Advanced ADAPTTO controllers and compatible products

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QuestionMan   100 W

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by QuestionMan » May 08 2014 3:45pm

The reason I asked about the noise is people above were commenting that they can't hear the motor so they don't think they are going fast, or can't judge the speed easily. I would never think this would ever be a problem until they commented on this.

I take it the display is the same type as on the cycle analyst? I can read that no problem under direct sunlight.

I was thinking about it, why would you want to permanently attach the charging coil to the bike? Is it necessary to do this? I personally wouldn't want to do this anyway unless you had to.

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by Rix » May 08 2014 3:54pm

QuestionMan wrote:The reason I asked about the noise is people above were commenting that they can't hear the motor so they don't think they are going fast, or can't judge the speed easily. I would never think this would ever be a problem until they commented on this.

I take it the display is the same type as on the cycle analyst? I can read that no problem under direct sunlight.

I was thinking about it, why would you want to permanently attach the charging coil to the bike? Is it necessary to do this? I personally wouldn't want to do this anyway unless you had to.
I read that comment also, but above 15MPH, all I hear is wind anyway. :lol:

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ridethelightning   1 MW

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by ridethelightning » May 08 2014 5:39pm

-the 10k thermistor in cro v2/v3 has a firmware upgrade for it.

-the clicking i mentioned was not really a problem, or annoying, just disconcerting as i diddnt know what it was at first.

as to visibilit of display while riding, the amps and speedo, tempgage, power indicator are in large/bold print, and is really all you need to see.

- the coil needing disconnecting while riding isnt really a problem either. ijust thought id mention it :D
it would be super easy to make an inline switch for it, or just unplug it while riding.
it only needs to be permenantly on the bike if you want permenant onboard charging system. otherwise , id just keep it in my bag or leave it on the bench at home :P

all in all. this is an awesome invention made by e-bike riders, for e-bike riders. id still recomend it 100%. it doesnt have an equal out there.

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by Ohbse » May 08 2014 5:56pm

Silence is awesome, it just takes some getting used to. What I've found now having done 75km or so with this setup is I just need to re-calibrate my sense of speed to reality. Previously I did this in part by sound of motor is all. The term 'magic carpet ride' best captures the sense of effortless, silent and smooth thrust this generates.

The display is easily readable in sunlight while wearing my sunglasses. It's directly comparable to or better than CA visibility.

The controller already has support for 4 kinds (from memory) of thermistors. I would be VERY surprised if this didn't cover the one included with the Cromotor V3, however I haven't done the reading to confirm that for certain. I'm sure Andrey could confirm compatibility. I will spend some more time doing some testing/investigation of my thermistor issue this weekend, I do not have time during the week unfortunately.

I would like to mount the coil on the bike because I'm lazy and I charge at both ends of my journey. Currently I carry both Coil and power supplies in my backpack, what I would like to do ideally is have coil pre-mounted/connected and have a power supply available at work and at home. Single plug to connect and no buttons to press results in charging. Is it not possible to leave the coil connected to both the phase 3 and charging input on the controller? I haven't tested this personally. If I have to disconnect/connect one additional plug in addition to power supply I guess I'll live.

I would highly recommend the Adaptto. It's a little like upgrading from a Nokia 3210 to an iPhone 5. You really must buy the BMS to get the full experience, it is a great product and reduces many of the annoying and somewhat risky things I had to do on a daily basis like reconfiguring my battery pack from serial to parallel to charge.

Features that I love, in no particular order:

Precise WH tracking, both consumption and charging and accurate estimate of remaining range based on real world consumption.
Superior voltage tracking via BMS with easy summary of delta V across pack so you can identify a balance issue instantly.
Quick and easy charging to any level with automated balancing using virtually any power supply. In my case 2x 780w IBM server power supplies give me 1.2KW potential. I could very easily add a third and charge at 1500w+ from what I can see. These cost me $10.
High top speed potential without resorting to excessive voltage >90v which compromises safety and reliability. On 20s with an adequate motor you can go as quick as you like utilising OVS timing. On OVS Level 3 (out of 7) my HS3540 spins to >100km/h unloaded and will be limited by aerodynamics >80KM/h.
Precise and controllable throttle without resorting to band-aid fixes like throttle-tamer. Highly adjustable levels of response or smoothing to suit rider and equipment.
Autosleep mode - I ride into work, I hop off bike and take off all my gear and walk away. No switches to touch, no batteries to disconnect due to parasitic drain.

I have effectively replaced/upgraded:

Crystalyte 18 FET 72v 50a Conroller
CA V3
Cellpro Powerlab 8 charger

The result in superior in every way and I actually have confidence it won't randomly blow up. If I had just bought this to begin with it would have been cheaper.

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Willow   10 kW

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by Willow » May 08 2014 11:46pm

...got mine yesterday. Thanks Andrey.

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ridethelightning   1 MW

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by ridethelightning » May 09 2014 3:59am

Ohbse wrote:Silence is awesome, it just takes some getting used to. What I've found now having done 75km or so with this setup is I just need to re-calibrate my sense of speed to reality. Previously I did this in part by sound of motor is all. The term 'magic carpet ride' best captures the sense of effortless, silent and smooth thrust this generates.

The display is easily readable in sunlight while wearing my sunglasses. It's directly comparable to or better than CA visibility.

The controller already has support for 4 kinds (from memory) of thermistors. I would be VERY surprised if this didn't cover the one included with the Cromotor V3, however I haven't done the reading to confirm that for certain. I'm sure Andrey could confirm compatibility. I will spend some more time doing some testing/investigation of my thermistor issue this weekend, I do not have time during the week unfortunately.

I would like to mount the coil on the bike because I'm lazy and I charge at both ends of my journey. Currently I carry both Coil and power supplies in my backpack, what I would like to do ideally is have coil pre-mounted/connected and have a power supply available at work and at home. Single plug to connect and no buttons to press results in charging. Is it not possible to leave the coil connected to both the phase 3 and charging input on the controller? I haven't tested this personally. If I have to disconnect/connect one additional plug in addition to power supply I guess I'll live.

I would highly recommend the Adaptto. It's a little like upgrading from a Nokia 3210 to an iPhone 5. You really must buy the BMS to get the full experience, it is a great product and reduces many of the annoying and somewhat risky things I had to do on a daily basis like reconfiguring my battery pack from serial to parallel to charge.

Features that I love, in no particular order:

Precise WH tracking, both consumption and charging and accurate estimate of remaining range based on real world consumption.
Superior voltage tracking via BMS with easy summary of delta V across pack so you can identify a balance issue instantly.
Quick and easy charging to any level with automated balancing using virtually any power supply. In my case 2x 780w IBM server power supplies give me 1.2KW potential. I could very easily add a third and charge at 1500w+ from what I can see. These cost me $10.
High top speed potential without resorting to excessive voltage >90v which compromises safety and reliability. On 20s with an adequate motor you can go as quick as you like utilising OVS timing. On OVS Level 3 (out of 7) my HS3540 spins to >100km/h unloaded and will be limited by aerodynamics >80KM/h.
Precise and controllable throttle without resorting to band-aid fixes like throttle-tamer. Highly adjustable levels of response or smoothing to suit rider and equipment.
Autosleep mode - I ride into work, I hop off bike and take off all my gear and walk away. No switches to touch, no batteries to disconnect due to parasitic drain.

I have effectively replaced/upgraded:

Crystalyte 18 FET 72v 50a Conroller
CA V3
Cellpro Powerlab 8 charger

The result in superior in every way and I actually have confidence it won't randomly blow up. If I had just bought this to begin with it would have been cheaper.
+1 ohbse

nice to hear others' perspectives on this.

ps. @ silence...i often feel like im gliding on the back of a manta ray or something :D

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GCinDC   10 GW

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by GCinDC » May 09 2014 10:10am

i like your magic carpet analogy...

just a note for folks - when Suspend mode is on, and the system goes to sleep, charging can occur, but it doesn't seem to balance.

i use a timer these days, so every morning at 5AM, the timer flicks on, the charger starts charging, but since the system is alseep, there's no balancing - or at least the balancing led indicators on the bms weren't flickering. as soon as i touch a button on the display however and the system wakes, the balancing leds turn on. not sure if this is the case on the newer models, but fyi.

and just for this reason, i may turn it the Suspend mode off, keeping it on all the time, to be sure it balances at the top of the charge.
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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by QuestionMan » May 09 2014 2:52pm

GCinDC, if there is no balancing, does it know at least when to stop the charge?

Would be nice to hook up the power supply to one of those on/off internet switches so that you can start charging when you want via cell phone. Like if you're out and want to take the bike out when you get home, you can just go onto your cell phone and turn the power supply on, which will start charging the bike.

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by GCinDC » May 09 2014 3:42pm

QuestionMan wrote:GCinDC, if there is no balancing, does it know at least when to stop the charge?
the charger stops when the output voltage reaches 83.4V, but if the cells were wildly out of balance, that could be bad. same deal w/ all bulk charging tho...

for me, there's no problem leaving the system on at night for weeks on end, so i'm happy to leave it on and be reassured the cells will balance during the charge.
Youtube channel, 2013 Highlights vid. Ebike Nerdcast.
Giant DH Comp: 20s lipo (11.6Ah), hs3540, Adaptto Mini-E, 900W BMSBattery charger.
GT I-Drive (sold), 20s lipo, 9C, 72V 45A 12FET.

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ridethelightning   1 MW

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by ridethelightning » May 09 2014 9:41pm

GCinDC wrote:
QuestionMan wrote:GCinDC, if there is no balancing, does it know at least when to stop the charge?
the charger stops when the output voltage reaches 83.4V, but if the cells were wildly out of balance, that could be bad. same deal w/ all bulk charging tho...

for me, there's no problem leaving the system on at night for weeks on end, so i'm happy to leave it on and be reassured the cells will balance during the charge.

just to add-

the charging will stop when it reaches the set target voltage(adjustable in charge settings), and it ramps down as it gets close.

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by GCinDC » May 09 2014 9:48pm

ridethelightning wrote:just to add-the charging will stop when it reaches the set target voltage(adjustable in charge settings), and it ramps down as it gets close.
assuming it's on, right? because i suspect if it's gone to sleep, that setting will no longer apply. no idea, just guessing..

another smart safeguard, to limit the max voltage in case of charger failure. i better check my settings! :mrgreen:
Youtube channel, 2013 Highlights vid. Ebike Nerdcast.
Giant DH Comp: 20s lipo (11.6Ah), hs3540, Adaptto Mini-E, 900W BMSBattery charger.
GT I-Drive (sold), 20s lipo, 9C, 72V 45A 12FET.

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ridethelightning   1 MW

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by ridethelightning » May 09 2014 9:57pm

with my max-e-

the screen stays on all the time during the charge.(so far iv charged for say 20min max)

but i havnt ever played with the suspend/sleepmode settings in the interface setup menu, so maybe thats cause (A)i havnt enabled the sleep mode?

or (b) cause my unit is a later addition?

it does go to sleep by itself normally though,when left for a few minutes when not charging.....

[edit]
'
just checked and the suspend mode is set to 'NO'

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by Allex » May 10 2014 10:04am

I just wired my ignition key to the display cable(thx Andrey). When I turn it off, displays goes OFF and makes the throttle unusable. But you can still charge through the controller and antitheft will work. Simple, fool proof...
Controller itself drains very little, can have it connected for years without draining the battery =)


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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by upek » May 10 2014 7:30pm

Allex - tell us more! We also would like to use this feature!

QuestionMan   100 W

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by QuestionMan » May 10 2014 7:49pm

Alex, you mention you can still charge with the display off, but the question is does it balance charge it also?

Someone needs to test this somehow.

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Allex   1 GW

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by Allex » May 11 2014 3:56am

Four wires are going in that grey display cable. You need to place the switch on the red cable.
Even if display is disconnected, the controller will still chagre(count charge cycles, tell how many minutes is left to full charge, etc) and also balance the cells. The brain is in the controller itself so it only tells to display what to show.

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ridethelightning   1 MW

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by ridethelightning » May 11 2014 4:12am

thats really cool Allex

thanks for the info.

it would be better if the throttle was turned off while parked sometimes, if not for security,then definately for safety.
Last edited by ridethelightning on May 12 2014 12:07am, edited 1 time in total.

Bluefang   10 kW

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by Bluefang » May 11 2014 10:59pm

Is there any timeline for higher voltage controller? Would love to use them on my next bike but the motor i want to use will only really be happy at 30S+ preferably 40S if it can be done? Anyone have a idea of they are even working on higher voltage controllers?

Everything about the controllers pretty much blows other controllers away so i am really keen to be able to use them.
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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by Ohbse » May 12 2014 4:22am

Why would you want such high voltage? Max-e will do 100 km/h or motor with cromotor (maybe briefly with a smaller crystalyte before it melted down). How much faster than that do you want to go?

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by Cowardlyduck » May 12 2014 4:49am

I still haven't seen a picture of this fantastic throttle. Very keen on the controller/display, but also wouldn't mind seeing the throttle that goes with the setup.

Allex, mind posting a pic or video of it in operation. Does it roll forward for regen?

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by Bluefang » May 12 2014 5:08am

I would like to go alot faster in motor RPM then the Cromotor could even come close too. The reasoning behind using higher voltage is the motor i plan to use, a mini-monster only really becomes a monster with higher voltage and it would be geared down at the wheel been a mid drive. Thats aside from the fact i want the bikes i build to be road legal and have a top speed of over 110km/h fully loaded. It just seems like a logical step to me for them to offer a higher voltage controller, at least up to the 150V range or even better if they can do similar to kelly and get it up to the 180V range it would be extremely useful for a few people.

I read some talk about it earlier in the thread but i cannot see if anything is in the works or not.
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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by ridethelightning » May 12 2014 5:33am

hmm. mid drive eh.. well thats starting to make a little more sense :D

i guesse these are going to be real e-moto style then. plan on making a few?

ps. im keen to see this adaptto throttle mentioned earlier too.

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by Bluefang » May 12 2014 8:23am

After reading the thread i have no idea what throttle you guys are talking about, nothing is actually said about a Adaptto throttle. People talked about a diy option many times but nothing unique. Best idea i have seen for regen is to plumb a hydraulic pressure transducer into the hydraulic brake line which will have a 0-5V output for a pressure range of 0-200psi. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/181035825543 ... 1497.l2649 A small length of hose to the transducer with some air bled into it will give some give to the system too.

Yes a e-moto super light weight bike, hopefully around 20kw in a lighter, stronger monocoque type frame. First one will be a pedal only bike, then i am seriously going to be trying to get it ADR approved. Should then pass most world wide standards too then.
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Rix   100 GW

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by Rix » May 12 2014 8:57am

Bluefang wrote:I would like to go alot faster in motor RPM then the Cromotor could even come close too. The reasoning behind using higher voltage is the motor i plan to use, a mini-monster only really becomes a monster with higher voltage and it would be geared down at the wheel been a mid drive. Thats aside from the fact i want the bikes i build to be road legal and have a top speed of over 110km/h fully loaded. It just seems like a logical step to me for them to offer a higher voltage controller, at least up to the 150V range or even better if they can do similar to kelly and get it up to the 180V range it would be extremely useful for a few people.

I read some talk about it earlier in the thread but i cannot see if anything is in the works or not.
Shit the bead Bluefang! :shock: I know a guy running 30s with 350 Phase Amps ( I figure 140 DC Amps?) through his vented cromotor machine. When he whacks the throttle, It does power wheelies at 40KPH. That's in a different realm above what most are doing, your talking about another realm above that. By chance, your 40s set up, will you be able to pedal it?

Rick

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by Bluefang » May 12 2014 10:18am

Anything is possible, only issue is kelly controllers are too big width wise and suck at producing meaningful phase amps with out going insanely pricy or large. So i am really hoping the Adaptto group get the Max-E up to high voltage cause that would be killer :) Up to a point you would be able to pedal it, still a design in process. I will post a thread about it in a few weeks hopefully.
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