not really... The width of these pouches is 50 mm +/- 1 mm. So I doubt you could fit it into the tube anyway. And even if it could, the bend would really only work in the concave direction.

I decided to make 3p the smallest capacity as 2p isn't really enough for most high (50 V or more) voltage systems. 5p is really quite huge, and more relevant to the e-motorcycle market I think.

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Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by Rodney64 » Oct 02 2012 5:04am

My batteries going well but planning on changing my 45 amp andersons to something different due to getting too hot. This is causing the covers to melt together which causes a bad connection. It's only an issue when the amps go over 60 and the wiring gets too hot. Would upgrading the wiring help with reducing the heat at the andersons?

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Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by deepfraught » Oct 02 2012 5:55am

Would the 75A plugs solve that? Seems too obvious an answer to me so waiting for the QI style whammy shame ignorance answer flashing :P
History: Front hub SS 200W, China E-mtb 200W, 3x A2B Metros, Commuter Booster beta, 2.4kW d/s w/DD kit, MAC 1.5kW road/flatbar 1250Wh EM3EV frame batt, BBS02 750W d/s MTB 1250Wh frame batt. All sold (except A2B Metros pending TLC from storage).

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Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by Rodney64 » Oct 02 2012 6:20am

deepfraught wrote:Would the 75A plugs solve that? Seems too obvious an answer to me so waiting for the QI style whammy shame ignorance answer flashing :P

Yes I have enough of the 75amp ones but at $36 for 3 sets is it worth changing the wiring from the motor to the controller. It's the standard wiring used in the hs3580. There's no sign of the plastic melting so I assume its rated to more that 60 amp continuous.

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Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by Spicerack » Oct 02 2012 6:44am

Heaps of options for power connectors from Hobbyking. I started off with Andersons but have mostly converted all my high power stuff to bullets now.

5mm bullet types- 160A rating (ish), 10 pairs for $4.10

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... 20pc_.html

6mm bullets, 250A (yeah right but would be at least 100A?) 15 pairs for $9

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... _bag_.html

XT90 90amp continuous, etc etc etc
Norco Shore2
Was Cellman MAC rear oil cooled then 8x8 9C vented and temp probed now 9x7 9C vented and temp probed!
12 FET controller
62V 18650 home made battery pack
50 km/h
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=32769
MAC Repair thread http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =2&t=34806
Oil cooling the MAC hubbie http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =2&t=37972

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Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by jonescg » Oct 02 2012 6:46am

Just to be clear, this is the wiring from the controller to the motor which is overheating right? I get this on occasion with my Cell_man bike. Battery Andersons are fine with the odd 120 A blast and 40 A continuous.

Cause the battery side currents (which is the 60 A figure you're seeing on the cycle analyst) should be fine with the 45 A Andersons. It always surprises me that the wiring on hub motors seems so... small :?

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Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by Rodney64 » Oct 02 2012 7:31am

jonescg wrote:Just to be clear, this is the wiring from the controller to the motor which is overheating right? I get this on occasion with my Cell_man bike. Battery Andersons are fine with the odd 120 A blast and 40 A continuous.

Cause the battery side currents (which is the 60 A figure you're seeing on the cycle analyst) should be fine with the 45 A Andersons. It always surprises me that the wiring on hub motors seems so... small :?
Yes from the motor to the controller. The wiring is handling it but not the Andersons (45A) they are melting then the motor starts missing.

by andynogo » Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:44 pm

Heaps of options for power connectors from Hobbyking. I started off with Andersons but have mostly converted all my high power stuff to bullets now.

5mm bullet types- 160A rating (ish), 10 pairs for $4.10

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... 20pc_.html

6mm bullets, 250A (yeah right but would be at least 100A?) 15 pairs for $9

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... _bag_.html

XT90 90amp continuous, etc etc etc
Thanks Andy, I will give them a try. Which crimping tool do you use for the 5mm 160 amp bullets?

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74 V and 17 Ah (only 25 C)

Post by jonescg » Oct 04 2012 5:31am

Back to the batteries ;)

In the last big HobbyKing order I made, I ordered about 37 of these 5800 mAh 25C cells. I got Full-Throttle to make a new PCB up for me since these cells are slightly thicker than the 40C cells. I finally bit the bullet and bought another 32 of them to build a 20s,3p pack which I will sell here on ES for $1200.

In my honest opinion, don't go for the lower C-rate cells if the quality control I have experienced is anything to go by. The 40C cells had 2 bad ones in 180. These 25C cells so far have come up with 3 in 37 :? At least I can sort the duds from the good ones myself.

Image

So, what's new about this one? Well I have decided to use some of the G10-FR4 fibre reinforced epoxy as a cover for the terminations, protecting the balance wires from potential shorts. I have also filed out slots for the wires on the copper bars just to make it a bit easier, and the cover will have holes with cable ties to secure the balance leads.

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Pretty neat eh? I have also made it standard to trim the cell tabs down to a more manageable size before scuffing and tinning. It just seems to make the copper sit down nice and level on the boards. Previously they would look a bit wonky, but still take the current.

Image

So, soon I'll have yet another Hi-Power LiPo pack ready to go :D

Image

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Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by 999zip999 » Oct 04 2012 2:32pm

Love it why cut so much off the tabs ?

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Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by jonescg » Oct 04 2012 7:12pm

It's really just to ensure they don't overlap, creating a high point. This way when the copper is soldered down onto the board it will sit evenly and look a bit neater.

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Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by jonescg » Oct 06 2012 5:49am

Some visual aids for the soldering of these boards...

First, solder your balance leads in. You can use any of the holes provided, but if you wanted to solder Method's LVC/HVC boards onto the cells permanently you can.

Place a generous ring of solder around the pad and lower the copper block down onto it very carefully. It's quite easy to short things!

Image

Then place the 'third finger' or any other kind of downward force onto the copper with a piece of heat-resistant stuff to limit the amount of heat being conducted through the steel. Put a couple of bits of solder either side to ensure the irons have good contact with the copper.

Image

Carefully weight the third finger down with something heavy. I use a 4 kg lump of steel. I want a really good connection! It is really important that the cells are secured in a jig like my wooden box. The 40 N of downward force needs to be shared evenly across a half-dozen cells.

Image

Then place the two hot irons onto the solder patches and watch the whole lot melt. I use two 200 W irons with the tips cut off to a really blunt surface for maximum heat conduction. Don't let off until you see the solder squish out the sides of the copper and the board below. Then when you are happy with the way the block is sitting, put the irons aside and cool the copper with a damp cloth.

And you're done!

Image

I think this will work nicely to keep the wires out of the way, but should you need to replace a few cells, getting it off will require cutting your connector off. So I might just cut the boards into two narrow strips with slots on both sides instead.

Edited for clarity :)

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Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by jonescg » Oct 07 2012 8:08am

I'll let AussieJester update his CHroMo CrUIsER thread in more detail, but I thought this battery was pretty frocking sweet. 18s, 3p, 1000 Wh and under 7.5 kg.

During assembly:
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1000W, jonescg and AJ all enjoying a drink in homage to the LiPo.
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And a close up of the pack. Later on, Kim and I soldered the 8 gauge wires onto the main terminations.
Image

So, if you would like a 20s 3p, 74 V, 1250 Wh pack, I got one for sale for $1200! Looks a lot like this one ;)

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Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by jonescg » Oct 15 2012 11:12pm

I just put the G10-FR4 board on top to prevent the balance wires from shorting on the terminations. Looks pretty schmick eh?

Image

Image
They don't sit real high, which is great.

This pack should be ready for sale next week once my batteries come in from HK.

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Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by jonescg » Oct 18 2012 11:28pm

Woohoo! More LiPo finally arrived from HK. I can finish this pack on the weekend. Will post pics soon. I'm going to use a D-sub 25 or equivalent for the balance taps, and come up with an attachment for use with a balance charger.

I have also ordered an 84 V charger from Kelly ($250 including shipping) which should be here soon. So howsabout $1500 for the lot? 1260 Wh pack includes a 7 A charger with free shipping within Australia? Seems silly to sell a battery without a charger...

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