Advanced ADAPTTO controllers and compatible products

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upek   10 W

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by upek » May 05 2014 2:24pm

Someone knows how to connect speed sensor? (for geared motor with freewheel)?

Unfortunately Andrey is not responding frequently.

Recently I noticed that coil and capacitors heating depends on power supply quality. I supose that "charging coil" works as LC filter, so when you connecting few power supplies in series more heat is produced becouse of more disruptions.

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by Ohbse » May 05 2014 7:59pm

Well, rewired the bike to suit the new controller and just rode into work for the first time. First reaction - wow, this thing is silent! Compared to previous Crystalyte controller it is very dramatic difference in sound, especially low speed high load. Second reaction - this thing is not as fast. I'm thinking about it now and I'm not convinced my initial reaction to the performance is correct - I think i'm just used to associating noise with acceleration. In the complete absence of sound it's harder to gauge performance. Currently pulling 4.2kw peak (according to stats after ride) so it's not really a fair comparison yet as the crystalyte was running a little higher than that. With proper phase current limiting the initial hit of acceleration is nowhere near as dramatic as the crystalyte - frankly in my case that's a good thing as it's put me on my ass a couple of times. I would like to get it a little more responsive off the line, plenty of settings to play with!

Economy I can't yet comment on as I have just realised that my speedo calibration is out by 11% so I was going about 10km/h faster than I normally would. Whoops.

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Allex   1 GW

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by Allex » May 06 2014 3:05am

It could take a while to tune the performance in these things:

Angle Corr
Ind Timing
Power Timing
OVS Timing

...Is your best friends. If you can get those right for your motor it will be a blast.
Low performance and Overheated motor = Tune above settings.

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ridethelightning   1 MW

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by ridethelightning » May 06 2014 3:10am

Welcome to the magic carpet ride! :D

things can change a fair bit once the settings are adjusted to your particular motor. motor temps, efficiency, possibly speed?
the ovs timing will change the speed at a given voltage too.
before i adjusted the settings for my cro, i was getting quite warm/hot motor temps . after id done the adjustments , the thing rarely breaks a sweat.
(settings for max-e+cro can be found on maddin88's e moped thread)

i turned my LS start to 'off' to make the startups a little more responsive, but only cause i was too lazy to calibrate it properly.....

i havnt tried turning the smooth start off though, that might make it a lot more like the old controller you spoke of.


it is deceptive though, without the rising whine of the motor on accelleration, it can be difficult to tell how much you are accellerating at first..(without looking at the speedo)
i tend to just listen to the increase of wooshing in my ears :D

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Offroader   10 MW

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by Offroader » May 06 2014 9:51am

How do you think the Max-E controller will work at 18s? I run 6s packs so I can't go to 20s or 22s, and 24s is supposedly too high for this controller.

If I am stuck on 18s will this controller still be worth it? Will it be better than 24s on another controller?

Is this controller worth the cost for a high performance bike? There is nothing that will limit acceleration or anything like that?

Thanks

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by Rix » May 06 2014 10:02am

Don't know what controller you are running, but if its works with 18s, should work with 20s. Most "72" Volt controllers with 4110 Fets can handle up to about 90 volts or so before Fets start popping. But 22s and 24s 92-100 volts would be too much for most "72"volt controllers. That being said, Allex is running his Max E with a stock bomber battery and getting some real impressive performance. Even though the chemistry is different, the Bomber's battery usable voltage range 70-80 volts isn't much more than 18s 66-75 volts so I think Allex's insight can provide you with some reasonable performance expectations on 18s.

RIck

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GCinDC   10 GW

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by GCinDC » May 06 2014 1:22pm

Offroader wrote:How do you think the Max-E controller will work at 18s? I run 6s packs so I can't go to 20s
add 2s packs to get to 20s...

but w/ 6s packs you can't take advantage of BMS w/o insane balance wire harnesses.
Will it be better than 24s on another controller?
of course it will be better, but perhaps you really mean faster? my memory is getting foggy, but i think at 24s and 45A 18fet infineon, my top speed was ~45mph. on 20s w/ miniE, and OVS set to 5 (less efficient supposedly), i can go 50mph...

the specs for refresher:
Image
Is this controller worth the cost for a high performance bike?
not just a controller. includes a pretty advanced display! and if you get the BMS, you'll never need a balance charger again!
There is nothing that will limit acceleration or anything like that?
you can limit whatever you want practically. check out the user guide. set up three modes, and control speed, amps, acceleration via the display..
Youtube channel, 2013 Highlights vid. Ebike Nerdcast.
Giant DH Comp: 20s lipo (11.6Ah), hs3540, Adaptto Mini-E, 900W BMSBattery charger.
GT I-Drive (sold), 20s lipo, 9C, 72V 45A 12FET.

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madin88   100 MW

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by madin88 » May 06 2014 2:15pm

GCinDC wrote: of course it will be better, but perhaps you really mean faster? my memory is getting foggy, but i think at 24s and 45A 18fet infineon, my top speed was ~45mph. on 20s w/ miniE, and OVS set to 5 (less efficient supposedly), i can go 50mph...
do you know if OVS always is on or does it start to work at the point the motor sees full battery voltage?
Or better say will efficiency always be lower with OVS enabled or only at higher speed?

would be good to know how this works exactly
- 10kW belt drive with Neumotor 8057: viewtopic.php?f=30&t=91144&start=50#p1377787
- Fully road legal (L1E approval) e-bike based on Votec V-FR frame
/ MXUS 3T / 17" Mitas MC11 / Adaptto Max-E / 20s12p 25R
- KTM Hardtail Pedelec / eZee V2 6T / 27,5" / Kelly KBSX @ 1,5kW / Torque PAS / CA-V3 / 13s4p Sanyo GA in Shark case

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Allex   1 GW

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by Allex » May 06 2014 3:39pm

You could go with 22s, it will be 92.4V so still within the limits. IRFB4468 FETs are specced for 100V
Andrey can correct me if wrong.

OVS start engaging at around 70% of the max rpm motor is capable of at given voltage and increase gradually from there. So yeah, it enables only at higher speeds.
Last edited by Allex on Jun 11 2014 6:34pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ohbse   10 kW

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by Ohbse » May 06 2014 4:57pm

One major irritating issue is that the thermistor in my HS3540 (which is a KTY81-210 according to Ed Lyen who I purchased it from) doesn't report even vaguely believable numbers despite specifying KTY81 in the configuration :(

I have yet to test the sensor with a multimeter to check function but with it connected to the CA v3 it was reporting accurate temperatures without issue. Is there a way of specifying a thermistor calibration according to volt/temp? Anybody else had issues with this?

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Allex   1 GW

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by Allex » May 06 2014 5:41pm

On cold motor in room temperature, try to set a different sensor in the settings. If it will show correct room temp. - could be the right one.

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by Ohbse » May 06 2014 6:28pm

Have tried all options available. Thermistor is definitely a KTY81 as the linear calibration I used for the CA worked perfectly. Firmware issue possibly?

I'd rather not dig the sensor out to replace it if it's a simple software issue :/

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Offroader   10 MW

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by Offroader » May 06 2014 8:41pm

Could you give me an idea about what it would take to wire 6s packs into the BMS.

Thanks,

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ridethelightning   1 MW

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by ridethelightning » May 06 2014 8:58pm

the bms takes modules of 4s(but i think a mudule can be configd for 2s also)jst xh plugs

im in the same boat as im about to wire my 6s liion packs up to it.

im guessing the balence wires will need to be in lots of 4 with GND for each.....

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GCinDC   10 GW

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by GCinDC » May 06 2014 9:07pm

Offroader wrote:Could you give me an idea about what it would take to wire 6s packs into the BMS.
from andrey - hope he doesn't mind. i saw an even better one somewhere, maybe on the russian forum?
Image

maybe you can do it, but i smell smoke and vaporized balance connectors just looking at that. and the ones that don't fry, which you may think are ok could easily later fail (if you have a short event) - not good.

and can you just serialize the 6s power leads w/o a problem w/ the balance harness. presumably, but call me a chicken!

ps. how do you plan to charge? if the harness is permanent then that maybe ok, but if you were going to disconnect to charge, forget it. at the time, i was planning to disconnect (hence the dbxx connector).. can't remember why.

anyone seen that other diag? good to get 'em here..

EDIT: forgot - i created that diag! but andrey corrected it! :mrgreen:
Youtube channel, 2013 Highlights vid. Ebike Nerdcast.
Giant DH Comp: 20s lipo (11.6Ah), hs3540, Adaptto Mini-E, 900W BMSBattery charger.
GT I-Drive (sold), 20s lipo, 9C, 72V 45A 12FET.

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Offroader   10 MW

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by Offroader » May 06 2014 9:53pm

Thanks for the quick reply,

WOW, that is some battery diagram.

However, it doesn't look that bad after looking at it more closely and here is why. I keep all my 6s packs in three separate parallel banks for 18s. Then I connect all the balance leads together for each of those banks.
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m230 ... 91f54c.jpg

Basically I already have most of the setup done already with extension cables.

I use these cables here to parallel all the balance leads
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... T_XH_.html

I will simply just cut these 4s extension cables in half and solder them to the appropriate wires from the 6s parallel cable above, which I will also cut.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... _bag_.html

This is as simple as just cutting wires in half and soldering them together in the correct order.

It is very doable actually. I wish I understood more how the balance lead voltages worked. I know that if you run a volt meter across different cells you get different voltages that add up to the pack voltage. What I find interesting in this diagram is that a 4s will use balance leads from two separate batteries.

I don't understand your point about charging. I thought that I will be able to charge through the controller and the BMS would balance the cells. Why would I ever need to disconnect any of these wires?
Last edited by Offroader on May 06 2014 10:28pm, edited 2 times in total.

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GCinDC   10 GW

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by GCinDC » May 06 2014 10:24pm

Offroader wrote:I don't understand your point about charging. I thought that I will be able to charge through the controller and the BMS would balance the cells. Why would I ever need to disconnect any of these wires?
yes, plan to bulk charge through the controller you'll be fine. i must have been thinking i'd balance charge separately. can't imagine why now...
Youtube channel, 2013 Highlights vid. Ebike Nerdcast.
Giant DH Comp: 20s lipo (11.6Ah), hs3540, Adaptto Mini-E, 900W BMSBattery charger.
GT I-Drive (sold), 20s lipo, 9C, 72V 45A 12FET.

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Offroader   10 MW

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by Offroader » May 06 2014 10:31pm

GCinDC wrote:
Offroader wrote:I don't understand your point about charging. I thought that I will be able to charge through the controller and the BMS would balance the cells. Why would I ever need to disconnect any of these wires?
yes, plan to bulk charge through the controller you'll be fine. i must have been thinking i'd balance charge separately. can't imagine why now...
GCinDC, I think that it would be easy to balance charge separately. When branching off the parallel 6s packs just have a splitter to keep a set of normal 6s balance wires. This assumes it would be fine to balance charge while the batteries balance leads are connected to the BMS. But I see no reason why this would matter.

BTW. What is a DBxx connector and what is it used for?

Thanks.

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GCinDC   10 GW

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by GCinDC » May 06 2014 10:40pm

What I find interesting in this diagram is that a 4s will use balance leads from two separate batteries.
yeah, if the power leads are in series, and the balance wires are in series, then who cares which cells are shrinkwrapped to each other. they're all in series!
Offroader wrote:GCinDC, I think that it would be easy to balance charge separately. When branching off the parallel 6s packs just have a splitter to keep a set of normal 6s balance wires. This assumes it would be fine to balance charge while the batteries balance leads are connected to the BMS. But I see no reason why this would matter.
lol. easy is relative. even w/ only two plugs, i've managed to screw up the order a couple times, and had to rewire the entire harness. most i know have done it too. but it's a moot point, as you'll see. there's absolutely no reason to ever balance charge off the bike ever again. merely choose the voltage at which you want balance charging to start and set it in the config. i have mine set to start balancing only when the cells reach 4.15V. i don't need the system balancing all the time...
BTW. What is a DBxx connector and what is it used for?
long story. you don't need it. lol.
Youtube channel, 2013 Highlights vid. Ebike Nerdcast.
Giant DH Comp: 20s lipo (11.6Ah), hs3540, Adaptto Mini-E, 900W BMSBattery charger.
GT I-Drive (sold), 20s lipo, 9C, 72V 45A 12FET.

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Offroader   10 MW

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by Offroader » May 06 2014 10:56pm

GCinDC wrote:
What I find interesting in this diagram is that a 4s will use balance leads from two separate batteries.
yeah, if the power leads are in series, and the balance wires are in series, then who cares which cells are shrinkwrapped to each other. they're all in series!
Ahh, I get it now. I forgot that the properties changes once you have the packs connected in a series.

I guess we can check to make sure it is connected properly by running a volt meter between the two connectors. It should read 3.XX volts. If it reads more than that then you don't have the proper two balance lead wires.

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by Ohbse » May 07 2014 8:11pm

With the exception of the thermistor, my mini-e is going very well. BMS and charging functionality is awesome - plug in my 24v 50a source and I'm all filled up in a mere 20 minutes. Have set the charging voltage and balance point shallow and charge at both ends of my ~13km journey so impact on batteries is very light.

Power wise - I turned it up to 60a battery, 150 phase, still with soft start and it really rips. Directly comparable or superior to the previous controller but much more controllable due to proper throttle function. Silence still freaks me out.

Next step is finish building proper battery/controller enclosure (currently the entire bike is held together with Velcro), permanently mount the charging coil onboard, Purchase and configure a thumb throttle as my variable regen and build some better torque arms to make sure I won't have any issues. And fix my squeaky brakes which I can now hear over anything else.

I will need to ventilate or oil cool my HS3540 too. Now pulling almost 5KW peak so motor has potential to get quite toasty.

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ridethelightning   1 MW

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by ridethelightning » May 08 2014 12:38am

i left my charg coil still connected to the controller and phase wire and went for a quick spin up the hill.

i got about 100mt when i lost power.

i looked at display to see CHARGE on the screen.

i unplugged the coil and was away again.


this tells me that you may need a switch on the neg charge lead to the coil, or maybe where its connected to the phase, to be switched off when not charging. :?:

anybody else had any experience with this?


one other thing i noticed-

when the regen max voltage setting is very close to the battery voltage(usually max soc i guesse), there can be a clicking/grinding from motor when using regen. at first i thought something had come loose!

i attribute this to the cuttoff in the controller switching on/off as it reaches the max set regen voltage.

it only happened once to me, and stopped as i used a bit more juice to drop the voltage a bit.

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by QuestionMan » May 08 2014 10:02am

Is the quiet motor operation a good or bad thing? Do any of you still wish the motor was not quiet and you heard noise coming from it while riding?

Will the Max-E work with the temp sensor that is built into the new cromotor v3, I think it is a 10k temp probe?

Can you guys easily read the display on the Max or Mini-E, in direct sunlight?

With the issues some of you are having, regen causing clicking/grinding. Temp probes not working properly. Controller saying "Charge" when the coil is still attached.
Do you recommend to wait to buy the controller until everything is worked out and made sure it can befixed?

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ecruz   1 kW

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by ecruz » May 08 2014 2:41pm

QuestionMan wrote:Is the quiet motor operation a good or bad thing? Do any of you still wish the motor was not quiet and you heard noise coming from it while riding?

Will the Max-E work with the temp sensor that is built into the new cromotor v3, I think it is a 10k temp probe?

Can you guys easily read the display on the Max or Mini-E, in direct sunlight?

With the issues some of you are having, regen causing clicking/grinding. Temp probes not working properly. Controller saying "Charge" when the coil is still attached.
Do you recommend to wait to buy the controller until everything is worked out and made sure it can befixed?

I second the question!!!!! Guys???

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GCinDC   10 GW

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by GCinDC » May 08 2014 3:23pm

QuestionMan wrote:Is the quiet motor operation a good or bad thing?
Good thing! Are you serious? I can't imagine why noisy would be better? If something's wrong with the motor, you'll hear it anyway!
QuestionMan wrote:Will the Max-E work with the temp sensor that is built into the new cromotor v3, I think it is a 10k temp probe?
Doubt it. Great question. Another one of the few disadvantages with the kit right now, but hopefully it could be added w/ a firmware update? :mrgreen: If not, support for more variety of thermistors/temp sensors is definitely nec, IMO.
QuestionMan wrote:Can you guys easily read the display on the Max or Mini-E, in direct sunlight?
Not w/o reading glasses, but I can't read anything w/in 3 feet of my face w/o 'em now. But that's a different issue. As far as the sunlight, you'll always get glare at a certain angle - will w/ most displays that i know of, but otherwise I have no problem seeing black ants on the display... when i dare look down.. :twisted: Nevertheless, another good feature request: Large print option for the vital readings - push a button and see the details...
QuestionMan wrote:With the issues some of you are having, regen causing clicking/grinding. Controller saying "Charge" when the coil is still attached.
Can't speak to this, but he's just tried it out, and I wouldn't be surprised if that's a different issue. Can't say. This is hardly a deal breaker, as bulk charging is a no brainer w/ separate charge port. Onboard charger and outlet plug - that's wishlist for me. I don't even know enough about it to consider it.
QuestionMan wrote:Do you recommend to wait to buy the controller until everything is worked out and made sure it can be fixed?
Jesus, no. This thing has gone through a hell of a lot of testing! At least two years of it that I know of. Probably more... There's room for improvement with everything, always, but it's been rock solid for me...
Youtube channel, 2013 Highlights vid. Ebike Nerdcast.
Giant DH Comp: 20s lipo (11.6Ah), hs3540, Adaptto Mini-E, 900W BMSBattery charger.
GT I-Drive (sold), 20s lipo, 9C, 72V 45A 12FET.

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