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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Postby Swede » Mon Mar 31, 2014 3:20 pm

madin88 wrote:Why you guys do not make a call? They speak english well :)
keep in mind andreym unfortunately lost his flat in a fire short time ago. I think he is busy.

Merlin wrote:PLEASE !!! PLEASE !!! give us a PAS Mode.......


i also would like to see a integrated PAS mode in future. for now we can use a external PAS electronic and connect it between throttle and display.
dont think so complex :P


so you mean a Pas sensor V5 for exampel and connect it between throttle and dispaly and that will work?
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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Postby Ohbse » Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:12 pm

Ability to connect virtually any source DC as a battery charger. Controller can charge the battery from a DC source voltage higher than 12V and less than the battery voltage. The option is available when using the charger throttle (sold separately).


From the english translated version of the specs. Are there any limitations to charging current? I have two IBM server power supplies wired in series for 24v that I have pulled more than 60amps from successfully.
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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Postby Scott » Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:02 pm

If 150 volt rated parts and FET’s were put into the E-Maxx I would definitely buy this controller.
For me it’s not only about power, but speed that higher voltage brings. I know that this controller allows for higher speed than normal ones but 80v even with this controller is not fast enough for me.

The selling part of this controller for me is the BMS integration and being able to see each cell on a screen. Also the ability to charge through it is amazing! I would just really like to see a 150 volt verson.
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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Postby Allex » Tue Apr 01, 2014 2:16 am

Ohbse: you can at least charge with 70A. But at yours 24V, the controller might get hot. It is better to have higher voltgage .
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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Postby Cowardlyduck » Tue Apr 01, 2014 4:52 am

I think I will be keen to get one of these for my Fighter soon. Just got a few questions I haven't seen answers for yet.

What mounting options are there for the controller and display? What mounts does it come with?

What options are there for activating regen? Can you use a momentary button still like an Infineon based controller? What other option is there?

What are the plugs/connectors used? Would I be better of cutting them off and soldering on my own, or are the supplied connectors good quality, water resistant etc? Where would I get these connectors for the other end?
What length are the wires?

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Postby Adaptto E-Drives Lab » Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:44 am

upek wrote:Andrey,
can you give me some information about my order?

I have replied you via PM.
For sales enquiries please contact us via: sales@adaptto.com
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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Postby Adaptto E-Drives Lab » Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:15 am

zombiess wrote:2 emails to them and zero response. Guess I'll be evaluating Kelly and Sabvoton they answer emails.

Hi Jeremy,

I have sent you 2 emails to you address jwolf@dodecahedronsolutions.com and it looks like you have not received them.
Could you please provide me with any alternative e-mail address for contact or send me a message to andy@adaptto.ru
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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Postby Adaptto E-Drives Lab » Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:21 am

Ohbse wrote:From the english translated version of the specs. Are there any limitations to charging current? I have two IBM server power supplies wired in series for 24v that I have pulled more than 60amps from successfully.

There are limitations to PSU current you can use with charging coils. Smaller one are rated at 30amps PSU current and large one = 70amps.
PSU voltage does not affect this limitaion,so for maximum charging power it is recommended to use the PSU with voltage closer to minimal doscharged battery voltage.
ex. you use 20s lipo - it is 84v hot of the charger and ~60v minimal voltage if it is perfectly balanced and you discharged it to 3v per cell, So the PSU should be 50-60 volts for maximum efficiency.

You still can use your 24volts psu but limit input current(not battery current) to the maximum allowed for the chosen charging coil.
And obviously Mini-E controller will become pretty hot when charging with 70a psu current, and will probably limit charging current to prevent overheating itself. So optimal configuration for mini-e would be 30a charging coil and 50v 30a psu, Givin you 1.5kw if charging power and not overheating your equipment.
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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Postby Adaptto E-Drives Lab » Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:24 am

Scott wrote:If 150 volt rated parts and FET’s were put into the E-Maxx I would definitely buy this controller.

We are planning to make small batch of 100+ v rated controllers, however I cannot tell you exact time when they will be available.
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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Postby Adaptto E-Drives Lab » Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:37 am

zombiess wrote:92V max, that is NOT A SAFE VOLTAGE for an IRFP4468. You max safe voltage is going to be around 80V fully charged and even that only gives you a 20% safety margin which would be the bare minimum for a commercial product IMO. If you switch to an IRFP4568 and 150V capacitors you end up with a much better controller.

you forgot about the voltage sag, when you use 92v hot of the charger battery, after you apply 100+amps of load in most e-bike configurations, you will barely get 85+ volts,
fets are working fine in this cases, no problems so far.
We know most commercial controllers are limited to much lower voltage (usually 75% of maximum fets rating) but unfortunately most people in e-bike world does not want to use this products...
So we made a compromise - set a safe voltage limits according to our tests and allowed each person to decide if he\she wants to use unlocked firmware at his\her own risk of use the default one and get the warranty.

As we told before, we are planning to produce small batch of 100v+ rated controllers in future, and I will inform you once they available.
Do you have details on how the BMS is working? You using the LTC6803 chips?

No LTC chips were used. We are using MSP ultra low power micro-controller for BMS boards.

Could you post some detailed photos of the internals. I'm interested in seeing the driver layout and power stage designs. You can PM or email me if you don't want to make them public.
Regards and the best of luck with sales,
Jeremy
P.S. I emailed you about pricing last night. jwolf@dodecahedronsolutions.com

I have sent you 2 emails to the address you provided, but got no reply. Please contact me at andy@adaptto.ru
For sales enquiries please contact us via: sales@adaptto.com
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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Postby ALLVLTS » Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:46 am

Adaptto E-Drives Lab wrote:
Scott wrote:If 150 volt rated parts and FET’s were put into the E-Maxx I would definitely buy this controller.

We are planning to make small batch of 100+ v rated controllers, however I cannot tell you exact time when they will be available.

Count me in for a 150V rated controller.
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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Postby Allex » Tue Apr 01, 2014 9:01 am

Cowardlyduck wrote:I think I will be keen to get one of these for my Fighter soon. Just got a few questions I haven't seen answers for yet.

What mounting options are there for the controller and display? What mounts does it come with?

What options are there for activating regen? Can you use a momentary button still like an Infineon based controller? What other option is there?

What are the plugs/connectors used? Would I be better of cutting them off and soldering on my own, or are the supplied connectors good quality, water resistant etc? Where would I get these connectors for the other end?
What length are the wires?

Cheers


They come with one mounting option, see pic:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=36375&start=2400#p872803
You migh have to change to a longer screws you you use a tapered handlebar, like me.
You can use a regular on/off button for regen. Or use a hall sensor for variable regen. In the menu you have lots of values for regen operarion(ex. smooth regen that applyies softly on a button push).
The connectors are good. Big XT150 for phases and charge. And waterproof connectors for the dispay, BMS and halls.
You get a complete package with alla connectors(for other end) needed to install it on your old bike.
The lenght is minimal from the controller itself so you probably have to extend them or extend your motor/pshase cables.
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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Postby Merlin » Tue Apr 01, 2014 9:59 am

iam in too for a max-E with 125v.
But i like also a 150v version for using 35S Lipos (147v HOC) :mrgreen:

AND DONT FORGET A PAS :P
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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Postby Merlin » Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:00 am

madin88 wrote:i also would like to see a integrated PAS mode in future. for now we can use a external PAS electronic and connect it between throttle and display.
dont think so complex :P


How does it work?
does it work with a ThunBB also?
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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Postby dnmun » Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:33 am

why are you guys so anal about the PAS and demanding 150V? if greg can make 20S go 50mph, why would you think you need 150V as though it were just another trapezoidal pwm controller?

what is wrong with using a throttle like everybody else?

seems like you guys are using andreym for a pissing contest imo.
Last edited by dnmun on Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Postby Adaptto E-Drives Lab » Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:48 am

Merlin wrote:But i like also a 150v version for using 35S Lipos (147v HOC) :mrgreen:
AND DONT FORGET A PAS :P



Pas on a 150v controller? Have you thought about your cadence?

Last edited by Adaptto E-Drives Lab on Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:50 am, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Postby zombiess » Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:08 pm

dnmun wrote:why are you guys so anal about the PAS and demanding 150V? if greg can make 20S go 50mph, why would you think you need 150V as though it were just another trapezoidal pwm controller?

what is wrong with using a throttle like everybody else?

seems like you guys are using andreym for a pissing contest imo.


I am not bringing it up as a pissing contest but as a legitimate design issue for user's who run 100v setups which is easily resolved by changing parts to appropriately rated ones so there is safety margin.

Saying a controller is OK at 92v because of voltage sag is very poor spec writing I have a 100v pack with good batteries that only sags 3v at 175a discharge and I know I am not alone. I don't know why they are so reluctant to change parts when it should be easily within their ability, the cost difference is virtually nothing and the amperage handling will stay the same. With 100v rated MOSFETs this is safe at 80v max which is good for the majority. I have a motor I run at 75v I would like to try it on, bit I prefer the flexibility of going to higher voltage.

I don't think anyone who has put a scope on the drain to source and watched the switching and overshoots which can be quite high would agree that it is OK to push the limits like this.
Last edited by zombiess on Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:11 pm, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Postby Merlin » Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:25 pm

dnmun wrote:why are you guys so anal about the PAS and demanding 150V? if greg can make 20S go 50mph, why would you think you need 150V as though it were just another trapezoidal pwm controller?

what is wrong with using a throttle like everybody else?

seems like you guys are using andreym for a pissing contest imo.



i make it easy for you...
the world doesnt end behind portland.

for a streetlegal mode you need in some countries a PAS.
(Countries is like your town....just a bit bigger...there live other people.....they dont care
that you pay in dollar or sing "...the land of the free and the home of the brave!"
they had his own laws....)

and it doesnt matter that you drive a 15KW monster or a 500w bmx bike.
when it is electric, you have to pedal that the motor spins.

a throttle is allowed to 6kph.

did i have to explain what happen when police just stops you because your bike is so nice?
dont think so.....

i dont want to PISS him. i want just THAT SIMPLE FEATURE in this awesome controller package.
thats all.

i want to have an option for real speed. when it is ok for portland to drive 50mph, hey everyone has it needs....
maybe you dont want to go faster or your balls cant get it....no matter. it is your own decision ...

i bet a pair of bigger balls for you that it takes only 24h after offering "the small batch of 100v+ MAX-E's"
and it is sold out.
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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Postby cal3thousand » Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:30 pm

There's a reason that this is on this forum and not on it's own website. It's for discussion and requests and sharing input.

If Andreym doesn't want to include PAS, we should know about it, so those needing it can shop elsewhere. He also sees the demand for 100+volts and is working to please us.

It's only a pissing contest if those members that are asking aren't really in the ballpark for those features. Zombiess is certainly in the ballpark to ask for 100V+, see his builds.

I ALREADY have equipment for 24S and would like it to transfer easily. That will make the transition MUCH easier to do
Last edited by cal3thousand on Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
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Planning on posting questions or buying anything on this site? Put up your country (at minimum) on your profile. This is a worldwide forum and we haven't reached clairvoyance.
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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Postby Merlin » Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:33 pm

Adaptto E-Drives Lab wrote:Pas on a 150v controller? Have you thought about your cadence?



i feel really missunderstand....
i dont want ONLY a PAS.....i need a PAS for the legal commute.

mode 1: legal
1000w, 25kph, no throttle works, just the pas

mode 2: daily commute
3500w, no speed limit, pas and throttle works
to bring the same feature like CAv3....the PAS runs with 750w only and pushing the throttle overrides to 3,5KW

mode 3: offroad
10kw, no speed limit, pas is off, throttle works
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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Postby madin88 » Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:53 pm

Merlin wrote:How does it work?
does it work with a ThunBB also?


PAS only controls the throttle signal to the controller. Or what did you think?

Merlin wrote:i feel really missunderstand....
i dont want ONLY a PAS.....i need a PAS for the legal commute.

mode 1: legal
1000w, 25kph, no throttle works, just the pas

mode 2: daily commute
3500w, no speed limit, pas and throttle works
to bring the same feature like CAv3....the PAS runs with 750w only and pushing the throttle overrides to 3,5KW

mode 3: offroad
10kw, no speed limit, pas is off, throttle works


you have watched the GreyP ebike movie?
IT WILL NEVER BE LEGALl! No matter what preset you have set it to.
You need a license, number plate and insurance for such a heavy, high powered bike and it requires to wear a helmet (no, not a bicycle helmet).
- Votec V-FR frame / MXUS 3T / 17" Mitas MC11 / Adaptto Max-E / 20s12p 25R -> approved as L1e moped and fully road legal in EU :)
- Vector white / MXUS 4T / 24" Hookworms / Adaptto Max-E / 22s11p 25R
- KTM Hardtail Pedelec / eZee V2 6T / 27,5" / Kelly KBSX @ 1,5kW / Torque PAS / CA-V3 / 13s4p Sanyo GA in Shark case
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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Postby madin88 » Tue Apr 01, 2014 2:05 pm

zombiess wrote:Saying a controller is OK at 92v because of voltage sag is very poor spec writing I have a 100v pack with good batteries that only sags 3v at 175a discharge and I know I am not alone. I don't know why they are so reluctant to change parts when it should be easily within their ability, the cost difference is virtually nothing and the amperage handling will stay the same. With 100v rated MOSFETs this is safe at 80v max which is good for the majority.


im not very good in electrical engineering, but isn't there already a safeness in these electrical components? I mean if the FETs and CAP's are rated for 100V and the safeness is about 10% (only a guess) than they will survive 110V without damage. Or i am wrong?
The bad thing is not battery voltage alone, but more the high voltage spikes which occur at very high phase amps. because of this Adaptto limits the current (in normal firmware) if voltage is over 92V. Ifsome want to push the controller to the max with the unlocked firmware, they suggest to add some LOW ESR caps as near as possible to the controller case to smoothen low and high frequency voltage ripple.
Last edited by madin88 on Tue Apr 01, 2014 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
- Votec V-FR frame / MXUS 3T / 17" Mitas MC11 / Adaptto Max-E / 20s12p 25R -> approved as L1e moped and fully road legal in EU :)
- Vector white / MXUS 4T / 24" Hookworms / Adaptto Max-E / 22s11p 25R
- KTM Hardtail Pedelec / eZee V2 6T / 27,5" / Kelly KBSX @ 1,5kW / Torque PAS / CA-V3 / 13s4p Sanyo GA in Shark case
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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Postby Ariane » Tue Apr 01, 2014 2:42 pm

Guys,

AndreyM, try to sale a great product at great price to build a fastest ebike at 20s. No infineon controller sales by Zombiess are Sine wave controller … same for Kelly.

So I don’t know what Zombiess Is trying to do here… exactly. For the people asking about pass buy an infineon controller (12 Mosfets or 9 fets) installed with the pass system of your choice with a Mac motor and don’t be afraid if the police arrest you.

Now get back to AndrewM sales post, there’s s allot of products here for an ebike in the 1000 to 3500 Watts range.

BlackArrow
Last edited by Ariane on Tue Apr 01, 2014 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Postby Merlin » Tue Apr 01, 2014 3:19 pm

madin88 wrote:PAS only controls the throttle signal to the controller. Or what did you think?



you have watched the GreyP ebike movie?
IT WILL NEVER BE LEGALl! No matter what preset you have set it to.
You need a license, number plate and insurance for such a heavy, high powered bike and it requires to wear a helmet (no, not a bicycle helmet).



so, please show me the easy external PAS solution for any controller.
i dont know any solution for it.

whats about the greyp movie?
i dont have a greyp bike.

it is NOT illegal to drive a DIY ebike that fits the law.
limited to 25kph, PAS and throttle just to 6kph and a maximum CONTINUE Motor power about 250w.
(what continue power means i dont have to explain for you)
no retail pedelec on market has only 250 MAXIMUM Motor Power.

it IS Illegal to drive THAT bike that can "convert" by a click or a hidden switch to something that has more Power or no Speedlimit.
when not, no matter if you drive a 11Kg Cro Hub or a 2Kg geared.
bionx? deactivate internal controller and push 3KW to it......oh...a sticker on the hub said only 250w.....totally legal huh?

i dont care if there comes a 150v version.
I like the 98v version allready. i had no Problem driving only 20s. I Just want to drive 65mph minimum. Shame on me....
Give me a Hub that runs with 60v 100kph....will buy it. i would be happy with 60v....i had alot more charging options.
The big difference between Kelly or Infineon is just the sinewave and some extra features (yes theyre cool)

alot of others on the market..right...but no sinewave....

communication is poor. thats why (maybe) alot people ask in this or other topics...because they had questions and get no answer...

no time? cmon....take a look at lyen.....
hes a one man show and had allready selled near thousand controllers. had a normal job and if you ask, you get answeres....

but it is ok....just buying and no questions please....
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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Postby madin88 » Tue Apr 01, 2014 3:53 pm

Merlin wrote:it IS Illegal to drive THAT bike that can "convert" by a click or a hidden switch to something that has more Power or no Speedlimit.
when not, no matter if you drive a 11Kg Cro Hub or a 2Kg geared.
bionx? deactivate internal controller and push 3KW to it......oh...a sticker on the hub said only 250w.....totally legal huh?

do what you want. the cops will tell you cool guy what is illegal and what not :wink:
i would say a ebike set to 250W and 25kmh with the OPTION to unlimited speed / 10kW power is illegal in germany.

communication is poor. thats why (maybe) alot people ask in this or other topics...because they had questions and get no answer...

no time? cmon....take a look at lyen.....
hes a one man show and had allready selled near thousand controllers. had a normal job and if you ask, you get answeres....

but it is ok....just buying and no questions please...


these guys from Adaptto E-Drives Lab mainly act in the very big board in russia. you better should be thankful they ship it to us in the whole world :wink:
- Votec V-FR frame / MXUS 3T / 17" Mitas MC11 / Adaptto Max-E / 20s12p 25R -> approved as L1e moped and fully road legal in EU :)
- Vector white / MXUS 4T / 24" Hookworms / Adaptto Max-E / 22s11p 25R
- KTM Hardtail Pedelec / eZee V2 6T / 27,5" / Kelly KBSX @ 1,5kW / Torque PAS / CA-V3 / 13s4p Sanyo GA in Shark case
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