UPDATED 04/10/15- NEW HPC REVOLUTION DH E-BIKE!

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Sellick   10 W

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Re: Sneak Peak at the NEW HPC REVOLUTION DH E-BIKE!

Post by Sellick » Mar 02 2014 9:57am

Tench wrote: The 6061 aluminium is a good choice, even in T0 temper it has 95% of the strength of T5 with T6 having an even higher tensile strength
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought 6061 lost about 70% of it's strength when it returns to near 0 temper around the HAZ

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Re: Sneak Peak at the NEW HPC REVOLUTION DH E-BIKE!

Post by Tench » Mar 02 2014 2:14pm

Yes it can loose a large percentage of its strength after welding if you are starting with the highest strength temper material. And unless full heat treatment is carried out post welding there is no benefit to be gained from using that temper material.
It would be wiser to design so the frame is strong enough for purpose without relying on a temper, therefore nothing can weaken it. Aluminium will naturally age and work harden too.
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Re: Sneak Peak at the NEW HPC REVOLUTION DH E-BIKE!

Post by Sellick » Mar 02 2014 5:17pm

True, but there are much more suitable alloys than 6061 if using 0 temper/not heat treating

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Re: Sneak Peak at the NEW HPC REVOLUTION DH E-BIKE!

Post by Tench » Mar 02 2014 5:36pm

Such as? there is 7005, not better in all its properties but yes in some.
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Re: Sneak Peak at the NEW HPC REVOLUTION DH E-BIKE!

Post by Sellick » Mar 03 2014 4:36am

Non heat treatable alloys? 5083 for example. Very cheap and easy to get in the UK

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efMX Trials Electric Freeride   1 MW

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Re: Sneak Peak at the NEW HPC REVOLUTION DH E-BIKE!

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Mar 03 2014 12:08pm

HPC Revolution is a downhill mtn bike that can be motorized via mid or hub drive..
or ridden solely as a heavy duty non-motored dh/freeride mountain bike..

other designs posted here using URT suspension would not be as capable for downhill/freeride..
after all, what is suspension designed for if not to isolate the rider from trail impacts, drops/jumps, etc..

huge props of course to anyone that can build a frame from scratch..
but why use an outdated suspension design???
why not design towards solving all problems???
URT solves a minor problem (chain growth under suspension movement)
while creating a major problem (rider becomes unsuspended weight subject to landing/impact shock loads..)

but maybe your design is not intended for downhill mtn-biking/ freeride???

as per the fighter..
stealth is not unlike an suv..
rarely see offroad & when they do it handles ok..
but no comparison to a purpose built rock crawler..
also, having spent thousands one may be loath to point out design weaknesses..

:|
Tench wrote:I have a frame on the drawing board that should be made for testing within a couple of weeks which also has the crank in the swingarm to eliminate chain issues but I have put the crank infront of the pivot! :shock: I have used a 25:1 ratio between the distance from the pivot to the back wheel and pivot to crank so that a 75kg rider stood on the pedals would create an upwards force of around 3kg at the rear wheel to help offset the weight of an hub motor, to make it ride like it has a lighter back wheel over smaller ripples. On big suspension movement the crank moves rearwards a little going under the swingarm pivot as there is an height difference too eliminating its influence. Compression of the suspension will move the crank a small amount, time will tell if it is a problem, no body complains about it on the Fighter!
I have also done away with the need for heavy steel chain tugs and torque arms with a different design motor axle and a tandem eccentric bottom bracket to adjust chain tension which all helps reduce the weight at the back of the swingarm by a lot!
And my battery compartment is not where everyone else has put it Stealth style.
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http://www.youtube.com/natas666damien
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Re: Sneak Peak at the NEW HPC REVOLUTION DH E-BIKE!

Post by korpin » Apr 08 2014 9:46pm

efMX Trials Electric Freeride wrote:with the cranks on the swingarm the rider will be unsprung weight and will feel every bump..
not the best suspension design for big hits downhill/freeride etc..
:wink:
korpin wrote:here is a Russian made frame...notice how the crankset is on the swingarm....EXCELLANT!
yeah was thinking about that but the spring should take the brunt of it...and legs are of course flexible so I do not see it as a huge problem but I am not planning 15 foot drops either so...also the riders legs are near the fulcrum of the lever where distance traveled is minimal(the outside of lever SHOULD take brunt of shock BEFORE the inside...no?)

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efMX Trials Electric Freeride   1 MW

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Re: Sneak Peak at the NEW HPC REVOLUTION DH E-BIKE!

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Apr 09 2014 10:55am

if your legs are so flexible,,
why even have suspension at all!!
:lol:
korpin wrote:
efMX Trials Electric Freeride wrote:with the cranks on the swingarm the rider will be unsprung weight and will feel every bump..
not the best suspension design for big hits downhill/freeride etc..
:wink:
korpin wrote:here is a Russian made frame...notice how the crankset is on the swingarm....EXCELLANT!
yeah was thinking about that but the spring should take the brunt of it...and legs are of course flexible so I do not see it as a huge problem but I am not planning 15 foot drops either so...also the riders legs are near the fulcrum of the lever where distance traveled is minimal(the outside of lever SHOULD take brunt of shock BEFORE the inside...no?)
some ride & sk8 videos:
metacafe.com/channels/NATAS666DAMIEN
http://www.youtube.com/natas666damien
i have nothing for sale.. :)

korpin   10 kW

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Re: Sneak Peak at the NEW HPC REVOLUTION DH E-BIKE!

Post by korpin » Apr 09 2014 2:24pm

well it looks like HPC it gonna put the pivot point in line with crankset that should be close enough to concentric hopefully they will also have drop outs horizontal to allow no derailer for bigger motors

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friendly1uk   10 MW

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Re: Sneak Peak at the NEW HPC REVOLUTION DH E-BIKE!

Post by friendly1uk » Apr 09 2014 7:39pm

I'm looking forward to a tidy frame like this that carries enough batteries for pedal assist, rather than a box so big a side wind blows you away and everyone can see your push bike ain't right.

This is still a bit big tbh. It's not a pedal bike, it don't even have any gears. Nor 135 vertical dropouts. Instead it takes a big motor and uses the weaker motor mounting that allows chain adjustment as there is no derailleur. It's a motorcycle, It needs more battery space to sit with it's peers.

Look at the major car manufacturers efforts. Forget they use carbon, and look at the silhouette. Pedelecs with batteries in the frame are met with favourable comments almost every time. Yet we have most based on push bikes, and the moment anyone gets their welder out, all they build is motorcycles.


I do like this bike a lot. Enough to be disappointment that it won't take a smaller motor and has no gears. It would be nice scaled down for street use with occasional off-road functionality to get weight down. With 135 vertical drop-outs and gears so you can pedal it (and deal with chain tension)



Did someone say moving the BB to the swing arm made you unsprung weight? I calc the design pictured wouldn't shift 10% of the riders sprung weight to unsprung.
Looking to tench's BB location, it is not unsprung at all. He will move further than the seat post in a vertical plane.
bmsbattery sent me broken and incorrect stuff, and won't even talk to me about it.

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Re: Sneak Peak at the NEW HPC REVOLUTION DH E-BIKE!

Post by korpin » Apr 29 2014 9:08pm

I think this bike would be good with a mid drive and a rholoff internally geared hub if you could get a decent top speed like 45 mph that would be the best of all worlds regarding weight,balance,efficiency....or maybe that with a small direct drive up front?

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Re: Sneak Peak at the NEW HPC REVOLUTION DH E-BIKE!

Post by Mammalian04 » Apr 29 2014 11:53pm

Are both the Revolution and Mid drive affected by the supplier change?

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Re: Sneak Peak at the NEW HPC REVOLUTION DH E-BIKE!

Post by hi-powercycles » Jun 06 2014 3:32pm

UPDATE! Finally! We have gone through 3 different suppliers... our main welding shop closed shop after 35 years in business and caught us by surprise to say the least! A couple of changes some people will be excited about:
1) The battery compartment has been updated and can now fit a MONSTER 90V 26Ah battery system with 100+ mile range at 20 mph
2) The Swingarm is now FULLY machined- it is now stronger, less flexy, and looks better in our opinion. Although more expensive, it looks and feels more premium.
3) All parts on the frame are designed, machined and assembled in the USA!

Attached are some photos:
Image
Some of the first frame pieces

Image
New Swingarm Design

Image
New Frame on bottom vs old frame on top

Image
Picture with 90V 26Ah battery inside!

Image

Final testing should begin next week! We only expect very minor changes now (if any). Time to try to break it! Should be fun...

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Re: UPDATE 6/6/14- NEW HPC REVOLUTION DH E-BIKE!

Post by Mammalian04 » Jun 06 2014 10:26pm

Nice.... I like it better, and the bigger battery compartment makes it competitive again with Phasor and Raptor, for those of us looking for that extra capacity.

Are you still considering selling frame only to ES members?
What is the frame width?
Any moto peg and moto seat option planned?

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efMX Trials Electric Freeride   1 MW

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Re: UPDATE 6/6/14- NEW HPC REVOLUTION DH E-BIKE!

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Jun 26 2014 5:38pm

i agree..
it would be nice if the seat strut was removable/ bolt on..
to allow for no seat trials style or moto seat kit..
or just different size seat struts..

Mammalian04 wrote:Nice.... I like it better, and the bigger battery compartment makes it competitive again with Phasor and Raptor, for those of us looking for that extra capacity.

Are you still considering selling frame only to ES members?
What is the frame width?
Any moto peg and moto seat option planned?
some ride & sk8 videos:
metacafe.com/channels/NATAS666DAMIEN
http://www.youtube.com/natas666damien
i have nothing for sale.. :)

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Re: UPDATE 6/6/14- NEW HPC REVOLUTION DH E-BIKE!

Post by Mammalian04 » Jun 26 2014 6:10pm

Too late for me guys. I couldn't wait any longer and ordered a couple Raptors. :( Too bad as I was excited about the complete package offered.

Maybe the next one!

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efMX Trials Electric Freeride   1 MW

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Re: UPDATE 6/6/14- NEW HPC REVOLUTION DH E-BIKE!

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Jun 26 2014 8:38pm

frame looks good..
whats the word on the HPC mid-drive??
hi-powercycles wrote:UPDATE! Finally! We have gone through 3 different suppliers... our main welding shop closed shop after 35 years in business and caught us by surprise to say the least! A couple of changes some people will be excited about:
1) The battery compartment has been updated and can now fit a MONSTER 90V 26Ah battery system with 100+ mile range at 20 mph
2) The Swingarm is now FULLY machined- it is now stronger, less flexy, and looks better in our opinion. Although more expensive, it looks and feels more premium.
3) All parts on the frame are designed, machined and assembled in the USA!

Attached are some photos:
Image
Some of the first frame pieces

Image
New Swingarm Design

Image
New Frame on bottom vs old frame on top

Image
Picture with 90V 26Ah battery inside!

Image

Final testing should begin next week! We only expect very minor changes now (if any). Time to try to break it! Should be fun...
some ride & sk8 videos:
metacafe.com/channels/NATAS666DAMIEN
http://www.youtube.com/natas666damien
i have nothing for sale.. :)

korpin   10 kW

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Re: UPDATE 6/6/14- NEW HPC REVOLUTION DH E-BIKE!

Post by korpin » Jul 24 2014 10:05am

efMX Trials Electric Freeride wrote:frame looks good..
whats the word on the HPC mid-drive??


looks like they are developing a new mid drive if they can manage to get it up to 45 or 50 I think I am taking that route along with some motorcycle type rims and tires!..it would have speed,range,and hill climbing ability at around maybe 85 pounds? EXCELLENT! :P

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DanGT86   10 kW

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Re: UPDATE 6/6/14- NEW HPC REVOLUTION DH E-BIKE!

Post by DanGT86 » Jul 24 2014 12:43pm

Swing-arm concept looks great! is that all one piece or 2 halves bolted together? Is it aluminum or steel?

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Re: UPDATE 6/6/14- NEW HPC REVOLUTION DH E-BIKE!

Post by mattrb » Jul 24 2014 3:29pm

DanGT86 wrote:Swing-arm concept looks great! is that all one piece or 2 halves bolted together? Is it aluminum or steel?
Its aluminum and its 2 halves bolted.
52v Crystalyte 4060 Phasor and 4000w Cyclone Elite

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Re: UPDATE 6/6/14- NEW HPC REVOLUTION DH E-BIKE!

Post by mattrb » Jul 24 2014 3:35pm

korpin wrote:
efMX Trials Electric Freeride wrote:frame looks good..
whats the word on the HPC mid-drive??


looks like they are developing a new mid drive if they can manage to get it up to 45 or 50 I think I am taking that route along with some motorcycle type rims and tires!..it would have speed,range,and hill climbing ability at around maybe 85 pounds? EXCELLENT! :P

The mid drive is a bafang bbs-02 overvolting at 52v (vs stock 48v) and it will probably fail given that bafang recalled the bbs-02 when overvolting last month. Hopefully they have the new bafang inventory soon that can handle a little extra current. I would guess this could not go the 45-50 miles that you thought korpin. You shouldn't go that route korpin, put that MC shinko on the slotted hs4060 and it will shine. My 29" OD Duro Razorbacks would overheat easy on sand but the 26" OD MC Shinko tires are much easier to run without overheating.
52v Crystalyte 4060 Phasor and 4000w Cyclone Elite

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Re: UPDATE 6/6/14- NEW HPC REVOLUTION DH E-BIKE!

Post by Samd » Jul 24 2014 5:38pm

Nice work. I wouldn't waste your time with heat treating 6061 if the gauge is right...

I wouldn't weld right up the ends of the headstem though...
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ImageImageImage
"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing that a 165mm rear shock can't deliver 220mm of rear swingarm travel." - Oprah Winfrey.

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Re: UPDATE 6/6/14- NEW HPC REVOLUTION DH E-BIKE!

Post by macribs » Aug 13 2014 2:30pm

Cool. I thought the whole idea of the Revolution was dropped for some reason.
Glad I found this thread so I know it is still moving forward.

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Re: UPDATE 6/6/14- NEW HPC REVOLUTION DH E-BIKE!

Post by noshortcuts » Aug 28 2014 1:23am

Don't see a "subscribe" button, so I'm just saying, subscribed. And nice work on this frame.

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Re: UPDATE 6/6/14- NEW HPC REVOLUTION DH E-BIKE!

Post by liamcaff » Aug 28 2014 7:40am

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