Advanced ADAPTTO controllers and compatible products

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ecruz   1 kW

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Re: Advanced ADAPTTO controllers and compatible products

Post by ecruz » Sep 28 2017 5:33pm

Lash wrote:
ecruz wrote:Horrorlv can you elaborate, not asking for confidential information just a simple "I know for a fact they are still in business and WILL be releasing new product"

Guys, any thoughts on the BMS link I posted? Do you guys know a better deal? Any help is appreciated. I can always go with this setup and sell it if Adaptto releases something extravagant lol
Hey, That BMS looks pretty good to me. It looks like the ones these dudes use https://www.facebook.com/CyklonEbike/

I follow their instagram and they are always punching out bikes and gear. So if they use it, id say its a good buy. In fact i think ill get one soon for one of my builds...

I just ordered one of these from aliexpress https://www.aliexpress.com/item/14S-60A ... 33108.html
for some lower power betas i have in the works..

I hope it goes aright, I think its worth spending an extra 30 bucks to be able to see battery values and be able to configure it all on a phone display.
But yes I have a Max-e on my alpha and have it pretty well tuned most of the time. Its certainly a great plug-n play unit that you can configure on the at the press of a button.

These other options we cobble together may be a bit cheaper than an adaptto, but not by much, so adaptto makes a solid choice in my book. (would love to hear more about their direction and new products too.)
Thanks Lash, I think I am going to get the 300amp version with the screen, use it with the Sabvoton 72200. I guess its better to under use it than to grow and not have room.

Just to make sure, I can use the 300amp version at 200amps? I am probably doing my pack at 20s14p or 15p if I can fit it in the Q76R frame of Sony VTC5 which continuously can put out 20amps each so 20x14 =280amps from battery, controller can do 200 DC amps?

Many of you have the Qulbix Q76 what is the total count of batteries as I am sure many of you guys have tried?

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Offroader   10 MW

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Re: Advanced ADAPTTO controllers and compatible products

Post by Offroader » Sep 30 2017 9:09am

I think if Adaptto is out another company should come in and make a similar product. I don't know if this may be difficult because of the low salaries and high technical skills that are easier to get in Russia may make it cost prohibitive elsewhere.

But their product can easily be copied it is all available technology.

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notger   100 W

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Re: Advanced ADAPTTO controllers and compatible products

Post by notger » Sep 30 2017 2:01pm

Offroader wrote:I think if Adaptto is out another company should come in and make a similar product. I don't know if this may be difficult because of the low salaries and high technical skills that are easier to get in Russia may make it cost prohibitive elsewhere.

But their product can easily be copied it is all available technology.
Or going back to the "open-source" idea.

maybe some of you are familiar with Benjamin Vedder and his VESC. (witch actually also is a pretty decent e-bike ESC but just for max. 12s unless someone is developing it further for high Voltage Use)
A british mountainboard manufacturer (called Trampa) coupled up with Benjamin and produce his VESC6, but the PCBlayout files are still opensource, so its also open for freaks who want so solder their controller by themselves insterad of paying quite some money for them.
Thats a perfecty expample on how knowledge and experience is not lost if a company stops (I*m not even sure if that is teh case with adaptto, but couse of the low/non responds of adaptto hre in the forum it looks like it)

greets

Notger

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Re: Advanced ADAPTTO controllers and compatible products

Post by agedashidofu » Oct 01 2017 2:43am

Offroader wrote:I think if Adaptto is out another company should come in and make a similar product. I don't know if this may be difficult because of the low salaries and high technical skills that are easier to get in Russia may make it cost prohibitive elsewhere.

But their product can easily be copied it is all available technology.
In my humble opinion, I don't think there's a shortage of skills or know-how, especially if resources are put into it. One major barrier that I can think of is that legally, in most countries, e-bikes are limited to 750W at most, and therefore, there's a very small market for any controllers made this powerful. There's the "small" controllers for legal e-bikes, and then there's the "large" controllers for like electric scooter / motorcycle (where space is not really a constraint) - that's the market reality today. That will discourage most companies seriously putting efforts into building the likes of Adapttos

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Re: Advanced ADAPTTO controllers and compatible products

Post by Lebowski » Oct 01 2017 7:30am

If you want (much more) than 12s you can ask Animalector to build you a controller...

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Re: Advanced ADAPTTO controllers and compatible products

Post by Volts » Oct 01 2017 10:22am

I think the problem with adaptto was with the mosfet number they only used 18, sabvoton uses 36 for the same power. mosfet number is related to the wave signal to the motor, it seems to me that the more mosfet you pack the higher the wave function (complexity of the wave, or purity of sine wave shape) which explains the over heating and random charging problems which resulted into blown mosfets and a dead controller. I also know that its not good to charge a battery at the speeds that adaptto controller do, I don't know if this has anything to do with the fact that the controller die a lot, but it can't help.

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notger   100 W

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Re: Advanced ADAPTTO controllers and compatible products

Post by notger » Oct 01 2017 11:43am

Volts wrote:I think the problem with adaptto was with the mosfet number they only used 18, sabvoton uses 36 for the same power. mosfet number is related to the wave signal to the motor, it seems to me that the more mosfet you pack the higher the wave function (complexity of the wave, or purity of sine wave shape) which explains the over heating and random charging problems which resulted into blown mosfets and a dead controller. I also know that its not good to charge a battery at the speeds that adaptto controller do, I don't know if this has anything to do with the fact that the controller die a lot, but it can't help.
Do adaptto controller die "alot" ?
i personally use two minis and did't kill any of them, but im also using them with maximum 2,5kw instead of their rated 4kw.
so its probably also a issure with going close to max rated wattage of the controller.

So in imy experience the minis arereally nice to use compared to the kellys and infinion i used before (also max 2kw).

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: Advanced ADAPTTO controllers and compatible products

Post by Rix » Oct 01 2017 1:19pm

notger wrote:
Volts wrote:I think the problem with adaptto was with the mosfet number they only used 18, sabvoton uses 36 for the same power. mosfet number is related to the wave signal to the motor, it seems to me that the more mosfet you pack the higher the wave function (complexity of the wave, or purity of sine wave shape) which explains the over heating and random charging problems which resulted into blown mosfets and a dead controller. I also know that its not good to charge a battery at the speeds that adaptto controller do, I don't know if this has anything to do with the fact that the controller die a lot, but it can't help.
Do adaptto controller die "alot" ?
i personally use two minis and did't kill any of them, but im also using them with maximum 2,5kw instead of their rated 4kw.
so its probably also a issure with going close to max rated wattage of the controller.

So in imy experience the minis arereally nice to use compared to the kellys and infinion i used before (also max 2kw).
I never had a problem with my Max E either.

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ridethelightning   1 MW

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Re: Advanced ADAPTTO controllers and compatible products

Post by ridethelightning » Oct 01 2017 9:35pm

Volts wrote:. I also know that its not good to charge a battery at the speeds that adaptto controller do, I don't know if this has anything to do with the fact that the controller die a lot, but it can't help.
this statements validity really depends on the size of your battery and the type of cells :wink:

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Cowardlyduck   10 MW

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Re: Advanced ADAPTTO controllers and compatible products

Post by Cowardlyduck » Oct 02 2017 12:31am

notger wrote:Do adaptto controller die "alot" ?
i personally use two minis and did't kill any of them, but im also using them with maximum 2,5kw instead of their rated 4kw.
so its probably also a issure with going close to max rated wattage of the controller.

So in imy experience the minis arereally nice to use compared to the kellys and infinion i used before (also max 2kw).
Yeah, they also can take a lot of power and last also IMO.
I pushed my previous Mini-E to 8KW before I blew it's Mosfets, so they can take a fair bit. Mind you I added loads of heatsinks to keep it cool, so that certainly helps.
My current Mini-E hits 5KW+ regularly and hasn't had a major issue yet after well over a year of use. I'm thinking of loading up the unlocked firmware soon and letting it take 90-100A, which is 6.5KW on my 72V LiPo setup.

If I had to guess, I would say there is a 50% safety margin above the locked limits of the Adaptto controllers. With added cooling, I would guess the Midi-E can take up to 12KW and the Max-E 20KW.

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Allex   1 GW

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Re: Advanced ADAPTTO controllers and compatible products

Post by Allex » Oct 03 2017 7:36am

Rix wrote: I never had a problem with my Max E either.
I would say that out of 100 controllers sold:
3-5 gets back in return due to unknown reasons, could be user error or manufacturing error that eventually caused a controller failure.
20 gets back due to user error

Flooded device: user error
r113 failure and other: user error
Burned FETs and other: user error

I get a lot of mails where folks do it all wrong, from connecting the halls plug backwards and mixing up the polarity of the battery to screw up the BMS connection and connecting BMS board to the display plug. Poor soldering job, poor isolations of leads, yadda, yadda...Then crying that they want the money back due to a bad product.

Basically what can be done here is making better documentation, if this does not help then the product is too complicated for the end user. But complicated is a relative term. Everything is complex if you refuse rtfm and read everything about it on the web.

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notger   100 W

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Re: Advanced ADAPTTO controllers and compatible products

Post by notger » Oct 03 2017 8:52am

Allex wrote: I would say that out of 100 controllers sold: ....................
So, Allex, probably you are the best adress to ask about adaptto-gossip:
whats going on with them ?
will they release a new generation ?
will the keep on exisitng anyway ?

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Allex   1 GW

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Re: Advanced ADAPTTO controllers and compatible products

Post by Allex » Oct 03 2017 9:33am

Well, the President is quiet on this one. I know that the lead engineer it still working on the new controller though.

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Lebowski   1 GW

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Re: Advanced ADAPTTO controllers and compatible products

Post by Lebowski » Oct 03 2017 10:20am

Allex wrote:Well, the President is quiet on this one. I know that the lead engineer it still working on the new controller though.
:( from experience i can tell you the engineer is always the last one to find out when the company stops and he gets fired....

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Re: Advanced ADAPTTO controllers and compatible products

Post by Allex » Oct 03 2017 1:32pm

Yeah, sounds reasonable! In this case he is kind of a part owner so it could be different.

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: Advanced ADAPTTO controllers and compatible products

Post by Rix » Oct 03 2017 1:49pm

Allex wrote:Well, the President is quiet on this one. I know that the lead engineer it still working on the new controller though.
Thats a good sign.
I get a lot of mails where folks do it all wrong, from connecting the halls plug backwards and mixing up the polarity of the battery to screw up the BMS connection and connecting BMS board to the display plug. Poor soldering job, poor isolations of leads, yadda, yadda...Then crying that they want the money back due to a bad product.
This is why I paid you for building the battery and setting up the Max E for plug-n-ride. Your labor was worth every penny.

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madin88   100 MW

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Re: Advanced ADAPTTO controllers and compatible products

Post by madin88 » Oct 03 2017 2:12pm

Allex wrote: I get a lot of mails where folks do it all wrong, from connecting the halls plug backwards and mixing up the polarity of the battery to screw up the BMS connection and connecting BMS board to the display plug. Poor soldering job, poor isolations of leads, yadda, yadda...Then crying that they want the money back due to a bad product.
How true Allex.
A few owners have absolutely no experience with such devices and they don't know about the consequences of false settings and connections, or shorts between wires and such things..

I wish the best to Adaptto and hope they will be able to soon release the new generation.

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: Advanced ADAPTTO controllers and compatible products

Post by Rix » Nov 08 2017 11:38am

Hello Rick.

At the moment we do not produce the old controller model.
- there is no possibility to add more features
- we have a large group of users without knowledge in the field of electronics. So, we need to add more protection to hardware and add circuits to detect a reason why the device becomes unusable (user fault or not)

At the moment, a new model is being developed, the future of adaptto controllers depends on the success of this project.

Yes you can publish information.
C наилучшими пожеланиями, команда Adaptto!
Recently I emailed Adaptto asking about the availability of their controllers as I am a huge fan. I got this email from Adaptto, reading between the lines, I interpret this as they are focusing on a lot of repair related issues due mostly to end users' errors. Sounds like if the new model being developed is successful in the field, we will see Adaptto controllers for sale again.

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Re: Advanced ADAPTTO controllers and compatible products

Post by BCTECH » Nov 08 2017 2:39pm

sounds right! the priority is not adding new features (although we all want) unless something comes up that can match/complete with their controller.
maybe they can also think about offering trade in? send them back the current version and get discount to buy the new version? that way the old ones sent for repair should be greatly reduced. fixing, labour, time could be more $ vs the discount offered.

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: Advanced ADAPTTO controllers and compatible products

Post by Rix » Nov 08 2017 7:16pm

BCTECH wrote:sounds right! the priority is not adding new features (although we all want) unless something comes up that can match/complete with their controller.
maybe they can also think about offering trade in? send them back the current version and get discount to buy the new version? that way the old ones sent for repair should be greatly reduced. fixing, labour, time could be more $ vs the discount offered.
That would also be a way to recoup a little lost costs. Will wait and see what happens.

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Merlin   1 MW

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Re: Advanced ADAPTTO controllers and compatible products

Post by Merlin » Nov 09 2017 6:52pm

are your infos from dmitry?


dont know what they do all the time and years but make it more customer proof is very simpel.

warranty firmware MAX-E:
- 150Battery current
- 300Phase current
- no options to kill the controller.
(yaya Enduser knowledge...do you remember the latest "better max-e"...more secured for mistakes?
i know 3 guys who buyed the "New Generation" Max-E and all 3 failed.
All 3 didnt do anything except of riding the bike. no "Doc-Bass" tests or stuff like that. Sending for repair...coming back and broken again.

-no "experimental" firmware.

MAX-E has 18fets.
early xie chang stuff had also 18fets 4110.
we squeezed out 100 amps..hell yea...24s 10kw. Oh the fets blown....and we send it for repair or did it by your self.
no "protect mode"...no max voltage, no max amps....the good old real china crap....300$ yea...throw it out...blown...frock....ok another please :D

sabvoton 150A has 24fets. 200A has 36fets (official) but as i heard not to buy anymore.
sabvotons are 2,2 big heavy blocks...but only 150Amps

so why can i squeeze 200A out of the 18fet with pussy small heatsinks in a normal 9G4 firmware?
Sure iam happy about that, and since years it worked for me :D

but probably riding the bull till i fall off :D


anyway....
the min-mid-max controllers are YEARS out....some firmware bugs and less features.

y e a r s........

since 1 year no stuff to buy.....another year here another there....


W T F are they doing all time? :mrgreen:
is it really that vodka thing? :lol:

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: Advanced ADAPTTO controllers and compatible products

Post by Rix » Nov 10 2017 12:44am

are your infos from dmitry?
The signature was in Russian, I couldn't read it. No sure if it was dmitry or someone else.
is it really that vodka thing? :lol:
:lol: :lol:

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macribs   1 GW

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Re: Advanced ADAPTTO controllers and compatible products

Post by macribs » Nov 10 2017 10:48am

The acid test is asking why there ain't a china clone of adaptto. I mean if the eastern copy cats find it is too weak to clone......
Last edited by macribs on Nov 10 2017 11:12am, edited 2 times in total.


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Re: Advanced ADAPTTO controllers and compatible products

Post by DasDouble » Nov 14 2017 5:33am

Dafuq is that of a comment? Lol "Lets copy an Adaptto:)".... What in thr world? :lol:
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